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[Akai]

The other issue is the WiiU has four USB ports.
Should all four be USB3?
Or only the two in the back? Or front?
Will that confuse the average consumer?

Well how expensive would it be to have all USB3 over USB2? Or rather, what is the expense, if any, of a single USB3 over a single USB2?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

The other issue is the WiiU has four USB ports.
Should all four be USB3?
Or only the two in the back? Or front?
Will that confuse the average consumer?

all 4 would have to be changed to 3.0 to make it easy on consumers

 

[EloquentM]

how easy is this switch though?

if this was not Nintendo we were talking about I'll say why not go all out and got on Thunderbolt

we should consider ourselves lucky we have 2.0 and they came out on day 1 saying it was 2.0 Nintendo does not like change

Nintendo doesn't like change but they've always been pretty good with hardware options and accessibility (especially though hardware revisions which is technically what we might get this e3 and the wii u). If they feel 3.0 is an affordable and viable option they'll go for it.

 

[EloquentM]

Okay, forget the 360 DVD drive. I had the wrong information about that.

I have a 2TB eSATA/USB 2.0 external drive, and when I benchmarked it, the average for USB 2.0 was around 30MB/s, ranging from 20 to 40. In real world tests (copying large files) it stayed around 20MB/s. While there may be faster drives out there, developers can't assume people are going to have them. Compared to the Blu-ray-based drive Wii U has, USB 2.0 is going to be much slower. Blu-ray at 6x is 27MB/s, and 14x is 63MB/s. This could pose a problem for games that rely on streaming data, so I'm wondering if there could be some sort of caching solution in place to deal with this.

Idk, reading rates on a USB 2.0 should be faster than writing rates.

 

[japtor]

But I'm trying to envision a scenario where you'd need to touch 2 parts of the screen at the exact time and other than stuff like Rock Band and Tap Tap, 99% of the time the iPad is creating a virtual +pad and buttons, which Wii U certainly won't have to worry about. And stuff like music games are pretty much a limited compromise compared to their console big brothers.

The only really common thing I can see is for zooming in/out (would be pretty common on a map or something), the multitouch pinch/goatse gesture is just really natural for that.  Without it you're either double tapping or using +/- buttons or a zoom slider.

how easy is this switch though? 

if this was not Nintendo we were talking about I'll say why not go all out and got on Thunderbolt

we should consider ourselves lucky we have 2.0 and they came out on day 1 saying it was 2.0  Nintendo does not like change

Change controller and put extra traces and newer ports on I guess, I would assume it'd all cost more (albeit not necessarily a huge amount more, no clue on that).  The harder part would perhaps be just testing and making sure it's all working properly...I heard early implementations of USB 3.0 were kind of flakey.  I'd guess they'd stick with USB 2.0 just cause it's more of a known thing to them.

(Meanwhile Thunderbolt requires more hardware and is relatively expensive, and for now only works with Intel chipsets...and requires video output, which would complexify things further on a console)

Okay, forget the 360 DVD drive. I had the wrong information about that.

I have a 2TB eSATA/USB 2.0 external drive, and when I benchmarked it, the average for USB 2.0 was around 30MB/s, ranging from 20 to 40. In real world tests (copying large files) it stayed around 20MB/s. While there may be faster drives out there, developers can't assume people are going to have them. Compared to the Blu-ray-based drive Wii U has, USB 2.0 is going to be much slower. Blu-ray at 6x is 27MB/s, and 14x is 63MB/s. This could pose a problem for games that rely on streaming data, so I'm wondering if there could be some sort of caching solution in place to deal with this.

Pretty sure there's always caching of some sort. The "streaming" you're referring to is probably loading stuff into a cache in the first place. How much they can cache comes back to the whole amount of RAM question...

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Nintendo doesn't like change but they've always been pretty good with hardware options and accessibility (especially though hardware revisions which is technically what we might get this e3 and the wii u). If they feel 3.0 is an affordable and viable option they'll go for it.

I'm not putting my hopes on it...

to me this would be up there in me wanting it as 4GB RAM on the WiiU, I just don't think it will happen if they were going 3.0 why not say so during the first info drop at the last E3?

HDMI got listed, Blu-Ray got listed so why not say USB 3.0 if this was in their minds to do?

granted to possibility of Nintendo only listing the very minimum of specs on paper that they sure they could use so they could always upgrade the hardware before launch is good

if they listed 3.0 and ended up only with 2.0 people would be upset but and upgrade from 2.0 can only be a bonus

I just hate having yet another spec upgrade to hope for... I alway feel like a begging hungry puppy at Nintendo's feet begging them to feed me a nicer piece of meat - why can't they ever give me just the right food that makes me happy?

 

[Linkhero1]

Xbox 360 DVD is 5X to 12X, I guess depending on where on the DVD the data is.

That translates to 6.925 MB/s to 16.62 MB/s. Note that this is not "real world performance" but is what should be achievable generally.

External hard drive transfer rates five years ago in real-world tests varied wildly but could on some models average at just under 30 MB/s.

The peak transfer rate (including data and control) of USB 2.0 is 60 MB/s, so the upper limit won't go wildly higher than what you saw in that aforelinked test, but I guess there might be drives with ~45 MB/s average rates in more recent times, if you'd care to look more aggressively than I did. I don't know what the typical speed for USB 2.0 is.

This may very well be a limiting factor on the Wii U, but the original assertion of USB 2.0 being slower than the Xbox 360 DVD is certifiably false.

Thanks for the information. I don't think USB 2.0 should be a problem if that's the case. Just get the best of the best.

Okay, forget the 360 DVD drive. I had the wrong information about that.

I have a 2TB eSATA/USB 2.0 external drive, and when I benchmarked it, the average for USB 2.0 was around 30MB/s, ranging from 20 to 40. In real world tests (copying large files) it stayed around 20MB/s. While there may be faster drives out there, developers can't assume people are going to have them. Compared to the Blu-ray-based drive Wii U has, USB 2.0 is going to be much slower. Blu-ray at 6x is 27MB/s, and 14x is 63MB/s. This could pose a problem for games that rely on streaming data, so I'm wondering if there could be some sort of caching solution in place to deal with this.

I think Nintendo would have some sort of cache solution to this then. Honestly I don't know what they plan on doing.

 

[M74]

I'm sitting here trying to think of enough uses for the USB ports that you would actually need four of them. One for the HDD, obviously. Maybe one more for an add-on camera/speaker/whatever they release later on. Does the Upad recharge via a USB cable? What other uses are there for the USB ports on this console? My thought is, if USB 3.0 is being cut out because of costs, maybe they could drop one or two ports to equalize the expense. I know I never used the USB ports on my Wii.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

The only really common thing I can see is for zooming in/out (would be pretty common on a map or something), the multitouch pinch/goatse gesture is just really natural for that.  Without it you're either double tapping or using +/- buttons or a zoom slider.

Change controller and put extra traces and newer ports on I guess, I would assume it'd all cost more (albeit not necessarily a huge amount more, no clue on that).  The harder part would perhaps be just testing and making sure it's all working properly...I heard early implementations of USB 3.0 were kind of flakey.  I'd guess they'd stick with USB 2.0 just cause it's more of a known thing to them.

(Meanwhile Thunderbolt requires more hardware and is relatively expensive, and for now only works with Intel chipsets...and requires video output, which would complexify things further on a console)

Pretty sure there's always caching of some sort. The "streaming" you're referring to is probably loading stuff into a cache in the first place. How much they can cache comes back to the whole amount of RAM question...

If the bold is still true then by all means keep it away from my WiiU if they can't get it right day 1

 

[Linkhero1]

I'm sitting here trying to think of enough uses for the USB ports that you would actually need four of them. One for the HDD, obviously. Maybe one more for an add-on camera/speaker/whatever they release later on. Does the Upad recharge via a USB cable? What other uses are there for the USB ports on this console? My thought is, if USB 3.0 is being cut out because of costs, maybe they could drop one or two ports to equalize the expense. I know I never used the USB ports on my Wii.

The only thing I can come up with is a bunch of unnecessary peripherals.

 

[Rösti]

I'm sitting here trying to think of enough uses for the USB ports that you would actually need four of them. One for the HDD, obviously. Maybe one more for an add-on camera/speaker/whatever they release later on. Does the Upad recharge via a USB cable? What other uses are there for the USB ports on this console? My thought is, if USB 3.0 is being cut out because of costs, maybe they could drop one or two ports to equalize the expense. I know I never used the USB ports on my Wii.

Well, Wii has an official keyboard made by Logitech, and that features a USB mini-receiver. If Wii U gets a keyboard (and perhaps a mice as well, for MMOs) then another USB port could come in handy.

 

[wsippel]

Okay, forget the 360 DVD drive. I had the wrong information about that.

I have a 2TB eSATA/USB 2.0 external drive, and when I benchmarked it, the average for USB 2.0 was around 30MB/s, ranging from 20 to 40. In real world tests (copying large files) it stayed around 20MB/s. While there may be faster drives out there, developers can't assume people are going to have them. Compared to the Blu-ray-based drive Wii U has, USB 2.0 is going to be much slower. Blu-ray at 6x is 27MB/s, and 14x is 63MB/s. This could pose a problem for games that rely on streaming data, so I'm wondering if there could be some sort of caching solution in place to deal with this.

That's mostly filesystem/ USB stack related. It's also possible Nintendo uses parts of the internal flash as cache.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I just hate having yet another spec upgrade to hope for... I alway feel like a begging hungry puppy at Nintendo's feet begging them to feed me a nicer piece of meat - why can't they ever give me just the right food that makes me happy?

Well, what would you have Nintendo sacrifice in return for upgrading the USB? Since they're probably not going to be profiting on the systems they sell you, it's not really in their interest as a business to add on more stuff at additional cost to them but free to the end user.

I can think of some things I'd give up to get a faster usb chip, but I'm curious to hear what you'd toss out.

 

[Power Stranger]

I expect some third party support. Mostly from Japan, and more at the beginning of the generation.

When the PS4 and 720 arrive? Not so sure how support is going to look. Kinda skeptical, to be honest. So we might have friends with us at the start of the generation.. but they might be the kind that stop returning phone calls. The kind that go out on Friday night and "forget" to invite you along.. those kind of friends, haha..

So Nintendo might be telling the truth - about the first year or two. :/

It will be interesting to see how successful the Wii U is and how third party games sell on it. We may see a future where the majority of developers put the majority of time developing games for the WiiU because of factors like lower development costs, large install base, and high sales through DD and what not by the time 720/PS4 comes out.

So yeah, I can definitely see overly-ambitious hardware failing due to high development costs....I have a sneaking suspicion that Nintendo knows exactly what they're doing.

 

[HylianTom]

Well, Wii has an official keyboard made by Logitech, and that features a USB mini-receiver. If Wii U gets a keyboard (and perhaps a mice as well, for MMOs) then another USB port could come in handy.

I'm wondering how well the uPad will function as a keyboard..

It will be interesting to see how successful the Wii U is and how third party games sell on it. We may see a future where the majority of developers put the majority of time developing games for the WiiU because of factors like lower development costs, large install base, and high sales through DD and what not by the time 720/PS4 comes out.

So yeah, I can definitely see overly-ambitious hardware failing due to high development costs....I have a sneaking suspicion that Nintendo knows exactly what they're doing.

Oh yes, the financial fail rate is definitely going to continue into the next generation. I'm hoping that Nintendo is more successful in convincing some developers that maybe, possibly games are going to look quite lovely and impressive enough on their hardware without breaking the bank.

Peeking over at the PS4 spec thread, they seem to be entertaining the idea that the PS4 might be out later than anticipated. Nintendo needs to grab as much of an install base as possible in this time frame, as it could make a big difference going into the later portion of the generation.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Well, Wii has an official keyboard made by Logitech, and that features a USB mini-receiver. If Wii U gets a keyboard (and perhaps a mice as well, for MMOs) then another USB port could come in handy.

Hey, would it have to be on a separate bus? I seem to recall that USB steps down to the speed of the slowest device connected, and Keyboards tend to go really slowly.

 

[M74]

Well, Wii has an official keyboard made by Logitech, and that features a USB mini-receiver. If Wii U gets a keyboard (and perhaps a mice as well, for MMOs) then another USB port could come in handy.

I've been hoping for a virtual keyboard on the Upad screen, so as to avoid needless peripherals. That seems like the easiest and most economical way to resolve the console-keyboard dilemma.

 

[shnord]

The way I see it, a USB 2.0 hard drive on Wii U is going to perform 2x faster than the 360 DVD drive and over 3x faster than the PS3 blu-ray drive. Nintendo will probably just use that as their minimum speed range for the (pseudo-)blu-ray drive they choose. If 6x-8x is their target, that would make sense since it falls in line with typical USB 2.0 HDD speeds.

 

[TunaLover]

I'm wondering how well the uPad will function as a keyboard..

Like 3DS but with biggers keywords ;D
In fact I'm pretty excited by the Wii U browser, it should work like a charm with the subscreen.

 

[Hiltz]

Development costs on Wii U likely aren't going to be signicantly lower compared to Xbox 3 and PS4's. If anything, it just means we'll get more third-party multiplatform support at best. Heck, Iwata already stated that the costs of 3DS games are almost as much as the Wii's.

 

[BurntPork]

Any time I read "at this time" from a developer about an unreleased console, I instantly believe they're under NDA.

Not sure what the reason is for all the negativity about this quote.

He said that it won't be available, not that he can't announce it. At best, it means that it'll be a late port. "At this time," in this case, just means that he's leaving the door open for it to come at a later time.

 

[lednerg]

That's mostly filesystem/ USB stack related. It's also possible Nintendo uses parts of the internal flash as cache.

Yeah, I wonder if that 8GB flash memory rumor/leak we heard over a year ago was referring to something set aside for this purpose. It would be like how newer PCs have SSDs serving as cache for their regular HDDs, allowing for instant loading of often used programs.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Well, what would you have Nintendo sacrifice in return for upgrading the USB? Since they're probably not going to be profiting on the systems they sell you, it's not really in their interest as a business to add on more stuff at additional cost to them but free to the end user.

I can think of some things I'd give up to get a faster usb chip, but I'm curious to hear what you'd toss out.

who said I wanted USB 3.0 that bad? I don't need something else to beg for that is why I want to be happy with 2.0

If losing money is the reason to not use it then they must use it to future proof this hardware so that it can last a couple more years out there to recoup the money lost though

if you are going to lose money make sure your hardware can last for more than 4 years before you are back at spending money for something better to replace it.

So I would not be throwing things out but putting things in to make the thing a bit more future proof, if your hardware sucks in the first place losing money does not matter if no one is sees it as worth a purchasing price

I am very happy for this to be Nintendo's most costly hardware to date

 

[BurntPork]

how easy is this switch though?

if this was not Nintendo we were talking about I'll say why not go all out and got on Thunderbolt

we should consider ourselves lucky we have 2.0 and they came out on day 1 saying it was 2.0 Nintendo does not like change

Uh, Wii had 2.0. We should consider ourselves lucky that they didn't downgrade from
Wii? Plus nobody even makes 1.x anymore...

 

[Dreamwriter]

I know Nintendo's is at the start of the second day. Microsoft and Sony are on the first day. Any other big studios showing on the first day?

Nintendo's conference is at the start of the *first* day, June 5, the other two biggies are on the day before E3. Don't forget that their conferences are completely outside of E3, at different venues.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Uh, Wii had 2.0. We should consider ourselves lucky that they didn't downgrade from
Wii? Plus nobody even makes 1.x anymore...

I mean we should consider ourselves lucky to have usable USB 2.0 :3

 

[blu]

I mean we should consider ourselves lucky to have usable USB 2.0 :3

You mean we're lucky to have an industry-standard interface in the wiiU. Otherwise who would waste money putting unusable usb in their console?

 

[Man God]

Wii has a 2.0 and a 1.2, with the one closer to the edge of the console being 2.0.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Hey am I the only one that miss BY2K?

You mean we're lucky to have an industry-standard interface in the wiiU. Otherwise who would waste money putting unusable usb in their console?

NIN TEN DO

 

[BurntPork]

I mean we should consider ourselves lucky to have usable USB 2.0 :3

My response remains the same.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So with the full-year loss, Nintendo stock is down as low as it's been since early 2006. With the 3DS situation improving and betting Wii U will impress (relative to what we've normally been hearing from the Pachters of the world), I've gone ahead and bought a few dozen NTDOY. Don't blow this, Reggie!

 

[Disorientator]

Does this mean Killer Freaks shares the same physics (only?) engine as GR: Future Soldier and GR Online (and 8+ other productions) or is it talking more about a more generic framework, used as the basis?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

So with the full-year loss, Nintendo stock is down as low as it's been since early 2006. With the 3DS situation improving and betting Wii U will impress (relative to what we've normally been hearing from the Pachters of the world), I've gone ahead and bought a few dozen NTDOY. Don't blow this, Reggie!

see this is smarter than ban bets

I wish I had the monies I'll be doing this

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

So with the full-year loss, Nintendo stock is down as low as it's been since early 2006. With the 3DS situation improving and betting Wii U will impress (relative to what we've normally been hearing from the Pachters of the world), I've gone ahead and bought a few dozen NTDOY. Don't blow this, Reggie!

You stole my idea how much is it btw?

 

[Rösti]

Does this mean Killer Freaks shares the same physics (only?) engine as GR: Future Soldier and GR Online (and 8+ other productions) or is it talking more about a more generic framework, used as the basis?

I'd say it means a physics engine used in multiple projects. But that doesn't really have to mean much considering the usual high amount of parameters you can use in these engines. Even if it used in both Ghost Recon: Future Soldier and Killer Freaks from Outer Space doesn't mean these titles will be very similar to each other. Sure, there may be a similar feel to these titles but object values ought to be very different.

Also, no need to blur anything, the information is public: http://www.mickael-godard.com/fichiers/Resume_Mickael_Godard.pdf

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Development costs on Wii U likely aren't going to be signicantly lower compared to Xbox 3 and PS4's. If anything, it just means we'll get more third-party multiplatform support at best. Heck, Iwata already stated that the costs of 3DS games are almost as much as the Wii's.

The Partygames will be cheaper And Nintendo IPs, third-party multiplatform support plus Nintendo-published "3rd party exklusives" (The last Story etc.) would be good enough anyway. But i do see more than a few exclusive games from 3rds, wouldn´t have to max out the graphics and not every Game has to be AAA.

 

[Anth0ny]

Hey am I the only one that miss BY2K?

what happened? Don't see anything crazy in his post history.

 

[Shadowlink]

what happened? Don't see anything crazy in his post history.

He posted a link to a torrent site.

 

[Disorientator]

I'd say it means a physics engine used in multiple projects. But that doesn't really have to mean much considering the usual high amount of parameters you can use in these engines. Even if it used in both Ghost Recon: Future Soldier and Killer Freaks from Outer Space doesn't mean these titles will be very similar to each other. Sure, there may be a similar feel to these titles but object values ought to be very different.

Makes sense. Cheers.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

what happened? Don't see anything crazy in his post history.

He posted a link to a pirated anime or something. It's a short ban.

EDIT: Beaten.

 

[Dreamwriter]

You stole my idea how much is it btw?

$16 a share down from $30 in the last year, down from $70 in the heyday of the Wii, 2008

 

[blu]

NIN TEN DO

Is that sarcasm? I'm a bit slow today.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Hmm say, didn't NoA hire a new higher up last year? IIRC it was to replace Cammie right?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Is that sarcasm? I'm a bit slow today.

RISE TO HEAVEN

 

[GameplayWhore]

Hmm say, didn't NoA hire a new higher up last year? IIRC it was to replace Cammie right?

Cammie left in 2010. I'd hope they'd move to replace her faster than you're suggesting!

edit: Hmm, although maybe they had a lapse of a few months for that position; I guess that's possible.

 

[M74]

$16 a share down from $30 in the last year, down from $70 in the heyday of the Wii, 2008

How high do you anticipate it climbing after they release the WiiU? I'm sure it will be a profitable investment, but I just don't see it climbing all the way back to $70.

By the way, does anyone remember what the range of their stock value was during the GCN days?

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

Hmm say, didn't NoA hire a new higher up last year? IIRC it was to replace Cammie right?

They hired Denise something-or-other (Kegler I think?), but she left after about a year or so. Now they have some guy whose name I can't remember

 

[GameplayWhore]

How high do you anticipate it climbing after they release the WiiU? I'm sure it will be a profitable investment, but I just don't see it climbing all the way back to $70.

By the way, does anyone remember what the range of their stock value was during the GCN days?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=NTDOY.PK&a=10&b=18&c=1996&d=04&e=2&f=2012&g=m

Around $20 at the start of the GCN launch.

edit: It went under $9 in '03.

 

[M74]

RISE TO HEAVEN

Leave luck to Heaven?

 

[BD1]

Cammie left in 2010. I'd hope they'd move to replace her faster than you're suggesting!

edit: Hmm, although maybe they had a lapse of a few months for that position; I guess that's possible.

Scott Moffitt replaced Cammie as EVP Sales & Marketing. Here he is at CES this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0KxeHUbzk&feature=youtube_gdata_player