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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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His links were perfect
MushroomSamba
Member
Okay, what about all the other stuff?
I just don't get the impression you really try all that hard to avoid being possibly influenced by PR. I know in your mind you rationalize it and tell yourself you're not affected, but marketing is an extremely profitable industry and there's entire sciences devoted to it. Wouldn't it be more professional to just not accept those expensive restaurant dinners and stuff?
I don't blame you...I wouldn't pass up all that free stuff either. But trying to come off as if you're completely unbiased from it...well, that may be true, it might not. But you can see why the audience may be suspicious of your integrity.
For awhile now, especially with the advent of video reviews, i've just been considering them straight up Entertainers and social engineers.
Is it any wonder the majority of "Gaming Journalist" who leave that career are going to jobs with gaming companies in their PR departments or as community managers.
HoC - thanks for the input I appreciate the effort even if I don't agree with everything you type. I was wondering one thing, do your colleagues in the UK gaming press realise how fucking awful this entire debacle looks to your audience? Rob's article initially struck me as a great opportunity to debate the ethics of the relationships between press and pubs and to set a standard going forward which would have made the whole industry - games making, reviewing and reporting - stronger and better (and ultimately more credible and, hopefully, profitable). A few people would hold their hands up, a few websites would set standards and transparency rules for swag and hospitality, your readers would have thought "well that wasn't great but at least they've acknowledged it and done something."
Instead most of you guys have circled the wagons and focussed on the lunatic fringe attacking Lauren rather than the important stuff. Given how mustard keen you lot are to dive on a PR announcing the announcement of the release date of a PR tangentially related to some two-bit DLC, the silence over this is defeaning and makes the entire sector look unprofessional, unconcerned and clueless.
exactly. for your words to be worth anything your readers need to have faith that it's your truthful opinion, as soon as there's any reason to suspect you're helping a friend, swayed by gifts or looking to score a better paying gig at a publisher you lose that fundamental trust.
this is the point florence made when he invoked wainwright, yet so many in the press just don't get it.
HamPster PamPster
Member
The problem with games press becomes clear once you realize anyone actually good at the job gets to move on to bigger and better things - I still miss GFW
Hero of Canton
Member
Yeah, absolutely. Lesson well and truly learned. And I apologised directly to the person involved for the latter tweet, which was written in haste and was incorrect.
Right, because we all have to rush out and buy games and or watch movies on day 1. There's nothing silly about the idea of having some patience and being more cautious about what products you spend your money on.
Diablohead
Member
If I remember right one of the early halo 3 reviews was by someone who only played it single player on easy and beat it in a matter of hours, happens quite often because some reviewers have other things to get on with, like I dunno, another game?
Mama Robotnik
Member
Someone spotted this over at GRCade.
Ho ho.
Ho ho.
Foxtastical
Member
I really wanna keep re-quoting them so more people will click that shit.
Or feel too acutely concerned to actually write anything.
papersleeves
Member
But here's the million dollar question, how are people reading your work supposed to know you had the integrity to not color your review with bias when you didn't have the integrity not to accept gifts?
Publishers and gaming journalists make no qualms about hiding their relationships. The big red flag is that its open knowledge if gaming journalists don't play ball they don't get review copies or those exclusives and interviews needed for their hits. The whole concept is tainted from birth, and is seemingly so ingrained in the business that those in the thick of it don't even realize its an issue. It's just the way it is, right? Thats what reviewers tell themselves.
Sorry, I might of explained that a bit wrong. The dinner only happened once, but it was kinda required. The dinner happened before the preview of a game, a thing that I HAD to attend to, or our site would lose valuable information (because there is still, you know, competition).
So, yeah, it's kinda impossible to avoid things like that if you want to stay updated. I'm not gonna say all publishers are like this though. There are publishers where I just go, play the game, and leave again. It's not always fancy stuff. Still, when you do get to attend something fancy, it depends on yourself if it influences you or not. I can safely say those things never influenced me. I only did them because I had to. And this is not some brainwashed PR thing I spout so that I make myself believe that I am objective (which is impossible anyway, an article is always subjective). It's just because I know that those things don't affect me.
It's almost like the complete silence in the aftermath of these events are even more damning for at least the UK gaming media. Nobody covers it and instead they try to ignore it, and they do not engage in the necessary and healthy debate on how to improve the sad state of game journalism.
Their complete inaction is one big confirmation of what Rab and everyone else in the last 20 years have tried to point out and improve upon. It's fucking sad, as it also scares away any rational, ethical, and talented writers, who want to get into covering and criticizing games.
Their complete inaction is one big confirmation of what Rab and everyone else in the last 20 years have tried to point out and improve upon. It's fucking sad, as it also scares away any rational, ethical, and talented writers, who want to get into covering and criticizing games.
Game journalism...Game journalism never changes.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Haha. 73% really is the perfect number. I guess that number is more like 8 or 9 now though.
Someone should reference it with the video.It's still up
Schobeleth
Member
Ohhh.... I get it now. Wainwright covered/reviewed Square Enix games, when she was actually working for them. There's no question then - that's completely unacceptable. I don't understand why he was forced to edit that out, when it's truth, but I guess since it's affecting her public image she is taking legal action.
Wasn't there a huge PR disaster like this recently when someone was actually condemning other poor reviews for a game, later it was known that they actually worked for said company. I know it's happened multiple times but there was one recently that I can't remember..
Wasn't there a huge PR disaster like this recently when someone was actually condemning other poor reviews for a game, later it was known that they actually worked for said company. I know it's happened multiple times but there was one recently that I can't remember..
It's not been conclusively proved to have been the case. Matters are 'only' looking very suspicious. Plus, when they edited the piece, almost none of that was known.
Christmas is pretty gross.
Cosmonaut X
Member
It's just a coincidence, man - nothing to see here, nothing to see here...
Schrödinger's cat;43626901 said:
Oh, but I'm not defending anyone. I am very ashamed that this is the usual practice for a lot of people and I think it's a good thing that this has happened.
I just wanted to say that not everyone is a bad guy now and there are still a lot of people who write honest reviews. And yes, there are publishers who like to push and threaten, but I think it's your responsability to say 'no' and skip their requests.
Looks like we are going to get a followup article, written by Rab and hosted by the fearless Stuart Campbell.
Stuart has already taunted Wainwright to set her legal dogs on him for rehosting the unedited Eurogamer article, so at least we know this time that Rab's content will remain uncensored.
Personally I hope he names names. Lets blow this problem wide open.
I would bet he won't though. He seems a responsible inteligent guy. He knows fully well the repercussions of going full rogue. Not only on himself but on others.
I understand you, but there's always a big group that buys the game within the first week. Those people always expect the reviews to be there before/when they buy the game. I'm not saying everyone should follow reviews before buying a game (because everyone's opinion is different and there have been good games in the past who received mediocre ratings et cetera..), but people who do read reviews expect them on time.
I'm just saying...there are far worse problems in "gaming journalism" than receiving the game before release. That's actually one of the things they shouldn't change.
'Full rogue'?
Telling the truth is "going full rogue" now? You sound like you're implicitly threatening him, as well, what the fuck.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I would assume he's referring to naming and shaming colleagues.
You're out of your mind.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Yeah, you're gonna have to explain this one, it comes across as shady as hell.
Omerta at all costs, and damn the truth.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Burn the witch!
wackojackosnose
Member
Eh, Stuart Campbell can deal with / deserves the flack so he can definitely host.
Who is RevStu? said:
Cerebral Assassin
Member
If he names names without strong evidence he will be buried in lawsuits.
What does he deserve it for?
I'm perfectly fine and healthy, thank you. Your way of wording things, however, isn't.
Schobeleth
Member
He's reposted the original Eurogamer post, as well as a follow up:
http://wosland.podgamer.com/the-wainwright-profile/#more-14177
I commend him for rehosting it and covering the whole thing.
http://wosland.podgamer.com/the-wainwright-profile/#more-14177
I commend him for rehosting it and covering the whole thing.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
He's a bit of a dick. Sometimes you need that though.
... what will be perceived by the UK games media types as going full rogue on them, thereby breaching the sacred trust of her majesty's royal secret society of glorified PRs, is what he meant. Not really threatening him, rather pointing out he'd earn the enmity of a large group of people. Whether or not he's got hard proof imo.
that's what she said
sorry
was that sexist?
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Yeah, he rubs me up the wrong way nine times out of ten but its worth it for the one in ten times he doesn't because it's always, always amazing.
Agent Unknown
Member
Lttp on this debacle. It's times like this I'm glad NeoGaf is around to help document crap like this. May Lauren Wainwright and her "journo" ilk who try to make things bad for folks like Robert be scorned for the schilling club of scum that they are.
Hero of Canton
Member
The ones I've spoken to do, yes.
Very fair point, though that assumes a moderate reader response that I'm not sure would be the case.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Um, no. He means by naming and shaming he will instantly become a pariah within the industry. It's not a threat, it's the awful truth of how bad the industry is.
How the hell you think he's threatening him is beyond me. More and more in this thread I see people only seeing what they want to see.
I didn't say I thought he's threatening him. That's what it sounds like, because of the way it's written.
I've read his other posts in this thread and he seems pretty neutral, doesn't really take sides.
Rogue carries an implication of being in the worng, of going outside the rules of decent behaviour. In this case it would be the industry that is rogue, not tha guy calling them out.
why?
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