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[gatti-man]

Good for you.

Surely you recognize that it isn't a crime in which someone is harmed directly, right? You're not actually taking anything from anyone.

Surely you realize that there are plenty of cases where people pirate to try something out and buy later, right?

Surely you realize that there are plenty of cases where people grow up, get more income, and turn into purchasers after discovering something through free downloads, previously, right?

Do you realize how absurd it will be if someone goes to jail over downloading some music or a video? Do you really think these people are unfit for society and should have their lives destroyed for a few years while taxpayers pay for them to be locked away?

You make a song and distribute it. You make one sale and the file goes on the Internet and is promptly pirated by half your fan base. You didn't lose income? This didn't harm anyone? You can't be serious.

It isn't absurd at all. To stop crimes there must be punishment. So stop pirating. It's pretty simple.

2 years for downloading an mp3? Does that seem fair to you?

No. However that's the maximum so who knows what petty offenders will get.

 

[alr1ght]

What a joke.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Sorry but no, if you don't like the price then don't buy it.

Its 2 years for a crime that could so easily be avoided. Its not like we are talking about a necessity here.

Is 2 years enough though? I think they could afford to raise it to 5 years.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I never understood why we resorted to calling irresponsible sharing of files ''Piracy''. Surely there is no hijacking, looting, or violence involved.

I wish governments focused on the actual things that plague the world.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You make a song and distribute it. You make one sale and the file goes on the Internet and is promptly pirated by half your fan base. You didn't lose income? This didn't harm anyone? You can't be serious.

It isn't absurd at all. To stop crimes there must be punishment. So stop pirating. It's pretty simple.



No. However that's the maximum so who knows what petty offenders will get.

The bolded has never happened.

Music by groups that have fans will be purchased by said fans. They will also sell out concerts should they perform live.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you go in your anti-sharing philosophy? Should making a "mix tape" for a friend be a crime punishable by jail time? What about lending a book or movie?

 

[bjork]

You make a song and distribute it. You make one sale and the file goes on the Internet and is promptly pirated by half your fan base. You didn't lose income? This didn't harm anyone? You can't be serious.

It isn't absurd at all. To stop crimes there must be punishment. So stop pirating. It's pretty simple.

I could be considered a moderate beatles fan, but I don't own any of their music and have only heard it on the radio. Did they lose sales in my case? Is the radio committing piracy by letting me hear it for free?

 

[gatti-man]

I never understood why we resorted to calling irresponsible sharing of files ''Piracy''. Surely there is no hijacking, looting, or violence involved.

I wish governments focused on the actual things that plague the world.

So if you created something digital and everyone just shared it as opposed to paying you for it when this is your way of earning a living how would you feel? You are pirating the creation of someone else's labor. This thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I could be considered a moderate beatles fan, but I don't own any of their music and have only heard it on the radio. Did they lose sales in my case? Is the radio committing piracy by letting me hear it for free?

Artists are paid when their music is played generally I believe. It's obviously legal so how is your legal example relevant to downloading an artists music for your own private use illegally?

The bolded has never happened.

Music by groups that have fans will be purchased by said fans. They will also sell out concerts should they perform live.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you go in your anti-sharing philosophy? Should making a "mix tape" for a friend be a crime punishable by jail time? What about lending a book or movie?

Oh so as long as the artist is big enough they should make enough money by your standards so pirating is ok.... Yeah that makes no sense at all.

I'm not going to answer your other question besides saying I don't believe in piracy that falls outside the law. There is such a thing as fair use. What we are talking about now obviously isn't.

 

[RedSwirl]

Just curious, but what is exactly the state of legal digital distribution in Japan? Not just for music, but each form of media. I understand that for manga in particular it's way behind.

 

[LordCanti]

I thought K-Dramas were better?

You heard a horrible lie.

 

[bjork]

Artists are paid when their music is played generally I believe. It's obviously legal so how is your legal example relevant to downloading an artists music for your own private use illegally?

I'm hearing it without paying for it. Not too different than someone ripping a copy and shooting it my way. Especially when I have zero intention of buying something.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I'm hearing it without paying for it. Not too different than someone ripping a copy and shooting it my way. Especially when I have zero intention of buying something.

You can't honestly believe that hearing a song on the radio is the same as downloading it illegally.

You're "paying" for it by listening to the song at the time of the station's choosing in between paid advertisements and other songs you may not want to hear.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

I could be considered a moderate beatles fan, but I don't own any of their music and have only heard it on the radio. Did they lose sales in my case? Is the radio committing piracy by letting me hear it for free?

I want to sue the radio station for enabling people to make Gangnam Style audible within my hearing range. I think 3 months of jail time per "Oppan" inflicted on my tympanic membrane is quite appropriate.

 

[Darklord]

It is a loss. Lets not derail this into the tired old bububu each pirated copy isn't a sale argument. Even if its 1 out of 100 its a loss and a crime. Commit a crime go to jail. I won't cry for Internet criminals.

Piracy has been very helpful in Australia. We used to be royally fucked over with everything on TV. America would be at season 8, while we'd just be starting season 5. They end series half way in. Change times whenever they felt like it. So people pirated, now many shows are in at proper times and almost inline with America. We'd still be getting screwed over if it wasn't for piracy.

 

[bjork]

You can't honestly believe that hearing a song on the radio is the same as downloading it illegally.

You're "paying" for it by listening to the song at the time of the station's choosing in between paid advertisements and other songs you may not want to hear.

No less insane than believing half a fanbase pirates a song on the internet based off one sale.

 

[msv]

Just like with the war on drugs, putting the people who aren't hurting anyone in jail will definitely solve the problem. If the majority of the people don't think it's morally wrong to do this, then it should be reflected as such in the law. Just because some middlemen want to scrape the bottom of the barrel, nay, turn the barrel into a lake, doesn't mean we should do anything about it.

This is not an 'issue' that is on pressing on anyone in the world, except for an extremely tiny minority. The fact that governments all over the world are giving it this much time tells us something is very wrong.

 

[gatti-man]

I'm hearing it without paying for it. Not too different than someone ripping a copy and shooting it my way. Especially when I have zero intention of buying something.

Actually no because like I said before the artist is paid. You participate by listening to ads and the radio isn't just for your private use. Are you really saying the radio is the same as a pirated audio collection? Seriously?

Piracy has been very helpful in Australia. We used to be royally fucked over with everything on TV. America would be at season 8, while we'd just be starting season 5. They end series half way in. Change times whenever they felt like it. So people pirated, now many shows are in at proper times and almost inline with America. We'd still be getting screwed over if it wasn't for piracy.

Sorry? I see your point but piracy is still piracy. I have to wait years for manga so should I pirate it?

 

[Noshino]

Good for you.

Surely you recognize that it isn't a crime in which someone is harmed directly, right? You're not actually taking anything from anyone.

Some content creators don't complain, many do though.

Surely you realize that there are plenty of cases where people pirate to try something out and buy later, right?

Surely you realize that that's what youtube, reviews, sneak peaks, demos, and/or refunds are available for.

Hell, if you are not sure even after doing all your homework than you can always wait for it to be cheaper.

Surely you realize that there are plenty of cases where people grow up, get more income, and turn into purchasers after discovering something through free downloads, previously, right?

And there are many people who grow up pirating, and keep doing so....and pass the habits onto other people.

Both cases true, both anecdotal. Hardly a excuse to pirate

Do you realize how absurd it will be if someone goes to jail over downloading some music or a video? Do you really think these people are unfit for society and should have their lives destroyed for a few years while taxpayers pay for them to be locked away?

Let me ask you something, do you think they are fit for society? these are people that, for the most part, have other means to use the product, just don't have the same features/rights as actual consumers, yet still resort to pirating it.

 

[brumx]

So 2 years for downloading a Gameboy game rom?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

So if you created something digital and everyone just shared it as opposed to paying you for it when this is your way of earning a living how would you feel? You are pirating the creation of someone else's labor. This thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

You could say the same thing about a VHS/DVD someone borrowed from a friend and in turn gave it to another friend and so on. We need to establish why it is so different from doing it over the internet.
The exposure most of artists get through the world of filesharing and subsequent wide internet recognition, actually helps them become bigger artists.

There is a reason legislation around this topic bears so much discourse and debate. It is simply because despite the fact that law makers are being pressured to find ways to make judgement on something such as this, the majority of them just can't seem to find a substantive rationale to do it.

File-sharing can be irresponsible, but I don't think calling it piracy helps one bit.

 

[bjork]

Actually no because like I said before the artist is paid. You participate by listening to ads and the radio isn't just for your private use. Are you really saying the radio is the same as a pirated audio collection? Seriously?

No, not seriously.

No less insane than believing half a fanbase pirates a song on the internet based off one sale.

 

[Moral Panic]

I used to think piracy was wrong but someone explained that if if it wasn't for piracy then Gangnam style wouldn't have blown up as it did and taken no.1 in charts half the world away. It was the peoples ability to distribute, remix and play around with it that made it so popular.

 

[gatti-man]

No, not seriously.

It's an example meant to cut away all the excuses pro pirate arguments have. Straight and simple piracy hurts creators. It's undeniable.

I useed to be very much against piracy but someone explained that if if it wwwwwssw2seddsdszasaqasn't for Piracy then Gangnam style wouldn't have blown up

How many hits does the official YouTube video have? I didn't pirate gangnam style and millions of others didn't either.

 

[Darklord]

Sorry? I see your point but piracy is still piracy. I have to wait years for manga so should I pirate it?

You screw around people, they find an easier solution. Simple as that. If companies are too greedy or stubborn to change then fuck'em. They pay the price. If they made things as easy as piracy people would go to that.

Look at Steam. In 2005 people pirated PC games they'd never pay for. In 2012 they buy PC games they're never going to play.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Let me ask you something, do you think they are fit for society? these are people that, for the most part, have other means to use the product, just don't have the same features/rights as actual consumers, yet still resort to pirating it.

Of course they are fit for society. If you thought otherwise, you'd be saying that a massive percentage of the population should be locked up along with the murderers and rapists.

I'm not saying that people should go out and pirate something when they are capable of paying for it, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying that pirated copies = lost sale. Anecdotally I know that is certainly not the case. There are plenty of cases where discovery happens through piracy which then leads to sales.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

It's hilarious how criminaly minded the average person is when it comes to pirating.. very similar justifications to any other criminal..

That they'd likely comdemn.

"Digital crime isn't crime!! CUZ I DO IT!!

I MEAN, cuz nobody is hurt."

 

[gatti-man]

You screw around people, they find an easier solution. Simple as that. If companies are too greedy or stubborn to change then fuck'em. They pay the price. If they made things as easy as piracy people would go to that.

Look at Steam. In 2005 people pirated PC games they'd never pay for. In 2012 they buy PC games they're never going to play.

Yes when you reduce the value of something through rampant piracy people will buy $60 software for $5. These arguments keep em coming. Pc Devs offered awesome value and people still pirated. If you were a pc gamer in the 80s and 90s you would know that.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's hilarious how criminaly minded the average person is when it comes to pirating.. very similar justifications to any other criminal..

That they'd likely comdemn.

"Digital crime isn't crime!! CUZ I DO IT!!

I MEAN, cuz nobody is hurt."

It's because it's simple and the victim isn't immediately apparent.

 

[Weenerz]

/w Japan xdcc send 19

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

It's because it's simple and the victim isn't immediately apparent.

I understand why.

I just don't like it. I could stomach people admitting to piracy if they just admitted they do it because.. well.. it's free, and they don't want to pay.

That's why I've ever pirated anything before.

 

[gatti-man]

I understand why.

I just don't like it. I could stomach people admitting to piracy if they just admitted they do it because.. well.. it's free, and they don't want to pay.

That's why I've ever pirated anything before.

I don't like accusing people of piracy but yeah it's pretty obvious.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Maybe it also has to do with the proximity of the artist to the audience.
Once publishers' are involved, the nature of organisation begins to crawl into the picture. With its facelessness, endless statements on copyright and rigid nature in dealing with customers.

Many artists have self-published their works, and are either not affected by filesharing at all( i.e. comedian Louis CK putting all of his own work up online), or they gain traction and fame from the buzz generated around their work.

Artists would really love it if everyone in the world uploaded their videos to youtube. But publishers' don't.

The simple reality is that artists really don't need publishers as much as they used to, and this is forcing big industry players to rethink the way they do things.

 

[bjork]

It's an example meant to cut away all the excuses pro pirate arguments have. Straight and simple piracy hurts creators. It's undeniable.

It was a bad example. I agree with the bold, but no sense in making really far-reaching leaps to try and illustrate that point.

 

[Razek]

I'm not for piracy or blatant unwanted copyright infringement, but when watching a youtube video has the potential to get you 2 years in jail, that is some messed up wording with that copyright law.

 

[Noshino]

Of course they are fit for society. If you thought otherwise, you'd be saying that a massive percentage of the population should be locked up along with the murderers and rapists.

I'm not saying that people should go out and pirate something when they are capable of paying for it, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying that pirated copies = lost sale. Anecdotally I know that is certainly not the case. There are plenty of cases where discovery happens through piracy which then leads to sales.

I don't think that pirated copies = lost sales either, but let's be real. The industries involved are indeed affected, and society changes, or better yet has changed, to the point where it is socially acceptable to pirate games. And I'm talking about America, where buying shows/movies, game at release, music, and so on are seeing as weird more and more often because how available piracy sites are. Hell, in other countries you are ridiculed for buying legally released content.

Like I said, its gotten to the point that I really wouldn't feel sorry for anyone accused of it.

As for discovery, sorry but youtube, radio, pandora, and many other discovery services available also lead to sales without being illegal. Once again, hardly an excuse to pirate.

 

[devilhawk]

It's hilarious how criminaly minded the average person is when it comes to pirating.. very similar justifications to any other criminal..

That they'd likely comdemn.

"Digital crime isn't crime!! CUZ I DO IT!!

I MEAN, cuz nobody is hurt."

You must be in the wrong thread. Downloading is not a criminal matter in the US. I do not know what this digital crime you speak of is. Distribution of copyrighted material for profit is a criminal offense, but that has no relation to this thread.

If you live in Japan however, I must apologize.

 

[DarkFlow]

Is 2 years enough though? I think they could afford to raise it to 5 years.

I say give them life! They are clearly high threats to society at large.

 

[Moral Panic]

Crunchyroll is probably the biggest anime streaming site, but they used to deal exclusively in fansubs (piracy). The used the views from that to leverage their position and get legitimate content. Was that wrong? Should the people who ran and contributed to the site have been sent to jail?

 

[maquiladora]

I wish governments focused on the actual things that plague the world.

Because the big businesses that 'lobby' governments to bring in these laws don't gain anything from lobbying for those kind of issues.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

You must be in the wrong thread. Downloading is not a criminal matter in the US. I do not know what this digital crime you speak of is. Distribution of copyrighted material for profit is a criminal offense, but that has no relation to this thread.

It's a crime in the US.

It's only "not a crime" in a few places in the world including Canada.

Just because law enforcement doesn't go after people for petty pirating matters, doesn't mean it isn't a crime.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

I hope all of you have disabled NeoGAF avatars, so many instances of severe copyright infringement on this page alone. One month of jail time per hot image is fair in my opinion.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm all for criminalizing piracy of things that you can readily buy in stores or online. But when it comes to out of print shows, shows that are not offered in your country, etc, I feel differently...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don't think that pirated copies = lost sales either, but let's be real. The industries involved are indeed affected, and society changes, or better yet has changed, to the point where it is socially acceptable to pirate games. And I'm talking about America, where buying shows/movies, game at release, music, and so on are seeing as weird more and more often because how available piracy sites are. Hell, in other countries you are ridiculed for buying legally released content.

Like I said, its gotten to the point that I really wouldn't feel sorry for anyone accused of it.

As for discovery, sorry but youtube, radio, pandora, and many other discovery services available also lead to sales without being illegal. Once again, hardly an excuse to pirate.

I can only speak from my experience, but I've never heard anyone be ridiculed for buying legitimate copies on or after the launch window.

And regarding those discovery services, how many of them do you think would exist if the industry hadn't been changed by Napster and other file sharing applications?

 

[Razek]

I hope all of you have disabled NeoGAF avatars, so many instances of severe copyright infringement on this page alone. One month of jail time per hot image is fair in my opinion.

Actually, I would say many of the avatars on gaf fall under fair use.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

It is a loss. Lets not derail this into the tired old bububu each pirated copy isn't a sale argument. Even if its 1 out of 100 its a loss and a crime. Commit a crime go to jail. I won't cry for Internet criminals.

Anyone else find it super ironic this user has been accused of illegally downloading porn before and was asked to cough up a lot of money?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470030&page=4

Imagine the same thing happened to you as a Japanese citizen, because they're so draconian they DO take you to court. Furthermore the Japanese conviction rate is absurdly high so I'm not sure a lack of actual evidence will clear you.

Not to mention the precedent this legislation and the proposed technology of filtering out illegal content before it hits the net set for oppressive governments.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Anyone else find it super ironic this user has been accused of illegally downloading porn before and was asked to cough up a lot of money?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470030&page=4

Imagine the same thing happened to you as a Japanese citizen, because they're so draconian they DO take you to court. Furthermore the Japanese conviction rate is absurdly high so I'm not sure a lack of actual evidence will clear you.

Not to mention the precedent this legislation and the proposed technology of filtering out illegal content before it hits the net set for oppressive governments.

Well he certainly won't cry for himself.

 

[devilhawk]

It's a crime in the US.

It's only "not a crime" in a few places in the world including Canada.

Just because law enforcement doesn't go after people for petty pirating matters, doesn't mean it isn't a crime.

I am sorry but it is not a crime as defined by the federal statute. It just isn't. There can't be a debate here.

 

[Cloudius12]

Why do they have to steal our music?

7/10

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I am sorry but it is not a crime as defined by the federal statute. It just isn't. There can't be a debate here.

Do you have a link?

Because common sense + google says it's a crime in about 10 different places.. FBI.com, Wiki, etc.

 

[devilhawk]

Do you have a link?

Because common sense + google says it's a crime in about 10 different places.. FBI.com, Wiki, etc.

Sure, http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Actually, I would say many of the avatars on gaf fall under fair use.

That is highly subjective. Are you certain Hasbro/D-A/whoever is happy you are misappropriating their indigo equine imagery? What if the content of your posts is very displeasing to them? Maybe you are using their popular horse image to push a personal agenda.