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Wii U Community Thread

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The E3 demo looked like a current gen game, through and through. That doesn't mean it looked bad, but I'm not seeing anything that makes me go bonkers.

To me it looked slightly better than the games at the Capcom booth, but definitely nothing that will make you say WOW.

and I was at E3 playing all of Capcoms games and Zombi U was the other game I spent the most time watching/playing.
 
I agree. Certain 3rd party racing games use analog triggers to accelerate and/or drift. The GCN had analog triggers so they would be needed on Wii U if we get GCN VC games or ports.

Why don't you just use the analogue sticks as accelerate and break and just use the pad as a normal steering wheel by rotation? The triggers can be used as gears and the secondary triggers can be used for clutch and other main options. However for GC games I agree that something will need to be done. If it is cheaper to add analogue triggers for legacy compatibility then great. If they are releasing all their gc games as new play control then it might not be needed. Personally they would be a good addition. Maybe someone should ask nintendo for clarification as cost wise it seems a very minor addition compared to retooling old games to support new play control.
 
Lair's biggest problem is that it was a 2001 launch game that everyone bought for the graphics and the license with a new generation's graphics and no license.
 
Hey, Rogue Leader was fun.

As long as they kept it simple, their games tended to be fun, just rarely very deep.

Lair's biggest problem is that it was a 2001 launch game that everyone bought for the graphics and the license with a new generation's graphics and no license.
I haven't played it since I don't have a PS3, but their GCN games generally controlled well and were fun, just really basic in mechanics.

Is that comparable to Lair?
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The scary thing about Lair isn't necessarily Factor5's design issues or them betting on the wrong horse, but that it was to be one of many games published by Sony. It flopped, Sony bailed on the contract. Superman was cancelled because Brash went out of business.

Factor5 was arguably one of first independent developers of the generation to show how brutally unforgiving the market climate is, and how the decisions of others can spell doom for an entire studio.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
WOW! That looks amazing! :O

There is something about lightining in the wii u games that I really like.

Amazon.fr has Fifa 13 and Need for Speed: Most Wanted listed for Wii U. With the Criterion guy listing the Wii U on his linkedin profile I linked yesterday it's the second hint pointing to a NfS MW Wii U version >

I would really like to see big efforts from EA on the Wii U. Both for sports and racing games they focused the "real" iterations for the HD market during the Wii period, so I hope they can develop properly for the Wii U, now that the hardware allow this approach.
I know that for Dead space and so on there still a problem in terms of demographic, but for sports and racing, I mean...those are casual genres, so do the things right on the Wii U, EA!
 
nintendo-land-hangout-540x305.jpg

Why are the Miis floating?

Seriously, there are (almost?) no shadows; it makes the whole thing feel like the "floating Chinese officials" meme.

Seriously. Skyward Sword suffered from the same thing. There were character shadows, but they were very very faint.

It's strange that everything else looks so nice, but they left out their shadows.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Seriously. Skyward Sword suffered from the same thing. There were character shadows, but they were very very faint.

It's strange that everything else looks so nice, but they left out their shadows.
I think there might be shots from (at least) two builds floating around. I noticed the missing mii shadows on the very first shot I saw, but then all the later shots were fine.
 

Terrell

Member
I think there might be shots from (at least) two builds floating around. I noticed the missing mii shadows on the very first shot I saw, but then all the later shots were fine.

Yeah, the trailer they showed at the press conference was littered with shadowing from both objects and Miis. And the lighting was... well, it was THERE. In a game featuring Miis, where very few people who intend to play it are likely to care. As with most Nintendo games, it's all about the small little touches.

Speaking of little touches, on top of actual proper bending limbs.... is that one Mii character wearing a bow tie? Does anyone remember being about to outfit a Mii with a bow tie?!
 

Hero

Member
The scary thing about Lair isn't necessarily Factor5's design issues or them betting on the wrong horse, but that it was to be one of many games published by Sony. It flopped, Sony bailed on the contract. Superman was cancelled because Brash went out of business.

Factor5 was arguably one of first independent developers of the generation to show how brutally unforgiving the market climate is, and how the decisions of others can spell doom for an entire studio.

Yeah to me this is one of the saddest closings of the gen. RS2 was and is one of the most beautiful looking games and that was GCN hardware. Would've loved some Wii stuff from them.
 
The "Nintendo Curse" sounds to me like a lot of these close partner studios were much more reliant on the critiques and design assistance from Nintendo than they previously thought.

Don't forget that many of those studios also had a pretty constant buyer base. Once leaving Nintendo they mostly weren't able to recruit a new buyer base fast enough.

But that's a free market for you.
 

AzaK

Member
So a big chain retailer here in NZ (Dick Smith) is listing Wii U at NZD$799. Generally consoles here are roughly twice the US dollars. Of course this is likely just a placeholder but if its NZD$799 that's madness for that console. I paid that for my PS3 ($1100 at launch I think) and Wii was NZD$500 at launch.

It also lists the release date here for December 20. We got the Wii about two weeks after the US when that launched.

Edit:mightyape.co.nz says 30th Nov for release.
 

Fabrik

Banned
Guys, I'm starting to recover as well. I even played Wii Sports Resort over the week-end and had fun. Life is good. I'm Nintendo's bitch!
 

DrWong

Member
Edit: This one?

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6727889

Not viewable by outsiders it seems, I got the link from your earlier post.
This one yes, the Wii U stuff is on the "Competences" list.

A question to the tech people: do we know how Nintendo is technically handling the retro-compatibility with Wii games? Is it software or hardware based?

Fun fact: yesterday I was reading an E3 report from an investment management company, delivered to people from the industry I guess. Nothing sensible in this report, it's more an overview with some guesses. So what's fun is the chapter dedicated to the Wii U and it says, about the hardware:
Purported leaks, however, suggest the chips has 3 cores, there 3GB of aggregate L2 RAM cache, up to 3GB of main memory, a 120 MHZ audio DSP, 802.11 b/g/n Wifi, 512 MB SLC NAND for the system and 8 GB MLC NAND for apps, and has a bridge to host PC with file system emulation. Two USB ports are on the front, and two on the back.
I think the experts mixed their "sources"...^^
 
Guys, I'm starting to recover as well. I even played Wii Sports Resort over the week-end and had fun. Life is good. I'm Nintendo's bitch!
LOL. That other thread has me seriously thinking about playing Wind Waker again. Might even do Twilight Princess before Wii U's release

Also for the DD, is the price going to be the same or a little cheaper than retail? Like for NSMB U?
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
This one yes, the Wii U stuff is on the "Competences" list.

A question to the tech people: do we know how Nintendo is technically handling the retro-compatibility with Wii games? Is it software or hardware based?


I could be wrong but up to now it seems that it will be hardware based, that means no modify (upscale) of old Wii games, but full backwoard compatibility with all softwares and peripherals (it becomes a Wii, once turned into backward compatibility mode, as the Wii did with GC titles and accessories)
 

z0m3le

Banned
I could be wrong but up to now it seems that it will be hardware based, that means no modify (upscale) of old Wii games, but full backwoard compatibility with all softwares and peripherals (it becomes a Wii, once turned into backward compatibility mode, as the Wii did with GC titles and accessories)

This was because the hardware clocked down to gamecube speeds for complete compatibility, but Wii U has multiple cores, so only 1 has to clock down to it, leaving the menu system and other features free, especially since Wii games only require a small amount of ram and other resources... As for the GPU, we keep speculating that the Wii U's GPU has fixed function shaders built onto the chip, when we say this, we are speculating that flipper is duct taped right onto the die of Wii U's GPU, and it's fixed functions are also used for Wii U games, especially the ones that deal with lighting.

What this means, is that Wii U MIGHT still retain it's Wii U features while playing Wii and even Gamecube games, since it would be a simple matter of lowering the clock rates of these parts lower, while keeping the other resources for the Wii U OS. The technology could easily allow running apps off the tablet while you play Wii games on your TV, or vise versa.

(we haven't gotten confirmation about how the system will emulate Wii's hardware, but currently we do think Wii hardware does exist inside the Wii U)
 

DrWong

Member
The reason I'm asking about retro-compatibility is I found a Wii U reference somedays ago on a former AMD guy Linkedin profile page, about Flipper. I think someone already reported it on a previous WUST but I'm not so sure. In any case here's the thing...

Engineer
ArtX Inc

1997 – 2000 (3 years)

Designer and architect for an integrated graphics northbridge. Designer and architect for the flipper graphics chip used by the Nintendo Gamecube, wii, and upcoming wii U console systems.

I think the guy edited his profile not to much time ago, adding his Wii U stuff on his 1997 entry. Does it confirms something?
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
This was because the hardware clocked down to gamecube speeds for complete compatibility, but Wii U has multiple cores, so only 1 has to clock down to it, leaving the menu system and other features free, especially since Wii games only require a small amount of ram and other resources... As for the GPU, we keep speculating that the Wii U's GPU has fixed function shaders built onto the chip, when we say this, we are speculating that flipper is duct taped right onto the die of Wii U's GPU, and it's fixed functions are also used for Wii U games, especially the ones that deal with lighting.

What this means, is that Wii U MIGHT still retain it's Wii U features while playing Wii and even Gamecube games, since it would be a simple matter of lowering the clock rates of these parts lower, while keeping the other resources for the Wii U OS. The technology could easily allow running apps off the tablet while you play Wii games on your TV, or vise versa.

(we haven't gotten confirmation about how the system will emulate Wii's hardware, but currently we do think Wii hardware does exist inside the Wii U)

So, are you saying that the most probable thing will be that Wii's games will run as wii's game, but probably you'll be able to access OS system and other Wii U's functions while playing Wii's games?
 

disap.ed

Member
The reason I'm asking about retro-compatibility is I found a Wii U reference somedays ago on a former AMD guy Linkedin profile page, about Flipper. I think someone already reported it on a previous WUST but I'm not so sure. In any case here's the thing...



I think the guy edited his profile not to much time ago, adding his Wii U stuff on his 1997 entry. Does it confirms something?

Yes, WiiU = 3 Wiis ducttaped together.
 

z0m3le

Banned
So, are you saying that the most probable thing will be that Wii's games will run as wii's game, but probably you'll be able to access OS system and other Wii U's functions while playing Wii's games?

Yes, that should be completely possible since currently we expect no Wii U hardware to be tied up completely when Wii games are being played. Though Wii U games can't be played beside it, as those expect all cores and flipper to be available for their games.

But internet, and other Wii U apps might be completely functional while playing Wii/GCN games, maybe even VC games if they are using the Wii hardware for that as well. Personally hoping for netflix features while VC is being used directly on the controller screen.
 

TunaLover

Member
I hope Team Twiizers brings its hacker magic to Wii U, I'm sure some day someone will able to do a Wii loader with upres feature, like Dolphin.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Yes, that should be completely possible since currently we expect no Wii U hardware to be tied up completely when Wii games are being played. Though Wii U games can't be played beside it, as those expect all cores and flipper to be available for their games.

But internet, and other Wii U apps might be completely functional while playing Wii/GCN games, maybe even VC games if they are using the Wii hardware for that as well. Personally hoping for netflix features while VC is being used directly on the controller screen.

Thanks for the update!

Meanwhile: is any Gaffer joining the European post-E3 events? Like the one in London where Digital Foundry was, or the one in Paris few days ago?
Tomorrow they should visit Italy and I should join the event, so I'll be able to share impressions also here on Gaf.
 

lednerg

Member
I hope Team Twiizers brings its hacker magic to Wii U, I'm sure some day someone will able to do a Wii loader with upres feature, like Dolphin.

Got a lot of doubts about that, especially if the have GHS helping with the OS. Also, since the Wii was basically an overclocked Gamcube, hackers already had years of experience with it from the get go. I wish them luck though; I got quite a lot of use out of Wii Media Center on my SD TV.

I mostly just want to be able to use the Gamepad on my PC, but I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a while. It'll probably require special firmware for some WiFi card, since they're going to be using some proprietary protocol to deal with lag. It's not like the Wiimote, which was just Bluetooth.
 

Penguin

Member
While watching Takamaru's Ninja Castle demonstrated, I noticed one thing that was somewhat disappointing. The ninja stars are not actually animated on the gamepad. WTF? I hope they can correct this by launch, as it really breaks the illusion and makes the game feel cheap.
 

MDX

Member
While watching Takamaru's Ninja Castle demonstrated, I noticed one thing that was somewhat disappointing. The ninja stars are not actually animated on the gamepad. WTF? I hope they can correct this by launch, as it really breaks the illusion and makes the game feel cheap.


I dont share your sentiments.
I dont see the point of animating something that you wont even look at while playing.
Your hand is covering the screen, and you're are making such rapid movements that the animation would have to simulate something that you cant see.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Well are in the Negative Zone, so you'll find a lot of interesting reads until Nintendo... shares more info

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...hoices-fix-the-wii-u-marketing-or-get-screwed

I don't disagree with a lot of the article, but I still don't like reporting on half-information (mostly in regards to the online services, and being squashed by next gen)

The analysis of their confused and weak presentation is dead on, but the bandwagon jumping about "Nintendo still has no online at all!" is getting tiresome. But that seems half due again to Nintendo, and half due to people not paying attention: on one hand, the Nintendo Direct video did suggest Wii U will have a lot of online social functionality, including some honest innovations. On the other hand, Nintendo themselves is not clarifying at all how the full online suite of Wii U is laid out and how everything interacts. At the primary E3 conf, they gave the direct impression that Miiverse was the only online functionality the system has, and the only interface there is - Iwata directly contradicted this during the Direct presentation when he noted that a conventional 'home screen' was available on the controller and could be swapped to the other screen, but naturally, they still have nothing to show whatsoever to end the confusion, fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Nintendo's problem remains that they're incredibly tight fisted about giving information away, and seem to feel they must carefully shape image and anticipation as if pruning a bonsai. Unfortunately, that method is fast becoming patronizing and frustrating. Even if Nintendo does have their shit together behind the scenes, and is working on a solution that addresses most of the issues people have, their refusal to be forthright is causing everyone to write them off.
 
I dont share your sentiments.
I dont see the point of animating something that you wont even look at while playing.
Your hand is covering the screen, and you're are making such rapid movements that the animation would have to simulate something that you cant see.

I agree it's not a huge deal, but I do think that it would enhance the overall experience to see those stars moving. While I have yet to actually play the thing, it seems like you'd be able to pick up the gamepad screen in your field of view somewhat as you're playing, but maybe not. In any case, I can't see what would be terribly difficult in throwing some basic animation on there.
 

MDX

Member
Upon seeing the videos coming out of E3, the one thing that impressed me most about ZombiU's visuals was the lighting. Odd that I didn't really see anyone talking about it.


I definitely noticed a lot more dynamic lighting and shadows in ZombiU than
games presented for the HD twins this E3. Im not sure if they cant do it, but
it seems to come off effortlessly for the WiiU.

But thats the issue of diminishing returns.
Adding more lights sources doesn't mean an image will look better.
Its how you apply it that makes art.

I think what ZombiU suffers from is a distinctive art style and a lack of creativity and variety in the zombie design that makes the game come off generic looking. I dont know how early this build was, but I hope they have some nice surprises for us in the visual area. Because I do like the concept of the game.

Killer Freaks seemed to have that special look, though as a game, it might not have been as interesting.
 

MDX

Member
I agree it's not a huge deal, but I do think that it would enhance the overall experience to see those stars moving. While I have yet to actually play the thing, it seems like you'd be able to pick up the gamepad screen in your field of view somewhat as you're playing, but maybe not. In any case, I can't see what would be terribly difficult in throwing some basic animation on there.

Its funny because in the 2011 demo reel they did have animation for it:

2:06
http://youtu.be/4e3qaPg_keg?t=2m6s

Maybe its still being worked on.
 

Penguin

Member
The analysis of their confused and weak presentation is dead on, but the bandwagon jumping about "Nintendo still has no online at all!" is getting tiresome. But that seems half due again to Nintendo, and half due to people not paying attention: on one hand, the Nintendo Direct video did suggest Wii U will have a lot of online social functionality, including some honest innovations. On the other hand, Nintendo themselves is not clarifying at all how the full online suite of Wii U is laid out and how everything interacts. At the primary E3 conf, they gave the direct impression that Miiverse was the only online functionality the system has, and the only interface there is - Iwata directly contradicted this during the Direct presentation when he noted that a conventional 'home screen' was available on the controller and could be swapped to the other screen, but naturally, they still have nothing to show whatsoever to end the confusion, fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Nintendo's problem remains that they're incredibly tight fisted about giving information away, and seem to feel they must carefully shape image and anticipation as if pruning a bonsai. Unfortunately, that method is fast becoming patronizing and frustrating. Even if Nintendo does have their shit together behind the scenes, and is working on a solution that addresses most of the issues people have, their refusal to be forthright is causing everyone to write them off.

Like I said, I agree with a lot of the article, but I don't like the.. if Nintendo hasn't said it, it must not exist reporting.

But as you said, the blame lies solely on Nintendo's shoulders.
 

DrWong

Member
Thanks for the update!

Meanwhile: is any Gaffer joining the European post-E3 events? Like the one in London where Digital Foundry was, or the one in Paris few days ago?
Tomorrow they should visit Italy and I should join the event, so I'll be able to share impressions also here on Gaf.
I did, in Paris las t week.

If he was only there until 2000, he'd probably be pretty out of the loop.
Yes, perhaps but his profile also says >
Senior Fellow
AMD

Public Company; 10,001+ employees; AMD; Semiconductors industry

2007 – May 2012 (5 years)

Chief architect for the "shader next" design currently in use in AMD's latest generation graphics products. This design provided significant area and power reduction over the original design through massive simplification and streamlining of the underlying instruction set.
Senior Fellow
ATI/AMD

Public Company; 10,001+ employees; AMD; Semiconductors industry

2000 – May 2012 (12 years)

Hardware designer and architect for a number of high end graphics products and game consoles. Chief architect for the R300 chip that used an innovative partial tiling method to give a 2x to 4x pixel rate advantage over the competition. Many other chip families were derived from this design. One of the pioneers of the DX9 graphics API which created a paradigm shift in photorealism, and revolutionized the graphics industry.

So he was at least in the AMD/ATI loop until May. Enough to be aware of how his previous contribution was used?
 

Linkhero1

Member
So I've made up my mind and realized I don't care that Nintendo didn't show anything at E3 and that at least 25% of third party games coming to the system would be good enough for me. I'm getting one at launch if there's a black unit available. I am no longer angry or bitter.
 
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