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[CyclopsRock]

If other methods of monetising media is more effective than expensive retail CDs, that's a problem for the record companies; The government's responsibility isn't that, it's in defining what counts as a crime and then enforcing punishments with the aim of lowering that crime rate. In that sense, the two issues are entirely separate.

 

[Shouta]

If you live there, why not record off of TV?

Still have to buy the equipment for that. It's easier to get it from someone that has done the work ahead over time.

 

[Alex Connolly]

If you live there, why not record off of TV?

He's talking about US shows, I'm guessing.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

He's talking about US shows, I'm guessing.

That makes sense.

 

[sprsk]

sprsk is there any more info on how this will affect Youtube?

In this article back in June, the lawyer who defended the Winny developers said that Youtube and NicoDouga would be covered under the law since they download while streaming.

http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/1206/20/news015.html

Which means that you could do 2 years in jail for looking at the wrong thing on Youtube.

Was there ever any more definitive info on this? As a huge Youtube user this is terrifying.

This is the tricky part, I'm not 100% on the details but from what I understand actually downloading or ripping from YouTube is illegal. Watching is fine unless you are watching fully knowing its available for purchase. (italics part I'm not sure about.)

 

[Gr1mLock]

Pirates will always win.

 

[Alex Connolly]

I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to these things, but how do they monitor or differentiate between, say, Steam downloading a game and a torrent? Is it at the mercy of ISPs? Raising flags via visiting particular sites? The upload/download rate?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is the tricky part, I'm not 100% on the details but from what I understand actually downloading or ripping from YouTube is illegal. Watching is fine unless you are watching fully knowing its available for purchase. (italics part I'm not sure about.)

It looks like any video service that uses progressive downloads could fall under this new law.

Merely watching a YouTube or Niconico video could get you prison time. It's insane.

 

[Sealda]

Has not Japan always been quite "bad" at internet compared to what you expect from them. Just not their thing...

Same applies to computers and software.

I was thinking about this the other day, when trying to watch some stream of that TSG presentation, that you still needed to be a member to watch Nico Nico...Truly felt like 2004 all over again...


Anyone remember when Japanese cellphones were like spaceships and western cellphones were like T-Fords

 

[decaf]

Just FYI folks, streaming has actually been declared not illegal with the amendment to this law. A lot of sites are misreporting this. In fact, the FAQ on this amendment also states downloading books and comics is actually not illegal too. Quite perplexing.

Key points from the Q&A below
• Streaming videos (YouTube et al.) is not illegal under the new law, as long as they are not downloaded or ripped (I know, streaming is downloading, but they don't consider this the case).
• Comics and books are not protected.
• Downloading TV shows which have been broadcasted but are not yet available to buy on DVD or Blu-ray is not considered illegal, but can still result in being sued as a civil offense. Uploading is illegal.
• Intent has to be proven to be prosecuted for downloading.
• E-mailing video and music files you have ripped yourself to friends is legal, although bypassing copyright protection is not.

Google Translate these Government Q&A PDFs for more info.

 

[Sinople]

So I'm watching Game Center CX on Youtube, am I going to jail?

Edit: apparently not.

 

[la_briola]

So has gatti-man asked for permission to use this avatar? Or is it under a non profit/share like you want license like creative commons? Or did he made it himself?
This is important!

 

[captmorgan]

I'm all for criminalizing piracy of things that you can readily buy in stores or online. But when it comes to out of print shows, shows that are not offered in your country, etc, I feel differently...

May I ask why you feel differently?

Lets say I make a game its an incredible Awesome game, and I decide I`m only going to sell it to 100 people thats it.

Do you feel you should be allowed to pirate it?

What if I decide to only give it to 10 close friends? or I decide to never distribute it but to keep it for myself. Should you be allowed to take a copy from my computer?

 

[Brofist]

Interestingly I don't see games in there, or am I blind.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

The bolded has never happened.

The 10 to 1 piracy ratio definitely reeks of pulling numbers out of the ass, but the article itself states the digital music sales fell by 16%, something that can be fairly easily and reliably calculated. That is a net less of buyers from the previous year, and a large enough percentage as to be unaccountable by simple statistical fluctuation or developing trends, so whether you think piracy is wrong or not, you can't ignore that, yea, actually that DOES happen a lot. I think the 2 years sentence is ridiculously over the top too, and that there is a very blurry line between personal music sharing and out and out piracy, but to pretend that this doesn't happen and that it doesn't happen on significantly large scales is naive and stupid.

May I ask why you feel differently?

Lets say I make a game its an incredible Awesome game, and I decide I`m only going to sell it to 100 people thats it.

Do you feel you should be allowed to pirate it?

What if I decide to only give it to 10 close friends? or I decide to never distribute it but to keep it for myself. Should you be allowed to take a copy from my computer?

well hi there captain strawman

Just FYI folks, streaming has actually been declared not illegal with the amendment to this law. A lot of sites are misreporting this. In fact, the FAQ on this amendment also states downloading books and comics is actually not illegal too. Quite perplexing.

Key points from the Q&A below
• Streaming videos (YouTube et al.) is not illegal under the new law, as long as they are not downloaded or ripped (I know, streaming is downloading, but they don't consider this the case).
• Comics and books are not protected.
• Downloading TV shows which have been broadcasted but are not yet available to buy on DVD or Blu-ray is not considered illegal, but can still result in being sued as a civil offense. Uploading is illegal.
• Intent has to be proven to be prosecuted for downloading.
• E-mailing video and music files you have ripped yourself to friends is legal, although bypassing copyright protection is not.

Google Translate these Government Q&A PDFs for more info.

away with you and your rubbish facts. let us have some fun

 

[decaf]

So has gatti-man asked for permission to use this avatar? Or is it under a non profit/share like you want license like creative commons? Or did he made it himself?
This is important!

Via Google Translate:
Q7 To download the image files on the Internet for personal enjoyment, the text Act or to copy and paste what will subject to punishment?

A7 Is not illegal, as long as you remain in the private use and it will not be subject to punishment. Is a "sound or visual recordings" of a digital system, said illegal downloads "download", the music and Film is assumed. "Record Copy and paste the text or image file downloads I does not apply to "or recording.

 

[gatti-man]

So has gatti-man asked for permission to use this avatar? Or is it under a non profit/share like you want license like creative commons? Or did he made it himself?
This is important!

Yeah because that's so relevant to the topic.

Pirates will always win.

That's a pretty big fallacy as laws ratchet down on pirates all they will cause is all of us losing freedoms and market choice. Thinking that piracy will always be easy and penalty free is incredibly naive.

 

[midonnay]

do Japanese even use torrents?

I think their filesharing revolves around anonymity because of their draconian laws....

 

[lexi]

I used to pirate games and music, I now use Steam and Spotify.

This whole thing sounds like horse and cart companies jailing people that drive cars, and I can't believe it's being fervently defended by holier-than-thou do goooders.

 

[decaf]

do Japanese even use torrents?

I think their filesharing revolves around anonymity because of their draconian laws....

From what I hear, the most common seems to be the Japanese equivalent to those horribly insecure P2P programs like KaZaA and Limewire. There used to be stories fairly frequently about people accidentally sharing sensitive documents on these networks.

I used to pirate games and music, I now use Steam and Spotify.

High five! It's quite an effort to set up Spotify here though. I pay for an account that lets me use Spotify internationally (read: every day), but to sign up I needed a VPN to access the UK site and a UK debit card. For Steam purchases I constantly have to buy access to a UK VPN too (for example, had to shell out a fiver to use funds from my wallet to pre-order the new Worms).

 

[midonnay]

From what I hear, the most common seems to be the Japanese equivalent to those horribly insecure P2P programs like KaZaA and Limewire. There used to be stories fairly frequently about people accidentally sharing sensitive documents on these networks.

more like a combination of old school p2p and TOR

winny and perfectdark.

 

[dramatis]

The 10 to 1 piracy ratio definitely reeks of pulling numbers out of the ass, but the article itself states the digital music sales fell by 16%, something that can be fairly easily and reliably calculated. That is a net less of buyers from the previous year, and a large enough percentage as to be unaccountable by simple statistical fluctuation or developing trends, so whether you think piracy is wrong or not, you can't ignore that, yea, actually that DOES happen a lot. I think the 2 years sentence is ridiculously over the top too, and that there is a very blurry line between personal music sharing and out and out piracy, but to pretend that this doesn't happen and that it doesn't happen on significantly large scales is naive and stupid.

I think it's a lot more likely that because their digital offerings are not so good (see sprsk's post somewhere earlier in this thread), customers wouldn't purchase digitally. There's no way to prove that the lost sales are due to piracy or more due to the companies themselves sucking, but utilizing the government to punish consumers for seeking alternatives to your crappy services isn't the best solution by long shot.

No matter the scale, if your company is competent in chasing down the market and getting them to spend money on your products, your business might boom a lot more than this scenario of driving off possible and future consumers. It's not as if their earnings will rise a lot because they have a law like this on the books.

 

[Memento_Mori15]

I'm kinda okay with this, but the punishment is a bit harsh since buying an album on the Japanese itunes is expensive. It ranges from 1,200￥ to 4000￥(okay, it's RARELY that much). This one album I wanted is 2,000￥ but that's like $25.60. I can buy 2 albums of a band I like here. For a single, it's 250￥, close to $3. I give in buying them when it's a band I really like but most of the times, I just don't buy it and just rely on listening it on youtube/pandora/nate/niconico. It doesn't help that Amazon nor itunes in the US carry them. Kinokuniya is also expensive. I used to rely on my penpal to give me some japanese music via skype. Now, I mostly just stream it or wait until they go on sale in stores.

Do they have something like spotify there?

 

[lexi]

High five! It's quite an effort to set up Spotify here though. I pay for an account that lets me use Spotify internationally (read: every day), but to sign up I needed a VPN to access the UK site and a UK debit card. For Steam purchases I constantly have to buy access to a UK VPN too (for example, had to shell out a fiver to use funds from my wallet to pre-order the new Worms).

I know what you mean. I also pay for a Netflix subscription, and use a VPN to use it. Australia's movie / tv streaming options are fucking pitiful. I honestly WANT to give these people my money for their content, but they are horse-and-cart on their delivery methods. I have no problem paying for my content now with Netflix / Steam / Spotify because they let me have access to content in a modern, convenient way.

 

[Sullichin]

Yeah because that's so relevant to the topic.



That's a pretty big fallacy as laws ratchet down on pirates all they will cause is all of us losing freedoms and market choice. Thinking that piracy will always be easy and penalty free is incredibly naive.

Let's say I own Wind Waker for GCN and I download the ISO so I can play it on dolphin on my PC - should I go to jail?

What if I stream a copyrighted song on youtube? I know streaming isn't affected by this law, but i'm technically still downloading copyrighted material without permission. Do you think I should I be punished for checking out a song my friend sent me? Is it any different if it's a mediafire link instead of an embedded youtube video? Where is the line drawn?

I don't see why anybody would really want piracy laws to be in place. It's not benefiting you. Just don't pirate if it bothers you so much.

 

[lexi]

Let's say I own Wind Waker for GCN and I download the ISO so I can play it on dolphin on my PC - should I go to jail?

Jail is too good for you, criminal scum. Gatti-man would have you drawn and quartered for such a vile crime.

 

[decaf]

Let's say I own Wind Waker for GCN and I download the ISO so I can play it on dolphin on my PC - should I go to jail?

No you shouldn't, but laws in most countries state you should be backing it up yourself - it's technically completely different to be downloading it.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

If you live there, why not record off of TV?

TV in Japan doesn't carry new stuff NBC, CBS, ABC. I have to wait a year or more for the DVDs, if they ever come at all.

 

[Jintor]

So what's Japan's copyright industry's history of actual enforcement?

 

[Sullichin]

No you shouldn't, but laws in most countries state you should be backing it up yourself - it's technically completely different to be downloading it.

Yeah I get that. But that's a perfect example of a stupid law - I'm going to go with convenience every time over adhering to some dumb law when i'm not hurting anybody.

 

[Stat Flow]

Is 2 years enough though? I think they could afford to raise it to 5 years.

Unless you lock them away for life, you'll never know. They could pirate again.

 

[Alex Connolly]

TV in Japan doesn't carry new stuff NBC, CBS, ABC. I have to wait a year or more for the DVDs, if they ever come at all.

And yet, this is that grey area where it appears to NOT be illegal to download material that has yet to be localised or commercially released. It's all very confusing.

 

[midonnay]

So what's Japan's copyright industry's history of actual enforcement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winny_copyright_infringement_case


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_(P2P)#Legal_issues


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark_(P2P)#Legal_issues

 

[adversesolutions]

For those who thought Youtube was going to remain legal:

http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/6648224.html

 

[Rebel Leader]

For those who thought Youtube was going to remain legal:

http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/6648224.html

Can't understand anything.... I LIKE IT!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Just FYI folks, streaming has actually been declared not illegal with the amendment to this law. A lot of sites are misreporting this. In fact, the FAQ on this amendment also states downloading books and comics is actually not illegal too. Quite perplexing.

Key points from the Q&A below
• Streaming videos (YouTube et al.) is not illegal under the new law, as long as they are not downloaded or ripped (I know, streaming is downloading, but they don't consider this the case).
• Comics and books are not protected.
• Downloading TV shows which have been broadcasted but are not yet available to buy on DVD or Blu-ray is not considered illegal, but can still result in being sued as a civil offense. Uploading is illegal.
• Intent has to be proven to be prosecuted for downloading.
• E-mailing video and music files you have ripped yourself to friends is legal, although bypassing copyright protection is not.

Google Translate these Government Q&A PDFs for more info.

I just read through those.

It's hilarious how still images and text are not covered in this. Just goes to show how this law was written specifically for JASRAC. Musical and video recordings? Go to jail! Manga and eBooks? Whatever... pirate away!

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Sorry but no, if you don't like the price then don't buy it.

Its 2 years for a crime that could so easily be avoided. Its not like we are talking about a necessity here.

There's a defense force for everything lol. Two fucking years for downloading a song. It's not even tenable.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

For those who thought Youtube was going to remain legal:

http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/6648224.html

That was the common interpretation, but the Q&A by the government specifically says that viewing sites like YouTube (even listing it by name) will not break any laws. Apparently this is covered in article 47 of the law, which talks about copies made by computers for the use of copyrighted material. So content downloaded to the cache for streaming purposes is fine, apparently.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

That's a pretty big fallacy as laws ratchet down on pirates all they will cause is all of us losing freedoms and market choice. Thinking that piracy will always be easy and penalty free is incredibly naive.

And yet pirates will lose neither.

 

[Femmeworth]

What a load of bullshit.

 

[Zoe]

Do they have something like spotify there?

No, each label wants to do their own thing. It gets even messier with separate management agencies in the mix. The most unified services tend to be cell-phone only and are mostly used for ring tone-length clips.

 

[Black_Stride]

I wonder how much of an effect this will have on the raw television content providers that fansub groups rely on.

I was this close to saying whatev....but having read this post, god damn this could be huge.

 

[RedSwirl]

Just FYI folks, streaming has actually been declared not illegal with the amendment to this law. A lot of sites are misreporting this. In fact, the FAQ on this amendment also states downloading books and comics is actually not illegal too. Quite perplexing.

Key points from the Q&A below
• Streaming videos (YouTube et al.) is not illegal under the new law, as long as they are not downloaded or ripped (I know, streaming is downloading, but they don't consider this the case).
• Comics and books are not protected.
• Downloading TV shows which have been broadcasted but are not yet available to buy on DVD or Blu-ray is not considered illegal, but can still result in being sued as a civil offense. Uploading is illegal.
• Intent has to be proven to be prosecuted for downloading.
• E-mailing video and music files you have ripped yourself to friends is legal, although bypassing copyright protection is not.

Google Translate these Government Q&A PDFs for more info.

So basically this law just concerns anything already available in Japan on CD, DVD, and Blu-Ray.

 

[CiSTM]

Is downloading child porn actually legal in japan? I don't wanna enter child porn into Google to verify that.

It's at least legal to hold CP in Japan. Russia and Japan were the two only G8 countries that still allowed possesion of CP.

 

[Zaptruder]

Haha... fuckin' japan. Perhaps a worse breed of conservatives there than in America. Just not quite as puritanical.

 

[Femmeworth]

Haha... fuckin' japan. Perhaps a worse breed of conservatives there than in America. Just not quite as puritanical.

Porn is censored, so I don't know about that.

 

[KuroNeeko]

To stop crimes there must be punishment.

Wow, man. I don't know you personally, but I'm hoping that you aren't this draconian in real life - especially if you have kids. Punishment is very rarely an effective deterrent. You treat the symptoms before the crime occurs. Reinforce the benefits of following the law or doing the right thing, don't just wave your finger and preach about how you're going to "get it" if you do wrong.

At the very least, I hope you live a 100% crime-free life if you're going to hold these kinds of standards.

 

[lupinko]

I don't condone this law at all, but I buy all my Singles and Albums of my favourite artists, and with the context of this thread Japanese ones. I have them even shipped to me expedited so I pretty much get them day and date as Japan even though I'm in Canada.

But I understand not everybody is in my position and/or has the same passion/dedication as I do.

And Japanese DRM for CDs is a bitch, but I've only ran into it with one single, and I did find a non-computer workaround to resolve it tho.

 

[lupin23rd]

sprsk, does this mean if we download a copy of an 8-4 play podcast episode that contains any music that isn't in the public domain, we will go to jail?

 

[Terrell]

Considering their streaming and digital distribution options are often worse than Canada (and that says a LOT), I can see this law flying like a lead zeppelin there.

It's the same situation as here, Japan: you want to stop piracy? Give consumers better options.