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Would it be possible to make an open-world game with Uncharted 3 level of detail?
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Betta Lines
Member
Even if it maintained all the quality of the scripted sequences and seamlessly tied the story together with thousands of variations of cutscenes in the most ambitious game development of all time?
diffusionx
Gold Member
Probably next generation.
The open world games of today look way better than the Xbox's or PS2's linear games.
BUT... next generation's linear games will look better than next generation's open world games.
The open world games of today look way better than the Xbox's or PS2's linear games.
BUT... next generation's linear games will look better than next generation's open world games.
gaming_noob
Member
Jett's posted images are outrageously good. I have a used copy that's still shrinkwrapped from EB games. I'll have to try it when I get a new PS3.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Completely possible, even on the PS3/360.
The costs and time to do so would make it completely unfeasible.
The costs and time to do so would make it completely unfeasible.
No it isn't.
Yeah, I just realized that. Up until a few hours ago, I only managed to get past the tutorial section, so I was assuming. My mistake.
archangelmorph
Member
Last Of Us
Betta Lines
Member
Last of Us is open world? Wat.
Para bailar La Bomba
Banned
Come on guys. Just Cause 2 comes very close. I only played it briefly on X360 before I bought it on PC but it was close enough to Uncharted standard.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Just Cause 2 is ridiculously gorgeous - maybe the best looking game this gen as a total package IMO. But no, it doesn't come close to Uncharted 3 in terms of character models, texture detail, complexity of the environment, etc.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Really? With the janky animation, pre-baked lighting, crummy textures and Identikit buildings? I mean I love JC 2, it's a technical marvel, but a graphical showpiece it ain't.
Para bailar La Bomba
Banned
Fair enough. Maybe I'm conflating it with the PC version.
sublimit
Banned
It's way too empty.
Sentenza
Member
"Janky animations" are mostly an artistic issue, they have very little to spare with technical limitations of linear vs open world.
Para bailar La Bomba
Banned
Really? Your definition of empty is not the same as mine then. The biggest criticism of JC2 was the fact they recycled too many models but empty it was not.
Even the desert was "busy".
NinjaBoiX
Member
I didn't cite a reason for the animations being janky, I simply pointed out that they are one of the many factors as to why it doesn't look as good as U3. As I say, the game is technically staggering, just not graphically speaking. Having said that, it still a damn fine looking game.
Nope.
While it's true that Uncharted is constantly streaming, it can optimize the loading cause there are only a couple of directions where the player can go at any time: forward and backwards. Sometimes not even that.
If the world is open, that optimization goes out and you need to load more stuff which means less detail.
There's also the part where an open world will mean that from time to time, you have to seek an asset that's not normally in the area (what if the enemies are tailing you from from far away with a tank that's never been in the, say, beach area? Uncharted knows exactly what enemies can show up in every area at all times. Open world does away from that.
While it's true that Uncharted is constantly streaming, it can optimize the loading cause there are only a couple of directions where the player can go at any time: forward and backwards. Sometimes not even that.
If the world is open, that optimization goes out and you need to load more stuff which means less detail.
There's also the part where an open world will mean that from time to time, you have to seek an asset that's not normally in the area (what if the enemies are tailing you from from far away with a tank that's never been in the, say, beach area? Uncharted knows exactly what enemies can show up in every area at all times. Open world does away from that.
sublimit
Banned
I meant it looks way too empty in comparison with Uncharted's environments.
In my OP i was referring if it's possible for a game as open and big as Skyrim to have the amount of detail you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1hZFRe8cH4
Just Cause 2 looks great for current gen open world standards but it obviously lacks detail in comparison with Uncharted games.
GTA4 doesn't look that good. Sure, it's technically impressive, but Crysis and Crysis 2 are far better looking.
Funny thing is that large open environments are more challenging on a technical level, unless I'm mistaken.
Not that I don't agree with you that UC3 looks better than JC2.
Sentenza
Member
Still, the amount of detail and unique textures all across the city's map in GTA IV is simply astonishing.
I have yet to see something coming even remotely close.
Assassin's Creed also looks visually superior. I'd say it's one of the best looking open world games out there.
I said the new mod makes it look good; especially for a game that came out in 2007. The question the thread asked was about a level of detail. Rockstar killed it with the level of detail in Liberty City that has yet to be done since, or probably until, GTA V.
Sentenza
Member
AC's "world" isn't nowhere near as diversified as Liberty City in GTA IV.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
There would be compromises. Texture res might be lower, poly counts as well.
But... uh yeah. Completely possible. If you've got the time and money to do it. The issue isn't the tech. It's the artist salary. I mean you're looking at 2-3 years just to do an Uncharted sized game. Think about how long it would take doing something literally thousands if not millions of times larger. With unique textures, and models across the expanse.
You'd probably have to design it as constantly streaming chunks, but there's nothing really stopping anyone in the tech we have today... aside from the money necessary to fund it.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Oh hey!
It's also going to be just as likely next-gen.
The art assets on open-world games will be higher res than even Uncharted's... but they are still going to be covered in repeating textures, at a lower res than a title like Uncharted on the PS4. Because it will cost too much to do it differently.
It's also going to be just as likely next-gen.
The art assets on open-world games will be higher res than even Uncharted's... but they are still going to be covered in repeating textures, at a lower res than a title like Uncharted on the PS4. Because it will cost too much to do it differently.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
If someone wanted to spend 6 years and $400 million to fund it they could do it.
Portugeezer
Member
Time and money wouldn't create a miracle.
That level of fidelity is too much for consoles to render in an open world, heck it's almost too much for Uncharted already, which is why there are so many tricks involved in making it look good as a linear game.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
No, uncharted is beautiful because almost every particular of a level is unique, open world games reuse assets to compose the world and save memory, a fallout 3 with the fallout 3 graphics but without reused assets is clearly impossible.
Example:
A normal open world game map contains millions of instances of hundreds of object(trees, rocks, books, houses etc) with a medium definition(models and textures), obviously developers fully use the amount of ram present on the console.
An open world game with u3 level graphics would have not a lot of instances of thousands or millions of objects with better model, textures, shaders etc, you can imagine the increase of necessary resources for a map of the same dimensions of a normal open world game, but even with the same instances/objects ratio of a normal open world game the amount of necessary resources would be insane.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And entirely possible if money and time permitted.
The issue is the money and time necessary to make it happen. And designing it intelligently. GTA4 was half way there as it is. Constant data streaming. GTA4 is really hard on 360 disc drives because of that. Now again, there will be compromise. I doubt texture resolution would stand at the same fidelity.
Designed right, there should be little issue with getting close enough to fool all but the trained eye. Time and money are the largest factors.
And next-gen consoles aren't going to change that.
Uncharted 3 reuses assets too... There were only like 13 different rocks that made up the mountains in the chase level when you're on the back of those trucks iirc. It is totally possible to make a game with that level of detail but it comes down to time and money to make enough assets where the world can be filled to look fresh to the player. Since I'v never programmed for an open world game I am not sure how big of a variable RAM is in the equation. I can tell you though from my understanding of 3d modeling game assets and scene creation it isn't really the main problem. Time, money and design are.
i'm ready for them to mix it up and go into a more open world setting. the uncharted forumula is starting to get a little stale imo
sublimit
Banned
So for this to happen it basically needs a big publisher to be ambitious enough in order to take the risk...which means that it will never happen.
Much of the tech power offered by next gen consoles will go to waste simply because the publishers will never be ambitious enough to risk a big investment for a game like that.We will keep seeing the same linear games like Uncharted only becoming a bit prettier and the same open world games like Skyrim become bigger but still re-using the same assets and feel empty compared to current gen linear games.
Really makes me excited for next gen.
I honestly don't think there is a studio with the money or experience except R*
It really isn't a worthwhile risk. Many open world games are already pretty satisfying to look at. Why would they possibly spend another 4-6+ years working on and designing such a huge project?
Look at RDR. It easily is on par with with Uncharted 2 in terms of visual tech. RDR reuses far more assets though and the whole world is much more simple because of it's scope.
It's already been said but realistically a top game with smaller environments will always pack far more detail than any open world game.
It really isn't a worthwhile risk. Many open world games are already pretty satisfying to look at. Why would they possibly spend another 4-6+ years working on and designing such a huge project?
Look at RDR. It easily is on par with with Uncharted 2 in terms of visual tech. RDR reuses far more assets though and the whole world is much more simple because of it's scope.
It's already been said but realistically a top game with smaller environments will always pack far more detail than any open world game.
sublimit
Banned
I think that's because we are kinda used to have low expectations.I guess some would also call those as "realistic expectations."
But do our expectations really equal the worth of the money we spend for a day-one game today?
For example movies cost way much more to be made but the price for a ticket or a Blu-ray disc is much cheaper than a game...and they also suffer from piracy and the used market (game industy's eternal excuses).
Again, no, constant loading has its limits too, one thing is the constant loading of a lot of medium quality assets, another thing is the constant loading of high quality assets, and remember that costant loading is not free.
Uncharted is a corridor game, you have to load a corridor at time, open world games require the loading of the surroundings, i don't have to tell what are the conseguences of a greater number of better quality assets to be stored on memory right?
It's almost like the difference between an on-rail shooter and a fps.
Every game reuse assets, who more, who less.
Chase level is a fast level, one time fast levels use certain tricks to make the background look good and remain fast, but they are never as good as slow levels, why didn't nd use more rocks or add other different things if they could?
sublimit
Banned
Impressive but not really "there".
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Yes, there are inherent differences in the tech involved. I don't think I've ever denied that.
But in an onfoot (generally) type of game that Uncharted is, if ND had the money and manpower. You're telling me it would be impossible for Drake to run off the beaten path? Core idea is identical. Streaming bits and pieces of the level in as the game plays. The issue is manpower and money needed to realize a massive world at that caliber.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Yes. A game like Uncharted, they don't waste resources modeling stuff that you don't see. So that town you are fighting through actually is just one long 'tube' - the roofs aren't modeled, the backsides of the houses aren't modeled, etc. That saves resources that are then spent on what you do see.
With an open world game, you need to model the roof because the game will have you jump on top of it. It needs to model the backside of the house, because you might turn a corner and go to the other side. Etc.
Yes the code idea is identical, but the difference between streaming a straight-line tube and a giant circle around the player is all the difference that matters. Uncharted 2 would frequently lock the door behind you after a cutscene because it needs to start streaming the next tube. Open world games do not have that luxury because you can just turn around.
UH LOL. it's actually the opposite.
TUROK
Member
Doesn't seem like you understand how streaming works. Streaming in high quality assets like those of Uncharted takes a massive toll on bandwidth and memory. So while it MIGHT be possible, the experience would be akin to playing the first Turok on N64 (really short draw distance and lots of LOD pop-in), except with a lot more load stutters.