Support NeoGAF

[-Amon-]

Starting with the PSP and the PS3, they've tried to make premium products that are priced accordingly. While a good idea on paper, I don't believe it's in the best interest of gamers or the industry. When adoption rates are low, developers see decreased incentives to innovate or even cater specifically to the strengths of that platform. Sony's first party output this gen has been pretty solid, but the age of 3rd party exclusives are now gone. All the higher price point does is create a barrier for gamers. I say this as someone who can afford to buy whatever console they want. The vita is a prime example of poorly conceived hardware. Sony has their eyes set on dominating the handheld market, but instead of putting together a portable with a concise and clear purpose (that's also affordable), they threw in everything they could think of and set it at a premium price.

With the PS1 and PS2, sony made shit hardware. The PS2 may be the greatest console platform of all time (only real competition is DS imo), but the hardware manufacturing was shit. So shit, in fact, that Sony had to settle a class action lawsuit against them. The PS1 also had mediocre reliability, but admittedly to a lesser degree than the PS2.

edit: I should say that their high price point strategy wouldn't be so bad if they could drum up the demand for those products, but they can't. A $250 dedicated handheld and a $600 console might be successful with the brand and marketing power of a company like Apple but not Sony. Also, I hate apple, but that's a whole other can of worms

I think the price point is at 250 because the vita is really ahead of the old generation of portables. Nintendo with the 3ds did not make a jump so big.The result is a cheaper product of course, but at least in my opinion with less value.

And looking at the vita from an hardware point of view 250 dollars plus memory cards looks cheap when compared not at apple products ( that's too easy ) but at things like tegra2 phones and tablets... expecially tablets considering what's inside of them are overpriced as hell.

But i see noone crying about that.

Speaking of shitty hardware, i agree of course on the ps2.

 

[BoilersFan23]

After the 3DS, I'll wait a little to buy the Vita just in case they need to make a drastic move and drop the price because I still feel stupid over the 3DS, lol.

I still see Sony as being different than Nintendo. The 3DS was the first time Nintendo ever priced out of the mass market range. Sony always does it and usually expects slower sales. Sony is less likely to want to lose more money than Nintendo right now (sort of like why would BMW drop the prices of their cars just to match a Kia in price).

Well, I still look at it two ways. PS Vita will be dropping price throughout of its lifetime to expand its market. The initial pricetag is not mass market and will likely sell less (pretty much anyone should have known that). Currently Vita does not have any big sellers for the Japanese market (their biggest is Minna No Golf which doesn't sell anywhere near what it use to, especially on handhelds). The games will come over time. The majority of developers only had Vita development kits for less than a year (outside of a few with early prototype kits working on a few games, mostly with a few first party developers), compared to developers being able to work with 3DS for over 2 years. It's like when PS3 came out, some JRPGs went to 360 strictly because there were no PS3 development kits at the start of development. Over a period of time PS3 started to see more JRPGs and stuff.

I think the price point is at 250 because the vita is really ahead of the old generation of portables. Nintendo with the 3ds did not make a jump so big.The result is a cheaper product of course, but at least in my opinion with less value.

And looking at the vita from an hardware point of view 250 dollars plus memory cards looks cheap when compared not at apple products ( that's too easy ) but at things like tegra2 phones and tablets... expecially tablets considering what's inside of them are overpriced as hell.

But i see noone crying about that.

Speaking of shitty hardware, i agree of course on the ps2.

IMHO, the value of the Vita is great. Some seem to compare the price of the Vita to a $200 smartphone, but the ONLY reason a smartphone is cheap is because of 2 year contracts (while the initial retail price is typically $500+). Some try comparing the price to some tablets being $200, but a bit difference between some is they are not made to do the same kind of graphics Vita can do, and they are intended to go after as many people right away, instead of gradually selling (which Sony typically does with their platforms, reducing price over time to gain more owners).

 

[patsu]

People should be able to appreciate Vita more when they get their hands on it.

Sony has been talking about the loose tactical features so far (# of launch games, memory card cans and cannots, launch day limitations, OLED, dual sticks, Uncharted, AR games, 8 minute talk on Vita carrying case).

They have not been able to articulate the overall Vita experience and vision so far.

 

[GraveRobberX]

People should be able to appreciate Vita more when they get their hands on it.

Sony has been talking about the loose tactical features so far (# of launch games, memory card cans and cannots, launch day limitations, OLED, dual sticks, Uncharted, AR games, 8 minute talk on Vita carrying case).

They have not been able to articulate the overall Vita experience and vision so far.

And Who's fault is that?

If you can't properly tell the consumer/customer almost 1.5 monthe before launch, "Yo'!, New Hotness Ova' Here" or "Old and Busted, Try Da' New Freshness" and still go: what happened? why didn't it sell?, or why no positive spin? IT's YOUR OWN GODDAMN FUCKING FAULT!

 

[demolitio]

I still see Sony as being different than Nintendo. The 3DS was the first time Nintendo ever priced out of the mass market range. Sony always does it and usually expects slower sales. Sony is less likely to want to lose more money than Nintendo right now (sort of like why would BMW drop the prices of their cars just to match a Kia in price).

Well, I still look at it two ways. PS Vita will be dropping price throughout of its lifetime to expand its market. The initial pricetag is not mass market and will likely sell less (pretty much anyone should have known that). Currently Vita does not have any big sellers for the Japanese market (their biggest is Minna No Golf which doesn't sell anywhere near what it use to, especially on handhelds). The games will come over time. The majority of developers only had Vita development kits for less than a year (outside of a few with early prototype kits working on a few games, mostly with a few first party developers), compared to developers being able to work with 3DS for over 2 years. It's like when PS3 came out, some JRPGs went to 360 strictly because there were no PS3 development kits at the start of development. Over a period of time PS3 started to see more JRPGs and stuff.

IMHO, the value of the Vita is great. Some seem to compare the price of the Vita to a $200 smartphone, but the ONLY reason a smartphone is cheap is because of 2 year contracts (while the initial retail price is typically $500+). Some try comparing the price to some tablets being $200, but a bit difference between some is they are not made to do the same kind of graphics Vita can do, and they are intended to go after as many people right away, instead of gradually selling (which Sony typically does with their platforms, reducing price over time to gain more owners).

I agree with you. I see a lot of value in it but I guess I'm just a little more hesitant now but you're right about the companies being different. I remember hearing the dev kits haven't been in devs' hands long and I never write a system off at launch knowing big games are around the corner which is what amazes me with people calling it quits with only the launch lineup really even known. The 3DS had a weak launch and it showed, but once big games came, it was a lot easier to sell even without considering the price drop. There's no reason to buy something until a game you want comes out and the Vita is no different. Some like some of the launch games and will buy it then and others will wait, but it's hard for me to listen to people call it dead after a few weeks in one market, even if it's a big market for Sony because not every person is going to like the launch games.

I want to give it time and see but for people to argue that it's dead already apparently forgot this same shitty cycle less than a year ago.

 

[Bumhead]

I don't even think the cost issue has anything to do with the comparative cost of other products.

£200+ is just a lot of money in its own right. £200+ makes it the most expensive console on the market, save for the higher storage PS3. Whenever I talk to people about the Vita, their reaction to the price is always "that's a lot of money", and that counts for both core and casual gamers.

People can make a case that the Vita is priced well, and id agree with them. We were all surprised when they announced the price as low as it was. But the majority of consumers won't see that. They just see a handheld games console priced at £200+. That's not cheap however you see it.

 

[Cpt Conifer]

It's the same depressing story as with the consoles for me. I wish Sega, SNK, hell even Hudson/NEC would get back in the game with a design of their own. Nintendo is slightly better than Sony at designing a good control layout, but neither of them really do it worth a shit. With their positioning, I can't imagine comfortably playing anything on the Vita that uses the dual analog sticks; shit almost looks more awkward and cumbersome than the PSP's single nub (a design choice so heinous that I avoided any game that required it, which there were fortunately few that did). Sony always seems to design their shit with RPGs and their own laid back first-party action games in mind (I'm talking SOTC, etc, shit that basically is a gorgeous entertainment experience but requires no skill).

I'd be closer to getting a 3DS if I was a customer in this market, but really why even bother? I'd just get an Android or iOS device because while the touchscreen-only interface is shitty, the only game companies in the biz failed to offer much better (scratch that if the PSP has great internet capabilities and would let me watch twitch.tv on the bus). So yeah, a perfect storm? I kinda hope so. Sorry.

 

[patsu]

And Who's fault is that?

If you can't properly tell the consumer/customer almost 1.5 monthe before launch, "Yo'!, New Hotness Ova' Here" or "Old and Busted, Try Da' New Freshness" and still go: what happened? why didn't it sell?, or why no positive spin? IT's YOUR OWN GODDAMN FUCKING FAULT!

Product marketing's fault ! ^_^

Sony has always relied on the customers to see the value in their products.

That said, simply hyping up the buzz is unlikely to help. The Japan launch has pretty busy activities (e.g., celeb endorsements, competitions, ads, etc.) too, but it didn't sustain the momentum.

But the majority of consumers won't see that. They just see a handheld games console priced at £200+. That's not cheap however you see it.

They are not targeting the majority of the consumers yet. They are still following the standard "Crossing the Chasm" methodology. Sell to the enthusiasts first, and then move down tier by tier until you reach the mainstream.

I think the problem is the old but popular "Crossing the Chasm" approach may need some adjustment. Internet basically makes the mainstream people aware of the product's "early adoptor" attributes (high price, specialized features).

With their positioning, I can't imagine comfortably playing anything on the Vita that uses the dual analog sticks; shit almost looks more awkward and cumbersome than the PSP's single nub.

Have you tried it ? The dual sticks feel much better than the PSP nub when I played with it more than a month ago.

 

[-Amon-]

I don't even think the cost issue has anything to do with the comparative cost of other products.

£200+ is just a lot of money in its own right. £200+ makes it the most expensive console on the market, save for the higher storage PS3. Whenever I talk to people about the Vita, their reaction to the price is always "that's a lot of money", and that counts for both core and casual gamers.

People can make a case that the Vita is priced well, and id agree with them. We were all surprised when they announced the price as low as it was. But the majority of consumers won't see that. They just see a handheld games console priced at £200+. That's not cheap however you see it.

Explain ipads then.

 

[patsu]

Explain ipads then.

iPad has the same problem initially. ^_^

According to an article, during development, Steve Jobs asked his team what the iPad is good for besides surfing in the toilet.

At launch, my friends couldn't see the value of iPad. I was the only one who pre-ordered one as a gift for my wife. My wife also couldn't see iPad's value. She complained that I was wasting money, and insisted that she's happy with her laptop.

But the magical feeling when you first use iPad sank in. And more and more apps joined the library. Now iPad is indispensable in my family.

According to his book, Steve Jobs was also not completely satisfied with iPad ads even in his final days. He revised them 2-3 times, while searching for the right concept and tone.

EDIT: I remember people made fun of the iPad name, and made "supersized iPhone" GIFs to mock iPad too.

 

[stilgar]

Sony has always relied on the customers to see the value in their products.

That doesn't make sense. Every company relies on the consumer; however it didn't stop Sony to make the most shameless buzz attempt with psp (tags disaster, viral rapper disaster, black/white drama, etc) . They are as marketing dependent as anyone.

 

[patsu]

That doesn't make sense. Every company relies on the consumer; however it didn't stop Sony to make the most shameless buzz attempt with psp (tags disaster, viral rapper disaster, black/white drama, etc) . They are as marketing dependent as anyone.

That's after they abandoned PSP and tried to save it later.

When Kutaragi launched PSP, he made sure it has good value from a consumer's perspective:
http://*****.com/article/7878/Kutaragi-speaks-on-PSPs-loss-leading-price-point

This morning’s PSP announcement has taken many people off guard, with its surprisingly reasonable pricing; and speaking to Forbes this morning, Ken Kutaragi has explained how this was made possible; or, in Kutaragi-san’s own words, how “[Sony] set a price that’s just right to hit a sweet spot.” Apparently this decision was reached, in part, by wandering around the Sony offices, asking employees how much they’d pay for one. It may not be the most comprehensive, cutting edge market research technique ever conceived, but the conclusions drawn do seem quite acceptable.

In one of the early articles, I remember he commented that if consumers see the value in the product, then he doesn't have to spend too much on marketing.

 

[SmokyDave]

iPad has the same problem initially. ^_^

According to an article, during development, Steve Jobs asked his team what the iPad is good for besides surfing in the toilet.

At launch, my friends couldn't see the value of iPad. I was the only one who pre-ordered one as a gift for my wife. My wife also couldn't see iPad's value. She complained that I was wasting money, and insisted that she's happy with her laptop.

But the magical feeling when you first use iPad sank in. And more and more apps joined the library. Now iPad is indispensable in my family.

According to his book, Steve Jobs was also not completely satisfied with iPad ads even in his final days. He revised them 2-3 times, while searching for the right concept and tone.

I think you're going to get a lot of shit for that line.

I happen to agree though. The first time you use an iPad, you just 'get it'. It's magic.

 

[stilgar]

That's after they abandoned PSP and tried to save it later.

When Kutaragi launched PSP, he made sure it has good value from a consumer's perspective:
http://*****.com/article/7878/Kutaragi-speaks-on-PSPs-loss-leading-price-point



In one of the early articles, I remember he commented that if consumers see the value in the product, then he doesn't have to spend too much on marketing.

I understand better what you're saying by good value. Their marketing strategy is to sell the intrinsic value of the system, with high-end tech, polished design, etc.

But I still think that "relying on the consumer" is pure PR talk: the "value" of an object depends on the way you're selling it.

 

[patsu]

But I still think that "relying on the consumer" is pure PR talk: the "value" of an object depends on the way you're selling it.

No. The value of an object depends on how much you use it, and what you (think you) can gain from it. Everyone has their own gauge. Marketing tries to influence that judgment, or/and tries to speed up the adoption.

 

[Wazzim]

When Kutaragi launched PSP, he made sure it has good value from a consumer's perspective:
http://*****.com/article/7878/Kutaragi-speaks-on-PSPs-loss-leading-price-point



In one of the early articles, I remember he commented that if consumers see the value in the product, then he doesn't have to spend too much on marketing.

Everybody knows how SCEI went downhill after Ken departed.

 

[DangerousDave]

I think you're going to get a lot of shit for that line.

I happen to agree though. The first time you use an iPad, you just 'get it'. It's magic.

I agree with the "magical" feeling of the iPad.

But, so far, everybody that has touched a Vita got a similar impression. All hardware reviews are excellent, and all people is amazed about the interface, the quality of the hardware and the graphics.

 

[patsu]

Everybody knows how SCEI went downhill after Ken departed.

I miss Ken sometimes, but the new Sony has some new strength too. Wish they can bring some of his edges back though. I think they complement each other.

 

[Bumhead]

Explain ipads then.

What part of the iPad's success do you need explaining?

Apples absolutely brilliant marketing strategy?

Their positioning of the iPad as an "everything for everyone" device?

The attractive way in which Apple took an existing concept and repackaged in as their own product, creating something that many in the mass market had either never seen before or taken seriously?

I don't really think the Vita situation is comparable to how the iPad was brought to market or marketed. The Vita's problem is that it's just a games console. The iPad initially had a perception problem with the whole "Why this over a netbook?" thing, but I think Apple have marketed the iPad beyond that concern now. The Vita is still just a games console and always will be. As a gamer I think Sony's singular focus towards that is admirable but for the average consumer it raises questions. Questions like "why the hell should I spend so much money on a handheld?". Because with all the caveat's in the world, £200 IS still a lot of money for a handheld games console.

They are not targeting the majority of the consumers yet. They are still following the standard "Crossing the Chasm" methodology. Sell to the enthusiasts first, and then move down tier by tier until you reach the mainstream.

I think the problem is the old but popular "Crossing the Chasm" approach may need some adjustment. Internet basically makes the mainstream people aware of the product's "early adoptor" attributes (high price, specialized features).

I think the problem Sony have is that the old model of relying on enthusiast consumers first isn't reliable. The 3DS proved that, to a certain extent. You're right in that the approach needs adjustment. I don't think Sony can get away with launching a product and idly sitting back expecting a certain type of consumer to buy it. That consumer should be me. I've tried the Vita, loved it and I'm totally invested in the idea of buying one. I'm a gamer who usually buys new hardware on launch day. But the 3DS fiasco and reports of a slow start in Japan have damaged my confidence. I want a Vita, but I'm prepared to watch how the market reacts to it before I buy. If more "core" gamers and enthusiast consumers like me think like that then Sony have a problem.

 

[patsu]

IMHO, gaming/entertainment focus is not the problem. The top use for iPad is gaming, watching video and web surfing.

Sony should show Vita + Playstation Suite together (soon). At the same time, showcase the games. I personally <3 SoundShapes, followed by Gravity Daze.

And yes, they should show a new integrated Playstation experience for Vita. I don't think the social apps should be standalone titles like iOS apps. With an entertainment focus, I think they can be packaged differently. Also, the freaking bubble face should be changed.

At least Phil Harrison did a good job exciting the gamers in his Game 3.0 presentation. He showed LBP and PS Home to make his point.

 

[UncleSporky]

I think the price point is at 250 because the vita is really ahead of the old generation of portables. Nintendo with the 3ds did not make a jump so big.The result is a cheaper product of course, but at least in my opinion with less value.

The jumps are the same as the last generation.

PS2 era hardware -> DS is one generation behind with N64 quality, PSP is kinda-sorta-partway to current gen

PS3 era hardware -> 3DS is one generation behind with Cube/Wii quality, Vita is kinda-sorta-partway to current gen

The Vita hasn't really done anything remarkable here, it's not a massive leap over the way things were set up last time.

Would you say the DS was a cheaper product with less value? I suppose you probably would, though in this case we have the advantage of looking at how software played out on the two systems. Personally I'd say the DS is of higher value simply in light of the library available to us.

The 3DO and Jaguar were higher priced than the competition at their launches too. Did they provide better value than their contemporaries?

 

[Phife Dawg]

IMHO, gaming/entertainment focus is not the problem. The top use for iPad is gaming, watching video and web surfing.

While the latter part is most probably true, the perception for both systems is different. This is also a part of the appeal of the ipad, idevices. They are "hip" and status symbols (marketing as was pointed out). Whatever software, apps etc. may be available for PSV (or 3DS for that matter), it will not change that perception.

 

[mrklaw]

You know there's something wrong in the matrix, when I, GraveRobberX is more interested in the 3DS than the Vita

I mean trophies are my life blood, but I just can't be a Sony "Rah Rah Rah!" cheerleader on this

There are too many mis-steps in my view, and from what I'm seeing they way they are handling this is like they haven't learned shit from the PS3

I'm not asking for a price drop per say, but the proprietary memory card bullshit pissed me off to no end
I have $1,000 saved up to play around with and the Vita is now a wait and see, cause remember how the first buyers of 3DS were, buyer's remorse and Ambassadors R' Us galore

so, 'too many' mis-steps is.... one?

 

[dark10x]

Would you say the DS was a cheaper product with less value? I suppose you probably would, though in this case we have the advantage of looking at how software played out on the two systems. Personally I'd say the DS is of higher value simply in light of the library available to us.

The 3DO and Jaguar were higher priced than the competition at their launches too. Did they provide better value than their contemporaries?

Did you seriously just attempt to compare the PSP to 3DO and Jaguar?

You may value the DS library more, but I much prefer the overall PSP lineup to that of the DS. This wasn't something you could say about 3DO and Jag as they had very small, limited libraries full of crap. They were also significantly more expensive than the competition.

You know there's something wrong in the matrix, when I, GraveRobberX is more interested in the 3DS than the Vita

Do you have a 3DS yet? The Vita launch lineup is better than the entire 3DS library right now. There are a couple truly great AAA 3DS games out there, but the majority of releases are kind of throw-away. I've wasted far too much money on 3DS games and the only one I can truly look back positively on is Mario 3D Land (which is wonderful).

I picked up a 3DS at launch and the lineup was terrible. That isn't the case with Vita.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Did you seriously just attempt to compare the PSP to 3DO and Jaguar?

You may value the DS library more, but I much prefer the overall PSP lineup to that of the DS. This wasn't something you could say about 3DO and Jag as they had very small, limited libraries full of crap. They were also significantly more expensive than the competition.

Everybody grasps to certain straws sometimes. It's pretty irrational.

 

[UncleSporky]

Did you seriously just attempt to compare the PSP to 3DO and Jaguar?

Why not? I didn't call them completely equivalent or anything. I can compare the NES to the PS3 because they're both video game systems. I can compare the Sega Activator to Kinect because they both involve moving your body. If I want, I can compare the PSP to a chunk of ham because they are both sold in stores.

And it is factually correct that the PSP and 3DO both were more expensive than the competition, but more powerful to justify the added expense. Again, did 3DO provide better value than its contemporaries, simply because it was more powerful? You seem to say that it didn't, and arrived at the point I was getting at.

The argument is flawed. A console needs more than power in order to prove it has better value. If you want to claim PSP/Vita offer more value because the games are better, that's one thing, but power alone isn't enough.

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

As long as the consumer thinks the product is worth the price, you'll be fine.
This value can only be created with good software, in the case of portable gaming.

Nobody wil buy hardware because of the good specs. They buy it because of the things you can do with these specs.

Vita hasn't shown much sofar, so it's not that strange the sales aren't on fire yet.

 

[DCharlie]

Do you have a 3DS yet? The Vita launch lineup is better than the entire 3DS library right now

3DS library is not to be sniffed at. Mario Kart, Mario and MH3G are truly AAA efforts, Ghost Recon is an unsung hero of a game. DOA and SF4 are both good/great fighters, Ridge (once you get over 30fps) is a great racer, Layton, Slime mori mori etc etc...

I've not really sat down and thought about which is better because i frankly don't care - all i know is both machines have enough to play on both of them already, Vita arguably got there quicker relatively due to a stronger launch line up but it really is moot.

 

[dark10x]

Why not? I didn't call them completely equivalent or anything. I can compare the NES to the PS3 because they're both video game systems. I can compare the Sega Activator to Kinect because they both involve moving your body. If I want, I can compare the PSP to a chunk of ham because they are both sold in stores.

And it is factually correct that the PSP and 3DO both were more expensive than the competition, but more powerful to justify the added expense. Again, did 3DO provide better value than its contemporaries, simply because it was more powerful? You seem to say that it didn't, and arrived at the point I was getting at.

The argument is flawed. A console needs more than power in order to prove it has better value. If you want to claim PSP/Vita offer more value because the games are better, that's one thing, but power alone isn't enough.

Power alone isn't enough and the PSP proved that to me. I prefer the software lineup of the PSP to that of the DS. You may prefer the DS lineup, but that doesn't mean one is inherently stronger than the other. They both have a lot of excellent games (unlike Jaguar or 3DO vs the competition)

Also, the launch lineup for Vita is stronger than the 3DS lineup almost a year in. It's not just about power.

That said, the PSP was still well within the same price bracket as the DS just as the Vita is close to the 3DS. The 3DO was literally five to six times more expensive than the competition and had a very poor software library.

The fact that you can draw any comparison you like only serves to damage your argument, by the way.

3DS library is not to be sniffed at. Mario Kart, Mario and MH3G are truly AAA efforts, Ghost Recon is an unsung hero of a game. DOA and SF4 are both good/great fighters, Ridge (once you get over 30fps) is a great racer, Layton, Slime mori mori etc etc...

I spent a good three weeks in Europe with just my 3DS and a lot of games (I own 16 games for it not including downloads). On paper, the lineup sounds awesome, but in reality, I had a hard time really getting into most of them. I can't deny the quality of games like Mario, Mario Kart, and MH3G (though I really don't care for the latter two myself). Layton, MH3G, and Slime Mori Mori aren't even available outside of Japan and Nintendo's awful decision to region lock the system prevents them from becoming possible to play for many of us.

Talking about 3DS is kind of interesting, however, as I feel that it should appeal to me more than it does. Honestly, aside from Mario 3D Land, the title I've had the most fun with was Mighty Switch Force. Looks and plays like a dream.

I do actually think both platforms will be great, though. 3DS got off to a VERY VERY rocky start, but I still like the system and will keep buying games for it.

 

[-Amon-]

iPad has the same problem initially. ^_^

According to an article, during development, Steve Jobs asked his team what the iPad is good for besides surfing in the toilet.

At launch, my friends couldn't see the value of iPad. I was the only one who pre-ordered one as a gift for my wife. My wife also couldn't see iPad's value. She complained that I was wasting money, and insisted that she's happy with her laptop.

But the magical feeling when you first use iPad sank in. And more and more apps joined the library. Now iPad is indispensable in my family.

According to his book, Steve Jobs was also not completely satisfied with iPad ads even in his final days. He revised them 2-3 times, while searching for the right concept and tone.

EDIT: I remember people made fun of the iPad name, and made "supersized iPhone" GIFs to mock iPad too.

I was not discussing the validity of tablets per se, but the fact that i don't here no one whining about their price, ipads expecially.

 

[LosDaddie]

iPad has the same problem initially. ^_^

According to an article, during development, Steve Jobs asked his team what the iPad is good for besides surfing in the toilet.

At launch, my friends couldn't see the value of iPad. I was the only one who pre-ordered one as a gift for my wife. My wife also couldn't see iPad's value. She complained that I was wasting money, and insisted that she's happy with her laptop.

But the magical feeling when you first use iPad sank in. And more and more apps joined the library. Now iPad is indispensable in my family.

According to his book, Steve Jobs was also not completely satisfied with iPad ads even in his final days. He revised them 2-3 times, while searching for the right concept and tone.

EDIT: I remember people made fun of the iPad name, and made "supersized iPhone" GIFs to mock iPad too.

Agreed. My wife didn't even want an iPad 2...she was almost hostile to the idea of it. As with your wife, mine also thought it was a complete waste of money, and insisted we just get another laptop. But then I made her try the iPad 2 at the Apple Store for about 20min. The next morning my wife said we should just go buy the iPad and get it out of the way. :lol

That was in early October. The only time she's used our laptop since then was to design Christmas cards to mail out. She also flat out told me not to get her a 3DS (I have one) for Christmas since the iPad was all she needed.

Like I've said for a while now, both the 3DS and PSV are priced out of the mass market. Nintendo should've known such at launch, and they suffered the consequences until they cut the price down to $180. I believe the PSV will similarly struggle until Sony can get the price down.

 

[UncleSporky]

Power alone isn't enough and the PSP proved that to me. I prefer the software lineup of the PSP to that of the DS. You may prefer the DS lineup, but that doesn't mean one is inherently stronger than the other. They both have a lot of excellent games (unlike Jaguar or 3DO vs the competition)

That's fine, nothing wrong with that. Whether DS or PSP had a better library is beside my point, anyone can make the argument either way.

All I'm concerned with is the statement that power justifies price, which simply isn't true. Sure, the components cost more and thus you have to charge more, but that doesn't automatically make it worth the cost to the consumer.

Software is the driving force behind whether it's worth it. As previously established, PSP didn't cut it for me but the DS did, and vice versa for you. That's totally acceptable and logical.

The fact that you can draw any comparison you like only serves to damage your argument, by the way.

You can draw any comparison you like as well. Does that inherently damage any argument you may try to make?

 

[diffusionx]

I think you're going to get a lot of shit for that line.

I happen to agree though. The first time you use an iPad, you just 'get it'. It's magic.

I felt that way too. I think that was the general consensus around the device when it came out. The initial announcement did not make much of a splash. But once it came out, it was clearly a hit.

But... I'm not convinced that the Vita will benefit in the same way. I am sure I will love it. But my girlfriend (who, also, thought the iPad was stupid but bought one a week after using one)? Not so sure. I doubt it.

 

[dark10x]

That's fine, nothing wrong with that. Whether DS or PSP had a better library is beside my point, anyone can make the argument either way.

All I'm concerned with is the statement that power justifies price, which simply isn't true. Sure, the components cost more and thus you have to charge more, but that doesn't automatically make it worth the cost to the consumer.

Software is the driving force behind whether it's worth it. As previously established, PSP didn't cut it for me but the DS did, and vice versa for you. That's totally acceptable and logical.

You can draw any comparison you like as well. Does that inherently damage any argument you may try to make?

Consoles always cost more out of the gate. That's just how it goes. A new console just launching is never going to offer more content than a machine that has matured. You can't expect new consoles to be launched for dirt cheap simply because the software lineup isn't on par with an established platform.

If I were to suggest that the 3DS is going to fail as a result of the Virtual Boy that would be an invalid argument. If I were basing my whole argument on that point it would completely ruin anything I'm trying to say.

 

[sublimit]

Lol was there really a need for a new thread about this?Do we not already have enough "VITAISDOOMED" threads where this could've fitted perfectly?

 

[AzureNightmare]

Do you have a 3DS yet? The Vita launch lineup is better than the entire 3DS library right now. There are a couple truly great AAA 3DS games out there, but the majority of releases are kind of throw-away. I've wasted far too much money on 3DS games and the only one I can truly look back positively on is Mario 3D Land (which is wonderful).

Are you actively trying to be an ignoramus, or does it just come naturally to you?

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Hey, at least people aren't saying "I will wait for a revision"

On topic, the PS Vita is not exactly doomed yet. We need to wait for sales and the Western launch to determine whether all this doom and gloom is only a temporary bump.

 

[Niks]

We need to wait for sales and the Western launch to determine whether all this doom and gloom is only a temporary bump.

If it didnt do well on its home turf, it most likely wont do well overseas either?

IMO, sony fumbled with the 3G version and not having a sizable back-catalogue of PS1 and PS2 games playable day 1 on the device.

 

[Kusagari]

Hey, at least people aren't saying "I will wait for a revision"

On topic, the PS Vita is not exactly doomed yet. We need to wait for sales and the Western launch to determine whether all this doom and gloom is only a temporary bump.

I think the initial western sales are going to be extremely bad. Expect the number of DOOMED posts to rise even more.

 

[patsu]

While the latter part is most probably true, the perception for both systems is different. This is also a part of the appeal of the ipad, idevices. They are "hip" and status symbols (marketing as was pointed out). Whatever software, apps etc. may be available for PSV (or 3DS for that matter), it will not change that perception.

You can't fight perception with software alone.

But you can counter perception with (compelling, new) ideas backed by software implementations and marketing support. As usual, it will take time to convince people.

Apple users have been around for a good 2 decades. Even when Apple was down, some stuck around for 10 years. Similarly, if Sony stay focused on PS gamers initially (Keep them happy), it should be able to maintain a base.

3DS tapped into Nintendo's existing DS userbase to accelerate its growth (It's taking in DS upgraders due to 3DS's new low price). DS sales has thus dwindled drastically.

At the moment, PSP continues to sell due to Vita's price and infancy. If Sony want to keep it that way, then Vita's growth will be slow; like how PS3 grew up (slowly) beside PS2.

If it didnt do well on its home turf, it most likely wont do well overseas either?

IMO, sony fumbled with the 3G version and not having a sizable back-catalogue of PS1 and PS2 games playable day 1 on the device.

Perhaps ! Assuming nothing changes between now and then.

 

[test_account]

If it didnt do well on its home turf, it most likely wont do well overseas either?

IMO, sony fumbled with the 3G version and not having a sizable back-catalogue of PS1 and PS2 games playable day 1 on the device.

Whats wrong with the 3G version?

 

[Phife Dawg]

You can't fight perception with software alone.

But you can counter perception with (compelling, new) ideas backed by software implementations and marketing support. As usual, it will take time to convince people.

Apple users have been around for a good 2 decades. Even when Apple was down, some stuck around for 10 years. Similarly, if Sony stay focused on PS gamers initially (Keep them happy), it should be able to maintain a base.

3DS tapped into Nintendo's existing DS userbase to accelerate its growth (It's taking in DS upgraders due to 3DS's new low price). DS sales has dwindled drastically.

At the moment, PSP continues to sell due to Vita's price and infancy. If Sony want to keep it that way, then Vita's growth will be slow; like how PS3 grow up beside PS2.

Perhaps ! Assuming nothing changes between now and then.

In the end it will be seen as a gaming device (nothing wrong with that of course) regardless of ideas and software.

It will never have the appeal of an ipad, nor does it need to have it imo. The device is targeted at enthusiast gamers. Sony needs to make sure that its main competitor, 3DS doesn't eat too much into that target group. These concerns triggers all the doom and gloom. PSV launched later to the competition than PSP did.

Hey, at least people aren't saying "I will wait for a revision"

On topic, the PS Vita is not exactly doomed yet. We need to wait for sales and the Western launch to determine whether all this doom and gloom is only a temporary bump.

Surely PSV is not doomed yet, but I wouldn't look towards the western launch to determine that. I also think it won't provide the outcome you may look for. I expect it to be a rough launch too. Next year's main shopping season will be the big teller imo. We will know about upcoming software and the system will probably have a price cut by then.

 

[patsu]

In the end it will be seen as a gaming device (nothing wrong with that of course) regardless of ideas and software.

It will never have the appeal of an ipad, nor does it need to have it imo. The device is targeted at enthusiast gamers.

Yes, it won't have the broad base appeal of iPad. But if done right, it should be more appealing than iPad for gaming, and perhaps other form of entertainment.

Initially, it is targeted at enthusiasts and so called early adopters. But Sony will be keen to broaden its appeal with more mainstream contents and price (e.g., Monster Hunter is pretty mainstream in Japan). However the mechanism to reach average consumers would be the Playstation Suite on other day-to-day platforms.

Sony needs to make sure that its main competitor, 3DS doesn't eat too much into that target group. These concerns triggers all the doom and gloom. PSV launched later to the competition than PSP did.

What we are seeing right now may be (old) DS gamers shifting to 3DS en masse.

DS pulled ahead of PSP in its first few years, but PSP gained momentum later too. As long as Vita gains a foothold in the short term, its hardware features and falling price will allow Sony to build its own momentum.

 

[P90]

I think you're going to get a lot of shit for that line.

I happen to agree though. The first time you use an iPad, you just 'get it'. It's magic.

The "magic" of the iPad is true. There is something about the touch, the aesthetic, the whole gestalt that is "magic". I remember the first time my kids used it and the look on their faces and their "Wow! This is the coolest thing in the world!"

 

[Ken Masters]

I still see Sony as being different than Nintendo. The 3DS was the first time Nintendo ever priced out of the mass market range. Sony always does it and usually expects slower sales. Sony is less likely to want to lose more money than Nintendo right now (sort of like why would BMW drop the prices of their cars just to match a Kia in price).

Well, I still look at it two ways. PS Vita will be dropping price throughout of its lifetime to expand its market. The initial pricetag is not mass market and will likely sell less (pretty much anyone should have known that). Currently Vita does not have any big sellers for the Japanese market (their biggest is Minna No Golf which doesn't sell anywhere near what it use to, especially on handhelds). The games will come over time. The majority of developers only had Vita development kits for less than a year (outside of a few with early prototype kits working on a few games, mostly with a few first party developers), compared to developers being able to work with 3DS for over 2 years. It's like when PS3 came out, some JRPGs went to 360 strictly because there were no PS3 development kits at the start of development. Over a period of time PS3 started to see more JRPGs and stuff.

IMHO, the value of the Vita is great. Some seem to compare the price of the Vita to a $200 smartphone, but the ONLY reason a smartphone is cheap is because of 2 year contracts (while the initial retail price is typically $500+). Some try comparing the price to some tablets being $200, but a bit difference between some is they are not made to do the same kind of graphics Vita can do, and they are intended to go after as many people right away, instead of gradually selling (which Sony typically does with their platforms, reducing price over time to gain more owners).

Your BMW/Kia analogy couldn't be more wrong, unlike Sony, BMW isn't hemorrhaging money like Sony

 

[Ra1den]

The "magic" of the iPad is true. There is something about the touch, the aesthetic, the whole gestalt that is "magic". I remember the first time my kids used it and the look on their faces and their "Wow! This is the coolest thing in the world!"

Isn't it just a big ipod touch?

 

[Pureauthor]

As a satisfied owner of an iPad, i have to say I have no idea what this 'magic' you people are talking about is.

 

[GraveRobberX]

As a satisfied owner of an iPad, i have to say I have no idea what this 'magic' you people are talking about is.

Did you press the "Genius" button option, if not, You FOOL!, you lost all the Magic =S

 

[Kusagari]

As a satisfied owner of an iPad, i have to say I have no idea what this 'magic' you people are talking about is.

It's the magic of seeing the Apple logo.

 

[Tobor]

As a satisfied owner of an iPad, i have to say I have no idea what this 'magic' you people are talking about is.

It's hard to explain, since it's an emotional reaction. It's like the first time I ever played Super Mario Brothers as a kid. A sense that everything is as it should be.