Support NeoGAF

[SirIgbyCeaser]

So get this: Nintendo is a very smart company.

For one, they have been only selling consoles with profit margins since the Nes Days, the only exception is the 3DS. Which was selling poorly until this price cut came into effect, so I believe nintendo managed to earn those losses back anyway thanks to software sales and or accessories. Also, that was a year ago now and I'm sure they've got it going good again.

Now their next console will be the nintendo wii U and it's suppose to be a 3 core IBM process very much like the 360 had. Its GPU though made by ATI is running on OpenGL much like the PS3.

Now this console generation(PS3/360) has had a tun of middleware made to increase game development speeds and, maxamize cost effectiveness. All the money that Sony, MS, and all the publishers have spent in developing said randerwares and tools, are now probably very afford-ably be brought to the Wii-U. Meaning that nintendo has got the easiest on the wallet piece of next gen consoles to invest in.

Is nintendo going to set the standard for profits once again? Granted some research will have to be done for technology on the wiipad. And that will cost a few more designers or something, but the IPAD and, touch screen phones also already have a lot of documented tech. Other than initial porting of technology. The console will for the foreseeable future be the most attractive development platform.

While the next xbox and playstation, will be dept inducing risky business. Even more so than last generation. The way nintendo has played its card and the current state of the global economy seems perfectly set to replicate the success of the Wii in my opinion.

 

[Coolwhip]

Time will tell. With Nintendo I always wonder if they're super smart, or just crazy.

 

[Pharros]

If they can make money from the platform but stay close enough technology wise to the next iterations of the Playstation and Xbox for ports, it will be exactly where they want to be.

 

[Kacho]

Time will tell. With Nintendo I always wonder if they're super smart, or just crazy.

Both and it seems to do them wonders.

 

[1-D_FTW]

They own 70 percent of the Japanese market right now. Not sure they really care about anything else (everything else is gravy that coincidentally happens or not). It was designed with Japan in mind. In that sense, it probably will be a success.

As for the rest, I don't really see your arguments. If it's just matching 360/PS3, what's the incentive for westerners to upgrade (and have to migrate their friends list)? In the west TVs and ipads are common place. So those features aren't exactly big deals for most.

 

[enzo_gt]

It's the most attractive platform, technologically, until the PS4 and 720 come out. Basically, Nintendo playing catch up means that they've very temporarily got the (potentially) most powerful console in the market, and then just like that a year plus later they're back to playing catch up again.

For Nintendo, the raw power/graphics isn't what sells their consoles and the demographic knows that. It's the games, and recently, the gimmick. IMO the gimmick isn't that strong this time around so I don't see it outselling and outprofiting the Wii, but I still see it being successful because Nintendo.

 

[Freezie KO]

All that middleware won't matter if third-parties abandon the console as soon as PS4/XBox 720 comes out. Who's going to use it? Nibris?

 

[jmls1121]

Time will tell. With Nintendo I always wonder if they're super smart, or just crazy.

Nintendo is both.

Could you imagine any other 10 billion dollar electronics company being insane enough to put the hopes of their company in the Wii and the DS?

 

[marc^o^]

Only Nintendo will be able to cash in with games as graphically simple as Game & Wario or WiiFit U. Expectations for next xbox and playstation will be immense, and of course riskier for unfortunate studios.

 

[apana]

I think Wii U will mostly be a success. It won't be upto Wii levels but I think it will be the best selling console of next generation. Not by a huge margin, all three will be close together. So yes Nintendo will make good profits off of it.

 

[Monty Mole]

The difference is that Wii came at a time when support from the Xbox and Gamecube had completely stopped and PS2 was only getting bargain basement budget titles.

The Wii U is coming at a time when PS3 and 360 are still very much alive and kicking with big hitters like Halo 4 and Modern Warfare this Christmas and huge 2013 third party line-ups, along with first party big-hitters like Gears and The Last of Us. Not to mention Wii U doesn't have the motion-gaming 'wow' factor that Wii did.

The 360 and PS3 only need to hold on to their existing userbases until their new consoles come along, but the Wii U will struggle to get that existing userbase to make a switch to the Nintendo console - especially when you factor in PSN/Xbox Live retention. So, it makes you wonder - what market is Nintendo aiming for? The "family" and casual markets again like last time?

It'll do just fine of course, after all the 3DS is doing alright without the Brain Training factor and competition from smart-phones. But it won't be replicating the success of the Wii.

 

[Coolwhip]

They own 70 percent of the Japanese market right now. Not sure they really care about anything else (everything else is gravy that coincidentally happens or not). It was designed with Japan in mind. In that sense, it probably will be a success.

As for the rest, I don't really see your arguments. If it's just matching 360/PS3, what's the incentive for westerners to upgrade (and have to migrate their friends list)? In the west TVs and ipads are common place. So those features aren't exactly big deals for most.

Upgrade from the Wii you mean? Let's not forget Nintendo and Apple both have proven there is a lot bigger gaming market than the conservative console market. I can see Wii U appealing to people that wouldn't buy a 360, let alone a 720.

 

[tkscz]

So get this: Nintendo is a very smart company.

For one, they have been only selling consoles with profit margins since the Nes Days, the only exception is the 3DS. Which was selling poorly until this price cut came into effect, so I believe nintendo managed to earn those losses back anyway thanks to software sales and or accessories. Also, that was a year now and I'm sure they've got it going good again.

Now their next console will be the nintendo wii U and it's suppose to be a 3 core IBM process very much like the 360 had. Its GPU though made by ATI is running on OpenGL much like the PS3.

Now this console generation(PS3/360) has had a tun of middleware made to increase game development speeds and, maxamize cost effectiveness. All the money that Sony, MS, and all the publishers have spent in developing said randerwares and tools, are now probably very afford-ably be brought to the Wii-U. Meaning that nintendo has got the easiest on the wallet piece of next gen consoles to invest in.

Is nintendo going to set the standard for profits once again? Granted some research will have to be done for technology on the wiipad. And that will cost a few more designers or something, but the IPAD and, touch screen phones also already have a lot of documented tech. Other than initial porting of technology. The console will for the foreseeable future be the most attractive development platform.

While the next xbox and playstation, will be dept inducing risky business. Even more so than last generation. The way nintendo has played its card and the current state of the global economy seems perfectly set to replicate the success of the Wii in my opinion.

The tech in the WiiU has been said to be much newer than what everyone here keeps saying it is. Not sure why everyone here keeps saying it runs on 2006 technology. The Wii, on the other hand, truly was just overclocked gamecube tech with GDDR3 RAM.

As for their plan, Nintendo tends to take tech that is cheap, but powerful (enough). Then they make sure that NOTHING BOTTLENECKS, even if it means lowering clock speeds (see the 3DS). Nintendo is about running cheap, efficient and powerful (see gamecube).

So the idea that they are making money on last gen hardware has no meaning sense it's not using 2006 tech. It's using newer, but cheaper tech. This way it's modern, but will make a profit (again, see Gamecube).

 

[Pixel_boy]

Nintendo will make what they want it crazy to think everyone should just do what other are doing it makes for a boring market if they all do the same things

Its nothing to do with cashing it it all come down to games let just wait and see what they have coming

 

[Oppo]

The tech in the WiiU has been said to be much newer than what everyone here keeps saying it is

it is known that it is not known? wha?

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

The difference is that Wii came at a time when support from the Xbox and Gamecube had completely stopped and PS2 was only getting bargain basement budget titles.

The Wii also came out a year after the nintendo 360, now they're the first to the market.

They can get new ip and new games based on 360 and ps3 middleware, less investment risk when you don't need to build new tools.

Unlike the next xbox and ps3. Which many studios won't be able to afford to develop for at all!

The tech in the WiiU has been said to be much newer than what everyone here keeps saying it is. Not sure why everyone here keeps saying it runs on 2006 technology. The Wii, on the other hand, truly was just overclocked gamecube tech with GDDR3 RAM.

As for their plan, Nintendo tends to take tech that is cheap, but powerful (enough). Then they make sure that NOTHING BOTTLENECKS, even if it means lowering clock speeds (see the 3DS). Nintendo is about running cheap, efficient and powerful (see gamecube).

So the idea that they are making money on last gen hardware has no meaning sense it's not using 2006 tech. It's using newer, but cheaper tech. This way it's modern, but will make a profit (again, see Gamecube).

A newer IBM chip than the 360, but that will work on 3 cores about the same way at a lower clock. And a DX11 inspired OpenGL gpu that runs at a clock comparable to the 360 is newer tech, at last generation speeds. This is mostly to fit into a neat and simple box without heating issues.

 

[Majanew]

Nintendo will make what they want it crazy to think everyone should just do what other are doing it makes for a boring market if they all do the same things

It's about getting and keeping third-party support. Not falling far behind Xbox8/PS4 tech-wise will help that cause. Nintendo's games will sell, but they said they want third-party support.

 

[tkscz]

it is known that it is not known? wha?

When I say here, I mean the average member of neogaf. Look in most WiiU threads, you'll see quite a few post saying it's running on 2006 hardware. While you get developers saying it runs on modern hardware, or something of that nature.

The Wii also came out a year after the nintendo 360, now they're the first to the market.

They can get new ip and new games based on 360 and ps3 middleware, less investment risk when you don't need to build new tools.

Unlike the next xbox and ps3. Which many studios won't be able to afford to develop for at all!




A newer IBM chip than the 360, but that will work on 3 cores about the same way at a lower clock. And a DX11 inspired OpenGL gpu that runs at a clock comparable to the 360 is newer tech, at last generation speeds. This is mostly to fit into a neat and simple box without heating issues.

I've got many a theory on if the next Xbox and PS4 will break the gaming industry or not. There is a chance of that with most low - middle tier developers wouldn't be able to afford making games.

As for tech, clock speeds and cores alone, are never a good form of measuring a console's power. There is so much more unknown about it that would help us figure out just how strong the WiiU is (like bus, ROP etc etc...), so doing a hardware comparison right now seems a little fruitless.

 

[chocolateTHUNDER]

It's about getting and keeping third-party support. Not falling far behind Xbox8/PS4 tech-wise will help that cause. Nintendo's games will sell, but they said they want third-party support.

Nintendo will never have the third party support that Microsoft and Sony has. It's been the same way for almost 15 years now; and there has been nothing to indicate that the culture within Nintendo is going to change anytime soon.

People who buy Nintendo products want to play Nintendo games. Everyone else buys either a 360 or a PS3 depending on what their friend circle has.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

They own 70 percent of the Japanese market right now. Not sure they really care about anything else (everything else is gravy that coincidentally happens or not). It was designed with Japan in mind. In that sense, it probably will be a success.

What metric are you basing this 70% off of? Hardware sales for the last week in Japan? Let's keep in mind that Nintendo hasn't had a viable home console platform in Japan for almost 2 years now.

 

[onQ123]

or Wii U just like Wii before it will cash in on the Gamecube tech.


Wii = GC CPU/GPU with higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff )


Wii U = Wii CPU more cores higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff)


that's the way I see it could be wrong.

 

[Monty Mole]

The Wii also came out a year after the nintendo 360, now they're the first to the market.

They can get new ip and new games based on 360 and ps3 middleware, less investment risk when you don't need to build new tools.

Unlike the next xbox and ps3. Which many studios won't be able to afford to develop for at all!

We're not even seeing the announcements of Wii U ports for most of the 2013 360/PS3 third party line-up, never mind new IP and games specifically for the console.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

We're not even seeing the announcements of Wii U ports for most of the 2013 360/PS3 third party line-up, never mind new IP and games specifically for the console.

Who knows, those could be announced and released within a month assuming porting from 360 to the Wii-U is efficient.

 

[Meelow]

Nintendo will never have the third party support that Microsoft and Sony has. It's been the same way for almost 15 years now; and there has been nothing to indicate that the culture within Nintendo is going to change anytime soon.

People who buy Nintendo products want to play Nintendo games. Everyone else buys either a 360 or a PS3 depending on what their friend circle has.

Considering Nintendo gets great third party support on their handhelds that's not true, third party's could ignore the 3DS and go for the Vita but they aren't, Nintendo needs to push for third party support on their consoles like they do with the handhelds, they already said there main goal for Wii U is to get the third party support, unlike the Wii where they said "third party's will come on their own", they also said "we get great 3DS support and we will try harder to get better support on the Wii U".

 

[grimshawish]

If the WiiU is a success it should take a lot of sales from the 360 this Christmas. If not, then Live is a growing market and will continue to grow with the 720 (basically people are tied together).

WiiU is very much Nintendo coming into the market when they think its more profitable for them.
Overall Nintendo can only go up as Wii sales are dead now, they'll hope for the WiiU to be a big success but overall I think their happy with selling less than it. Unlike other companies Nintendo don't need to outsell their previous losses to turn a profit.

Ninty ain't perfect but I think its fair to remember they wouldn't be brining out games if they weren't making money. Frankly no one would blame Sony for calming down next gen, in fact most would recommend it.


Xbox is the enemy and the opportunity though.

 

[chocolateTHUNDER]

or Wii U just like Wii before it will cash in on the Gamecube tech.


Wii = GC CPU/GPU with higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff )


Wii U = Wii CPU more cores higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff)


that's the way I see it could be wrong.

You are so incredibly wrong that I'm surprised you thought it was a good idea to hit the submit button after you typed that up.

They own 70 percent of the Japanese market right now. Not sure they really care about anything else (everything else is gravy that coincidentally happens or not). It was designed with Japan in mind. In that sense, it probably will be a success.

Yeah you're right, I'm sure Nintendo is just fine ignoring the two bigger markets of the world (North American and Europe) because they've got the homeland on lockdown. I mean no corporation could possibly want more money, right?

 

[DynamicG]

or Wii U just like Wii before it will cash in on the Gamecube tech.


Wii = GC CPU/GPU with higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff )


Wii U = Wii CPU more cores higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff)


that's the way I see it could be wrong.

Are you saying that it's literally just an upgraded Broadway that is the WiiU' CPU?

 

[Tagg9]

They own 70 percent of the Japanese market right now. Not sure they really care about anything else (everything else is gravy that coincidentally happens or not). It was designed with Japan in mind. In that sense, it probably will be a success.

Not sure where you are getting 70% from. Also, the North American market is much more lucrative than Japan. They made so much money from the Wii and DS because it was a worldwide hit; in fact, their portable marketshare was substantially lower in Japan because of Monster Hunter on the PSP.

 

[KageMaru]

While the next xbox and playstation, will be dept inducing risky business. Even more so than last generation. The way nintendo has played its card and the current state of the global economy seems perfectly set to replicate the success of the Wii in my opinion.

What makes you think this OP?

Also the R&D done this Gen, especially what's being done right now will benefit all 3, not just Nintendo.

 

[Kyon]

They own 70 percent of the Japanese market right now.

LOL. Were you looking at recent Media Create numbers and just made a conclusion about their market share?

 

[Levyne]

Not sure where you are getting 70% from. Also, the North American market is much more lucrative than Japan. They made so much money from the Wii and DS because it was a worldwide hit; in fact, their portable marketshare was substantially lower in Japan because of Monster Hunter on the PSP.

I have not looked at the articles but these sorts of urls have popped up today.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/08/nintendo-japanese-market/

 

[Monty Mole]

Considering Nintendo gets great third party support on their handhelds that's not true, third party's could ignore the 3DS and go for the Vita but they aren't, Nintendo needs to push for third party support on their consoles like they do with the handhelds, they already said there main goal for Wii U is to get the third party support, unlike the Wii where they said "third party's will come on their own", they also said "we get great 3DS support and we will try harder to get better support on the Wii U".

I'd disagree with the statement "great third party support on their handhelds". Yes, the Japanese certainly have the investment there, but for western publishers it's mainly just licensed tosh and brain training rip-offs.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Are you saying that it's literally just an upgraded Broadway that is the WiiU' CPU?

Some people really get creative when we allready know where the CPU comes from and it has nothing to do with Broadway, but why look at facts, the WiiU runs on a steam engine.

 

[Currygan]

I suppose such tech has gone massively down in price, so Nintendo stepped in, added some more power (but not to a point console would be sold at a high price expecially compared to the next home consoles) and it's ready once again to maximize profits

 

[chocolateTHUNDER]

Considering Nintendo gets great third party support on their handhelds that's not true, third party's could ignore the 3DS and go for the Vita but they aren't, Nintendo needs to push for third party support on their consoles like they do with the handhelds, they already said there main goal for Wii U is to get the third party support, unlike the Wii where they said "third party's will come on their own", they also said "we get great 3DS support and we will try harder to get better support on the Wii U".

If console and handheld success were transferable I'm sure the Vita would be doing great right now.

Just because the 3DS has developer support doesn't mean the Wii U is going to as well. I mean seriously, we've been hearing the same song and dance from Nintendo for years now. That's not even taking into account that the Wii U will most likely be a terrible choice for a developer to focus on once the new playstations and Xbox's come out. As others have said in this thread, they'll be playing catchup in terms of developer support 3 years from now and left in the dust by the "new" consoles in 5.

 

[Zoramon089]

or Wii U just like Wii before it will cash in on the Gamecube tech.


Wii = GC CPU/GPU with higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff )


Wii U = Wii CPU more cores higher clock speeds (upgraded stuff)


that's the way I see it could be wrong.

No, nonono. The Wii U stuff is completely wrong

Don´t know what you´re talking about, except from Japanese Developers there basically is no real Third Party support for the 3DS.

So ignoring the massive support they get there's no support? Gotcha. Only western devs matter

 

[AOC83]

Considering Nintendo gets great third party support on their handhelds

Don´t know what you´re talking about, except from Japanese Developers there basically is no real Third Party support for the 3DS.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Upgrade from the Wii you mean? Let's not forget Nintendo and Apple both have proven there is a lot bigger gaming market than the conservative console market. I can see Wii U appealing to people that wouldn't buy a 360, let alone a 720.

Agree Apple has a huge market. I just don't see the cross-over with WiiU. In what way is the Nintendo tablet in any way better than an iPad for these people? And I think you're underestimating 360 and the casual audience. It's not a coincidence the 360 didn't really take off until Kinect came out. For better or worse, it is the flagship of motion controls at the moment.

Not sure where you are getting 70% from. Also, the North American market is much more lucrative than Japan. They made so much money from the Wii and DS because it was a worldwide hit; in fact, their portable marketshare was substantially lower in Japan because of Monster Hunter on the PSP.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/08/nintendo-japanese-market/

 

[chocolateTHUNDER]

I suppose such tech has gone massively down in price, so Nintendo stepped in, added some more power (but not to a point console would be sold at a high price) and it's ready once again to maximize profits

Smart. Very smart

Smart until like 2016 where Wii U's aren't selling for shit because 3rd party's have moved onto the prospective Xbox/PS consoles and the only reason you would buy a Wii U is if you really, really like Nintendo games.

Don´t know what you´re talking about, except from Japanese Developers there basically is no real Third Party support for the 3DS.

Ahahaha if this is true, it's pretty fucking funny.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

What makes you think this OP?

Also the R&D done this Gen, especially what's being done right now will benefit all 3, not just Nintendo.

I'm saying that R&D costs were taken care of mostly before the console even came to the market.

While orbis will need Apu R&D and Durango will likely need new DX12 R&D, for example. New middleware, and expensive new dev kits, everything about launching a new console is expensive for everyone involved, except nintendo wii's generations.

 

[DynamicG]

Some people really get creative when we allready know where the CPU comes from and it has nothing to do with Broadway, but why look at facts, the WiiU runs on a steam engine.

I knew it had been debunked repeatedly, hell IBM even announced that it was from one of their modern lines, but I wanted to make sure that is what he was saying.

 

[Bumhead]

But it won't be replicating the success of the Wii.

It doesn't need to.

Same for the 3DS, really. The Wii U and 3DS have the unfortunate "privilege" of following up from two of the most successful games consoles of all time. To match those numbers shouldn't be the default expectation.

Both the 3DS and the Wii U could sell half of the DS and Wii numbers and still represent a profitable and successful venture for Nintendo.

 

[Meelow]

I'd disagree with the statement "great third party support on their handhelds". Yes, the Japanese certainly have the investment there, but for western publishers it's mainly just licensed tosh and brain training rip-offs.

Western third party support are hard to get for handhelds, Sony can't get them as well.

If console and handheld success were transferable I'm sure the Vita would be doing great right now.

Just because the 3DS has developer support doesn't mean the Wii U is going to as well. I mean seriously, we've been hearing the same song and dance from Nintendo for years now. That's not even taking into account that the Wii U will most likely be a terrible choice for a developer to focus on once the new playstations and Xbox's come out. As others have said in this thread, they'll be playing catchup in terms of developer support 3 years from now and left in the dust by the "new" consoles in 5.

I'm saying the 3DS has support, so it's possible Nintendo can get great third party support.

If the Wii U sells great than it wouldn't be a terrible choice, look at the problems with the past.

Nintendo 64 used cartridges that had less ram and was more expansive to develop for.

GameCube had low sells and used small DVD CD's but still got decent third party support.

Wii was underpowered

All of them had problems, Nintendo fixed the CD problem, Nintendo now just has to prove the Wii U will be good enough to get future multiplats with PS4/720.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

Are you saying that it's literally just an upgraded Broadway that is the WiiU' CPU?

Depends who/what you want to believe, some reports say its a brand new PowerPC triple core CPU in the 3Ghz+ range, whilst others just liken it to 3 Wii cores bolted together to ensure 100% backwards compatibility(but with the added bonus of higher clock speeds available for WiiU specific titles, presumably with some form of dynamic core speed selection).

Until some tech heads get their hands on a WiiU and rip it apart, it's just guess work.

Same goes for the GPU, which is more important than the CPU for determining how good the games will look.

 

[Arklite]

Isn't the OP an obvious statement? Delaying an upgrade to HD meant taking advantage of newer tech at lower cost, yes it's true.
I was much more impressed with Nintendo's efforts when they were matching/exceeding (Xbox/PS2) tech with the Gamecube, but they know what their user base puts value in I suppose.

 

[The Horror the horror]

I know publishers are going to appreciate the Wii-U. They'll be able to now easily port a lot of their games from earlier this generation that they wouldn't have been able to on the Wii. Granted, they won't see much returns from these ports, but these days they'll take whatever profit they can muster, especially with next-gen looming.

 

[Fonz72]

Time will tell. With Nintendo I always wonder if they're super smart, or just crazy.

Crazy like a

Spoiler

Star

Fox!

 

[KageMaru]

I'm saying that R&D costs were taken care of mostly before the console even came to the market.

While orbis will need Apu R&D and Durango will likely need new DX12 R&D, for example. New middleware, and expensive new dev kits, everything about launching a new console is expensive for everyone involved, except nintendo wii's generations.

No, it doesn't really work that way.

 

[tkscz]

Don´t know what you´re talking about, except from Japanese Developers there basically is no real Third Party support for the 3DS.

Why don't Japanese 3 parties count? Also it has some European 3rd party support.

 

[Lambtron]

I've got many a theory on if the next Xbox and PS4 will break the gaming industry or not. There is a chance of that with most low - middle tier developers wouldn't be able to afford making games.

This is kind of my big fear of the next generation.