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[Blasty]

If you already know what you want that's one thing. Some people don't know what they want though. They just know they want a new piece of technology to have fun with. It could be a console or a tablet or even a phone. The thing is they're on a limited budget, so buying one prevents them from buying another. They're competing products even if not directly.

That means nearly everything is competing with nearly everything. If that's the case, it makes no sense whatsoever to act as if tablets are threatening consoles and not say the same thing with every electronic.

 

[chertipros]

Dont worry you and me are safe!

Look at this image from Darksiders 2 from THQ it's from the Wii-U edition and not a single issue with AA for me. Give developers a little more time and gen 2 of Wii-U games will blow away what we get now...

Also remember guys and gals this is a single screen shot and sometime in MOTION these things are not noticeable at all.

That's has to be a bullshot

 

[onQ123]

I really hate the "is it next gen?" discussion. It was already stupid with the Wii, as "generation" is about time and succession, not power. But yeah, the hardware itself, or at least the parts doing the number crunching, were actually really old. That is not the case with Wii U, regardless of its performance. To make that clearer: A Radeon 7730M and a 7990 are both same generation hardware from 2012, both are 28nm Southern Island chips, yet the latter is almost 20 times as fast as the former. Let that sink for a moment. Same generation, 20 times performance difference. Neither the next Xbox nor the next Playstation will be 20 times as fast as Wii U.

But what if the Wii U GPU is from the HD 6000 series & the PS4 & Xbox Next GPU is from the HD 8000 series would that put them 2 generations apart?

 

[djyella]

I'm still tingling from the Bayonetta announcement.

So out of nowhere.

As I was Wii only this gen, never got to play it but I love the fact that the sequel has been revived by Nintendo as an exclusive Platinum will be getting lots of money from me. Oh and salty tears LOL I don't think I've laughed so hard for so many days over anything on the net like I did over the reactions to that announcement. If the rumor about Nintendo going to third parties and asking them about reviving old/dead IPs is true we could see more of this hahaha.

 

[Kai Dracon]

This is a simplistic analogy but my own expectation for how Wii U will seem better than this gen, in the long run, is like comparing 3DS games to Wii games.

3DS is technologically more advanced than the Wii in a lot of areas, such as its shader support. However, in terms of outright raw power, it is weaker in some ways.

As a result, some 3DS games, mostly early ones, are slightly less advanced that top Wii games like Mario Galaxy. But in many ways, most 3DS games look much nicer than any Wii game.

Over time, I am expecting most Wii U games will not exceed the finest performance of the PS360 when measured by a few criteria. But, especially in games built for the console from the ground up, the stronger GPU will end up making a lot of things look much nicer than the best PS360 titles. And the increase in ram will greatly improve average texture quality, promoting more visual consistency. Also help with loading schemes.

In short it comes back to what I had originally theorized - Wii U could be seen as this generation's HD consoles but optimized, with their bottlenecks and inadequacies removed. Such as chugging framerates when the pretties are turned on, lack of AA in too many games, wildly inconsistent texture quality sometimes even within the same game. And many games not hitting 720p.

 

[ozfunghi]

But what if the Wii U GPU is from the HD 6000 series & the PS4 & Xbox Next GPU is from the HD 8000 series would that put them 2 generations apart?

GPU series =/= console generations

 

[pieatorium]

Assuming Wii U is at minimum 2x PS3.

20x Wii U = 80 million polygons per frame.

That's 13x more polygons than the original Toy Story!

For the record, it took Square Enix a whole GTX 680 to match Toy Story's polycount.

I think your math is wrong or somr of the numbers used for it at least

13 toy stories divided by 20 would mean the WiiU gpu is 0.65 x a GTX680 I dont think that matches up with anythin we have heard on the WiiU's GPU

 

[jett]

Dont worry you and me are safe!

Look at this image from Darksiders 2 from THQ it's from the Wii-U edition and not a single issue with AA for me. Give developers a little more time and gen 2 of Wii-U games will blow away what we get now...

Also remember guys and gals this is a single screen shot and sometime in MOTION these things are not noticeable at all.

:lol Are you serious? It's a downsampled bullshot from a much higher resolution.

 

[bgassassin]

Ok, here's the story behind that mem split so people can stop asking '1GB for the OS?!?':

It's not really 1GB for the OS. There's a dark (non-homebrew) secret surround the second megabyte of DDR3 confined in that little "fun" box.. But the truth is bound to see the light of day, and once freed will it never succumb again! Ready? Hold tight, here it comes..

It's 32MB for the OS, and 992MB for Iwata himself. That's right - he owns that memory, and he grants it to whomever he pleases, kind of like money-hatting, only RAM-hatting, and in reverse. And he never gives it out in bulk, no sir, he drips it by the single MB. Buy him a dinner - here's a MB for you. Treat him to the services of a young lady - get another MB in return. Get him an expensive present (I hear he likes gold-plated game'n'watch chocolate replicas) - yet another MB. But pledge to him your game's exclusivity and that's 5MB straight!

So, next time you see a good-looking WiiU exclusive, even if it's only a timed one (and even if it's 1st party - Iwata makes no exceptions for his own!), think of all those sacrifices that had to be made to Iwata, so that game could reach you in all its splendor.

It all makes sense now. :O

Honestly, that hurt my feelings.

I thought I was being cogent.

I wasn't being harsh on the system. It's got more than enough power for any idea I've got in my head. Sure they can be improved by more, but it's not like that's everything.

I was hoping to be insightful, while still covering a bevy of issues in front of the console. It's not like it's a secret that Nintendo has a spotty history with 3rd party developers and that it will take a huge marketshare advantage and great 3rd party game sales to calm those fears.

I like to think of myself as one of the strangest but articulate Nintendo fans.

Was it confusing?

bg!

Help!

I don't know what to do!

I got a funny tasting Sprite from Popeye's only to notice a fig was in there. You're probably just a little out of sync right now.

*gives TM back his fig*

*continues drinking Sprite*

 

[wsippel]

But what if the Wii U GPU is from the HD 6000 series & the PS4 & Xbox Next GPU is from the HD 8000 series would that put them 2 generations apart?

It would put the GPU two generations apart, not the system itself. But the Wii U is no off-the-shelf Radeon anyway, it's a custom chip from 2011.

 

[JordanN]

This is a simplistic analogy but my own expectation for how Wii U will seem better than this gen, in the long run, is like comparing 3DS games to Wii games.

3DS is technologically more advanced than the Wii in a lot of areas, such as its shader support. However, in terms of outright raw power, it is weaker in some ways.

As a result, some 3DS games, mostly early ones, are slightly less advanced that top Wii games like Mario Galaxy. But in many ways, most 3DS games look much nicer than any Wii game.

Over time, I am expecting most Wii U games will not exceed the finest performance of the PS360 when measured by a few criteria. But, especially in games built for the console from the ground up, the stronger GPU will end up making a lot of things look much nicer than the best PS360 titles. And the increase in ram will greatly improve average texture quality, promoting more visual consistency. Also help with loading schemes.

In short it comes back to what I had originally theorized - Wii U could be seen as this generation's HD consoles but optimized, with their bottlenecks and inadequacies removed. Such as chugging framerates when the pretties are turned on, lack of AA in too many games, wildly inconsistent texture quality sometimes even within the same game. And many games not hitting 720p.

Oh my god, Wii U isn't weaker than PS3/360.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Oh my god, Wii U isn't weaker than PS3/360.

Is this drunk Nintendo fan day or something?

If it is I need to catch up.

 

[BY2K]

:lol Are you serious? It's a downsampled bullshot from a much higher resolution.

A Vigil dev on one of the dev interviews at the Press Event did say the Wii U version looks better. (Hoping it's true, though.)

 

[onQ123]

GPU series =/= console generations

It would put the GPU two generations apart, not the system itself. But the Wii U is no off-the-shelf Radeon anyway, it's a custom chip from 2011.

NotSureIfSerious.jpg

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I got a funny tasting Sprite from Popeye's only to notice a fig was in there. You're probably just a little out of sync right now.

*gives TM back his fig*

*continues drinking Sprite*

I been saved!

 

[DynamicG]

Is this drunk Nintendo fan day or something?

If it is I need to catch up.

Nah, it's oversimplified stance day. Leave you nuance by the door.

 

[Meelow]

I'm still tingling from the Bayonetta announcement.

So out of nowhere.

I agree, makes me think what else Nintendo has in store for Wii U that's not announced yet.

Oh my god, Wii U isn't weaker than PS3/360.

I learned people that say the Wii U is weaker than PS3/360 or not next gen I just ignore because you truly lost them and won't convince them until you shove the specs in there face and tell them what the definition of "generation" means.

 

[DynamicG]

I agree, makes me think what else Nintendo has in store for Wii U that's not announced yet.

Metroid : Other M Nintendland DLC. It's coming.

 

[brochiller]

A Vigil dev on one of the dev interviews at the Press Event did say the Wii U version looks better. (Hoping it's true, though.)

That's promising. Still no way it looks like that shot though.

NotSureIfSerious.jpg

What's so confusing?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Nah, it's oversimplified stance day. Leave you nuance by the door.

Can I pretend it's drunk Nintendo fan day?

I agree, makes me think what else Nintendo has in store for Wii U that's not announced yet.

I just want to see what Retro and EAD Tokyo are working on. They haven't let me down yet.

I learned people that say the Wii U is weaker than PS3/360 or not next gen I just ignore because you truly lost them and won't convince them until you shove the specs in there face and tell them what the definition of "generation" means.

He wasn't saying anything close.

Kaijima I got yo back!

I don't even see how it could be confused. Getting rid of the bottlenecks of the PS3/360 while not being that much more powerful is calling it weaker?

 

[onQ123]

That's promising. Still no way it looks like that shot though.



What's so confusing?

The fact that they was responding as if that wasn't a joke.

 

[jett]

A Vigil dev on one of the dev interviews at the Press Event did say the Wii U version looks better. (Hoping it's true, though.)

It's not going to look like that picture.

 

[bgassassin]

*backs up TM backing up Kaijima*

Can I pretend it's drunk Nintendo fan day?

So you did mark your calendar to say "Every day is drunk Nintendo fan day".

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It's not going to look like that picture.

SWEAR TO ME!

*backs up TM backing up Kaijima*

So you did mark your calendar to say "Every day is drunk Nintendo fan day".

How else am I supposed to get 64 year old men to give me lap dances?

 

[shinra-bansho]

I really hate the "is it next gen?" discussion. It was already stupid with the Wii, as "generation" is about time and succession, not power.

Since we're back on this topic...

I don't see why people are so dead-set on there being some immutable definition, and that there can't be multiple subjective delimiters.

I'm not sure why people are ignoring that generations have been defined by "power" or perception thereof. 8 bit. 16 bit. 32/64 bit, 3D era. Not just a space of time.

There are consoles across generations that have released within a similar/shorter space of time than consoles considered within a generation.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Oh my god, Wii U isn't weaker than PS3/360.

Oh my god, I didn't say it was weaker than them.

I'm being conservative. Due to the CPU and depending on the application, certain very specific facets of a given game may not exceed the equivalent in something like Uncharted 2 in a Wii U game. But on the whole, everything else that is clearly much better should compensate for it.

May not exceed ! = weaker than.

We're dealing with hardcore gamer land and people who analyze and over analyze every detail in a game. I'm sure people are going to take apart every single Wii U game to determine if there's a single function in the game that isn't clearly superior to the best PS3 / 360 game.

Given the unknowns and controversy over the CPU, which seems to be the most questionable part of the entire system, I'm granting that for some applications it may not clearly exceed the current HD consoles.

Here's the thing. I'm not desperate to believe that Wii U will be 3 - 4 times as powerful as the 360 or the PS3. Therefore I'm being realistic. And setting lower expectations.

 

[JordanN]

I learned people that say the Wii U is weaker than PS3/360 or not next gen I just ignore because you truly lost them and won't convince them until you shove the specs in there face and tell them what the definition of "generation" means.

It's not even about specs, it's about common sense.

I don't need specs to know Wii U is running right now, a direct port of Ass Creed 3 which is already a "finest" of PS3/360.

I don't even see how it could be confused. Getting rid of the bottlenecks of the PS3/360 while not being that much more powerful is calling it weaker?

He made a comparison to 3DS/Wii in which factually, the 3DS processor is behind it in some ways.

Wii U is more powerful than PS3/360 in every way. There is no logical reason for any game to not exceed PS3/360's finest for any technical reason. Not when the same "finest" are already running on it to begin with. So for it go backwards from that is weird and unprecedented.

 

[Vic]

This is a simplistic analogy but my own expectation for how Wii U will seem better than this gen, in the long run, is like comparing 3DS games to Wii games.

3DS is technologically more advanced than the Wii in a lot of areas, such as its shader support. However, in terms of outright raw power, it is weaker in some ways.

As a result, some 3DS games, mostly early ones, are slightly less advanced that top Wii games like Mario Galaxy. But in many ways, most 3DS games look much nicer than any Wii game.

Over time, I am expecting most Wii U games will not exceed the finest performance of the PS360 when measured by a few criteria. But, especially in games built for the console from the ground up, the stronger GPU will end up making a lot of things look much nicer than the best PS360 titles. And the increase in ram will greatly improve average texture quality, promoting more visual consistency. Also help with loading schemes.

In short it comes back to what I had originally theorized - Wii U could be seen as this generation's HD consoles but optimized, with their bottlenecks and inadequacies removed. Such as chugging framerates when the pretties are turned on, lack of AA in too many games, wildly inconsistent texture quality sometimes even within the same game. And many games not hitting 720p.

Yup, that's how I see it as well.

 

[AzaK]

That's a bullshot. HAS to be.

Agreed. If Wii U looks like that then mods should ban mentioning PS3 and 360 in the same sentence as the Wii U.

In short it comes back to what I had originally theorized - Wii U could be seen as this generation's HD consoles but optimized, with their bottlenecks and inadequacies removed. Such as chugging framerates when the pretties are turned on, lack of AA in too many games, wildly inconsistent texture quality sometimes even within the same game. And many games not hitting 720p.

You need to tell Nintendo that based on the screens we've been seeing

 

[NBtoaster]

I wouldn't expect the AA and sub HD situation to get much better if/when it gets ports of next gen titles.

 

[bgassassin]

How else am I supposed to get 64 year old men to give me lap dances?

Denture cream?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

He made a comparison to 3DS/Wii in which factually, the 3DS processor is behind it in some ways.

Wii U is more powerful than PS3/360 in every way. There is no logical reason for any game to not exceed PS3/360's finest for any technical reason. Not when the same "finest" are already running on it to begin with. So for it go backwards from that is weird and unprecedented.

He admits in the very post you're attacking that the system itself is in most ways more powerful. The CPU would be the stickler, and it probably wouldn't, given everything we've heard about it, be so much more powerful than those in the 360/PS3 that unoptimized code would run easily on it.

GPU, RAM amount, eDram amount. All higher, of which is admitted.

But this system isn't going to be so much more powerful that budget won't play into it. And like it or not, I doubt Nintendo will set that high of a budget standard for their platform.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

It seems that quite a few gaf'rs saw these "specs" before the leak. Imo that doesn't make them more or less true. I asked for the source of the rumor, since he supposedly posted in this topic. And I asked what company he worked for, but no one knows the answer or are willing to give it. I personally can not give credibility in situations where the source is being cloak and dagger on what they know and who they work for.

I don't expect actual Wii U developers to break NDA, but when your rumors are this vague, nondescript and even inaccurate through omission. then you don't have a lot of credibility for people to take you seriously.



See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Learn what info? You said he confirmed some things about the Wii U hardware that are in the OP and I want to know what they are. What company does he work for? Is it a company who would have access to the latest dk's from Nintendo? If he's the source then maybe we can ask him why he omitted a whole extra gig of ram in his "leak"? As I already pointed out, none of the supposedly new information in the OP has been confirmed by Nintendo, one of their Wii U partners or a named developer who is actually known to be working closely with Nintendo on Wii U games.

All of this "wink wink I'm a dev" stuff is just not something people need to be forming conclusions around. It leads to circle logic type confirmations where the unproven anonymous source becomes the confirmation to their own rumors.

Too many people these days want to prop themselves up as an "insider" who knows unrevealed information. But the way I see it, any real authentic developers, who are actually working on the latest and best Wii U dev kits, will either say something publicly, where you know their name and what company they work for, or they will just keep quiet. Everyone else are just people in the industry who "heard this" or "saw that" but are not privy to exact information on the hardware.

Whoever "leaked" this info, either did not have access to final hardware, or they were purposely trying to present a certain narrative about the Wii U. Nothing supposedly new in this leak can be independently confirmed by a credible source, who is confirmed to be working closely with the latest Wii U hardware.

This would not be such a big deal if it weren't for the fact that the rumor claims this information to be "final Wii U specs", yet somehow fails to mention several real final details about the hardware in categories they gave specs on.

Such a great post. It's something I've wanted to say myself but couldn't put it in text form as eloquently as you did.

 

[brochiller]

I wouldn't expect the AA and sub HD situation to get much better if/when it gets ports of next gen titles.

I think it will get much better. People don't realize how much progress can be made over a console's lifetime. I posted this comparison before but check these screenshots of two Call of Duty games, both on Xbox 360.

 

[brochiller]

Such a great post. It's something I've wanted to say myself but couldn't put it in text form as eloquently as you did.

You guys do realize publicly revealing this information would put these poster's jobs in jeopardy right? They're not going to do that to themselves just so more people on here believe them.

The way it works is these people have supplied proof, privately, to mods on GAF, and they have subsequently informed us that they are indeed developers and are trusted sources of information. That's enough proof for me to have a lot of faith in what they say.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Such a great post. It's something I've wanted to say myself but couldn't put it in text form as eloquently as you did.

Unless the mods are jerking us around we know the leakers are legit. One of them isn't directly involved with the system, and he is who we have to thank for the "specs".

It's second hand. I'm willing to believe he's right.

 

[NBtoaster]

I think it will get much better. People don't realize how much progress can be made over a console's lifetime. I posted this comparison before but check these screenshots of two Call of Duty games, both on Xbox 360.

The problem I think is people expecting too much of the GPU. How will it cope with likely very GPU intensive games, that probably still target only 720p, while compensating for the CPU and trying to replicate DX11-caliber effects with GPU/API that doesn't fully support them, while also outputting something to the pad?

 

[DragonSworne]

You guys do realize publicly revealing this information would put these poster's jobs in jeopardy right? They're not going to do that to themselves just so more people on here believe them.

The way it works is these people have supplied proof, privately, to mods on GAF and they have subsequently informed us that they are indeed developers and are trusted sources of information. That's enough proof for me to have a lot of faith in what they say.

They just need to have an email address at the company...

They could be anyone, even HR, that works at the company and the mods wouldn't know the difference. Am I wrong?

 

[pieatorium]

Unless the mods are jerking us around we know the leakers are legit. One of them isn't directly involved with the system, and he is who we have to thank for the "specs".

It's second hand. I'm willing to believe he's right.

Especially since the one concrete piece of info we do have on the WiiU was part of his leak, more than 1 gig of ram but only 1 gig available for games.

 

[brochiller]

The problem I think is people expecting too much of the GPU. How will it cope with likely very GPU intensive games, that probably still target only 720p, while compensating for the CPU and trying to replicate DX11-caliber effects with GPU/API that doesn't fully support them, while also outputting something to the pad?

Well we definitely aren't going to see the kind of jump like I showed in my post but I think there will be noticeable improvement down the road. You're right though in that with some of the computing being handed to the GPU and the GPU not being all that great to begin with, it's going to be hard to keep up when the other two consoles come around.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

You guys do realize publicly revealing this information would put these poster's jobs in jeopardy right? They're not going to do that to themselves just so more people on here believe them.

The way it works is these people have supplied proof, privately, to mods on GAF, and they have subsequently informed us that they are indeed developers and are trusted sources of information. That's enough proof for me to have a lot of faith in what they say.

It's not just those two devs (?), there's been a few others who always hint at vague things and cite 'sources' (not talking about the one I'm not allowed to mention, either). People wanna be forum celebs. I just try to take everything with a solid block of uncut salt. I actually trust rumors/leaks from the big gaming websites much, much more than these forum leakers.

 

[bgassassin]

It's not just those two devs (?), there's been a few others who always hint at vague things and cite 'sources' (not talking about the one I'm not allowed to mention, either). People wanna be forum celebs. I just try to take everything with a solid block of uncut salt. I actually trust rumors/leaks from the big gaming websites much, much more than these forum leakers.

I'm sure you're looking forward to the next Xbox having a 6670.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I'm sure you're looking forward to the next Xbox having a 6670.

That rumor probably had more credibility at the time than most of these other leaks -- the biggest gaming site on the net posted it.

 

[bgassassin]

That rumor probably had more credibility at the time than most of these other leaks -- the biggest gaming site on the net posted it.

Yeah, I don't think that makes it more credible.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Yeah, I don't think that makes it more credible.

I'd believe IGN over vague forum posters, but that's just me.

 

[Mastperf]

I think it will get much better. People don't realize how much progress can be made over a console's lifetime. I posted this comparison before but check these screenshots of two Call of Duty games, both on Xbox 360.

That's just as much to do with developers getting used to the switch to HD and of the newer tech. People compare the WiiU launch games to 360 launch are way off base. The early WiiU games are greatly benefiting from developers working at this level for the past 7+ years. They have proven, advanced engines in place that are far better than they had at the launch of the 360. It's really not that difficult to show hardware superiority if it's there. The Xbox started outdoing the PS2 day 1 and never let up. I'm not saying the WiiU isn't more powerful, but I'm highly sceptical that it's to the level some are trying to make it out to be.

 

[Zoramon089]

I'd believe IGN over vague forum posters, but that's just me.

That's a mistake

 

[Phonomezer]

As I was Wii only this gen, never got to play it but I love the fact that the sequel has been revived by Nintendo as an exclusive Platinum will be getting lots of money from me. Oh and salty tears LOL I don't think I've laughed so hard for so many days over anything on the net like I did over the reactions to that announcement. If the rumor about Nintendo going to third parties and asking them about reviving old/dead IPs is true we could see more of this hahaha.

My condolences.

 

[bgassassin]

I'd believe IGN over vague forum posters, but that's just me.

Oh I don't want to sound like I'm trying to convince you otherwise. That's your choice to do so.

 

[djyella]

My condolences.

LOL, No I had a great time with my Wii. I still play wii sports to this day. Tennis is addictive. I have lots of games and most are 3rd party. The only things I really missed were the racing/ fighting games. When EA went the cartoon route with Madden I was pissed too haha. The laziness that some of the devs put forth was dissapointing considering the Wii was more capable than the GC. Still, there were plenty of games to keep me busy.