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[lostinblue]

SS is fine, but it felt sheltered; too streamlined and guided when it came to exploration.

I'm sure Nintendo can do better if they pinpoint exactly what was missing (or get koizumi to work on it!); but they really ought to do it.


Still, Zelda's often invest in something in detriment of the rest; majora mask was sidequests/hub city leading it to have less temples, wind waker was the world and graphics/engine technology (that lasted thoughout 3 games) that lead it to cutting some dungeons and adding the tiresome triforce quest as a means to lengthen the game, TP was dungeon design that resulted in a hollow feeling world with hyrule town being early beta a year before when they delayed it; Skyward Sword was all about merging paths to temples with temples into a seamless super-packed world, it sacrificed secret exploration/secret caves, the ability to discover things you're not supposed to and the overworld for it though.

All the things sacrificed... shouldn't, but for the most part it's the compromise for a Zelda to ship. I just hope the Zelda formula doesn't warp into SS's low points, which is how "on-rails" it felt in the end seeing I really liked how secret packed and arbitrary the previous games exploration worked, it just felt like freedom. Its still a very nice game, probably the most balanced Zelda ever, seeing we can't exactly say it didn't have enough content in either front.

 

[Aostia]

Looks like FIFA 13 info is coming out right now- seems possible the EA Sports embargo has expired or will be expiring soon.

where did you find this news? was is specifically about Wii U version or in general?

 

[schuelma]

where did you find this news? was is specifically about Wii U version or in general?

Here is a thread

Doesn't look like anything about the Wii U version has been specifically mentioned.

 

[Aostia]

Here is a thread

Doesn't look like anything about the Wii U version has been specifically mentioned.

So, should be buried our hopes about Wii U version now?

 

[schuelma]

So, should be buried our hopes about Wii U version now?

Not at all.

 

[Nibel]

So, should be buried our hopes about Wii U version now?

Nope

They are interested in the platform and will bring FIFA13 to the Wii U

 

[Aostia]

This is becoming ridiculous.

 

[Effect]

So, should be buried our hopes about Wii U version now?

Hope for one if you want however just be prepared for it not to come. Until there is actually footage of a Wii U version, of any game, count on it not existing. Even if it's announced. Games can be canceled at any time or simply were never going to be made but the developer wanted their name out there. Third parties always talk a good game at the start a Nintendo systems life remember. Just don't be suckered in by it.

 

[prag16]

If I can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p YouTube feeds on a 23.5 inch LED computer monitor from 10 feet away, I will able to tell the difference on a 42 inch LCD television.

Bull. And in any case youtube feeds are a bad example since both 720 and 1080 feeds are extremely extremely compressed.

http://i.bfads.net/u/resolution_chart.png

^ That chart might not be 100% true for everybody. But it says that 7.5 feet away from a 42 inch screen is the distance at which the benefit of 1080p begins to become noticeable.

Maybe a select few people can tell the difference on a 37 inch screen from 12 feet. But for everybody else I tend to agree with the guy who said there's a placebo effect involved.

Unless all you random neogaf posters are all in the top 0.01% of the population in terms of visual acuity...

I have "pretty good" vision, around 20:30. 3-4 feet away from a 40 inch screen I can definitely notice a difference. At 12 feet, I can't even BEGIN to be able to tell.

 

[The_Lump]

Nope

They are interested in the platform and will bring FIFA13 to the Wii U

I'm quietly praying for an identical version, with the radar, tactical readouts/substitutions/statistics and free kick mechanics assigned to the pad.

I'm quietly confident that wont be the case.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Studio to begin prototyping new ideas for next-gen console by the end of 2012

Sydney developer Nnooo has become the first studio in Australia to receive approval to work on the Wii U.

The firm has previously worked on Nintendo titles such as WiiWare launch game Pop, MyLifeCollected and EscapeVektor: Chapter 1.

The studio is currently developing DSiWare augmented reality RPG Spirit Hunters and 3DS and Vita game EscapeVektor, both expected to be released by the end of the year.

"We're thrilled to receive developer approval for this exciting new console," said Nnooo creative director Nic Watt.

"We can't wait to see what the console is capable of and already have a number of ideas we'd like to experiment with."

He added: "We're very close to finishing Spirit Hunters Inc and EscapeVektor, We'll be showcasing the games at Gamescom in Cologne in the middle of August. Once these games are completed we'll be prototyping some ideas for the Wii U to get a feel for what we can do.
“We've already had a quick play with the hardware and everyone in the studio is super impressed by the GamePad and the capabilities of the Wii U itself."

Link

 

[10k]

I can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p sitting two feet away from my 24" monitor and sitting 69 inches away (hehe) from my 40" LCD. There is a noticeable difference. Especially on a PC game where you play the game at 1080p from the start and then turn it down to 720p.

 

[radio_apeshot]

Hey. I was out if town fir a few days. Had no chance to check this thread. Any news? What happened with the EA sports event? Its over 20 pages for me to read and I am at work right now. Thank you all!!

 

[Dreamwriter]

Bull. And in any case youtube feeds are a bad example since both 720 and 1080 feeds are extremely extremely compressed.

http://i.bfads.net/u/resolution_chart.png

^ That chart might not be 100% true for everybody. But it says that 7.5 feet away from a 42 inch screen is the distance at which the benefit of 1080p begins to become noticeable.

Yeah, that chart is BS, especially since it doesn't have any information at all about where the data came from. Think of it this way, can you tell the difference between a TV picture and reality (which of course has atom-sized "pixels") from 15 feet away? Not according to that chart. If you extrapolated that chart to the point of where the moon is, even accounting for its immense size, it should still be less than a pixel. But I kinda see a lot more detail in the moon from my naked eye than one pixel

It's not really correct to think of how many pixels the eye can see from a certain distance, what distance does is degrade the image that you are seeing. If the image starts with more detail and sharpness, it will still have that much more detail and sharpness from further away - you of course won't be seeing every pixel of 1080p, but you'll be seeing more detail than you would from a 720p image at the same distance.

 

[10k]

GGRRRRRRROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Was this posted yet?

Wii U might be released in November according to GameStop release sheet



Source

Shocking neeeeews!

Fake! Or I can show this list to my friends at EB and see if the SKU's actually make something show up lol.

 

[10k]

Hey. I was out if town fir a few days. Had no chance to check this thread. Any news? What happened with the EA sports event? Its over 20 pages for me to read and I am at work right now. Thank you all!!

Nintendo bought Activision and EA. Sega is coming back in the console business. Microsoft and Sony merged.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Wii U might be released in November according to GameStop release sheet

Source

Shocking neeeeews!

I like how every game gets its title explicitly listed save for "A Super Mario Bros. game".

 

[Pineconn]

Nintendo bought Activision and EA. Sega is coming back in the console business. Microsoft and Sony merged.

....and then were bought by Nintendo!

 

[Meelow]

....and then were bought by Nintendo!

^This also Valve is entering the console race.

And about the Bing comment...

This is from Gaming Industry the same website that said the Wii U is weaker than the PS3/360 and Activision isn't supporting the Wii U, this site never says anything good about Nintendo, they just put lies and negativity, who knows if they aren't lying again just to get views.

 

[Apophis2036]

Of course. I'm just not aware of how much of an issue the resolution bump caused back then. Could have been more of an issue for all I know.

I just think, for this next generation at least, we aren't going to see 1080p become the standard because at the moment the processing cost outweighs the visual benefit for a massive portion of the userbase.

There are still games which are upressed to reach 720p, such is the burden of actually outputtung that resolution natively compared to smaller resolutions.

I think the biggest factor in games staying 720p next gen will be heat.

Also to Nintendo's main audience (kids / casual gamers) the difference between 720p and 1080p is non existent, to Joe Public 'HD is HD'.

At E3 2011 Reggie kept banging on about 'this is 1080p', 'we are now 1080p', in reality i don't think he even knew the difference between 1080p native and 720p native upscaled to 1080p HDTV's.

It's a massive difference, over twice the detail as other people have said but it takes a hell of a lot of hardware grunt and a lot of cooling to pull off graphically impressive games at 1080p / 60fps for current gen games nevermind next gen games which will be graphically superior in almost every way.

All in all i think A.I., game size and graphical details will be improved next gen but all three consoles will still run games in 720p native resolution upscaled to 1080p.

From a Nintendo fans perspective we should just be glad to finally have games in HD and they are native 720p, not the SD upscaled to 720p, then upscaled again if you had a 1080p HDTV like a lot of the big PS360 games this gen.

 

[Meelow]

I'm a Nintendo fan and I'm not a kid or casual, so...

 

[Apophis2036]

I'm a Nintendo fan and I'm not a kid or casual, so...

Neither am i but the majority of their customers are, just look at the sales of Mario Galaxy vs NSMB on Wii for a single example.

 

[Meelow]

Neither am i but the majority of their customers are, just look at the sales of Mario Galaxy vs NSMB on Wii for a single example.

You mean a series that is for everyone that sold amazingly well.

 

[Apophis2036]

You mean a series that is for everyone that sold amazingly well.

No I mean the more core version of Mario sold around 16 million compared to the 26 million the more casual version sold.

Look up the sales figures for all the more core games on the Wii like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Prime 3 ect, they all pale in comparison to the big name 'casual' games.

Anyway that wasn't really the point of my post lol..., i don't think you would find a lot of people who would disagree that Nintendo have always appealed to kids, families and more casual gamers as opposed to the more hardcore gamer, all the Wii did was swing the percentage much more in the favour of the casual, kid, family market.

I would say maybe 25 million out of the 95 million Wii consoles sold were to more hardcore gamers, the other 70 million console were to kids, casuals and family orientated consumers.

You can clearly see from the start of the Wii U's life that they are in no way about to abandon those customers with games like NSMB U, Nintendo Land, Rayman, Sing, Just Dance 4, Lego City, Warioware, P-100.

Only ZombiU, AC3 and to a much lesser extent Pikmin 3 are aimed at core gamers.

Wii U is very much the Wii 2 in my eyes, the continuation of innovative controls, a long way from cutting edge hardware and tons of games that appeal to the massive, lucrative 'mass market'.

 

[Meelow]

No I mean the more core version of Mario sold around 16 million compared to the 26 million the more casual version sold.

Look up the sales figures for all the more core games on the Wii like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Prime 3 ect, they all pale in comparison to the big name 'casual' games.

Anyway that wasn't really the point of my post lol..., i don't think you would find a lot of people who would disagree that Nintendo have always appealed to kids, families and more casual gamers as opposed to the more hardcore gamer, all the Wii did was swing the percentage much more in the favour of the casual, family market.

I would say maybe 25 million out of the 95 million Wii consoles sold were to more hardcore gamers, the other 70 million console were to kids, casuals or family orientated consumers.

You can clearly see from the start of the Wii U's life that they are in no way about to abandon those customers with games like NSMB U, Nintendo Land, Rayman, Sing, Just Dance 4, Lego City, Warioware, P-100.

Only ZombiU, AC3 and to a much lesser extent Pikmin 3 are aimed at core gamers.

Wii U is very much the Wii 2 in my eyes the continuation of innovative controls, a long way from cutting edge hardware and tons of games that appeal to the massive, lucrative 'mass market'.

New Suoer Mario Bros isn't casual, casual games are easy, NSMB is hard.

 

[Apophis2036]

New Suoer Mario Bros isn't casual, casual games are easy, NSMB is hard.

Ok.

 

[PhantomR]

No I mean the more core version of Mario sold around 16 million compared to the 26 million the more casual version sold.

Look up the sales figures for all the more core games on the Wii like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Prime 3 ect, they all pale in comparison to the big name 'casual' games.

Anyway that wasn't really the point of my post lol..., i don't think you would find a lot of people who would disagree that Nintendo have always appealed to kids, families and more casual gamers as opposed to the more hardcore gamer, all the Wii did was swing the percentage much more in the favour of the casual, kid, family market.

I would say maybe 25 million out of the 95 million Wii consoles sold were to more hardcore gamers, the other 70 million console were to kids, casuals and family orientated consumers.

You can clearly see from the start of the Wii U's life that they are in no way about to abandon those customers with games like NSMB U, Nintendo Land, Rayman, Sing, Just Dance 4, Lego City, Warioware, P-100.

Only ZombiU, AC3 and to a much lesser extent Pikmin 3 are aimed at core gamers.

Uh....ok. Games like Mass Effect 3, Tekken Tag Tournament, Arkham City, Trine 2, Ninja Gaiden 3, Injustice, and Aliens Colonial Marines are not aimed at core gamers?

 

[Meelow]

Ok.

But it's true lol.

 

[Earendil]

Neither am i but the majority of their customers are, just look at the sales of Mario Galaxy vs NSMB on Wii for a single example.

facepalm.gif

 

[donny2112]

Skyward sword wasn't perfect (seemed to have too much padding mainly) but it's puzzles were great. And my problem with the hints was that they gave too many.

I agree, Skyward Sword had some of the best puzzle and dungeon design in Zelda history, albeit sometimes hit and miss in some areas. But first time I've heard a complaint about the game not giving enough hints.

It could be how I'm playing the game. There are literally several physical days between one time picking up the game and the next time. The specific incident in my mind (because I just played it some more last night) was the Lanryu Mines where you have to activate the last key for the door to open. There was an uncrossable sand area, and the puzzle solution was to 1) be in the present, 2) kill one of those annoying electric snail creatures near the sand, 3) cross over the sand on its carcass shell, 4) cross back over on ledge and push crate to allow climbing back up, and then 5) going back in the past to put the electric balls in to power the gate. Whereas in game time, it had only been a few puzzles back where the same "ride the dead carcass across the sand" mechanic had been used, it'd been a week or two for me, so it had totally slipped my mind. Went to the in-game hint system and actually asked for hints, and the hints were completely useless.

If you recall the original patent for what became the Super Glide mode in Mario Galaxy/NSMB, the patent was for showing puzzle solutions in a Zelda game, so I was expecting the in-game hint system to be the same and came away extremely disappointed in that regard.

Anyway, had to go to an online guide, but this was after having spent 30 minutes trying to fly the beetle over there to push the electric balls into the device directly/activate the button. As to the dead carcass riding idea, had previously wasted 10+ bombs trying to roll them to kill those snails without success in this room, so had adopted a pattern of just leaving them alone. Figured that if it was important, there's no way Nintendo would make it that hard to actually kill them.

This is not the first time in playing this game that I've either been disgusted at the time-wasting needed in a puzzle or in the obtuseness of a final puzzle solution. Reminds me more of Master Quest's puzzle solutions in their non-straight forwardness. Makes me not want to come back quickly to playing it again, which leads to more incidents like this where unfamiliarity with the recent puzzles leads to frustration in a current puzzle.

Will finish the game, because it's Zelda. It has to be better than this. But each time I come upon one of these obtuse solutions, it reminds me that this series is in desperate need of a reboot. :/

 

[MadeInBeats]

Interview: Vigil Games - Darksiders II


...

PS: There's a Wii U version that's coming out later; how's that progressing?

HD: It's going well. Obviously we see builds pretty regularly, and from what they're doing with the game, we're pretty happy with it, yeah.

PS: It's got the same feature set as the other versions, right?

HD: Oh yeah! It's the same game, but then obviously we'll be taking advantage of the unique power that the Wii U has to offer us. It's in our best interests to get the most out of that.

PS: What sort of things are you doing with the Wii U GamePad?

HD: Well, we can't go into it in any detail. People have already seen that, heard about the fact that we're going to use it from an inventory point of view. That's all we've talked about. Allowing players to access stuff on the fly rather than jumping in and out of the menu, they can actually see the choices right there on the GamePad. I mean, that's one small thing, but we're going to be using it in a lot more interesting ways as well. That's just one small part of it.
...

~ PushSquare

 

[DekuLink]

New Suoer Mario Bros isn't casual, casual games are easy, NSMB is hard.

In a way it's a bit "casual". Short levels, easy to understand gameplay, family-friendly co-op.
I think you'll find a lot more "casual" gamers that own NSMB Wii than those who own Galaxy.

I guess that's perhaps his point.

 

[Sadist]

There is a more "core" version of Mario? Come on son. NSMB Wii sold as much as it did because it's a 2D platform games. The 2D games have always been more popular compared to Mario's 3D outings.

And man, they still can't talk about the Wii U version? (regarding Darksiders II) That's crazy.

 

[DeviousAngel]

I think easy or hard are not the right words. NSMB is... accessible? It can be played by everyone. Casual players can pick it up easily. The more experienced players will get more out of it in the end by exploring every nook and cranny. It's the same for almost every Mario.

 

[Lenardo]

The problem for defining is

what is a core gamer? there IS no definition.

what is a core game? not a clue, again no true definition. there are games that appeal to everyone, there are games that appeal to kids, to teenagers, to adults, to boys, to girls, etc. a truly great GAME appeals to everyone, that way it gets the most sales.

nintendo has proven Time and Time again this past generation that it's games are not "core" are not "genre specific" are not "hardcore" etc. but who do they get to buy their games?

EVERYONE. period end of discussion. because their Games appeal to more than a subset of the population that plays a specific genre of games, teens, kids, adults, boys, girls, etc ALL play nintendo games, which is why overall this past generation, Nintendo has kicked Everyone's ass software sales wise.

i would say that NSMBWII is more of a "core" game than COD or any other fps game. but that is me, i CANNOT play FPS games, they make me ill.(motion sickness)

 

[Nibel]

Play the later levels in NSMB Wii - not those first worlds through which you can run through.

Game can be bastard hard. And it's awesome.

 

[10k]

Play the later levels in NSMB Wii - not those first worlds through which you can run through.

Game can be bastard hard. And it's awesome.

Play world 9 by collecting all star coins and tell me that NSMB Wii isn't hardcore. Nibel is on the money here.

 

[Nostremitus]

Imagine going back to the 90s and trying to tell a gamer that Mario games aren't "core" games...


I just find it hilarious that one of the oldest and most successful franchises in history is even in question. The Mario (edit: 2D sidescroller) games were some of the first "core" games. My mind is officially blown...

 

[Pineconn]

There was an uncrossable sand area, and the puzzle solution was to 1) be in the present, 2) kill one of those annoying electric snail creatures near the sand, 3) cross over the sand on its carcass shell, 4) cross back over on ledge and push crate to allow climbing back up, and then 5) going back in the past to put the electric balls in to power the gate. Whereas in game time, it had only been a few puzzles back where the same "ride the dead carcass across the sand" mechanic had been used, it'd been a week or two for me, so it had totally slipped my mind. Went to the in-game hint system and actually asked for hints, and the hints were completely useless.

That was a brilliant ass puzzle. I remember feeling giddy after solving it since we had to think a little. The game isn't bad because you couldn't figure it out easily, however. Fault your own brain.

 

[chris3116]

No I mean the more core version of Mario sold around 16 million compared to the 26 million the more casual version sold. Look up the sales figures for all the more core games on the Wii like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Prime 3 ect, they all pale in comparison to the big name 'casual' games.

Anyway that wasn't really the point of my post lol..., i don't think you would find a lot of people who would disagree that Nintendo have always appealed to kids, families and more casual gamers as opposed to the more hardcore gamer, all the Wii did was swing the percentage much more in the favour of the casual, kid, family market.

I would say maybe 25 million out of the 95 million Wii consoles sold were to more hardcore gamers, the other 70 million console were to kids, casuals and family orientated consumers.

You can clearly see from the start of the Wii U's life that they are in no way about to abandon those customers with games like NSMB U, Nintendo Land, Rayman, Sing, Just Dance 4, Lego City, Warioware, P-100.

Only ZombiU, AC3 and to a much lesser extent Pikmin 3 are aimed at core gamers.

Wii U is very much the Wii 2 in my eyes, the continuation of innovative controls, a long way from cutting edge hardware and tons of games that appeal to the massive, lucrative 'mass market'.

You are saying that Mario is now a "core" (Galaxy) and a "casual" (NSMBWii) franchise. So you're saying that Super Mario Bros 3 is casual. Because all the 2D Mario including New Super Mario Bros Wii are accessible to everyone and by that you're saying it's casual.

Your theory is very flawed. What is for you a core game?

 

[donny2112]

Fault your own brain.

No. Brain's fine. Hint system seems to be pointless in Skyward Sword, and that hasn't been the first puzzle I thought was obtuse in its solution. It's like they designed some of the puzzles in this game for Master Quest veterans, as opposed to their usual method of designing it for everybody. Am used to some third-party games having this lack of clues as to how to solve a puzzle, but it's disheartening to see Nintendo go this route.

Edit:
Again, might've been fine if I had played this room shortly after doing the same mechanic earlier in the level, but since it was a number of days later, would've been nice for the hint system to be applicable to that room.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The casual / core thing has really muddied the waters this generation and made conversation difficult. Problem is I use the terms myself sometimes as a shortcut just because so many people are basically familiar with what they get at. But it's problematic.

It seems the whole thing was really invented as a desperate attempt to explain what the hell was going on with the Wii - and used by some people to invalidate the Wii's success, by framing this new form of 'casual' gamer as someone who isn't a real gamer (the true faithful) and thus not a 'threat' to the self image gamers have.

But of course, nearly any game can be played 'casually' and nearly any game can be played i n a way that's 'hardcore'. There are hardcore Bejeweled players out there who will wipe the floor up with any l33t 20 year old brah who thinks he's a real gamer because he only uses game pads with thumb sticks.

I think, with 2D Mario, and 2D games in general, it could merely be an issue of accessibility. It takes less time to get to 'the fun part' and so it's more enjoyable for a wider range of people. The key thing is, accessibility doesn't automatically mean 'causal'. 2D shmups are easy for anyone to understand but can be some of the most difficult games on Earth. 2D Mario can be extremely hard and some of the most complex platforming around.

A lot of people really misunderstood the entire point of the Wii at the start of this gen by buying into the derogatory propaganda about how casual = weenie poo for old ladies. Wii was really about returning a sense of accessibility to gaming for the masses. Wii Sports gets quite hard if you play it for real, with a rather great dynamic difficulty system. Most brahs who flailed around with a Wii for 30 minutes and then quite never appeared to realize stuff like that.

The problem with 3D Mario (from a mass market perspective) is that it simply takes a lot longer to learn and become able to play at a competent level if you're unfamiliar with 3D games. It's rewarding in that there's a lot of interesting and fun game mechanics native to its 3D nature. But this is why Nintendo has been trying VERY hard to figure out a way to streamline the 3D experience. Mario Galaxy 2 introduced many presentational and structural elements of 2D Mario to coax people into it. Super Mario 3D Land, in the opinion of even many hardcore Mario players, is the most intuitive fusion of 2D and 3D so far, and the easiest to get up to speed in. (3D Land's sole flaw is that the designers were so afraid of scaring off new people too quickly, that the front half of the game is too easy. Fun as hell, but far too easy by any standard.)

Imagine going back to the 90s and trying to tell a gamer that Mario games aren't "core" games...


I just find it hilarious that one of the oldest and most successful franchises in history is even in question. The Mario (edit: 2D sidescroller) games were some of the first "core" games. My mind is officially blown...

And don't forget, before NSMB, MANY long time gamers had been talking about 'why won't Nintendo make any new 2D games'. The return of 2D Mario games (and side scrollers in general) was something pined for by the hardcore gaming sect, who viewed the abandonment of 2D as shortsighted.

So 2D Mario comes back, and we see just how big a market there really is for 2D games. That there's a point to the concept of a 2D game. That things don't have to be 3D (mechanically) just for the sake of it.

Except now that 2D has succeeded more than 3D, 2D is 'casual'? Where's the sense in this.

 

[ArynCrinn]

It could be how I'm playing the game. There are literally several physical days between one time picking up the game and the next time. The specific incident in my mind (because I just played it some more last night) was the Lanryu Mines where you have to activate the last key for the door to open. There was an uncrossable sand area, and the puzzle solution was to 1) be in the present, 2) kill one of those annoying electric snail creatures near the sand, 3) cross over the sand on its carcass shell, 4) cross back over on ledge and push crate to allow climbing back up, and then 5) going back in the past to put the electric balls in to power the gate. Whereas in game time, it had only been a few puzzles back where the same "ride the dead carcass across the sand" mechanic had been used, it'd been a week or two for me, so it had totally slipped my mind. Went to the in-game hint system and actually asked for hints, and the hints were completely useless.

If you recall the original patent for what became the Super Glide mode in Mario Galaxy/NSMB, the patent was for showing puzzle solutions in a Zelda game, so I was expecting the in-game hint system to be the same and came away extremely disappointed in that regard.

Anyway, had to go to an online guide, but this was after having spent 30 minutes trying to fly the beetle over there to push the electric balls into the device directly/activate the button. As to the dead carcass riding idea, had previously wasted 10+ bombs trying to roll them to kill those snails without success in this room, so had adopted a pattern of just leaving them alone. Figured that if it was important, there's no way Nintendo would make it that hard to actually kill them.

This is not the first time in playing this game that I've either been disgusted at the time-wasting needed in a puzzle or in the obtuseness of a final puzzle solution. Reminds me more of Master Quest's puzzle solutions in their non-straight forwardness. Makes me not want to come back quickly to playing it again, which leads to more incidents like this where unfamiliarity with the recent puzzles leads to frustration in a current puzzle.

Will finish the game, because it's Zelda. It has to be better than this. But each time I come upon one of these obtuse solutions, it reminds me that this series is in desperate need of a reboot. :/

Where I can agree is that Nintendo didn't do a great job of introducing a particular puzzle mechanic, maybe a couple different variations that were relatively simple, and then build upon them in clever, more complex and creative ways. Which I think would be the far more satisfying and organic way to "teach" the player. A lot of the puzzle design, not all, but a lot of it seemed just tossed together or in service to a dungeon theme or just out of left field. It didn't have a natural sort of build up to a lot of it, which made it less "man, I can't wait to try that again" and more "glad I figured that out, because it was a hassle and don't want to do it again". I also think Zelda needs to work toward a design that offers and encourages experimentation with multiple options to solve each puzzle and sequence break a lot.

I would also like to see more emphasis on the action and combat, with a totally different combat system be introduced.

And don't forget, before NSMB, MANY long time gamers had been talking about 'why won't Nintendo make any new 2D games'. The return of 2D Mario games (and side scrollers in general) was something pined for by the hardcore gaming sect, who viewed the abandonment of 2D as shortsighted.

So 2D Mario comes back, and we see just how big a market there really is for 2D games. That there's a point to the concept of a 2D game. That things don't have to be 3D (mechanically) just for the sake of it.

Except now that 2D has succeeded more than 3D, 2D is 'casual'? Where's the sense in this.

Well, my main complaint with modern "2D Mario's" is that they are no longer real "2D games", their 2.5D with less emphasis on pixel perfect controls and physics. Leading to a more slippery feel and level design that can't accommodate any real pixel perfect accuracy in the controls, and by proxy level design which isn't designed to take advantage of that. Maybe I'm just a old guy who loved The Lost Levels, SMW and SMB3, but I'd love to see Nintendo pull a Mega Man 9 out of the hat and give us a proper 2D Mario, maybe with a cool new pixel artstyle. Unfortunately, I think I'm in a minority and NSMB sells more than well enough to render my opinion useless, but all the same I'd take a Mario with real precise controls and level design over the slippery 2.5D Mario's any day.

I mean, Nintendo could theoretically create a 2.5D Mario that does do this, but I doubt it's a priority these days, and again sales disagree with me. I think DKCR came probably the closest to capturing a precision control platformer that is 2.5D, but even that wasn't as pixel perfect as something from the old days. So all in all, my wish is for a real 2D Mario, with old school pixel perfect precision control based on D-pad movement, with level design that is built for it and a great new pixel art style.

 

[Nibel]

The casual / core thing has really muddied the waters this generation and made conversation difficult. Problem is I use the terms myself sometimes as a shortcut just because so many people are basically familiar with what they get at. But it's problematic.

It seems the whole thing was really invented as a desperate attempt to explain what the hell was going on with the Wii - and used by some people to invalidate the Wii's success, by framing this new form of 'casual' gamer as someone who isn't a real gamer (the true faithful) and thus not a 'threat' to the self image gamers have.

But of course, nearly any game can be played 'casually' and nearly any game can be played i n a way that's 'hardcore'. There are hardcore Bejeweled players out there who will wipe the floor up with any l33t 20 year old brah who thinks he's a real gamer because he only uses game pads with thumb sticks.

I think, with 2D Mario, and 2D games in general, it could merely be an issue of accessibility. It takes less time to get to 'the fun part' and so it's more enjoyable for a wider range of people. The key thing is, accessibility doesn't automatically mean 'causal'. 2D shmups are easy for anyone to understand but can be some of the most difficult games on Earth. 2D Mario can be extremely hard and some of the most complex platforming around.

A lot of people really misunderstood the entire point of the Wii at the start of this gen by buying into the derogatory propaganda about how casual = weenie poo for old ladies. Wii was really about returning a sense of accessibility to gaming for the masses. Wii Sports gets quite hard if you play it for real, with a rather great dynamic difficulty system. Most brahs who flailed around with a Wii for 30 minutes and then quite never appeared to realize stuff like that.

The problem with 3D Mario (from a mass market perspective) is that it simply takes a lot longer to learn and become able to play at a competent level if you're unfamiliar with 3D games. It's rewarding in that there's a lot of interesting and fun game mechanics native to its 3D nature. But this is why Nintendo has been trying VERY hard to figure out a way to streamline the 3D experience. Mario Galaxy 2 introduced many presentational and structural elements of 2D Mario to coax people into it. Super Mario 3D Land, in the opinion of even many hardcore Mario players, is the most intuitive fusion of 2D and 3D so far, and the easiest to get up to speed in. (3D Land's sole flaw is that the designers were so afraid of scaring off new people too quickly, that the front half of the game is too easy. Fun as hell, but far too easy by any standard.)




And don't forget, before NSMB, MANY long time gamers had been talking about 'why won't Nintendo make any new 2D games'. The return of 2D Mario games (and side scrollers in general) was something pined for by the hardcore gaming sect, who viewed the abandonment of 2D as shortsighted.

So 2D Mario comes back, and we see just how big a market there really is for 2D games. That there's a point to the concept of a 2D game. That things don't have to be 3D (mechanically) just for the sake of it.

Except now that 2D has succeeded more than 3D, 2D is 'casual'? Where's the sense in this.

Very good post and great read! May I ask if you write for a website or something? You are one of the very few people whose posts I read every time.

 

[Aostia]

Casual/Core fight is the worst aspect of this/last gen. I really hope it fades soon.
That said: EA's no news on Fifa is getting ridiculous. THQ Darksiders denial of Wii U details are even worst (due to the fact that they already announced the game...):

- What sort of things are you doing with the Wii U GamePad?
- Well, we can't go into it in any detail.


http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2012/07/interview_vigil_games_darksiders_ii


Man, what a mess this Wii U...

 

[Kouriozan]

Casual/Core fight is the worst aspect of this/last gen. I really hope it fades soon.
That said: EA's no news on Fifa is getting ridiculous. THQ Darksiders denial of Wii U details are even worst (due to the fact that they already announced the game...):

- What sort of things are you doing with the Wii U GamePad?
- Well, we can't go into it in any detail.


http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2012/07/interview_vigil_games_darksiders_ii


Man, what a mess this Wii U...

And we're getting closer to the launch each day, this is crazy.

 

[Nostremitus]

Marketing spin from PS360 had a lot to do with the "core/casual" mindset. The market is saturated with shooters(FPS,TPS) and anything that isn't in that one genre is being considered casual. I've seen people calling all sports games casual(Madden specifically)... It's really odd. One genre should not be looked at to define all of "core" gaming.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Don't know if this has been asked, but out of interest; Ubi said it costs 1mill euro to port games to Wii U, anyone what sort of costs involved in porting to PS3 from X360 lead, or even what it might have cost to port CODs to Wii?

 

[Hiltz]

I haven't read much about P-100 but how similar is it too Pikmin? I see a Pikmin-like health circle around the tank.

Oh and what about some Pikmin gifs

It bares some similarities to Pikmin, in that you control a group of characters that attack together and the circle health bar appears around targeted enemies. That's about it from what we can tell.

 

[Apophis2036]

In a way it's a bit "casual". Short levels, easy to understand gameplay, family-friendly co-op.
I think you'll find a lot more "casual" gamers that own NSMB Wii than those who own Galaxy.

I guess that's perhaps his point.

Thanks, at least someone got it lol...