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PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash
- Thread starter onQ123
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Haters will always hate bro. Its plain as day the PS3 out powers 360 when utilized.
phosphor112
Banned
Anyway... back on topic... this is probably better suited for someone like patsu or StevieP, but why isn't a "cell 2.0" a good idea? I mean it wont happen because of IBM, but what if a successor was possible through AMD (HSA, power consumption, two things amd are amazing in)? I mean.... shouldn't it be better suited for a console than an x86? What are they going to use that x86 for?
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
That's not my argument.
My argument is Cell it's not a good console CPU.
My argument is a strong integer CPU+strong FP unified shader GPU is way better than a hybrid CPU+weak Pixer+Vertex Shader GPU.
My argument its PS4 will be better, more efficient and cheaper without Cell.
My argument is a strong GPU renders Cell's SPE redundant silicon.
My argument is not Cell is shit, it's there are better options.
It's this way my english clear enough?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Cell is a terrific CPU not exactly suited to game code. Blu-Ray did increase the costs of manufacturing the PS3, but as shown by many a 360 title the extra storage space would have been welcome.
RSX isn't weaker than Xenos, just less versatile, but yes the split ram pool on top of an unoptimized OS led to the PS3 effectively having too esoteric and limited a memory setup. A unified pool 512MB of GDDR3 or XDR would have been preferable, but impossible at the time.
And the magic Sony 1st parties achieved was through two factors.
1. Time
2. Budget
Apparently BF3 runs better on PS3?
I guess Skyrim does too...
In any case lol at sony fanboys using examples of first party developers utilizing ultra expensive tailored engines for the ps3 to "prove" ps3 is more powerful.
It proves Sony are willing to throw away money. Has been pretty obvious to most over the last 8 years.
I guess Skyrim does too...
In any case lol at sony fanboys using examples of first party developers utilizing ultra expensive tailored engines for the ps3 to "prove" ps3 is more powerful.
It proves Sony are willing to throw away money. Has been pretty obvious to most over the last 8 years.
You may have a point if they were the only studio doing that. But they are not. Guerilla and Santa Monica both created games that are some of the best in class graphically (on consoles). Now, I find it incredibly unlikely that Sony is somehow able to hire all the best designers in the industry, and leave the horde of developers on the 360 side unable to do the same.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
No, every other dev was trying to make the games run across PC's, 360, and PS3. Meaning the engines couldn't delve too deeply into the idiosyncrasies of each system.
The uncharted games have a 2 year development schedule. With comparatively modest team sizes compared to say, call of duty. I don't see how your argument applies.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
shinra-bansho
Member
Uncharted 1 and 2 were on two year development cycles and budgets of $20M which don't seem particularly long nor expensive in the grand scheme...
Although Killzone 2 and God of War ran up quite the bill.
Although Killzone 2 and God of War ran up quite the bill.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I doubt the cost includes engine development, but this is a fair point.
More likely it is their singular focus that truly set them apart.
a Cell 2 would probably be amazing but thanks to GPGPU's & APUs the same goals will be reached.
Such ignorant fanboyism will only lead to embarassment, because BF3 on the PS3 has better image quality and anti-aliasing than the 360 version and they both run at a comparable framerate, struggling at different places based on the composition of the engine load. Mentioning it in the same post as Skyrim shows that you know nothing of significance regarding this matter.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
AMD amazing at power consumption?
Are you serious?
It's not x86 or PowerPc set what makes a CPU shine. x86 was a bad architecture to start off, tbh. It's just AMD/Intel developed their architectures way beyond IBM was capable/interested at consumer level. That's why Apple switched to Intel. PowerPC was better, but IBM ceased to develop it.
Gaming wise AMD fusion it's much more useful for a console device since it have an ACTUAL GPU into it.
Although it's far from achieve that heterogeneous computing AMD claims, once finished in some years, it would be the perfect SOC every manufacturer is looking for. Name it Intel, AMD, Nvidia or ARM.
Cell was a step, but it need to be redone from scratch to meet todays standards. That would be expensive and unneeded. Last thing Sony need right now.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Under the same circumstances.
Time+Money.
And you are forgeting some other studios that had time+money but failed. How many studios did PS3 closed?
shinra-bansho
Member
Lol, now studio closures are the Cell's fault?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I do agree that using some variant of Cell today makes much less sense, what with the advent of GPGPU, but back then it was a good option (technologically, not financially) as they needed to knock the BR playback out of the park, and with that CPU they could do that. It's easy to forget how horrible BR players were back then in comparison to PS3 despite being far more expensive and using dedicated decoding hardware. On top of that, due to its decent programability and raw crunching power, it has proven to be well suited for some gaming tasks that were not even on the horizon when the hardware launched.
The biggest shame here is how difficult/impossible it will be to emulate PS3 software on a PS4 architecture.... but despite that, and the work process with Cell now being mostly figured out by all devs, there probably isn't a competitively viable and cheap enough upgrade option available to continue going that route.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I've tried to keep him in the realm of realism.
I'd argue that it was an unsustainable model adopted by the entire industry that killed a lot of stuidios.
googleplex
Member
This literally makes no sense, How else would you judge how powerful hardware is without optimized software?
Cell+ RSX > Xenon+ Xenos. This shits is not rocket science.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
I never said that. Learn to read. I suggested the idea that there still may be certain tasks that Cell will be more suited for, and its shame that the next PS4 cpu wont be better in every regard. Obviously the PS4 CPU will be overall much more powerful. Its like they take 3 steps forward but 1 step backwards.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
There is no need to. Most of PS3 software is multiplatform. And this is not like old days. Sony have the source code to easily port the code to any other system later on. Even RSX is a DirectX 9c compliant card.
TBH, I don't think modern systems will be as easily emulable as old ones. Not in the current amateurish way.
Time+Money kills the profit.
PSX got the market coming from nowhere thanks to efficient and cheap hardware + easy SDKs for developers.
Sames apply to 360.
Sega lost the market with an expensive hardware + no SDK at all with Saturn.
Sony destroyed their profit in the same way.
There won't be such step back.
Every program will run better on PS4, every game will look better in every aspect on PS4. Win-win.
bgassassin
Member
By how well a console handles less-optimized multiplats obviously. How can you not see such sound logic?
googleplex
Member
The fuck? There where PS2 ports that ran like shit on the Xbox. I guess that means PS2 was more powerful!!!
That's not how software works....
edit: Never mind your sarcasm flew right over my head.
This is patently not true.
If it were, and the PS3 had a Xenon CPU instead of CELL, your argument would mean the console would have better performance. When in fact in every instance of the PS3 excelling graphically is when devs make use of CELL to do things that aren't possible on the 360.
funkystudent
Member
So looking at the mess happening in this thread there hasn't been any new ps4 rumors / leaks in quite some time?
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well that is all true.
Until MS pulled out games like Forza 4, Gears 3, and now Halo 4. And now MS has come full circle with PS Exclusives graphically.
All you're telling me is that Sony's devs busts their asses to make the PS3 sing despite the cons of the hardware. The same way they did with the PS2
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Here's the issue, sony required that the ps3 outperform the xbox 360 from the very start to justify the price range, because of this their development teams were given extremely large budgets and very long development times. Remeber the ps3 drought at the beginning of the generation? If sony failed to maintain a graphics quality at launch that could compete with what the 360 was offering then much of the hype generated by their cgi bullshot e3 trailers would disappear along with sales. Games released early failed to compete with the 360 titles because of restraints created by the platform.
MS on the otherhand was focused on trying to deliver a consistent experience on their console, for users and developers, especially with rrod fiasco. Along with the better development tools it meant that developers could be lazy with 360 development and not push the hardware as much as sony first party was forced to do. Microsoft pushed out games faster and on smaller budgets, making sure developers were happy and costs were dropping, and games were being released consistently, letting the quality improve over time.
In my opinion, the ps3 has began to stagnate with regards to the graphical fidelity, killzone 2 and uncharted 2 looks as good as anything I've seen released on the ps3, where as games on the 360 i continue to notice vast improvments.
Chun-Li On A Bike
Banned
Gears 3, Forza 4? No... Just no. These two games aren't even the best looking 360 games, how can they look better than better looking PS3 exclusives like Uncharted 3, God of War III?
BF3 looks a lot better on 360 than Gears 3 does, oh well.
Halo 4 from what I have seen is already looking a bit too shiny and strange to me for some reason. Prefer Reach from what I have seen.
bgassassin
Member
It can't be decided that long ago. I heard a rumor that PS3's GPU might be Cell-based.
I think the price took care of that on its own.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
still no concrete rumors on anything?
Tripolygon
Banned
Sometimes its just better to ignore people.
Chun-Li On A Bike
Banned
Seems we are too far off on PS4 to have anything substantial. If there is big news, hope to see a new thread
smh Come on Chun Li
I know this is a Playstation thread....
Well whatever, your opinion. Carry on with this topic.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
360 graphics haven't improved much since gears of war in 2007. You see? I can say bullshit statements like you too.
Sure if you ignore games like God of War 3 and The Last of Us. And just what are these 360 games with 'vast improvments' you're talking about? Gears 3? lol ^^
Can we stop this console wars crap please? While it's true that the 360 had better bang for its silicon buck (especially with regards to its gpu) the consoles are nearly identical in their output, with advantages and disadvantages on both. The ps4 and Durango will actually have similar drawbacks and advantages, but in the opposite direction by the sound of it.
This might be a stupid question, but how can you know which would be the best bang for your buck without knowing how much buck they'll cost?
EDIT: Actually, I think I misunderstood the post, never mind.
Yeah I think you did. I was referring to this console wars crap that involved the 2 current generation hd consoles. Enough is enough. They're both nearly identical in output.
specialguy
Banned
I agree. One of the big unreported stories of this gen is the fact in 2008, with KZ2 and Uncharted 2, PS3 was way ahead. But today, everybody else has caught up.
You could really tell with KZ3, GAF exploded with every KZ2 news and the internet was laden down with gif's. For Kz3 the hype was 1/10 as much and it could easily be boiled down to the fact it was not a major graphical enhancement but basically looked like KZ2, which by that time was not leaps and bounds ahead of other shooters.
Chun-Li On A Bike
Banned
Some of you may have a point if you were speaking about Banjo and Halo Reach. Gears 3 has way too many issues to even be considered anywhere near PS3 top games.
Overall, the truth and sad aspect of visuals wars have caused a lot of games to suffer. Xbox fans really pushed that visuals made games better in a sense. This caused sony to believe that better visuals is what everyone wanted and to a extent it is but the depth and design of games has greatly suffered more.
As I look back at games for memorable design from PS2 to PS3... surely I can think of many instances where ps2 games were bigger, longer and simply better.
In some ways I do want CG motorstorm to be real, but in other ways I want bigger worlds with more in depth mission design again.
Overall, the truth and sad aspect of visuals wars have caused a lot of games to suffer. Xbox fans really pushed that visuals made games better in a sense. This caused sony to believe that better visuals is what everyone wanted and to a extent it is but the depth and design of games has greatly suffered more.
As I look back at games for memorable design from PS2 to PS3... surely I can think of many instances where ps2 games were bigger, longer and simply better.
In some ways I do want CG motorstorm to be real, but in other ways I want bigger worlds with more in depth mission design again.
Yeah sorry, to explain, I thought you meant the 360 was better value 'silicon' wise, and that would be reversed this time.
While I'm sure there will be epic fanboy battles upon the arrival of the new machines, there are logical reasons for people to try and make sure they buy the one which is likely to get the better versions of multiplatform games.
BF3 looks better than Gears 3? Uhhh, and you even said a lot better.
Oh for that? I was referring to the current advantages and disadvantages seem like they're going to be reversed between those 2 manufacturers for the ps4 and Durango.
Dude, you made me crack up, both times I read it...
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