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[chickdigger802]

http://www.1up.com/news/op-ed-gamers-draw-line-creator_2

A good read. Didn't realize there were so many cases like this (didn't know about the DQ composer ww2 thing).

I usually don't really care about the shit that goes on with creators, like I usually don't care about what goes on with celeb's personal lives and what not...

But I did delete draw something after that CEO's 'choice' tweets... so who knows.

 

[Meccanical]

Never knew that Sugiyama stuff.

He should shut up and just write music.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I won't separate the creation from the creator.

If the developer is an asshole, racist, homophobe, generally unlikable person, I don't want to see them be successful. I don't want to see them reach higher prominence to spread their awful opinions.

Therefore I will not support whatever game they made. Case in point: Fez. It looked pretty cool, too.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

meh.....who cares.

 

[linko9]

People can have whatever opinions they want, and I won't think less of their games for it. Sugiyama is one of my favorite composers, all I care about is his music, and I won't think less of it or the DQ games because of his political stances.

 

[El Sloth]

Why am I not surprised that Oddworld's creator is a truther?

 

[Cartman86]

I won't separate the creation from the creator.

If the developer is an asshole, racist, homophobe, generally unlikable person, I don't want to see them be successful. I don't want to see them reach higher prominence to spread their awful opinions.

Therefore I will not support whatever game they made. Case in point: Fez. It looked pretty cool, too.

Yep pretty much this, though it does depend on how many people made the game. If it's just the composer on a hundred person team I wouldn't penalize them all.

A recent example I guess would be Curt Schilling who posts links to stories about global warming being bullshit among other conservative talking points (from sites that promote birther theories among other shit). One time I decides to tweet back to him after his posted a story. If I wasn't over Elder Scrolls type games I probably would've bought the game.

Uh oh, global warming loons: here comes Climategate II! – Telegraph Blogs http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j...obal-warming-loons-here-comes-climategate-ii/

@gehrig38 Climategate wasn't what the news reported those first couple days. Look into the inquiries into that to see it wasn't a conspiracy

@bricewgilbert Just lies, and then more lies and more BS. The evidence is NOT there to support the larger theories, and hasn't been.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Consider the Dragon Quest series: The great-granddaddy of console role-playing games, Dragon Quest has defined the baseline for the genre and exerted a tremendous impact on pop culture at large for more than a quarter of a decade. Yet the man responsible for the series' memorable music since the very beginning, composer Koichi Sugiyama, is an avowed Japanese nationalist who denies his nation's World War II-era crimes in China and Korea. Sugiyama published a paid advertisement in the Washington Post disavowing Japanese war actions including the Rape of Nanking and the use of "comfort women."

Wow.

 

[Massa]

I won't separate the creation from the creator.

If the developer is an asshole, racist, homophobe, generally unlikable person, I don't want to see them be successful. I don't want to see them reach higher prominence to spread their awful opinions.

Therefore I will not support whatever game they made. Case in point: Fez. It looked pretty cool, too.

The problem is when you don't know the developer in question and pass judgement on a single, out of context remark. Case in point, the Fez thing.

 

[jooey]

Why am I not surprised that Oddworld's creator is a truther?

I don't know, why?

 

[Mandoric]

Sugiyama probably benefits in public acceptance from the obvious Wagner comparison.

 

[i-Lo]

I won't separate the creation from the creator.

If the developer is an asshole, racist, homophobe, generally unlikable person, I don't want to see them be successful. I don't want to see them reach higher prominence to spread their awful opinions.

Therefore I will not support whatever game they made. Case in point: Fez. It looked pretty cool, too.

I concur. That said, the problem becomes when the personal dogmas, bigotries, biases have direct effect on the shaping of the product.

For example, would you care if person who believes in creationism:

1. Does level designs for a game

or

2. Plans an entire game's premise on creationism and tries to push it as a fact (as a part of theme)

Personally, I'd care if it's the second one. That said, once I knew about the character of the person behind the scene it would inevitably affect me (case in point: IGN's interview with SotC creator Mr. Ueda and his views on sexes and their strict roles in the society). But I'd try and not let it get to me.

 

[Chesskid1]

this guy needs to stop writing articles and start work on the next scribblenauts.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I had somehow pushed the Sugiyama thing to the back of my mind.. jesus.

Goon on TFrog to write this article, it's been rolling around in my head for a good few weeks now. The separation of art & artist...

 

[90sRobots]

Good points and all, but I feel like the gaming press need to be reminded that .000000001% of people that play videogames don't give a fuck about this kind of stuff. Yeah, Destructoid wants to be cool and boycott Shadow Complex or have media silence over Halo 3 because it's popular or whatever, but it's all bullshit posturing in the end.

Remember all those 1UP podcasts where Garnett and John would go on and on and on about Metacritic scores? Who gives a fuck about Metacritic scores? I sure don't and neither do my IRL gamer friends. Lots of GAFers do, but that's GAF being GAF. Whenever Garnett would start a sentence with "is it our responsibility as reviewers" I would groan and then fast forward.

I love Parish's writing and I get that 1UP writes for the "hardcore gamer", but sometimes the gaming press needs to take a step back and realize most people will never know who some of these developers are. It's not a sexy, marketable job like a big-budget film director. It's the same reason why my real-life friends were all IDGAF when EGM closed down.

As for the topic on hand, Polanski finding his way into an underage girl's smells doesn't stop Chinatown from being a great movie.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Out of sight, out of mind could work.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Remember all those 1UP podcasts where Garnett and John would go on and on and on about Metacritic scores? Who gives a fuck about Metacritic scores? I sure don't and neither do my IRL gamer friends. Lots of GAFers do, but that's GAF being GAF. Whenever Garnett would start a sentence with "is it our responsibility as reviewers" I would groan and then fast forward.

I think you have metacritic largely backwards.
It's publishers who really care about Metacritic. That's a huge part of why WE & the press talk about it so much.

this guy needs to stop writing articles and start work on the next scribblenauts.

Parish? What does he have to do with Scribblenauts?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The problem is when you don't know the developer in question and pass judgement on a single, out of context remark. Case in point, the Fez thing.

No.

It wasn't just that remark, but how he clarified himself and all of the remarks he made on Twitter ("no but seriously, suck my dick"), and the IGF debacle. The dude is not someone I want to see succeed.

 

[jooey]

Sugiyama probably benefits in public acceptance from the obvious Wagner comparison.

"What are you whistling? Is that Sugiyama?"

 

[jbug617]

Good article. I really don't want to mix politics in with things I enjoy because it's become hard to separate the 2.

 

[wrowa]

It depends. I'm feeling uneasy when I read a book by an author with questionable views or when I listen to music by a band with equal views. When a work is accountable to a single person or to less than a handful of people, then it's hard for me to regard their art indepent from their personalities.

I don't have such problems with most games though. Usually games are being made by a large group of people, so that the views of a single member of the team usually don't reflect on the game in any meaningful way.

It's another matter when a game is made mostly by one person, though -- Fez' creators offending behavior on Twitter is something that I associate with his work and I know that it would prevent me from enjoying Fez to the fullest. While playing I'd always have in my mind that the person who created this is pretty much a self-righteous jerk.

this guy needs to stop writing articles and start work on the next scribblenauts.

I think you are confusing someone here.

 

[kai3345]

this guy needs to stop writing articles and start work on the next scribblenauts.

lolwut?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I really enjoyed this article. Kudos to Parish.

Personally I'd take it on a case by case basis. If it's a great game I must play I could probably ignore some of their views. I mean... people are people. Sometimes they say some mindbogglingly stupid things.

 

[Cartman86]

I don't know, why?

It's his hair.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I would buy a game made by Satan or Hitler or Tom Cruise if it was good.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I generally don't even consider that games are made by real, actual people. I don't know them, I don't want to know them, what do I care who they are or what they do.

 

[wrowa]

Good points and all, but I feel like the gaming press need to be reminded that .000000001% of people that play videogames don't give a fuck about this kind of stuff.

They don't need to be reminded, they are fully aware of that already. But should enthusiasts stop to care about the stuff they are passionate about just because the average joe won't care? Why is it important what your friends or any other non-gaming people think? Most people also aren't interested in critical debates about music, movies or literature -- does that mean that the people who care shouldn't critically talk about these forms of media either?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Jeremy doesn't like Xenogears, so who gives a crap about what he thinks?

 

[BHK3]

I'll pick and choose basically. I don't have much of a problem with Lorne being a truther, if he's into conspiracy theories then I'll let him. I have a few friends who like that kind of stuff, whether or not he's serious about it is up to him, I already thought he was a little loony anyway.

But if someone came out as a holocaust denier, then that's when things get different. The composer being a nationalist...is not all that bad in my head, I mean he's denying the actions of his country 70 years ago as not being that bad but it's just nationalism, he's not calling us american pig dogs or Koreans some horrible slur.

I'm not one for out of sight out of mind, I'll find out eventually. With the Fez incident, the game looks okay but if the creator is going to do something that extreme in front of an audience, then yeah that guy can fuck off for all I care.

 

[i-Lo]

This kind of has the vibes of meeting your childhood hero/es and its inherent risk of being disappointed.

 

[Corto]

this guy needs to stop writing articles and start work on the next scribblenauts.

Retronauts?

 

[voodoopanda]

When it comes to any form of entertainment, be it movies or music or video games or books, I always separate the creator and the work itself. If you start digging into who these people actually were and did and believed, you'll end up with a very short list of acceptable artists. Gotta judge a work on it's own merits, and accept that some messed up people have made some really great stuff.

If it's a case of directly supporting someone who uses that support in ways I'd disagree with, I'd try to find ways around it, like buying Used.

 

[LiK]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Santiako]

"What are you whistling? Is that Sugiyama?"

perfect

 

[DDayton]

What I did like about the article is that it made it clear that the focus was on whether or not folks should boycott a game based upon the beliefs/views/motivations/etc. of the creator -- and NOT whether or not a game is "good or bad" as a game based upon the creator him or herself.

I say this as I've run into several people who fail to distinguish between the horrible personal/political life of an individual and their creative works. Being a "lousy" person doesn't mean you can't create fantastic piece of art or craft. One can recognize the value/artistry of a creation while refusing to fund the creation.

 

[jooey]

Retronauts?

Scrotonauts? Oh uh nevermind

 

[SupraDarky]

Great article by Jeremy. I uploaded a Fez track on my YouTube channel 2 days ago and there's been some heated discussion about exactly that, so it's funny to see an article about it popping up. I personally prefer to separate the creation from the creator, just like I do with music and movies.

 

[mclem]

My attitude is simple: Just because some creators might happen to have unpleasant prejudices or attitudes doesn't give me carte blanche to have some of my own. I try to be better than that.

I say this as I've run into several people who fail to distinguish between the horrible personal/political life of an individual and their creative works. Being a "lousy" person doesn't mean you can't create fantastic piece of art or craft. One can recognize the value/artistry of a creation while refusing to fund the creation.

I'd suggest that an excellent example along these lines would be Chris Langham; British comedy actor/writer, and as far as I'm concerned one of the funniest. Not the Nine O'Clock News, The Muppet Show, People Like Us, The Thick of It: Very, very good comedy scripts / performances.

He has also been convicted of a genuinely abhorrent crime.

It's difficult reconciling those two facts.

 

[randomkid]

Yup Sugiyama's the OG par excellence of this. Nanking rape denial is so deeply fucked up you almost can't even believe it. But then there's Melody of Love dammit.

SEPARATE. SEPARATE. SEPARATE.

 

[El Sloth]

It's his hair.

this guy gets it

 

[Transhuman]

I'm not one for out of sight out of mind, I'll find out eventually. With the Fez incident, the game looks okay but if the creator is going to do something that extreme in front of an audience, then yeah that guy can fuck off for all I care.

I honestly don't understand the hubbub. The guy asked what Fish thought of modern Japanese video-gaming, and he gave his honest opinion. I don't think anyone would disagree that Japanese games aren't in their hay day. His twitter response to the controversy on the other hand was incredibly dickish, I agree, but it doesn't justify Fish being typecast as a egomaniac loudmouth racist who berates kindly timid Japanese guys.

I won't separate the creation from the creator.

If the developer is an asshole, racist, homophobe, generally unlikable person, I don't want to see them be successful. I don't want to see them reach higher prominence to spread their awful opinions.

It's not like developers openly pledge to donate towards anti-gay marriage lobbying (for instance), so unless your plan is to personally get to know every person who stands to make a profit from you buying a game and what they plan to spend royalties on, you're going to end up supporting something you don't like eventually. But for every dollar that eventually goes towards a cause you disagree with, even more will probably go towards causes you do support.

 

[billy beane]

The Fez thing is still a big deal to some people?

As for me, I'll support it if it's good. The Pianist was a great film. And I'm buying Fez tomorrow.

 

[Lancehead]

Reminds me of supporting my favourite football (soccer) club. Some of the footballers are not people I'd look up to, but on the pitch I support them no matter what.

 

[bishoptl]

Eh. I was on the fence regarding Fez in the first place, and whatisname spouting off at GDC was typically what you'd expect when you let amateur hour near a microphone. I was still probably going to buy the game.

The post-backlash/Twitter buffoonery, however? Fuck that, and fuck him - there are tons of other games I can play.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

If the creator of a game is a total dickhead, i wont give him any money

 

[Divvy]

I chose to refrain from buying Shadow Complex due to Card's involvement, and I'm pretty annoyed that I basically gave money to Sugiyama when I found about his asinine beliefs.

 

[TheShampion]

Stole this from the 1Up comments:
"If I were only allowed to read or enjoy art or listen to music made by people whose opinions and beliefs were the same as mine, I think the world would be a pretty dismal sort of a place. I love the work of many creators who self-avowedly believe or believed things that I consider to be 'fairly wretched', not to mention wrong-headed, lunatic, irresponsible or simply wrong. Worse yet: there are artists, actors, songwriters, authors, whose work I love, like or admire and who, biographers or historians tell us, actually did things that were utterly reprehensible. And worse even than that, there are all those things by Anonymous, who could have been or thought or done, well, anything, and we'll never know... " -Neil Gaiman

And I pretty much agree. Though the fact that this is hitting Fez more than it hit Shadow Complex is kind of sad to me in a way. It is like people won't forgive a person for being socially awkward but don't mind supporting a man who is atagonistic towards people due to their sexual orientation. If Fez was somehow making it so Japanese games were doing worse, maybe I could understand, but being an asshole on twitter is low on my moral priorities.

 

[Tellaerin]

My attitude is simple: Just because some creators might happen to have unpleasant prejudices or attitudes doesn't give me carte blanche to have some of my own. I try to be better than that.

That sounds like you're equating not wanting to give money to someone whose views you find objectionable with having 'unpleasant prejudices or attitudes'. Maybe I'm misinterpreting that. I hope I am.

As for myself, I'm not inclined to contribute to the financial well-being of people I consider scumbags. There are more than enough good games out there to choose from. If I'm forced to skip a few that I was interested in, I think I'll live.

 

[Nert]

I have no problem separating a creation from its creator. When I bought Shadow Complex, it was because I thought that the game looked interesting and worth the money, not because I am trying to support Card's goals.

Having said that, I do think people should help apply social pressure to discourage people from spouting awful things. Buying Shadow Complex doesn't prevent you from telling Card and people like him that they have abhorrent viewpoints.

Edit: Also, great article, Jeremy! It's always refreshing to see work like this instead of "top ten video game related cereal boxes" articles.

 

[Bowling Pin]

meh.....who cares.

I do. Plenty of others who've posted in this thread do too.

Look, I'm not able to follow the careers of most people who've worked on my favorite video games, let alone their private lives. I understand that I'm probably going to disagree with some creators I admire for their work on matters of either minimal importance or great significance. But if a game, or a movie or a book, is made by an author to promote reprehensible views, and I'm certain the proceeds of that work go directly toward funding the promotion of those reprehensible views, then I consider it my responsibility to not support that work, and denounce it. I don't care if just one coder/writer/voice actor/producer is an asshat. Only if the work as a whole is tainted by some manner of bigotry or ignorance.

That Blackwater game is a prime example, though it's less on the actual development team and more on the license itself.