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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
I personally don't think Retro has a specific gimmick. They were retro before nintendo bought them. Unless Nintendo specifically stated that's what they are for.

At the same time though, I could see nintendo giving them projects to revitalize because they seem good at it.
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
Alright, my nerdy E3 hype giddygasm.

A surprise 3 min reel at the very start of the conference before anyone talks, featuring a Smash HD reveal, new 2D AND 3D Mario, Mario and Luigi U, Pikmin 3, new Cryengine game, Yoshi's Island 2, and finally a new epic Retro game teaser. The great part would be leading up to each "reveal" is a sort of montage of past games, and finally a center stage Wii U "proper trailer" All done in sync to the Cannibal Holocaust theme, trust me it would fucking fit the moment.

That would be awesome, then of course we hear the mandatory Reggie/Iwata drone on about biz before we get into meaty details and other announcements.
 
I

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
AceBandage said:
Retro's entire existence is to revive older IPs and franchises.
Don't expect a new IP from them.
Click to expand...

I've always hoped for a Raven Blade re-working and release. Yes, the studio was chaotic at that time, Miyamoto and other Nintendo guys didn't like their projects, but i really think its time for them to build on the experience and the close partnership/"tuition" that they benefited to make something 100% new/original/tailored by them. With Nintendo monitoring of course.
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
IdeaMan said:
I've always hoped for a Raven Blade re-working and release. Yes, the studio was chaotic at that time, Miyamoto and other Nintendo guys didn't like their projects, but i really think its time for them to build on the experience and the close partnership/"tuition" that they benefited to make something 100% new/original/tailored by them. With Nintendo monitoring of course.
Click to expand...

Raven Blade looked and sounded horrible though, so much so that Retro staff have publicly condescended about it.
 
G

guek

Banned
AceBandage said:
Two, plus the were the ones that did the Retro Tracks in MK7.
I mean, it's their name.
Retro.
They make retro games for the modern era.
Click to expand...

Retro has only worked on 2 franchises though. There's no real indication that they couldn't be given their own project other than nintendo's reluctance to start up a new franchise in general.
 
I

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
TheExplodingHead said:
Raven Blade looked and sounded horrible though, so much so that Retro staff have publicly condescended about it.
Click to expand...

That fire golem part in the teasing video was one of the most awesome visual thing for a lot of gamers while waiting for the gamecube (yeah, even if it was surely not the real engine, etc.). But yeah, as i said, it would need a lot of rework. But a western BTA/Action game with strong graphics, fluid gameplay, and good ideas for the padlet, by retro, could be a system seller. Think of a Nintendo GOW.

They could buy the Turok rights as some of them are former Iguana, and develop a new iteration for the Wii U, with dino hunting through the padlet, imagine a jungle scenery displayed on the main screen, and a raptor attacking you from behind with no way to sense it other than scanning feverishly the rest of the background by moving the controller around you in the virtual jungle in your living room :D

I want retro on a mature western IP. That's their initial goal for the gamecube.
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
IdeaMan said:
That fire golem part in the teasing video was one of the most awesome visual thing for a lot of gamers while waiting for the gamecube (yeah, even if it was surely not the real engine, etc.). But yeah, as i said, it would need a lot of rework. But a western BTA/Action game with strong graphics, fluid gameplay, and good ideas for the padlet, by retro, could be a system seller. Think of a Nintendo GOW.

They could buy the Turok rights as some of them are former Iguana, and develop a new iteration for the Wii U, with dino hunting through the padlet, imagine a scenery displayed on the main screen, and a velociraptor attacking you from behind with no way to sense it other than scanning feverishly your living room with the controller.

I want retro on a mature western IP. That's their initial goal for the gamecube.
Click to expand...

Sort of like a modern Aliens vs Predator (old school one), I'd be down with that if it was a great split between horror and action/gameplay. Otherwise I'd be gimmicky. Could be cool with Boris' idea of the Upad+zapper idea.

I'd love to see Retro get this kind of freedom, I just don't know if it's gonna happen. Ironically the better Retro's DKCR/MK stuff sells and reviews, the less incentive Nintendo has to stop milking that cow. If you know what I mean.
 
D

DrWong

Member
A bit of 2x speculation (or 5x, the same): I was re-reading the GI article about Euclidean's "Unlimited Detail Engine" and at some point it says this >
Dell goes one step further, suggesting that because Unlimited Detail has generated such massive interest, that the first game "off the block" to use it will get "a bit of free publicity." He also says that "there are a few people who have their hand up for that" but is careful not to name names. While speaking candidly he also makes strong allusions to the fact that his appearance at Gamescom was met with interest from at least one of the console manufacturers.
Click to expand...

I don't know if Euclidean will finally deliver what it's selling with this engine, but the project seems enough solid to get financial support by Australian government and is also funded by a big name. Personnally I want to believe as it would be a true revolution but I'm not enough tech aware to be able to have a definitive opinion. But well, their "guru" seems pretty confident, Crytek seems to believe them and the company is growing (new building/headquarters and they're hiring 3D artists). They have to deliver a new demo (with animation, better art...) within this year and they're working on their SDK.

My point is, if it's true they're in contact with one of the three, how good are the chances to have Nintendo on board ?
 
I

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
TheExplodingHead said:
Sort of like a modern Aliens vs Predator (old school one), I'd be down with that if it was a great split between horror and action/gameplay. Otherwise I'd be gimmicky. Could be be cool with Boris' idea of the Upad+zapper idea.

I'd love to see Retro get this kind of freedom, I just don't know if it's gonna happen. Ironically the better Retro's DKCR/MK stuff sells and reviews, the less incentive Nintendo has to stop milking that cow. If you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it need to be kept for some sub-boss fights, not for every combat, it will become tiresome :p But at one time, you'll know that you are hunted by a raptor and the attack could come from anywhere around you, you are at the center of a virtual jungle and you scrutinize it through the padlet scope, under a lot of stress, every movements in the foliage accentuate your fears, you follow the scratching sounds on the controller speakers...i can already see the sweat on your forehead :D

Otherwise, Nintendo will be forced one way or another, to "let Retro live". Some key members already left the boat because of that very reason (the lack of freedom, the place-an-order type of work commanded by Big N that they are doing, etc.). Even if they are successful, i bet a lot of them would like their creativity to be less locked up. In videogames history, we saw even more successful companies losing their talents by asphyxiating them. IMO, Nintendo are taking a risk if they fill Retro agenda for the next 5 years with only classical IP new iterations.
 
G

guek

Banned
I dunno, I feel like if you're going to say retro's sole purpose is to revive old IPs, you could say the same thing about Monster Games. They've revived 2 old IPs, the same number as Retro, and have thus far done nothing else for nintendo. It seems more likely that nintendo just plain doesn't like approving new IPs, at least outside of downloadable titles.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
guek said:
I dunno, I feel like if you're going to say retro's sole purpose is to revive old IPs, you could say the same thing about Monster Games. They've revived 2 old IPs, the same number as Retro, and have thus far done nothing else for nintendo. It seems more likely that nintendo just plain doesn't like approving new IPs, at least outside of downloadable titles.
Click to expand...

Ehh, I suppose you can sort of say Excite Trucks is a revival.
 
S

shnord

Neo Member
Sweet jesus, I just skimmed through a billion pages of insanity. I had to check to make sure I was in the right thread. I'm glad it's back to actual discussions now that I have an opportunity to post again.

I think New Super Mario Bros Mii would be smart at launch, but it would NOT be worth it as a stand-alone title. If it's essentially NSMBW+ then it surely cost Nintendo next to nothing to produce and would be perfectly suited to throw in as a pre-installed title or an eShop download. "New Super Mario Bros Mii included!" or "Free eShop download included!" would be a good bullet point to add to the box, along with a little screenshot and short description of the game. The description would surely stress that the game has more content than NSMBW, is in HD, and can be played on the TV or the subscreen. If it's a free eShop download, it could be one of a few examples of eShop games shown on the box, as discussed a while ago. Free NSMBM might sway some people, while free HAWKEN might sway others.
If only...


bgassassin said:
Eeeeehhhhhh... I think I'd rather see it as a full-fledged game of it's own a la Namco x Capcom, but that could works also.
Click to expand...
I'd love for the next Smash Bros to only retain the more simple single player modes and mostly focus on making the multiplayer the best it can be, and then Nintendo can produce a completely separate single player game with various Nintendo characters coming together for an epic adventure. I don't care if it's action-adventure or an RPG or whatever -- I just want it to be grandiose and polished to the max. One day... One day...


AceBandage said:
Yes, the pixel density is fairly high.

Code: 
  1080p at 60":  37  (not meant to be viewed up close obviously!)
            DSi XL:  76
          Game Boy:  83
               DSi:  98
    1080p at 21.5": 102  (my monitor)
      DS & DS lite: 107
 3DS bottom screen: 124
               PSP: 128
    3DS top screen: 132  (effectively)
            iPad 2: 132
            PSP Go: 145
  Wii U controller: 158  (assuming it's 854x480 at 6.2")
            iPhone: 163
              Vita: 221
          iPhone 4: 326
Click to expand...
I'm glad this hasn't been forgotten! Did you save this when I originally posted it or did you search for it again?


-Pyromaniac- said:
Not sure if you guys seen these pics, but fun facts about the WiiU controller:

http://i.imgur.com/DgsX5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j7qkC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l324L.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SOzd9.jpg
Click to expand...
I posted a while ago that whoever made these comparisons also made an incorrect comparison between the Wii U controller and the Vita, PS3 and 360 controllers. I haven't bothered to verify these images but the comparison with the 3DS seems about right, so maybe these ones are fine. At any rate, I made my own comparison:

Click to expand...
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
IdeaMan said:
Yeah, it need to be kept for some sub-boss fights, not for every combat, it will become tiresome :p But at one time, you'll know that you are hunted by a raptor and the attack could come from anywhere around you, you are at the center of a virtual jungle and you scrutinize it through the padlet scope, under a lot of stress, every movements in the foliage accentuate your fears, you follow the scratching sounds on the controller speakers...i can already see the sweat in your forehead :D

Otherwise, Nintendo will be forced one way or another, to "let Retro live". Some key members already left the boat because of that very reason (the lack of freedom, the place-an-order type of work commanded by Big N that they are doing, etc.). Even if they are successful, i bet a lot of them would like their creativity to be less locked up. In videogames history, we saw even more successful companies losing their talents by asphyxiating them. IMO, Nintendo are taking a risk if they fill Retro agenda for the next 5 years with only classical IP new iterations.
Click to expand...

You and I are definitely on the same page there, I'd rather see Retro get more freedom than lose more staff. But isn't it sort of the paradox of the heavier dollar? Considering Nintendo has known full well how Retro staff have felt about creative freedom since Pacini and others departed, and now more...it doesn't seem to register with Nintendo. They could give Retro a 200mil budget(?) and total freedom if they wanted, they could have done it before DKCR and probably kept staff, but they didn't. They saw throwing Retro the guaranteed to sell carrot (and a LOT of strict oversight on top of that) in DKCR warranted enough of a leash and investment. Sadly I doubt Nintendo heads are as confident about Retro as a studio as we are, or they would have shown it beforehand.

And I'm only basing this on what Nintendo has done thus far, not said. In this industry it matters not what you say, only what you do. And I find it difficult to imagine Nintendo giving Retro a longer leash all of a sudden. It just seems more savy for business to play it safe, profit from DKCR2 (regardless of what Tanabe says), and if Retro staff don't like it they'll be replaced, just like it's always been. Just my take on it.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
TheExplodingHead said:
You and I are definitely on the same page there, I'd rather see Retro get more freedom than lose more staff. But isn't it sort of the paradox of the heavier dollar? Considering Nintendo has known full well how Retro staff have felt about creative freedom since Pacini and others departed, and now more...it doesn't seem to register with Nintendo. They could give Retro a 200mil budget(?) and total freedom if they wanted, they could have done it before DKCR and probably kept staff, but they didn't. They saw throwing Retro the guaranteed to sell carrot (and a LOT of strict oversight on top of that) in DKCR warranted enough of a leash and investment. Sadly I doubt Nintendo heads are as confident about Retro as a studio as we are, or they would have shown it beforehand.

And I'm only basing this on what Nintendo has done thus far, not said. In this industry it matters not what you say, only what you do. And I find it difficult to imagine Nintendo giving Retro a longer leash all of a sudden. It just seems more savy for business to play it safe, profit from DKCR2 (regardless of what Tanabe says), and if Retro staff don't like it they'll be replaced, just like it's always been. Just my take on it.
Click to expand...

200 million seems a bit extreme.
They could give them more freedom, but at the same time the turn around in Western studios is pretty insane.
People leave regardless of how it's going, they get better offers or whatever.
And the people that left and started their own studio aren't exactly getting any freedom. Their games aren't being made or funded.
 
D

DrWong

Member
Didn't see it reported here - sorry if I missed it.

From destructoid: Nicalis is teasing a Wii U/3DS projec they will officially announce in May. I'm not yet sure if it really is a 3DS/Wii U cross plat. title (check video in the link)>
We also have the first tease of Nicalis's upcoming Wii U/3DS game. Rumor has it will be some sort of multiplayer thing, and that it will be awesome. When this game blows up into a huge hit later in your life, remember who you heard about it from first- your fat, bald and tired friend Holmes.
Click to expand...
 
M

Medalion

Banned
So GDC is coming up on the 5-9th of March, and I stumbled across an article by zeldainformer's site... they believe that at this event Nintendo will show off more about the current Wii-U, more specifically the final specs and even some game or game announcements... this is the first time I've heard of this... I thought they were saving all that for E3, are they just talking out of their ass or what?
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Medalion said:
So GDC is coming up on the 5-9th of March, and I stumbled across an article by zeldainformer's site... they believe that at this event Nintendo will show off more about the current Wii-U, more specifically the final specs and even some game or game announcements... this is the first time I've heard of this... I thought they were saving all that for E3, are they just talking out of their ass or what?
Click to expand...

Don't trust a thing Zeldainformer says.
Ever.
 
G

guek

Banned
Medalion said:
So GDC is coming up on the 5-9th of March, and I stumbled across an article by zeldainformer's site... they believe that at this event Nintendo will show off more about the current Wii-U, more specifically the final specs and even some game or game announcements... this is the first time I've heard of this... I thought they were saving all that for E3, are they just talking out of their ass or what?
Click to expand...

iirc, the source is 2chan, so the rumor came from the deepest bowels of the internet
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
AceBandage said:
200 million seems a bit extreme.
They could give them more freedom, but at the same time the turn around in Western studios is pretty insane.
People leave regardless of how it's going, they get better offers or whatever.
And the people that left and started their own studio aren't exactly getting any freedom. Their games aren't being made or funded.
Click to expand...

I know, just giving a extreme example of if Nintendo had total confidence vs actual "money on the table" confidence.

And maybe Wikan and Pearson would have left regardless, but I'd bet Pacini and his guy's wouldn't have if given the freedom they wanted. And yeah, that's kind of the disgust of this industry, guy's like Pacini should get at least a small shot at something, rather than being swept under the rug. The industry by and large manages names and numbers than actual individual talent... But this is sort of a ongoing cycle with how Nintendo treats western dev's and risk associated, especially now.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
AniHawk said:
it's probably a reboot of some 80s thing like little nemo or ikari warriors
Click to expand...

Yes please!

TheExplodingHead said:
I know, just giving a extreme example of if Nintendo had total confidence vs actual "money on the table" confidence.

And maybe Wikan and Pearson would have left regardless, but I'd bet Pacini and his guy's wouldn't have if given the freedom they wanted. And yeah, that's kind of the disgust of this industry, guy's like Pacini should get at least a small shot at something, rather than being swept under the rug. The industry by and large manages names and numbers than actual individual talent... But this is sort of a ongoing cycle with how Nintendo treats western dev's and risk associated, especially now.
Click to expand...


Well, how Nintendo treats its own studios is just how Nintendo is and always has been.
They like to be in control of pretty much every aspect. And it shows through in the quality of their games.
And it's hardly just Nintendo. It's that way everywhere. You either make what you want in a small studio, or you make what your boss wants in a large one.
 
I

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
TheExplodingHead said:
You and I are definitely on the same page there, I'd rather see Retro get more freedom than lose more staff. But isn't it sort of the paradox of the heavier dollar? Considering Nintendo has known full well how Retro staff have felt about creative freedom since Pacini and others departed, and now more...it doesn't seem to register with Nintendo. They could give Retro a 200mil budget(?) and total freedom if they wanted, they could have done it before DKCR and probably kept staff, but they didn't. They saw throwing Retro the guaranteed to sell carrot (and a LOT of strict oversight on top of that) in DKCR warranted enough of a leash and investment. Sadly I doubt Nintendo heads are as confident about Retro as a studio as we are, or they would have shown it beforehand.

And I'm only basing this on what Nintendo has done thus far, not said. In this industry it matters not what you say, only what you do. And I find it difficult to imagine Nintendo giving Retro a longer leash all of a sudden. It just seems more savy for business to play it safe, profit from DKCR2 (regardless of what Tanabe says), and if Retro staff don't like it they'll be replaced, just like it's always been. Just my take on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, business imperatives, Nintendo possible nervousness about the risk to waste this studio resources for a new ip with no guarantee of success rather than making a safe-bet-of-good-sells classic IP, etc.

But at one point, they will not be able to replace all the talent departures (Retro will not be Retro anymore, etc.) because of the non-satisfaction of being just subcontractor for several years.

I think there is a third way between freeing them loose & wild with 4 new IP projects, or using them like serviceable people: letting them build this new western IP, with their own cultural influences, their touch, but under a close monitoring of Nintendo, and a strong promotional effort. A full new console generation of Retro developing DKC, Metroid, Starfox, Zelda Dungeons, Circuits of Mario Kart Wii U, or whatever, will be a terrible missed opportunity.

I must sleep now, cya guys, and hope the GDC will bring us some exciting news :)
 
T

TheExplodingHead

Banned
AceBandage said:
Yes please!




Well, how Nintendo treats its own studios is just how Nintendo is and always has been.
They like to be in control of pretty much every aspect. And it shows through in the quality of their games.
And it's hardly just Nintendo. It's that way everywhere. You either make what you want in a small studio, or you make what your boss wants in a large one.
Click to expand...

Definitely, and it's understandable to keep a close eye on your investments, obviously. But there comes a point where if all you're investing in is things the creative talent don't want, you lose talent. I think part of Nintendo's issue with Retro is getting the oversight, freedom and IP's just right for that team of individuals. For another extreme metaphor, do just like modern states do, you give your tax slaves certain liberties to make certain votes/choices and take up whatever jobs they like, because it in turn makes them more productive and produces more tax revenue. Nintendo needs to make Retro more productive by letting them choose what they want to do, to a degree. And like the film, music and book industry the games business needs to start managing individuals/team talents more often, instead of studio/company barcode.

But I'd love to see a new Pacini game, whatever size the studio.
 
E

Eggplant Wizard

Member
Retro certainly brought Metroid (...briefly) and Donkey Kong back into the spotlight in a way that wouldn't have been possible with games like Fusion and Jungle Beat, but I think it's silly to suggest that Nintendo wouldn't put them on Zelda or allow them to make an IP just because doing revivals is their "job."
 
A

AzaK

Member
bachikarn said:
What an idiotic post. Completely baseless.
Click to expand...

Really? Retro has done nothing but existing IP's for its entire life. None of their original games came to fruition.

I really do want to see them to their own IP with their own flavour. Nintendo just has to get the balls to do it.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Eggplant Wizard said:
Retro certainly brought Metroid (...briefly) and Donkey Kong back into the spotlight in a way that wouldn't have been possible with games like Fusion and Jungle Beat, but I think it's silly to suggest that Nintendo wouldn't put them on Zelda or allow them to make an IP just because doing revivals is their "job."
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting that they won't, in the distant future, work on a Zelda.
But I would certainly be very surprised to see a brand new IP from them.
There's so many awesome IPs that Nintendo could revive and modernize. I don't see why they need to make new IPs.
 
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