You sure can.
What is your take on this whole "Enhanced Broadway" stuff. Surely an "Enhanced Broadway" will find it very difficult or impossible to run games like Assassins Creed 3 unless "Enhanced" means something entirely different.
You sure can.
I was thinking similar this morning. If Nintendo save their graphical showcase for too close to the 720/PS4 reveal, they run the risk of looking rather foolish. If they'd had something to show earlier it could have helped them in the lead up to launch.
Killzone 2 graphics quality was achieved though.
5 processes per core, where did that come from? So each core is more like a separate CPU with multiple cores? Surely you can't get 5 threads using hyper threading, or can you?
I didn't, but rather common convention has; presumably because despite that 100% difference and first release roughly the same span after the Saturn as before the Dreamcast - it wasn't seen as a big enough increase in power over the Saturn and PS1 to be considered a new generation.Not what I was saying.
You were trying to use examples of how power defined a generation. Great.
But then, for some reason, you decide it's ok to lump 32/64bit in together, even though there is a 100% difference between the two.
Don't worry about it. He's confusing an imaginary number for IPC (instructions per clock) with SMT (symmetrical multi-threading). In either case there is no evidence that 5 is an accurate measure of the WiiU CPU's capabilities.
I didn't, but rather common convention has; presumably because despite that 100% difference and first release roughly the same span after the Saturn as before the Dreamcast - it wasn't seen as a big enough increase in power over the Saturn and PS1 to be considered a new generation.
Given the WiiU CPU is meant to have out of order execution, the idea of an enhanced Broadway is quite vague here. It's definitely not 3 Broadway cores on a single die.What is your take on this whole "Enhanced Broadway" stuff. Surely an "Enhanced Broadway" will find it very difficult or impossible to run games like Assassins Creed 3 unless "Enhanced" means something entirely different.
You should presumably ask someone alive during those eras who discerned a generational leap between Pong and Pitfall. It could be, I assume, that the former's hardware wasn't technically capable of the games seen on the latter.So why's the 4bit to 8 bit considered enough??
Killzone 2 graphics quality was achieved though.
Killzone 2 graphics quality was achieved though.
Not the entire package. For one the animation was totally different.
Ahem, in a modern specs sheet, how do you know how many "bits" the console has (I mean by that 16but, 32bit, 128bit, etc.). It is the bus width of the GPU ?
OK, and is this info easily obtainable or can we derivate it from other specs ?Usually it's the register/pointer size of the CPU.
You have lherre, Arkam, EatChildren, someone who decided to call themselves Espresso on B3D, IdeaMan but in a more optimistic fashion, and whoever Eurogamer's sources are corroborating spec/SDK copy/pasta leaks.
I don't give rumors more credibility because we do not have more specific official information.That's the best anyone's going to get. And really more than most expected to get until someone tears it apart and puts it under a microscope or something.
That's not exactly true, but it's fine if you believe that. Regardless, it doesn't make these rumors any more or less reliable.There's been very little public comment on specifics regarding the hardware - until Iwata confirmed a few things in Nintendo direct. You have people saying things like "Oh it's great, blah blah." which is essentially meaningless - as they've got PR hats on.
Or it could simply be that Nintendo has a list of preferred developers whom they like to work more closely with. And these lucky developers receive the newest dev kits first, and are told more specific information about the final hardware before other developers. If you want to define that as a conspiracy then ok. But I'm sure that this is quite common, especially when a company is trying to keep certain elements of their product a secret.It could be some huge Nintendo conspiracy wherein they've given different devkits and there are better devkits and no one knows who got what - what an awesome way to cultivate developer relations - or it could just be Occam's Razor.
I particularly love the ultra-generic human heads used in this mockup - as if they were downloaded off turbosquid. Oh well, PR suits and their 'we have to show something amazing!'What KZ2 did you play lol. Character models, hair, particle effects, animation, scale of environment, cloth physics, 16xAA. The limitless amount of polygons will never be achieved, unless it's a CG cutscene, like uh....the KZ2 unveil trailer. To even come close to that, tesselation and POM needs to be used and back then, yeah, no game used those effects, since they are DX11 effects.
What Guerilla Games have achieved is a great looking game, one of the best imo, but it's nowhere close to the CG trailer they showed.
Look at that goddam tire, probably more polygons than on the entire screen of the real KZ2/3.
It was good enough and much more than most of us expected. The game still looks amazing.
OK, and is this info easily obtainable or can we derivate it from other specs ?
I would be curious to see in what bit-generation the WiiU is. Simple nostalgia.
What KZ2 did you play lol. Character models, hair, particle effects, animation, scale of environment, cloth physics, 16xAA. The limitless amount of polygons will never be achieved, unless it's a CG cutscene, like uh....the KZ2 unveil trailer. To even come close to that, tesselation and POM needs to be used and back then, yeah, no game used those effects, since they are DX11 effects.
What Guerilla Games have achieved is a great looking game, one of the best imo, but it's nowhere close to the CG trailer they showed.
Look at that goddam tire, probably more polygons than on the entire screen of the real KZ2/3.
Future proofing as well as allowing many of the features that can be used outside of games in-game like, a full featured web browser, would be my guess.Why does the wiiu need so much ram for the OS? shouldnt 512 be enough?
That's a lot of insiders you named there. And all of those people didn't know that Wii U had 2gigs of total system memory? Or did they all just feel the extra gig wasn't worth mentioning? I think that 1gig "that applications can use" number comes from a non-final version of the Wii U dev kit.
I don't give rumors more credibility because we do not have more specific official information.
That's not exactly true, but it's fine if you believe that. Regardless, it doesn't make these rumors any more or less reliable.
Or it could simply be that Nintendo has a list of preferred developers whom they like to work more closely with. And these lucky developers receive the newest dev kits first, and are told more specific information about the final hardware before other developers. If you want to define that as a conspiracy then ok. But I'm sure that this is quite common, especially when a company is trying to keep certain elements of their product a secret.
There is a certain narrative in rumor topics, such as this one, and going against that narrative seems to be discouraged, not by the mods mind you, but by other gafers.
If people ask certain questions, with the intent of determining the credibility and accuracy of the source in question, then I think it should be encouraged. If those important and relevant questions can not be answered, for whatever reason, then it would make sense to remain skeptical.
This is not a question of "do you trust the mods?" as their credibility is not in question. To my knowledge the mods who have directly commented on Wii U specs are not Wii U developers, and neither are some of the sources. This is where the possibility for error lies as we receive 2nd and even 3rd hand information.
What we have in this topic looks to me like a circle of self confirmations, and other people corroborating the people who probably were the source of their own information. I was attempting to dig through all of that red tape, and find a single, credible and non-anonymous source, that is confirmed to be working on the final spec Wii U dev kits.
New information in the rumor isn't even specific, but rather so vague that it could be interpreted in very different ways. This is especially true of the "enhanced Broadway" spec. Using that kind of terminology to describe the CPU, and omitting half of the ram, says to me that the source of the rumor is probably someone who does not have access to the final dev kits and its specifications.
So... WiiU is 64-bit like the Nintendo 64. And now that I think of it, the Xbox came with a Pentium III which calculates number up to 32 bit long. That means the "128-bit" generation was an abusive expression. Thanks !The Broadway was a 32-bit CPU, POWER7 is 64-bit I believe. I don't know what the Wii U will have, although IBM has said at least twice it uses a POWER7-derivative.
What KZ2 did you play lol. Character models, hair, particle effects, animation, scale of environment, cloth physics, 16xAA. The limitless amount of polygons will never be achieved, unless it's a CG cutscene, like uh....the KZ2 unveil trailer. To even come close to that, tesselation and POM needs to be used and back then, yeah, no game used those effects, since they are DX11 effects.
What Guerilla Games have achieved is a great looking game, one of the best imo, but it's nowhere close to the CG trailer they showed.
Look at that goddam tire, probably more polygons than on the entire screen of the real KZ2/3.
Bgassasian and Ideaman said the system might have 2 gigs in total instead of 1.5 gigs a month ago before Iwata confirmed the number.
tesselation and POM needs to be used and back then, yeah, no game used those effects, since they are DX11 effects.
For those of you calling bullshits please see this link:
Official screenshots from darksiders 2 WII-U version not pc version scaled down the Wii-U version. This week as well
This is from The Verge a trustworthy site as well.
Please stop the Wii-U is going to be a player next gen.
I'm on iPad so if someone wants to post the images feel free.
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/9/14/3330908/darksiders-2-wii-u-screenshots#3786553
3 cores, 5 processes per core.
You sure can.
Textures look fucking great in Killzone:
The bitness matter is a tricky one. Many N-bit CPUs have M-bit registers (where M > N) for various specialized purposes. For instance, the venerable x86 has 80bit 'extended precision' (IIRC) fp registers (well, technically a stack of those), which the FPU used either in full, or as 64- or 32-bit formats. Most PPCs since the beginning of the lineage have had double-precision (i.e. 64bit) FPUs while employing a 32bit general-purpose register file. And this is before even touching on SIMD register files. So the 128bitness was really reached a long time ago, just not in the general-purpose register file. The reason for that is that 128 bits are hardly justifiable for individual general-purpose scalars. Just to give you a hint - a 128bit uint used as a coordinate could span the known universe at the nm level.So... WiiU is 64-bit like the Nintendo 64. And now that I think of it, the Xbox came with a Pentium III which calculates number up to 32 bit long. That means the "128-bit" generation was an abusive expression. Thanks !
Sure. Probably makes the most sense with CIC (Clustered-Integer-Core), where each core has several parallel pipelines with their own execution units. Though as far as I'm aware, IBM never used that approach - it's a DEC Alpha and AMD Bulldozer thing.5 processes per core, where did that come from? So each core is more like a separate CPU with multiple cores? Surely you can't get 5 threads using hyper threading, or can you?
No one is denying that but the infamous trailer is CG.
Sure it is but the point is, if they would've had the gameplay trailer ready by this time it would've wowed the people the exact same way. Hell, it even did after they've shown it several years later. They pretty much fullfilled what they promised whitout going into details.
However, that's not the problem. I expect comapnies to exaggerate the quality of their products. The problem is that you claim Nintendo doesn't do that. They do, they do it heavily. Just think of "you will say wow". Or what they promised what Wii Motion control will bring to gaming and what it really brought. Stating that Nintendo "isn't lieing through it's teeth" it's pretty naive. If anything, they are among the worst and they make a shit load of money with that.
I said "wow". A different kind of "wow" but "wow" nevertheless
Sure it is but the point is, if they would've had the gameplay trailer ready by this time it would've wowed the people the exact same way. Hell, it even did after they've shown it several years later. They pretty much fullfilled what they promised whitout going into details.
However, that's not the problem. I expect comapnies to exaggerate the quality of their products. The problem is that you claim Nintendo doesn't do that. They do, they do it heavily. Just think of "you will say wow". Or what they promised what Wii Motion control will bring to gaming and what it really brought. Stating that Nintendo "isn't lieing through it's teeth" it's pretty naive. If anything, they are among the worst and they make a shit load of money with that.
I said "wow" when I saw SMG
And Motion control bought me back into gaming.
That statement was related to Wii Sports. And i said wow it looks like shit.I said "wow" when I saw SMG
And Motion control bought me back into gaming.
The very nice artstyle of SMG doesn't compensate for the tons of games which looked like shit from 2001, even worse because upscaled on an HDTV.
The concept of motion control was great, the execution an ugly accident. It could've been so much better but it wasn't even close to what Nintendo made us believen beforehand. Instead of proofing their concept with a new generation, they pussy out and throw an underpowered DS clone on the market.
I'm guessing no one, not even the most hardcore ninty fanboys here on GAF, are as excited for Wii U as they were for Wii back then.
Sorry, you missed out on some key words in my post.
"I" and "me"
I don't care what you thought about it, or what you think I should think.
So I'll repeat.
I said "wow" when I saw SMG
And Motion control bought me back into gaming.
Not sure if I meet 'the most hardocre of ninty fanboys' criterion but I am way more excited for WiiU than I was for Wii, and I love IR aiming. Must be something about the launch (window) lineup of both consoles.I'm guessing no one, not even the most hardcore ninty fanboys here on GAF, are as excited for Wii U as they were for Wii back then.
Textures look fucking great in Killzone:
That's a lot of insiders you named there. And all of those people didn't know that Wii U had 2gigs of total system memory? Or did they all just feel the extra gig wasn't worth mentioning? I think that 1gig "that applications can use" number comes from a non-final version of the Wii U dev kit.
Well, that's smart.
The very nice artstyle of SMG doesn't compensate for the tons of games which looked like shit from 2001, even worse because upscaled on an HDTV.
The concept of motion control was great, the execution an ugly accident. It could've been so much better but it wasn't even close to what Nintendo made us believen beforehand. Instead of proofing their concept with a new generation, they pussy out and throw an underpowered DS clone on the market.
I'm guessing no one, not even the most hardcore ninty fanboys here on GAF, are as excited for Wii U as they were for Wii back then.
You are making the quick assumption of thinking that there wouldn't be a learning curve involved in developing games for the PS4/720.
meh. not impressed.
1823 is 2.5x Wii CPU clock though (rounded up).
That's ok because they haven't paired it with a modern GPU
It's a shame though if WiiU doesn't stretch it's legs until later in 2013, because by then you'll have shots and clips of PS4/720 stuff coming through. Perhaps understandable from 3rd par devs with a limited budget/time, but perhaps Nintendo should have pushed to get something more graphically advanced out for launch - pikmin 3 is the best coming up and even that isn't exactly pushing anything