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[KojiKnight]

I imagine we'll have to wait for a teardown for anything specific.

Unless the teardown lists off the shelf model parts, I wouldn't count on it... anything custom Nintendo and AMD aren't likely to have any reference materials for that are open to the public, and you can't learn the answer to the type of questions people are asking simply by looking at the chip. You'd have to get an electrical engineer in their as well as an electron microscope and dissect the chip a layer at a time.

This is why we don't have full specs on the 3DS CPU/GPU beyond what Nintendo has let everyone know (an ARM based proc with a custom PICA200 soldered on)

 

[flippedb]

You forgot "yet".

Zombi U's lighting effects look pretty nice. From what I've seen, the look better than Uncharted's.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm referring to pixel-counting induced giggles, naturally.

Yeah, but I don't know what you mean specifically. Many iPad games aren't 2048x1536? Well, no shit. That's a mental resolution.

I bet none of them have a vertical resolution of 360 pixels.

You forgot "yet".

That doesn't matter. Normally, the very first wave of software is a clear and unquestionable step above what the 'old' consoles could do.

 

[Donnie]

Why is everybody so sure that the GPU in the WiiU is E6760 based? This Chip is capable of "DirectX 11" Shader Model5/openGL 4.0 and we KNOW that the WiiU Chip can't do that. (Based on OP's rumor)

The OP Rumor states that the GPU "supports Shader Model 4.0 (DirectX 10.1 and OpenGL 3.3 equivalent functionality)", which actually looks exatly what the E4690 from the specsheet brings to the table... Combined with the first claims that the WiiU GPU is not even 2x 360, this paints a very clear picture for me..

The wiiU is much more likely running on a underclocked E4690 rather than a E6760. I want to be optimistic too, but even the most cautiously optimistic predictions have been smashed into bits in the past (see the espresso fiasco).

People aren't saying its based on a E6760. Just that it might be the closest chip to compare it too. Also its not running an under clocked anything, its running a custom GPU.

 

[specialguy]

Unless the teardown lists off the shelf model parts, I wouldn't count on it... anything custom Nintendo and AMD aren't likely to have any reference materials for that are open to the public, and you can't learn the answer to the type of questions people are asking simply by looking at the chip. You'd have to get an electrical engineer in their as well as an electron microscope and dissect the chip a layer at a time.

This is why we don't have full specs on the 3DS CPU/GPU beyond what Nintendo has let everyone know (an ARM based proc with a custom PICA200 soldered on)

We can get some die sizes I assume, which will tell us a fair amount. We'll also learn the bus layouts, whether it's an SOC, the RAM and what type/speed RAM chips, etc.

It wont tell us everything but it will tell a lot, and with Wii U presumably in mass production, hopefully will happen sometime reasonably soon.

 

[F#A#Oo]

You know how me 'n' thee disagree quite a lot?

This is one of those times.

If the pixel counting above is accurate, we're in for some giggles.

TankX3 and NG had these issues on other platforms...they're pretty much quick, dirty ports and has been discussed elsewhere I believe...so it's not exclusive to the WiiU.

I don't believe we disagree that much tbh...I believe we disagree on certain things like integration and multiculturalism in Britain etc but when it comes to criticizing a country that stones, beheads it's citizens I'm right there with you in calling it abhorrent...

 

[blu]

Yeah, but I don't know what you mean specifically. Many iPad games aren't 2048x1536? Well, no shit. That's a mental resolution.

And I thought that was the advertised resolution of the device.

I bet none of them have a vertical resolution of 360 pixels.

Possibly because none of them are 1:1 arcade ports.

 

[Sandfox]

Sorry not a tech head, but I thought the audio only supports linear pcm 5.1. No Dolby support. which I believe sucks support wise. but should sound great because it is uncompressed, if you get a compatible hdmi receiver. correct me if I am wrong

I don't think it was ever outright confirmed whether it had Dolby support or not.

 

[Donnie]

I can't buy those excuses when during any other generational transition we'd already have:

a game that actually looks significantly better than anything on PS360.

New consoles often display a significant advantage over past gen even in some games very early on because they're often 10x more powerful (or more). Obviously WiiU won't be at that level of improvement. But that has no relevance to whether or not WiiU games will improve a lot as its SDK improves and as developers learn the hardware more just like with any other new console, they will obviously.

 

[beril]

That doesn't matter. Normally, the very first wave of software is a clear and unquestionable step above what the 'old' consoles could do.

No one is expecting it to be a 10x leap from ps3/xbox360. At that price point, and at that size, with all its features plus the controller that would be ridiculous to expect. The 360 was a big noisy power hungry beast that overheated every now and then, and its original 300$ sku was extremely barebone. The PS3 was 600$. And both were sold at massive losses.

With a smaller leap it'll be harder to spot. It could be anywhere between 1-4x as powerful and it would still be hard to see. Most of the games we're seeing now are ports and the few exclusives aren't really the types of games you'd normaly use as a graphic benchmark. Maybe Zombie U, but Ubisoft launch titles usually aren't very impressive. Personally I think The Wonderful 101 looks pretty damn incredible in some areas, but it's hard to find a good comparison

 

[The_Lump]

You'll laugh, but I've seen nothing on ps360 that looks as lovely as some parts of NintendoLand. But there you go; "better" is subjective and unquantifiable in a medium which relies on art direction as much as it does visual effects.


Edit: Crummy screenshot, but who needs mega-specs? This looks awesome

 

[Meelow]

You'll laugh, but I've seen nothing on ps360 that looks as lovely as some parts of NintendoLand. But there you go; "better" is subjective and unquantifiable in a medium which relies on art direction as much as it does visual effects.

For a example this?

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

 

[ozfunghi]

Ok Ideaman, time to break out the good stuff. What increases are we talking about?

 

[Gahiggidy]

Curious, why in the better looking Wii U games does the lighting sometimes come off as super bright, like in that NL shot above? I almost have to squint, the lighting can be so brilliant. Is this a creative choice, or perhaps an artifact of more modern/dynamic lighting engines?

 

[The_Lump]

For a example this?

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

Yep. It's all in the details.

And to put it in dudebro terms: StarWars 1313, although stunning and for various reasons impossible on current gen consoles, is not a gargantuan leap over current gen games. Again its down to details like lighting, particle effects, physics, higher-res textures, higher screen resolution and tesselation. You might not pick these improvements/effects out individually - but as a whole it adds greatly to the games aesthetics.

 

[antonz]

I just want to point out the obvious that at least should be for most.

The Wii U launch outside of maybe a few exceptions like NSMB and Nintendo Land are all games not made from the ground up for the system and even NSMB etc are likely still heavily wii based

Which the source of this very thread even pointed out when he said he cant wait to see the hardware shine with games made from the ground up for it.

 

[Meelow]

Yep. It's all in the details.

And to put it in dudebro terms: StarWars 1313, although stunning and for various reasons impossible on current gen consoles, is not a gargantuan leap over current gen games. Again its down to details like lighting, particle effects, physics, higher-res textures, higher screen resolution and tesselation. You might not pick these improvements/effects out individually - but as a whole it adds greatly to the games aesthetics.

I agree, it just goes to show that Wii U games built from the ground up will look amazing.

And I agree with you about Star Wars 1313, it looks great graphically but it's no PS2 to PS3 jump or Wii to Wii U.

 

[The_Lump]

I just want to point out the obvious that at least should be for most.

The Wii U launch outside of maybe a few exceptions like NSMB and Nintendo Land are all games not made from the ground up for the system and even NSMB etc are likely still heavily wii based

Which the source of this very thread even pointed out when he said he cant wait to see the hardware shine with games made from the ground up for it.

This should be obvious, yes. Doesn't seem to be to some however.

I agree, it just goes to show that Wii U games built from the ground up will look amazing.

And I agree with you about Star Wars 1313, it looks great graphically but it's no PS2 to PS3 jump or Wii to Wii U.

I think whatever EAD Tokyo (& Retro) put out next will knock a few people's socks off. If Nintendo's first effort with the new hardware is NL, then I'm confident they are going to produce some stunning games visually.

 

[majik13]

You'll laugh, but I've seen nothing on ps360 that looks as lovely as some parts of NintendoLand. But there you go; "better" is subjective and unquantifiable in a medium which relies on art direction as much as it does visual effects.


Edit: Crummy screenshot, but who needs mega-specs? This looks awesome

but....omgjnsdafjkkiddie!

Spoiler

it looks lovely and I cant wait to play NL

 

[Meelow]

I think whatever EAD Tokyo (& Retro) put out next will knock a few people's socks off. If Nintendo's first effort with the new hardware is NL, then I'm confident they are going to produce some stunning games visually.

Definitely, imagine with the 3D Mario will look like, Mario Galaxy looked amazing and to some degree can compete with some Xbox 360 games graphically, I would love to see what Epic or Crytek could do with a built from the ground up for the Wii U.

And people say Pikmin 3 looks like a Wii game but I laughed at that because those people forgot what Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2 looked like and Pikmin 3 isn't even built from the ground up, most of it's development was on Wii.

 

[Ryoku]

Why is everybody so sure that the GPU in the WiiU is E6760 based? This Chip is capable of "DirectX 11" Shader Model5/openGL 4.0 and we KNOW that the WiiU Chip can't do that. (Based on OP's rumor)

The OP Rumor states that the GPU "supports Shader Model 4.0 (DirectX 10.1 and OpenGL 3.3 equivalent functionality)", which actually looks exatly what the E4690 from the specsheet brings to the table... Combined with the first claims that the WiiU GPU is not even 2x 360, this paints a very clear picture for me..

The wiiU is much more likely running on a underclocked E4690 rather than a E6760. I want to be optimistic too, but even the most cautiously optimistic predictions have been smashed into bits in the past (see the espresso fiasco).

No one is saying that the GPU in Wii U is based on the e6760. The belief is that the e6760 is probably the most similar to Wii U's GPU, out of all GPU candidates.

BG, why was it again that you'd rather not use the AMD 7750 as a possible power reference to the Wii U's GPU (since that's similar to the 4850 and e6760, power-wise)?

 

[onQ123]

For a example this?

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

 

[Psychotext]

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

I'd say it's fairly similar to Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts (just minus the draw distance).

 

[Ryoku]

I haven't played LBP in a long time (it's my bro's PS3, which I haven't touched in many months), but does it run at 60FPS? I think I remember playing at 30FPS.

Also, Nintendo Land's lighting is all dynamic, and clearly uses global illumination (hesitant to say it, but maybe HBAO-level).

 

[Lonely1]

I hate when depth of field is overdone. Almost ruined Flower for me.

 

[Ryoku]

I hate when depth of field is overdone. Almost ruined Flower for me.

I loved Flower, but this screen of LBP looks like someone spread vaseline over it.

 

[JordanN]

The lighting is so much better in that Nintendoland screenshot than what the PS3/360 are capable of.

Also, if you look closely, you can see some kind of glossy reflection on the mario look alike. Really gives a strong sense of the character being a toy.

Edit: The reflections are also on the hands.

 

[Plinko]

That LBP shot is terrible because of that depth of field blur. I HATE when games do that. NSMB2 did that and it's terrible.

Good looking game, though.

 

[StickSoldier]

That LBP shot is terrible because of that depth of field blur. I HATE when games do that. NSMB2 did that and it's terrible.

Good looking game, though.

Glad I'm not the only person who hated it in NSMB 2. I have to play without 3D on because it's just a blur in the background.

 

[VariantX]

That LBP shot is terrible because of that depth of field blur. I HATE when games do that. NSMB2 did that and it's terrible.

Good looking game, though.

Couldn't agree more about the DOF. Little Big Planet just went overboard with it. It doesn't look like theres much depth as all of a sudden it just gets blurry while in Nintendoland its far more subtle and tastefully done.

 

[ozfunghi]

Please lets not get into comparing screenshots unless it's from the same game on different harware... and even then.

 

[ffdgh]

For a example this?

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

i must say its so......shiny...as in well lit.

 

[shinra-bansho]

In answer to the question above - LBP2 is capped at 30 fps I believe.

I was just looking at some of the high quality press assets - (can someone techie elaborate on if) there is a reason for the lack of AA?

 

[The_Lump]

That doesnt prove/disprove anything. And that's the point. To me LBP doesn't look anywhere close to NL in terms of lighting, shadows and textures. And AA. To you, it might. Who's to say who's right? It's unquantifiable.

I hate when depth of field is overdone. Almost ruined Flower for me.

Couldn't agree more about the DOF. Little Big Planet just went overboard with it. It doesn't look like theres much depth as all of a sudden it just gets blurry while in Nintendoland its far more subtle and tastefully done.

Please lets not get into comparing screenshots unless it's from the same game on different harware... and even then.

Might be because it's faux-DOF. I think, anyway. It's sort of cheating rather than a true DOF effect.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

For a example this?

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

I don't know why, but I particularly like the Piranha Plant machine in the background. It looks really nice.

 

[JasoNsider]

I'd like to say we can live in a world where both Nintendoland and Little Big Planet look phenomenal. I have to take my hat off to the team who did Nintendoland, though...they could have just phoned in regular styles but the materials used are quite charming. Seriously good stuff there

 

[shinra-bansho]

NintendoLand is technically very pretty. I still find the Miis a horrible affront to my aesthetic sensibilities.

 

[The_Lump]

I'd like to say we can live in a world where both Nintendoland and Little Big Planet look phenomenal. I have to take my hat off to the team who did Nintendoland, though...they could have just phoned in regular styles but the materials used are quite charming. Seriously good stuff there

They really do both look stunning. As do many current gen games and so will Wii u games. We should just be happy with that.

 

[ironcreed]

I just want to point out the obvious that at least should be for most.

The Wii U launch outside of maybe a few exceptions like NSMB and Nintendo Land are all games not made from the ground up for the system and even NSMB etc are likely still heavily wii based

Which the source of this very thread even pointed out when he said he cant wait to see the hardware shine with games made from the ground up for it.

This what I am excited to see. All we have are some ports and launch titles. As for the launch titles, it is common knowledge that games start to look much better over the course of a console's cycle. Not to mention that since we are not looking at a PS2-PS3 type of jump here, the differences are not going to be so glaringly obvious anyway. The Wii U is supposed to be just a bit more powerful, not a full generational leap and I think it will subtly show more and more over time what it can do. Put this into perspective and give it time, guys. The thing is not even out yet, lol.

 

[snowdog1971]

Yeah, but I don't know what you mean specifically. Many iPad games aren't 2048x1536? Well, no shit. That's a mental resolution.

I bet none of them have a vertical resolution of 360 pixels.


That doesn't matter. Normally, the very first wave of software is a clear and unquestionable step above what the 'old' consoles could do.

Erm...you obviously can't recall the 360 launch lol.

You'll always have a few titles that are a step above current gen consoles but the vast majority of games look no different.

For the U we've seen lighting and shadows beyond current gen in ZombiU and Pikmin 3, 'next gen' draw distance in Lego City Undercover, improved graphics for FIFA and Aliens Colonial Marines is supposed to be a step above too. And then you've got to take into account the v-synch enabled on Assassins Creed 3 and Arkham City so the U SKU will look better than the PS3 and 360 SKUs whenever you move the camera. And as far as downloadable stuff goes Trine 2 looks stunning and Nano Assault Neo also looks good.

So far I'd say that generally the lighting, shadows and depth of field in several games have been 'next gen' quality.

 

[Instro]

For a example this?

I haven't seen one PS3/360 game that looks just as good lighting wise, and I think the textures and detail are great.

I like the DoF on display here, its really gradual as you look further into the screen.

 

[XenodudeX]

Erm...you obviously can't recall the 360 launch lol.

You'll always have a few titles that are a step above current gen consoles but the vast majority of games look no different.

For the U we've seen lighting and shadows beyond current gen in ZombiU and Pikmin 3, 'next gen' draw distance in Lego City Undercover, improved graphics for FIFA and Aliens Colonial Marines is supposed to be a step above too. And then you've got to take into account the v-synch enabled on Assassins Creed 3 and Arkham City so the U SKU will look better than the PS3 and 360 SKUs whenever you move the camera. And as far as downloadable stuff goes Trine 2 looks stunning and Nano Assault Neo also looks good.

So far I'd say that generally the lighting, shadows and depth of field in several games have been 'next gen' quality.

Ehh.. I think this is a bit of a stretch..

 

[majik13]

I haven't played LBP in a long time (it's my bro's PS3, which I haven't touched in many months), but does it run at 60FPS? I think I remember playing at 30FPS.

Also, Nintendo Land's lighting is all dynamic, and clearly uses global illumination (hesitant to say it, but maybe HBAO-level).

It does look like there is global illumination. But I am not seeing Ambient Occlusion really. if that is what HBAO stands for. Maybe it is built into some of the textures?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Erm...you obviously can't recall the 360 launch lol.

You'll always have a few titles that are a step above current gen consoles but the vast majority of games look no different.

Are we still downplaying the 360's launch and pretending that the technological improvement over the 6th gen systems wasn't significantly more than what is likely with the Wii U over the 7th gen HD systems?

(And probably more than we'll see with the PS4 and 720 as well.)

 

[bgassassin]

No one is saying that the GPU in Wii U is based on the e6760. The belief is that the e6760 is probably the most similar to Wii U's GPU, out of all GPU candidates.

BG, why was it again that you'd rather not use the AMD 7750 as a possible power reference to the Wii U's GPU (since that's similar to the 4850 and e6760, power-wise)?

Because that was a PC-to-PC comparison so that wouldn't have been an accurate comparison for what we've been working with. By that I mean the 7750 on paper would be a better performer than what Wii U has. So when you say Wii U's GPU would be like the 7750 performance-wise, I can't agree because a 7750 in a console would see much better utilization than in the PC and in turn perform even better causing it to continue to be more powerful than U's GPU.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I like the DoF on display here, its really gradual as you look further into the screen.

Do you think it belongs in Pikmin 3? Besides the cut scenes? I find blurring the background action in that game, when its only, like, 12-18 inches away, distracting.

I do wonder if this effect on Wii U is highly tunable. Where you can make it very subtle and would have to look closely to notice the effect applied.

 

[majik13]

Do you think it belongs in Pikmin 3? Besides the cut scenes? I find blurring the background action in that game, when its only, like, 12-18 inches away, distracting.

I do wonder if this effect on Wii U is highly tunable. Where you can make it very subtle and would have to look closely to notice the effect applied.

I think it does. Like a tilt shift lens, it makes things look even smaller/miniature, which is kinda the point with pikmin. It plays with scale a lot. In real world terms, if you were to zoom into something at a micro level, the way lenses work is you get stronger depth of field. It definitely helps augment that feeling.

And I have to say, the first time they showed pikmin 3 at e3, I noticed the great DOF right away, and it seems a lot of wii u games have been showing a more accurate DOF than current gen consoles. A lot cleaner, more accurate, more subtlety, and less artifacts.

 

[NBtoaster]

I haven't played LBP in a long time (it's my bro's PS3, which I haven't touched in many months), but does it run at 60FPS? I think I remember playing at 30FPS.

Also, Nintendo Land's lighting is all dynamic, and clearly uses global illumination (hesitant to say it, but maybe HBAO-level).

LBP2 does actually use some real time approximation of global illumination too:

 

[chertipros]

seeing nintendo land right before seeing that makes it look ugly in comparison IMO but I think you could have chose a better screenshot than that

 

[beril]

Are we still downplaying the 360's launch and pretending that the technological improvement over the 6th gen systems wasn't significantly more than what is likely with the Wii U over the 7th gen HD systems?

(And probably more than we'll see with the PS4 and 720 as well.)

I think the original xbox launch is a better comparison. That console was a beast compared to the PS2, but I don't really think any of the launch titles really proved it. Halo was impressive, but games like FFX and MGS2 had it beat in several departments, and those were still early PS2 games, as opposed to the current best looking ps360 games which were released 5-6 years into the generation.

In actual numbers there might be bigger difference between Wii U and Ps3/360 compared to PS2-xbox, but the xbox was a bigger difference in architecture and could do lot's of things that just wasn't possible on PS2. Though it also has some severe drawbacks compared to the PS2 which hopefully we won't see in the Wii U case.