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Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2012 (Mar 26 - Apr 01)

T

Terrell

Member
I'm surprised at people being shocked at the KH3D numbers. KH is basically Square Enix's Call of Duty or Madden now, running it into the ground to cash in while they can, regardless of the consequences to the brand. Hell, we're getting close to seeing more Kingdom Hearts games per generation than FINAL FANTASY GAMES. THAT'S FUCKING SAD.
 
K

ksamedi

Member
Terrell said:
I'm surprised at people being shocked at the KH3D numbers. KH is basically Square Enix's Call of Duty or Madden now, running it into the ground to cash in while they can, regardless of the consequences to the brand. Hell, we're getting close to seeing more Kingdom Hearts games per generation than FINAL FANTASY GAMES. THAT'S FUCKING SAD.
Click to expand...

Those are pretty bad examples of franchises that have been run into the ground. But yeah, I get your point. I think SE made too many spin off titles for KH.
 
B

BishopLamont

Banned
KH underperformed, I thought the hype around it was pretty big, so I was a bit bullish on how it'd sell. I wouldn't call it a bomba, but I think SE did expect more. If anything the blame shouldn't be on the 3DS, its the next Japan console, it being a kiddy console or that only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles excuse doesn't fly anymore. Proper core third party support is on it, and everyone knows. We'll see how its legs go, if it ends up around 500k, I doubt SE would think much about it, besides its how it sells worldwide that matters more.

Userbase, bad reputation from previous entries and franchise fatigue would also have an effect, its not like Kingdom hearts isn't mainstream enough for the userbase to not count and its not exactly popular enough to be a system seller to every fan. Hell, One piece gave the PS3 a bigger boost than KH did to the 3DS.

KI on the other hand had a nice drop, I'm really hoping it gains a good pair of legs.
 
F

frostbyte

Member
Disappointing sales for KH3D. Probably franchise fatigue as others have stated.

electroplankton said:
Apart from Dead or Alive Dimensions, Ace Combat and maybe Tekken, I didn't see big bombas on 3DS so far.
Click to expand...

People have already forgotten about Beyond the Labyrinth :(

Proves how big a bomba it was, I guess.
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
New releases {2012.04.12}

[3DS] Nikoli no Sudoku 3D: 2nd Collection 1000 Problems in 8 Puzzles <PZL> (Hamster) (¥3.990)

[PSV] Rayman Origins <ACT> (Ubisoft) (¥2.500)
[PSV] Nikoli no Sudoku V: Shugyoku no 12 Puzzle <PZL> (Hamster) (¥5.229)

[PSP] Armen Noir Portable # <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥5.040)
[PSP] Armen Noir Portable [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥7.140)
[PSP] Atelier Elkrone: Dear for Otomate # <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥6.090)
[PSP] Atelier Elkrone: Dear for Otomate [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥8.190)
[PSP] Princess Evangile Portable # <ADV> (CyberFront) (¥6.090)
[PSP] Princess Evangile Portable [Limited Edition] <ADV> (CyberFront) (¥8.190)
[PSP] Gendai Grand Strategy: Isshoku Sokuhatsu - Gunji Balance Houkai (SystemSoft Selection) <SLG> (SystemSoft Alpha) (¥3.129)

[PS3] Rayman Origins <ACT> (Ubisoft) (¥2.500)
[PS3] DiRT 3: Complete Edition <RCE> (Codemasters) (¥3.990)
[PS3] EA Sports Grand Slam Tennis 2 <SPT> (Electronic Arts) (¥5.040)
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
michaelius said:
Tales actually proves otherwise

3DS got port of Abyss released years ago which was one of biggest and most famous Tales games with full length anime not so long ago.

Vita got port of much smaller and recent Tales game from DS

And with half of userbase Vita Tales sold about 2/3 (+unknown number online) of 3DS ToA
Click to expand...

Abyss 3DS = quick direct port with concessions (30 fps battles, lower poly models, 2D FMV) and no new content. Sold 121,826 at last ranking.

Innocence R Vita = ground up remake with tons of new content, new graphics/audio, new party members, new battle system, greatly expanded story, new cutscenes by Studio I.G. and developed inhouse at Tales Studio. Sold 63,250 at last ranking.
 
E

electroplankton

Banned
lunchwithyuzo said:
Abyss 3DS = quick direct port with concessions (30 fps battles, lower poly models, 2D FMV) and no new content. Sold 121,826 at last ranking.

Innocence R Vita = ground up remake with tons of new content, new graphics/audio, new party members, new battle system, greatly expanded story, new cutscenes by Studio I.G. and developed inhouse at Tales Studio. Sold 63,250 at last ranking.
Click to expand...

+ historically Tales of... always performed better on Sony hardware than Nintendo's, as Harvest Moon did always stronger on DS than PSP for example.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Spiegel said:
I'm guessing that the userbase excuse can only be used when 3DS games don't perform that well.
Click to expand...
Well, except Tales previously thrived on smaller bases (PSP vs DS, PS3 vs Wii) so there's a past precedent that it doesn't matter. I don't think the base argument really washes for KH3D either though.
 
T

t3nmilez

Member
electroplankton said:
Do we know Konami's expectations? Because I don't think BotL had an even average commercial potential.
Click to expand...

The game is also not very good, I'd say the sales are pretty acceptable. I don't understand why people complain when certain games don't sell that well when the quality of the game would make it pretty obvious.
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Spiegel said:
I'm guessing that the userbase excuse can only be used when 3DS games don't perform that well.
Click to expand...

No, I agree that ToInnocenceR did bad especially because Vita's poor hardware sales.
The main problem is that this issue could be a real issue also now, months from the debut of Vita, and the better results of some games (like Tales of, or also Mosou or Ridge Racer or Beatemup from Capcom) could lead the softco in bringing their titles on 3DS and not Vita, until Vita will match a certain userbase (but reaching a certain userbase will take a while if there are few games that can boos the HW weekly rhythm)
 
S

Spiegel

Member
I just found funny that the same people who have been excusing bad 3DS performances because the userbase was small are now on the other side criticizing bad Vita performances.

Both Tales games sold pretty bad. And Namco would be better cancelling any future port/re-imagining of Tales games that no one wants and focusing on the Tales RM spinoffs for any of the two handhelds (or both).
 
E

electroplankton

Banned
Spiegel said:
I just found funny that the same people who have been excusing bad 3DS performances because the userbase was small are now on the other side criticizing bad Vita performances.

Both Tales games sold pretty bad. And Namco would be better cancelling any future port/re-imagining of Tales games that no one wants and focusing on the Tales RM spinoffs for any of the two handhelds (or both).
Click to expand...

Different situations.
PSP received Tales of Eternia in its first months and that can be directly compared with Innocence R performance; also 3DS was pretty young when Abyss was released; it's not that people compare a console with 5.5m and one with 15m.
 
C

Culex

Banned
At it's current pace, Vita will reach 1 million hardware units LTD in ~ 30 weeks. That's 7.5 months. This is at a favorable average of 12k per week.

At it's current pace, 3DS will reach 8 million LTD in ~ 30 weeks. The 3DS has been averaging since Jan 1st about 83k per week.

These figures do not include holidays, so a lot can happen between now and the end of the year.
 
E

extralite

Member
t3nmilez said:
The game is also not very good, I'd say the sales are pretty acceptable. I don't understand why people complain when certain games don't sell that well when the quality of the game would make it pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

You say that because you played it? Not that the quality would really relate to sales anyway but it's a great game actually.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Spiegel said:
I just found funny that the same people who have been excusing bad 3DS performances because the userbase was small are now on the other side criticizing bad Vita performances.
Click to expand...
I find it funny you're making blanket statements in this. I certainly didn't do that, so you're already wrong, it isn't "the same people". Funny.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
When can the userbase excuse be used for Vita games?


t3nmilez said:
The game is also not very good, I'd say the sales are pretty acceptable. I don't understand why people complain when certain games don't sell that well when the quality of the game would make it pretty obvious.
Click to expand...
That doesnt really matter much though. I mean, sure, it is understandable if a not so good game doesnt sell very well. But if the company have used much money in developing a game, and then it sells bad, that is what matters.
 
E

Erethian

Member
t3nmilez said:
The game is also not very good, I'd say the sales are pretty acceptable. I don't understand why people complain when certain games don't sell that well when the quality of the game would make it pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

Saying that the game is not very good, or had no marketing, is just another way of saying why the game bombed.

Of course that depends on your definition of the word "bombed". It used to mean games that spectacularly failed to meet sales expectations, but these days it's used for anything that fails to sell.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
Erethian said:
Right now, if people want. The more important question is when it won't be used.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the 3DS userbase excuse was used up to when the 3DS had sold several of million units, so i guess the Vita still has some time left :)

EDIT: Not being facetious, just saying that the userbase excuse applies to every system if it is first being used.
 
S

Spiegel

Member
electroplankton said:
Different situations.
PSP received Tales of Eternia in its first months and that can be directly compared with Innocence R performance;
Click to expand...

A direct comparison is taking a port of a big last gen game released 4 months after launch (TOA) and comparing it with another port of a big last gen game released 4 months after launch (TOE).



electroplankton said:
also 3DS was pretty young when Abyss was released; it's not that people compare a console with 5.5m and one with 15m.
Click to expand...

And 500k (1 month after launch) to 1.1M (4 months after launch) isn't a big difference? It's more than double and with these low amounts, it should be much more noticeable.

lunchwithyuzo said:
I find it funny you're making blanket statements in this. I certainly didn't do that, so you're already wrong, it isn't "the same people". Funny.
Click to expand...

I apologize if I'm wrong and you never used the userbase excuse. I certanly can be wrong because there is a certain number of posters on media-create threads who post similar arguments and I probably mixed some of the responses.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Namco has been putting each Tales game on a different platform, so the Tales fanbase has to basically own every console/handheld.

That's fucked up.

Namco should be aiming for multiplatform releases from now on, at least a single release for both (threeth?) handhelds and all the consoles (maybe excluding Wii, maybe including Wiiu in the future) to recover from this mismanagement.

Ideally multiplatform across all platforms from the 3DS onwards.
 
E

Erethian

Member
test_account said:
Yeah, the 3DS userbase excuse was used up to when the 3DS had sold several of million units, so i guess the Vita still has some time left :)

EDIT: Not being facetious, just saying that the userbase excuse applies to every system if it is first being used.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, until the userbase excuse becomes an admission of failure on the part of the console manufacturer or the publisher.

Like if someone used a userbase excuse for a 360 title being sold in Japan, that's true. Because Microsoft has consistently, and quite spectacularly, failed in the Japanese market. Or if someone were to use it as an excuse for a hardcore Wii game doing badly, it'd also be true. Because Nintendo and third-parties collectively failed to build an audience for those type of games on the system.

But it's a defensive reaction to a perceived slight against a system, usually. When it's no slight to the 3DS that KH: DDD did badly. Even the most successful systems can have high profile bombs through no fault of the userbase or the console manufacturer.

ElFly said:
Namco has been putting each Tales game on a different platform, so the Tales fanbase has to basically own every console/handheld.

That's fucked up.

Namco should be aiming for multiplatform releases from now on, at least a single release for both (threeth?) handhelds and all the consoles (maybe excluding Wii, maybe including Wiiu in the future) to recover from this mismanagement.

Ideally multiplatform across all platforms from the 3DS onwards.
Click to expand...

They should probably abandon Tales on handhelds except for cheap, outsourced spin-offs. The series finally found its home on PS3 and is doing pretty well as a result of it. Releasing on PS3/360 wouldn't hurt for the eventual localisation, though.
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Spiegel said:
A direct comparison is taking a port of a big last gen game released 4 months after launch (TOA) and comparing it with another port of a big last gen game released 4 months after launch (TOE).





And 500k (1 month after launch) to 1.1M (4 months after launch) isn't a big difference? It's more than double and with these low amounts, it should be much more noticeable.



I apologize if I'm wrong and you never used the userbase excuse. I certanly can be wrong because there is a certain number of posters on media-create threads who post similar arguments and I probably mixed some of the responses.
Click to expand...

Did ToE PSP perform way better then ToA 3DS?
Just askin', I really don't remember.
To me the main problem about ToIR is that it demostrated that, also if some franchises could perform better on a Sony platform, due to the different actual status of PSP/Vita against 3DS, the Nintendo handheld could be the right choice up to now to develop for (it happened for TalesOf, but also for Mosou, and in some way also for Ridge racer and Capcom beat'emup), and I think that this was one of the target Nintendo was aiming for (with the anticipated release of its hardware, but also with their collaboration with third parties on that particular target/demographic)

About KH I'm curious to see how it will perform in the next weeks. I'm quiet confident that having release it in the first part of the lifecicle of the console affected its results, but was just one of the reasons behind its low results.

Said that, I don't think that 3DS is heaven, where every title perform perfeclty, but it's obviously a very good choice for japanese developers up to now for the japanese market, also for franchises that were not a good fit on DS.
 
Bruno MB

Bruno MB

Member
Portable Tales of (Ports and remakes):

[PSP] Tales of Eternia + PSP The Best (2005-03-03) - 249,090
[PSP] Tales of Phantasia Narikiri Dungeon X (2010-08-05) - 180,650
[PSP] Tales of Destiny 2 + PSP The Best (2010-01-28) - 135,371
[GBA] Tales of Phantasia (2003-08-01) - 134,608
[PSP] Tales of Phantasia: Full Voice Edition (2006-09-07) - 111,034
[3DS] Tales of the Abyss (2011-06-30) - 106,540
[PSP] Tales of Rebirth + PSP The Best (2008-03-19) - 89,944
[PSV] Tales of Innocence R (2012-01-26) - 57,838

Source: Famitsu.

Man God said:
Days and CoM also had a very positive track record in the US and KH is a very western franchise to begin with.
Click to expand...

Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 940,000
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days - 750,000
 
S

saichi

Member
I have learned to accept the fact that everyone has different expectations for each new releases. Any releases can be a bomba (ex. MH3G since it doesn't sell 2 million first week like MHP3) and anything can be doing well (ex. there are a couple people every week would say VITA is doing well in Japan with 10K a week).

everything is relative eh
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
thehypocrite said:
KH3D is a Bomba. The expectation was set, since everybody in japan is buying the 3DS these CORE franchises have the chance to sell equally or better to the numbers being put by the PSP in japan, they haven't thus this is a really bad situation for 3rd parties.
Click to expand...
FWIW, known Famitsu PSP software sales by the time that hardware had reached 5.7 million. EDIT: Which was over 2.5 years.
nordique said:
Where does DDD sit relative to the top 10 3DS first weeks (game releases) in Japan?
Click to expand...
Famitsu numbers for those games with higher first weeks.
MH3G 471K
MK7 452K
SM3DL 345K

Looks like that's it. Next comes
OOT3D 183K
RE:R 161K
IEGo 152K
 
R

Road

Member
saichi said:
I have learned to accept the fact that everyone has different expectations for each new releases. Any releases can be a bomba (ex. MH3G since it doesn't sell 2 million first week like MHP3) and anything can be doing well (ex. there are a couple people every week would say VITA is doing well in Japan with 10K a week).

everything is relative eh
Click to expand...
It's called having an allegiance.
 
F

friz898

Member
Hey Guys,


I'm not sure where to post this. I'm going to try the "thread for questions that dont deserve a thread" place next.



Basically, is there any website, or easy method to figure out pretty close or pretty roughly the US or Worldwide sales of any video game?


Sure, when they sell a ton we get a price release. We have Nintendo's Million sellers, and we have plenty other examples as noted in Wikipedia. But says like "Man, I wonder how well Star Ocean 2 sold for the PSP!"

Is there anyway to figure this out?
Is there some kind of method if I do some kind of ridiculous research using the NPD, Pal Charts, and Media Create that I could figure this out --- and even then, a way to figure out games that dont make the top 10/20?


Thanks any replies/help.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
Nothing very good. There's a site that "has" such information, but there's little enough reason to believe its numbers have basis in fact that GAF even filters out its name.
 
F

friz898

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Nothing very good. There's a site that "has" such information, but there's little enough reason to believe its numbers have basis in fact that GAF even filters out its name.
Click to expand...


Although new to Gaf (only since last August), I think I've read enough to know which site you're referring too.


Call me a nerd because there is absolutely zero reason why I should want such data, but I am dying to know how all the Vita games are selling worldwide. What is the best selling etc.


I really cannot get a clear picture.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
lunchwithyuzo said:
Historically he's right. Tales did better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii despite significantly lower userbases. Now it's seemingly changed (and not just for Tales).
Click to expand...

I think people tend to read too much into the manufacturer in these circumstances and not enough into the individual platforms themselves. I don't think it's accurate to say that Tales was more successful on "Sony platforms" and that's now changed; it was way more successful on PS3 (for reasons specific to the PS3) and a good bit more successful on PSP (for reasons specific to the PSP) and now it's floundering slightly less on 3DS compared to Vita for a whole different set of reasons (while its success on PS3 has very likely not changed at all.)

I think if the Vita continues to perform terribly it's pretty likely that this trend will continue, but frankly I expect if the Vita takes off eventually it'd be a better long-term Tales platform than 3DS.

Does that make sense?

(For anyone keeping track, I've come around a bit on the idea that the DS was just a lousy platform for Tales to start with.)
 
E

extralite

Member
charlequin said:
I think people tend to read too much into the manufacturer in these circumstances and not enough into the individual platforms themselves. I don't think it's accurate to say that Tales was more successful on "Sony platforms" and that's now changed; it was way more successful on PS3 (for reasons specific to the PS3) and a good bit more successful on PSP (for reasons specific to the PSP) and now it's floundering slightly less on 3DS compared to Vita for a whole different set of reasons (while its success on PS3 has very likely not changed at all.)
Click to expand...

It was also more successful on PS2 versus GC, both the original ones and the graphically inferior port of Symphonia and on PS1 versus SNES Phantasia (which of course was a new IP on an expensive cartridge medium). So it's fully correct to say that up until Innocence Vita Tales was doing better on Sony platforms even when they got inferior efforts.
 
nordique

nordique

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
FWIW, known Famitsu PSP software sales by the time that hardware had reached 5.7 million. EDIT: Which was over 2.5 years.

Famitsu numbers for those games with higher first weeks.
MH3G 471K
MK7 452K
SM3DL 345K

Looks like that's it. Next comes
OOT3D 183K
RE:R 161K
IEGo 152K
Click to expand...



Ah Cheers thanks


Thats not that bad then, when put in that perspective

3DS games seem to have strong legs in general relative to first week (I think if one can double fw sales over the course of its shelf-lifetime, its pretty strong)


I'd expect KH 3D to end up with around 500k which is a successful number for the Japanese market.
 
B

Boney

Banned
extralite said:
It was also more successful on PS2 versus GC, both the original ones and the graphically inferior port of Symphonia and on PS1 versus SNES Phantasia (which of course was a new IP on an expensive cartridge medium). So it's fully correct to say that up until Innocence Vita Tales was doing better on Sony platforms even when they got inferior efforts.
Click to expand...

While this thread has had this argument ad nauseam, what you're saying is in fact true, but it doesn't in any way explain why this phenomenom happens.

I do find it interesting charlequin that you think Vita is potentionally a better house for Tales than 3DS, why is that? I assume you're talking about remake/ports and not original entries as well right?
 
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