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Guess Atlus USA's next game reveal

Some of these games were so bad

I feel like this is kind of a key point here. During this period, Atlus were also localizing plenty of garbage (poor quality and/or not actually desired by basically anyone) non-strategy RPGs -- Master of the Monster Lair, Rondo of Swords, Baroque, Izuna (1 and 2!), Jewel Summoner, etc., and those have fallen off in precisely the same way. I think this is much more indicative of a reduction in localizations and a significantly higher bar in general than anything to do with SRPGs.

I think Knights in the Nightmare is too different from SRPGs to state that it's a vote of confidence for the SRPG genre.

I honestly don't see any way to square this with the idea that you have a good enough picture to opine meaningfully on Atlus' release schedule. There is no conceivable scenario in which Atlus' leadership made a decision to move away from SRPGs because of their market performance where a game like KitN would not fall into the same category.
 
I feel like this is kind of a key point here. During this period, Atlus were also localizing plenty of garbage (poor quality and/or not actually desired by basically anyone) non-strategy RPGs -- Master of the Monster Lair, Rondo of Swords, Baroque, Izuna (1 and 2!), Jewel Summoner, etc., and those have fallen off in precisely the same way. I think this is much more indicative of a reduction in localizations and a significantly higher bar in general than anything to do with SRPGs.

Uhh Rondo of Swords is a SRPG, the only difference from traditional SRPGs being that you can pass through allies and enemies when moving (which also doubles as attacking). It seems you're confused as to what defines a traditional SRPG if you're claiming Rondo of Swords isn't one, which is ironic considering the discussion is about SRPGs. Calling Rondo of Swords garbage is unfair and tasteless considering it pulled off its little gimmick successfully and had some decent content and depth to go with it.

On the other hand, Knights in the Nightmare is a real time strategy game that takes place on a grid mixed with bullet dodging and occasional pauses of the action - almost nothing like a traditional SRPG. It's generous to even call it a hybrid SRPG, given that it takes place in real time, has plenty of decidedly non-SRPG like mechanics, and is heavily touch and action based. It's a unique strategy game that doesn't fit neatly into any one category, but it's about as far a strategy game from the sorts of traditional SRPGs that Atlus was formerly publishing as one can get. It is pretty impressive though how you continue to deny common business sense that logically explains Atlus' publishing decisions.

Atlus has published plenty of shovelware in 2009-2011, just a different kind of shovelware more aimed at casual gamers, so they've "dropped off" little or none in that regard. Of those 13 games I mentioned between 2006-2008, only Spectral Force 3 and Zoids Assault were awful games that should never have been touched. The rest ranged from decent to great, and are mostly worth playing. Your point about "garbage games" rings hollow when most of the SRPGs were pretty good in the first place, even if they sold poorly, and I have to wonder how many of those 13 you've played considering the broad strokes you're making about them.
 
On the other hand, Knights in the Nightmare is a real time strategy game

I know what KitN is, I played it and talked it up everywhere on GAF. My point is that it's a strategy game, not an RPG, from a marketing standpoint, and makes no sense as a game to release twice-over if Atlus had some kind of "no SRPGs" policy. The only people who are going to delve into this kind of detail to distinguish it from the turn-based SRPGs are extremely dedicated strategy fans.

I have to wonder how many of those 13 you've played considering the broad strokes you're making about them.

I clarified what I meant. A few of the games were obviously garbage from a quality standpoint (I suspect you're letting Spectral Force 3 off a bit lightly here, from what else I've heard about it) but most were just "garbage" from a market perspective -- middling, generic games that had no real fanbase in Japan, no import buzz, and no interest amongst even the dedicated fanbase over here. Some of these games might have had value for people who delved into them, but without any particular unique qualities to recommend them or buzz from people who'd played the Japanese versions the number of such people was vanishingly small.

My overall point here, really, is that there's a big gap between something like Gungnir and most of those SRPGs just by virtue of name recognition and buzz. People begging on the Atlus forums for a specific game is no guarantee it'll sell well, but the fact that Gungnir is something people know about in order to beg for gives it the potential for decent (i.e. mid-five-digits) sales that a lot of Atlus' more lamentable releases didn't have.

(Mea culpa on Rondo of Swords, I was clearly getting it confused with something else.)
 

LegatoB

Member
I don't know if that person is actually a fully-fledged Atlus employee or some sort of CM volunteer, but that sort of fuck-you post to your so-called "faithful" fans is a really bad idea if you want them to remain as such.
In general, Atlus's community reps on their forums have an extreme lack of tact, even when what they're saying is something sensible. (And when it's not, like the KOF controller issue thread.)

Yet another good reason not to get caught up in the "company love" stuff that's so popular in the JRPG niche.
 
I know what KitN is, I played it and talked it up everywhere on GAF. My point is that it's a strategy game, not an RPG, from a marketing standpoint, and makes no sense as a game to release twice-over if Atlus had some kind of "no SRPGs" policy. The only people who are going to delve into this kind of detail to distinguish it from the turn-based SRPGs are extremely dedicated strategy fans.

I clarified what I meant. A few of the games were obviously garbage from a quality standpoint (I suspect you're letting Spectral Force 3 off a bit lightly here, from what else I've heard about it) but most were just "garbage" from a market perspective -- middling, generic games that had no real fanbase in Japan, no import buzz, and no interest amongst even the dedicated fanbase over here. Some of these games might have had value for people who delved into them, but without any particular unique qualities to recommend them or buzz from people who'd played the Japanese versions the number of such people was vanishingly small.
That doesn't explain why they've still been localizing niche, no brand recognition Japanese games, including traditional RPGs and dungeon crawlers in the past 3 years, while giving similarly niche SRPGs the short end of the stick. Probably related to the unpopularity of the SRPG genre, even in comparison to traditional JRPGs and such. If it doesn't have Final or Ogre in the title it's not going to have much sales traction.

I did just say that Spectral Force 3 and Zoids Assault were the only two awful games of the bunch. It's true that most of them were new IPs, but even the known games like Super Robot Taisen sold poorly as far as I could tell. They didn't have a lot of hype or behind them but neither do the niche Japanese games they've brought over in the last 3 years, either.

My overall point here, really, is that there's a big gap between something like Gungnir and most of those SRPGs just by virtue of name recognition and buzz. People begging on the Atlus forums for a specific game is no guarantee it'll sell well, but the fact that Gungnir is something people know about in order to beg for gives it the potential for decent (i.e. mid-five-digits) sales that a lot of Atlus' more lamentable releases didn't have.
I don't agree that the "hype" is any greater than most of the 2006-2008 SRPGs. It's a new IP, Sting is a relatively unknown name/developer, the game itself suffers from the same lack of "particular unique qualities" that you're criticizing the older ones of, and the PSP can kindly be regarded as "in retirement". If they wanted a more "sure seller" from Sting they'd have brought over more of the Union series. Like I've been saying, the only way I can see Atlus rationalizing it is if they saw Tactics Ogre's sales and thought they had a chance at selling a similar kind of generic fantasy SRPG to the same audience, which I think will leave Atlus disappointed as Tactics Ogre's fanatical fanbase isn't so easily swayed by SRPGs that don't have Final or Ogre in their title.
 
That doesn't explain why they've still been localizing niche, no brand recognition Japanese games

Err... they haven't, really. Atlus has put out literally zero titles matching this description in 2011. In 2010 their sum total of such efforts came down to Hexyz Force (another Sting title) and Shiren the Wanderer back in February. You pretty much have to go back to mid-2009 (when they were putting out stuff like Steambot Chronicles, Steal Princess, Class of Heroes, etc.) to find the last point Atlus was bringing out any meaningful quantity of niche Japanese titles.

I did just say that Spectral Force 3 and Zoids Assault were the only two awful games of the bunch.

Gah, I got SF3 and Operation Darkness mixed up here. I think both safely qualify as "garbage."

I don't agree that the "hype" is any greater than most of the 2006-2008 SRPGs.

Well, I mean, hype is a completely relative word, but c'mon. You don't think Gungnir has more pre-existing fan interest than Luminous Arc 2? Crapware from Success and Idea Factory? Rondo of Swords? I think the fact that Gungnir is getting enough requests on the Atlus forum to annoy people while people pretty much had to look up what some of these other titles even were when they got announced for the US speaks volumes here.

Sting is a relatively unknown name/developer

Not amongst the crowd that makes (made?) up Atlus' target market for niche localizations.
 

Yuterald

Member
The RPG market is so divided in terms of what it wants versus what it wants to pay for. People want SRT. People want Brandish. People want Gungnir. But nobody wants to pay for all 3 of them, and too few want to pay for 1 of those 3 if it isn't the 1 from those 3 choices they wanted. That's how it is. The RPG market left us. We didn't leave the market, seeing as how we're STILL HERE.

Hey, I'd buy all 3 of those games, especially Brandish!

Anyway, I had no idea Atlus felt like this. It's also a shame that they have resorted to acting like Capcom community mods. It's just sad times for everyone and everything, I suppose.
 

mollipen

Member
I feel like this is kind of a key point here. During this period, Atlus were also localizing plenty of garbage (poor quality and/or not actually desired by basically anyone) non-strategy RPGs -- Master of the Monster Lair, Rondo of Swords, Baroque, Izuna (1 and 2!), Jewel Summoner, etc., and those have fallen off in precisely the same way. I think this is much more indicative of a reduction in localizations and a significantly higher bar in general than anything to do with SRPGs.

I feel like you just called Rondo of Swords and Izuna garbage... and that hurts. It hurts a lot.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
So when do we get the next hint?

After seeing what kind of people run their forums I have to say my hopes have been drastically lowered. I would really laugh if it's neither Growlanser or Gungnir. I mean if the tools that run their forums/community are also responsible for the teaser then they might have no idea that Growlanser is actually an Index Holdings/Atlus IP haha.
 

icecream

Public Health Threat
It's a new IP, Sting is a relatively unknown name/developer, the game itself suffers from the same lack of "particular unique qualities" that you're criticizing the older ones of, and the PSP can kindly be regarded as "in retirement".
Again, no. Sting is not a relatively unknown developer, they've made well recognized games among the JRPG, Japanese gaming crowd that Atlus has been consistantly releasing for years now. They are hardly some "unknown developer."

And again, as for the PSP format, there are still other venues of accessibilty for Gungnir. Just because the PSP console itself is dead in the US doesn't mean games released for it have to be.

If they wanted a more "sure seller" from Sting they'd have brought over more of the Union series.
Why would you say that? From what I've heard Yggdra Union was Atlus USA's worst selling Dept. Heaven game. Why would they waste more money pursuing an audience for franchises/spin-offs of a game that didn't even do well in the first place? If anything they would have a better chance with Gungnir because it is a mainline game and has the qualities of the other Episodes that people expect from Sting.
 

redlemon

Member
Because only based XSEED could (try to) bring us both.

Modern day Atlus USA is essentially worthless and has douchebags working for them from what i can see.

Oh for Christ's sake lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Poorly worded response do not mean an entire company is staffed by assholes.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Because only based XSEED could (try to) bring us both.

Modern day Atlus USA is essentially worthless and has douchebags working for them from what i can see.

They've still brought me Radiant Historia ;) I don't think they are worthless but I'm certainly not happy with the lineup they offered me this year. Their hands are more or less tied anyway. The guy on their forum was mean and harsh but he does have a point. They can't publish anything they want anymore in the current market. They also probably got burned a lot when they were releasing many crap DS/360 games (and they probably got burned publishing the Cursed Crusade).

Xseed is facing the same thing with the Falcom games. Some of them are in limbo because the sales of previous titles didn't meet expectations.

My only gripe with them is that they can still release stuff like the Cursed Crusade but not give me what I want :(

At least next year we get Devil Survivor 2 and Persona 4 Vita.
 
New clue: SRPG.

Next clue: NeoGAF lol

Agp-KIhCAAAcGcj.jpg


damn you Fersis :mad:
 

Boogiepop

Member
Err... they haven't, really. Atlus has put out literally zero titles matching this description in 2011. In 2010 their sum total of such efforts came down to Hexyz Force (another Sting title) and Shiren the Wanderer back in February. You pretty much have to go back to mid-2009 (when they were putting out stuff like Steambot Chronicles, Steal Princess, Class of Heroes, etc.) to find the last point Atlus was bringing out any meaningful quantity of niche Japanese titles.



Gah, I got SF3 and Operation Darkness mixed up here. I think both safely qualify as "garbage."



Well, I mean, hype is a completely relative word, but c'mon. You don't think Gungnir has more pre-existing fan interest than Luminous Arc 2? Crapware from Success and Idea Factory? Rondo of Swords? I think the fact that Gungnir is getting enough requests on the Atlus forum to annoy people while people pretty much had to look up what some of these other titles even were when they got announced for the US speaks volumes here.



Not amongst the crowd that makes (made?) up Atlus' target market for niche localizations.
:( How hard did this bomb anyway? I loved the game (even took part in their tournament on their forums) and was really looking forward to 3, but assumed it (and Super Robot Taisen OG Saga Endless Frontier Exceed) were not brought over due to the impending 3DS, not sales. So depressing.
 

Grimmy

Banned
so three more clues until they finally announce it?
:/

At this point it might be more fun to guess the next 3 clues:

Clue 4: It's on the PSP!
Clue 5: The game was published by Atlus in Japan!
Clue 6: The game was released in 2011 in Japan!

See? That really narrows it down!
 

B.K.

Member
I like how all the clues fit both games. This is either going to be Atlus's best reveal of the year or a pretty good troll.
 
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