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Rapist released on probation due to "bright future" in ten-pin bowling

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Phoenix said:
You don't think that statutory rape is rape?
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I honestly don't consider statutory rape nearly as awful as physically forced rape. Not even in the same stratosphere of dirtbag.

A man in his 20's physically forcibly raping someone his age? Could put a bullet in him for all I care if the evidence was indisputable. (video/witnesses)

A 25-50 year old guy who has sex with a girl who was willing but was only 13-16? Creepy as fuck, deserves jail time and sexual offender registry. Yet I would not endorse nearly as harsh as a punishment.

In America I would rather have a

1-11 - You have sex with them you get the death penalty

13-17 - Jail time/registry if older person is more than 4 years older

18+ legal

I think statutory rape makes the term rape much less impactful which is sad.



I had sex with someone 19 when I was 13. They did not force or trick me I knew exactly what I was doing.
 
Emerson said:
There is absolutely some of that sentiment here and it needs to go away. Equally bad is much of GAF's inability to see things as shades of gray. I agree that violent rape is a worse crime than statutory rape. But it is not a logical extension of that to say that statutory rape is okay. Some people believe that and that's wrong. Just as commonly, people overreact and impose that latter opinion on the person expressing the former.
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What does "rape" vs. "rape rape" even mean? It's a stupid meme that tries to minimize how horrible rape is by people saying it's not "real rape". Most people how have said that before have also argued that if the woman has an orgasm it's not rape anymore because she wanted it. This isn't the first rape thread on gaf and it's still disgusting to use memes like "it's not rape rape" trying to insinuate the person wasn't actually raped. It serves no other purpose than that.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
What does "rape" vs. "rape rape" even mean? It's a stupid meme that tries to minimize how horrible rape is by people saying it's not "real rape". Most people how have said that before have also argued that if the woman has an orgasm it's not rape anymore because she wanted it. This isn't the first rape thread on gaf and it's still disgusting to use memes like "it's not rape rape" trying to insinuate the person wasn't actually raped. It serves no other purpose than that.
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I didn't use any of those terms or make any of those arguments. If people are saying stupid shit or using "meme" phrases to troll elsewhere that's their problem.

I did make what I felt to be a rational argument that you haven't responded to. And I defended somebody who I felt was being piled on for what seemed to me to be a language misunderstanding.
 
MrToughPants said:
Anecdotal but...when I was a substitute every time I had grade 8 classes (13-14 age group) the female students would often talk about fucking and sucking amongst each other (openly)...loud enough for everyone else including me to hear. When I was 13-14 quite a few of the girls my age were already active with older guys, rarely with guys their own age group, and by grade 10 most are already fucking except the introverts/nerds.
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Yep its reality. A lot of people have blinders on not wanting to think their kids are doing this.
 
Riggs said:
Yep its reality. A lot of people have blinders on not wanting to think their kids are doing this.
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Who cares if they do it? It's too young, the guy shouldn't have done it and it's against the law. If you hear a 10 year old talking about fucking and sucking does that make it okay too?
 
Riggs said:
Yep its reality. A lot of people have blinders on not wanting to think their kids are doing this.
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It's true, and there's no doubt many kids that age and younger are doing those things. But it's also worthwhile to consider that at that age many kids are just bullshitting. I remember several specific people who used to talk about having sex in middle school who later told me they were just bragging and hadn't actually done anything.

Darklord said:
Who cares if they do it? It's too young, the guy shouldn't have done it and it's against the law. If you hear a 10 year old talking about fucking and sucking does that make it okay too?
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And again here, the same problem I'm talking about above that seems to be endemic to GAF these days. Somebody imposes an opinion on somebody that they never said in the slightest.
 
Emerson said:
It's true, and there's no doubt many kids that age and younger are doing those things. But it's also worthwhile to consider that at that age many kids are just bullshitting. I remember several specific people who used to talk about having sex in middle school who later told me they were just bragging and hadn't actually done anything.
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Yep its totally a status thing. Which is fucked up in its own regard.
 
Emerson said:
I didn't use any of those terms or make any of those arguments. If people are saying stupid shit or using "meme" phrases to troll elsewhere that's their problem.

I did make what I felt to be a rational argument that you haven't responded to. And I defended somebody who I felt was being piled on for what seemed to me to be a language misunderstanding.
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I never said you said that? What are you talking about?
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
What does "rape" vs. "rape rape" even mean? It's a stupid meme that tries to minimize how horrible rape is by people saying it's not "real rape". Most people how have said that before have also argued that if the woman has an orgasm it's not rape anymore because she wanted it. This isn't the first rape thread on gaf and it's still disgusting to use memes like "it's not rape rape" trying to insinuate the person wasn't actually raped. It serves no other purpose than that.
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I had no idea it was a meme or something, I tried using it to acknowledge the difference between the broader term rape, and the more specific rape against someones will. As Emerson stated it is mostly a difference in language misunderstanding.

Like I previously said I think this was wrong. Just not nearly as wrong as forced rape or if he were older, or if she was younger. Shades of grey. Being less wrong doesn't make it right and I am by no means advocating that.
 
Emerson said:
You replied to me as if I should be accountable for those statements. They're completely irrelevant to the argument I was making, so I was questioning why you replied with them.
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So you jumped in to a response that wasn't targeting you with a response saying something that had nothing to do with my complaint so I explain again what the problem was and then you try to claim I was accusing you of something? What?


itsgreen said:
I had no idea it was a meme or something, I tried using it to acknowledge the difference between the broader term rape, and the more specific rape against someones will. As Emerson stated it is mostly a difference in language misunderstanding.

Like I previously said I think this was wrong. Just not nearly as wrong a forced rape or if he were older, or if she was younger. Shades of grey. Being less wrong doesn't make it right and I am by no means advocating that.
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And that's fine if you didn't but it doesn't make it unreasonable for people to get upset when you use a meme that is used to be insulting. I don't even think anyone is mad at you especially if it's because of a language barrier.
 
Darklord said:
Well you kinda did. You said the only person who should be able to take them to court is the victim. That implies if it's okay with the 13 year then it's okay.
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Actually somebody else said that.

Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
So you jumped in to a response that wasn't targeting you with a response saying something that had nothing to do with my complaint so I explain again what the problem was and then you try to claim I was accusing you of something? What?
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You quoted me, so how was the response not targeting me? You do realize that when you quote somebody you are therefore responding to them and it's not unreasonable to assume you are talking to them?
 
Girl was 13? He's pretty much a pedophile in my book - irrelevant that there was no violence. 13 year old girls should not be having sex with anyone, never mind someone six years older. If she was 16, this would maybe be up for discussion (Maybe), but 13? No.
 
Darklord said:
Well you kinda did. You said the only person who should be able to take them to court is the victim. That implies if it's okay with the 13 year then it's okay.
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And below I agreed with squiddy that 13 is to impressionable to make that decision. I was wrong.
 
Emerson said:
Actually somebody else said that.



You quoted me, so how was the response not targeting me? You do realize that when you quote somebody you are therefore responding to them and it's not unreasonable to assume you are talking to them?
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Ok. All you said was people have to stop overreacting and learn what shades of gray are and I responded by explaining that I don't think it's overreacting since saying it wasn't "rape rape" is insulting and especially insulting to the victim, if you can't understand this by now I don't know what to tell you. I'm done.
 
Darklord said:
Who cares if they do it? It's too young, the guy shouldn't have done it and it's against the law. If you hear a 10 year old talking about fucking and sucking does that make it okay too?
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14 years old was legal in Canada not too long ago so the law saw it that way too.

In June 2006, the Canadian government proposed a bill to raise the age of consent from 14 to 16, while creating a close-in-age exemption for sex between 14-15 year olds and partners up to 5 years older, and keeping an existing close-in-age clause for sex between 12-13 year olds and partners up to 2 years older. The initiative also maintains a temporary exception for already existing marriages of 14 and 15 year olds, but forbids new marriages like these in the future
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Wow look at that 14 year olds and 19 year olds can still legally have consensual sex in Canada...maybe if that dude waited a couple weeks and she turned 14.

Consider that 13 and 14 year olds are often at the same grade level, they tend to do what their friends do.
 
Wazzim said:
Sure it's disgusting in America and Germany (barely) but it's totally normal in Spain and Japan.

You only think it's disgusting because of the legislation (and thus culture) of the country you grew up in.
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While that may be true, it's worth noting that according to Wikipedia Malaysia's AOC is 16 which makes the story in the OP even more confusing.

Edit: As noted in the OP anyway.

I mean, it's all well and good to talk about other country's standards for AOC, but we also have to talk about how the law is ENFORCED in countries with existing AOC laws it seems.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
What does "rape" vs. "rape rape" even mean? It's a stupid meme that tries to minimize how horrible rape is by people saying it's not "real rape". Most people how have said that before have also argued that if the woman has an orgasm it's not rape anymore because she wanted it. This isn't the first rape thread on gaf and it's still disgusting to use memes like "it's not rape rape" trying to insinuate the person wasn't actually raped. It serves no other purpose than that.
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Yeah ok...except no one in this thread actually said any of this. No one is insinuating that the girl wasn't raped. All people are trying to say is that this was sex between a 19yr old and a 13yr old that was consensual and there comes a certain gray area with that. It's rape simply because she was underage. As far as we know, there isn't any evidence of coercion or force. The only thing making it rape is the fact that she is too young to understand the ramifications of the decision she is making, while the older guy does. It's a different type of rape, and for that he DESERVES punishment, but not one equivalent to that of an actual rapist. Are you going to tell me that a 13yr old girl that decides to have sex with an older teen on her own will deserves the same punishment as a guy who assaults/coerces/forces a 13yr old girl into having sex with him?

This shit happens all the time. I can't count how many times I knew of girls in grade school ranging from ages 13 to 16 that wanted to or already had sex with guys who are usually at least 2 to 5 years older. So yes, adults do know better, but let's not act like 13 year olds don't know what sex is or whether they should or shouldn't be having sex. Too many times people don't want to acknowledge their own shitty parenting and instead want to blame others for raising promiscuous kids.
 
ultim8p00 said:
Yeah ok...except no one in this thread actually said any of this. No one is insinuating that the girl wasn't raped. All people are trying to say is that this was sex between a 19yr old and a 13yr old that was consensual and there comes a certain gray area with that. It's rape simply because she was underage. As far as we know, there isn't any evidence of coercion or force. The only thing making it rape is the fact that she is too young to understand the ramifications of the decision she is making, while the older guy does. And for that, he DESERVES punishment, but not one equivalent to that of an actual rapist. Are you going to tell me that a 13yr old girl that decides to have sex with an older guy on her own will deserves the same punishment as a guy who assaults and forces a 13yr old girl into having sex with him?

This shit happens all the time. I can't count how many times I knew of girls in grade school ranging from ages 13 to 16 that wanted to or already had sex with guys who are usually at least 2 to 5 years older. So yes, adults do know better, but let's not act like 13 year olds don't know what sex is or whether they should or shouldn't be having sex. Too many times people don't want to acknowledge their own shitty parenting and instead want to blame others for raising promiscuous kids.
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Exactly what are we basing her "consent" on? How do we know she's not being pressured, threatened, etc, or that her position is simply not being lied about completely? It's not exactly uncommon in the US for rape victims to be trashed as "asking for it" or to be portrayed as promiscuous, slutty, wanton, etc.

I think it's very troubling that people are taking the claim that a 13 year old is consenting to a sexual relationship with someone almost 50% older than her uncritically especially given the ultra-conservative nature of Malaysia. I mean, if this was a consensual relationship in the first place who brought the charges?
 
Gaborn said:
Exactly what are we basing her "consent" on? How do we know she's not being pressured, threatened, etc, or that her position is simply not being lied about completely? It's not exactly uncommon in the US for rape victims to be trashed as "asking for it" or to be portrayed as promiscuous, slutty, wanton, etc.

I think it's very troubling that people are taking the claim that a 13 year old is consenting to a sexual relationship with someone almost 50% older than her uncritically especially given the ultra-conservative nature of Malaysia. I mean, if this was a consensual relationship in the first place who brought the charges?
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Parents probably.
 
itsgreen said:
Ok maybe the 'not real rapist' thing weren't the right words. When I think of rape I think of someone forcing him or herself upon someone else against the others will.

This doesn't match that description. You could still call him a rapist but have to acknowledge that it isn't the same thing.
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Fundamentally rape is sex without consent. If you are under the age of consent you are considered unable to give consent.

The law basically says that you can't have consensual sex with a 13 year old because they are not in a position to give informed consent. I'd definitely agree that a 13 year will not be able to make informed decisions about sex and therefore not able to give consent.

Arguing that rape has to be violent is fundamentally flawed.

Short version: the sex wasn't consensual because the girl can't legally give consent.
 
I see a lot of people throwing the word "consensual" in this thread and it is incorrect. If the sex were consensual... both parties would have to be old enough to legally consent. So to say it's not rape because it was consensual is thrown out in my mind.

13 is too young. Hell, I didn't even know what sex was at that age and if a 19 yo guy coerced me into having sex...I wouldn't know how to stop it or even know it was wrong.

edit: the super bob hit it right on
 
Gaborn said:
Even if that's so I don't see the problem. Under the law a 19 year old can't have sex with a 13 year old even IF you assume they're consenting which I think is a HUGE reach.
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Ya I am not sure any of us are saying there is a problem with him going to jail.
 
In Canada it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 19 year old. I'm not going to crucify this guy for a 1 year difference.

And all the outrage against this not being "rape rape", give it a fucking rest.

If you can't differentiate between forceful violent sex, and consensual sex between 2 people that are both quite young, there's something wrong with YOU.

At worst you can call this a grey area, and look down on a guy for it. But to vilify him and send him to jail....no.
The Super Bob said:
Fundamentally rape is sex without consent. If you are under the age of consent you are considered unable to give consent.
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Oh please. Every single person on this forum judges these news stories and events based on their own personal moral views and ethics. Just because something is lawful and legal somewhere doesn't mean it's not wrong. And just because statutory rape is defined in every state/country as a different arbitrary age, doesn't make it ethically wrong in every single person's eyes.

Why should I view the consent for sex being available purely on a arbitrary age set by (most likely) 50 year old politicians?

While most people intuitively believe that sex with young people is wrong, the vast majority of people would believe there is a natural grey area.
 
X7etK.jpg


"How old is 13 really?"
 
The Super Bob said:
Fundamentally rape is sex without consent. If you are under the age of consent you are considered unable to give consent.

The law basically says that you can't have consensual sex with a 13 year old because they are not in a position to give informed consent. I'd definitely agree that a 13 year will not be able to make informed decisions about sex and therefore not able to give consent.

Arguing that rape has to be violent is fundamentally flawed.

Short version: the sex wasn't consensual because the girl can't legally give consent.
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I feel like people keep making the assumption that people like me are saying that this wasn't rape. This WAS rape, but it was rape because she was at an age defined by law where she cannot give consent, regardless of whether she actually truly gave consent. It is rape by a technicality. An informed and justified technicality, but a technicality non the less.


The argument I am making is that things aren't always so cut and dry, and as such we shouldn't sentence this guy with the same punishment as we would someone who actually committed forced rape. We need to consider the facts. Should he go to jail? Yes, he deserves some punishment. Should he go to jail for 10 years? No, I don't think so.

If we were to follow this technicality and be so black and white about it, are you telling me that two 13 year olds having consensual sex together should both be arrested and sent to jail for 10+ years? I mean, they are both not able to give consent to each other, so they are both raping each other.
 
Monumental said:
In Canada it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 19 year old. I'm not going to crucify this guy for a 1 year difference.

And all the outrage against this not being "rape rape", give it a fucking rest.

If you can't differentiate between forceful violent sex, and consensual sex between 2 people that are both quite young, there's something wrong with YOU.

At worst you can call this a grey area, and look down on a guy for it. But to vilify him and send him to jail....no.
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They let 14 year olds have a baby...?
 
Monumental said:
In Canada it's legal for a 14 year old to have sex with a 19 year old. I'm not going to crucify this guy for a 1 year difference.

And all the outrage against this not being "rape rape", give it a fucking rest.

If you can't differentiate between forceful violent sex, and consensual sex between 2 people that are both quite young, there's something wrong with YOU.

At worst you can call this a grey area, and look down on a guy for it. But to vilify him and send him to jail....no.
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I'm not sure why people are assuming it's consensual sex simply because some judge claims it is. Assuming you think that should matter in a case of stat rape that is. Again, how often is the victim trashed or blamed for "wanting" it in a rape case? The only gray area here is the fact that the judges in this case are apparently throwing out Malaysian law because of ten-pin BOWLING.
 
ultim8p00 said:
I feel like people keep making the assumption that people like me are saying that this wasn't rape. This WAS rape, but it was rape because she was at an age defined by law where she cannot give consent, regardless of whether she actually truly gave consent. It is rape by a technicality. An informed and justified technicality, but a technicality non the less.


The argument I am making is that things aren't always so cut and dry, and as such we shouldn't sentence this guy with the same punishment as we would someone who actually committed forced rape. We need to consider the facts. Should he go to jail? Yes, he deserves some punishment. Should he go to jail for 10 years? No, I don't think so.

If we were to follow this technicality and be so black and white about it, are you telling me that two 13 year olds having consensual sex together should both be arrested and sent to jail for 10+ years? I mean, they are both not able to give consent to each other, so they are both raping each other.
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He was sentenced to 5 years.
 
ultim8p00 said:
I feel like people keep making the assumption that people like me are saying that this wasn't rape. This WAS rape, but it was rape because she was at an age defined by law where she cannot give consent, regardless of whether she actually truly gave consent. It is rape by a technicality. An informed and justified technicality, but a technicality non the less.


The argument I am making is that things aren't always so cut and dry, and as such we shouldn't sentence this guy with the same punishment as we would someone who actually committed forced rape. We need to consider the facts. Should he go to jail? Yes, he deserves some punishment. Should he go to jail for 10 years? No, I don't think so.

If we were to follow this technicality and be so black and white about it, are you telling me that two 13 year olds having consensual sex together should both be arrested and sent to jail for 10+ years? I mean, they are both not able to give consent to each other, so they are both raping each other.
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AOC laws are almost always applied to people OVER the AOC having sex with people UNDER the AOC. Two 13 year olds having sex isn't a crime (assuming neither is forced that is).
 
Gaborn said:
I'm not sure why people are assuming it's consensual sex simply because some judge claims it is. Assuming you think that should matter in a case of stat rape that is. Again, how often is the victim trashed or blamed for "wanting" it in a rape case? The only gray area here is the fact that the judges in this case are apparently throwing out Malaysian law because of ten-pin BOWLING.
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The victim claimed it was consenual iirc.
 
Gaborn said:
I'm not sure why people are assuming it's consensual sex simply because some judge claims it is. Assuming you think that should matter in a case of stat rape that is. Again, how often is the victim trashed or blamed for "wanting" it in a rape case? The only gray area here is the fact that the judges in this case are apparently throwing out Malaysian law because of ten-pin BOWLING.
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Yeah no. I'm not going to assume and make up things to viliify him. The facts are given to us and I'm basing it off that. If the story presented was of him coercing her, then I would have a different view. But it's not.
 
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