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[squall23]

I wish more posters had this combination of reading comprehension and critical thinking.

So you're asking for more people that can speak and read Japanese on a dominantly English forum?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

So you're asking for more people that can speak and read Japanese on a dominantly English forum?

The Japanese article also doesn't really shed any more light on the situation.
It says basically the same thing　as the English and doesn't reference any specific Patent number or anything.

I am not sure what exactly Inazuma Eleven could be doing differently that most touch games don't already do.

 

[graywolf323]

Haha, yeah go ahead and try to sue Nintendo and Square Enix, Sega, see where that gets you.

they might be hoping to get a precedent set with this trial so they can go after Nintendo and Square-Enix

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Sega. Wat R U Doin.
Sega.
Stahp.

 

[J-Tier]

This is curious. I'd like to check out the patent in depth before I leave an opinion though. At face value, this article indeed sheds quite the negative light on Sega, and I'm inclined to start feeling disappointment.

 

[Kandinsky]

Sue Nintendo for Zelda Phantom Hourglass.

.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Breaking news: Thomas T. Goldsmith Jr. sues videogames

Seriously, this shit is getting crazy. I dont understand how companies even survive anymore.

Edit: I guess his ghost sues them.. haha

 

[Open Source]

So you're asking for more people that can speak and read Japanese on a dominantly English forum?

Or more people who can understand that a patent that relates to manipulating a character with the stylus must have more specifics. It defies common sense that a broad patent covering the general case would exist, or that Sega would be the one holding it, or that Factor 5 would be the first studio sued for infringing it.

 

[Shinta]

If Sega patented all the things they did first, they'd probably rule the industry today.

 

[DiscoJer]

Or more people who can understand that a patent that relates to manipulating a character with the stylus must have more specifics. It defies common sense that a broad patent covering the general case would exist, or that Sega would be the one holding it, or that Factor 5 would be the first studio sued for infringing it.

But many patents defy common sense, especially software patents. So when a story comes along about a patent case, people are willing to believe the most absurd, because it just might be true.

 

[Karsticles]

I used to not mind Sega, like a friendly village idiot that you pat and send on its way.

Now it's time for the company to die.

 

[Eusis]

But many patents defy common sense, especially software patents. So when a story comes along about a patent case, people are willing to believe the most absurd, because it just might be true.

And it's likely there IS more to it... yet it's STILL a stupid patent anyway.

 

[FloppyDelux]

Patent trolls are at it again ,For ap...sega.

 

[Jamix012]

If Sega patented all the things they did first, they'd probably rule the industry today.

That's assuming that Nintendo didn't Patent pushing buttons on controllers first. Or heck, Magnavox Oddyssey had a controller didn't it?

 

[I should be doing hw]

they might be hoping to get a precedent set with this trial so they can go after Nintendo and Square-Enix

They truly have lost the plot if that is their intention.

 

[apricot]

Really, Sega?

 

[Hours Left]

Lets litigate our way out of debt!

 

[TaroYamada]

Lets litigate our way out of debt!

I don't believe SEGASammy is in debt, as of last earnings report I believe they had 2-3 billion on hand.

 

[RyanDG]

Anyone familiar with Inazuma able to say whether or not this sounds like something in the game? Still digging for any others that I can find... But this one specifically referenced a soccer touch screen game...


(21)Application number : 2011-131223 (71)Applicant : SEGA CORP
(22)Date of filing : 13.06.2011 (72)Inventor : TSUTSUMI ATSUSHI
ITO MITSUHIRO

(54) IMAGE PROCESSOR AND METHOD THEREOF
(57)Abstract:
PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To smoothly control the movement of a character by a simple operation.
SOLUTION: When carrying out one-two pass from one character 50 to the other character 52, single or double operation is carried out to the other character 52 on a touch panel 22. When the character 50 is drug-operated and moved thereafter, a ball is automatically passed back from the ally character 52 to the character 50 after the ball is moved to the ally character 52.


Edit - Image included with the patent:

 

[legend166]

Is this the first time we've had one publisher sue another over gameplay mechanics? Seems like it could open a horrible Pandora's Box.

 

[Jamix012]

Anyone familiar with Inazuma able to say whether or not this sounds like something in the game? Still digginf or any others that I can find... But this one specifically referenced a soccer touch screen game...


(21)Application number : 2011-131223 (71)Applicant : SEGA CORP
(22)Date of filing : 13.06.2011 (72)Inventor : TSUTSUMI ATSUSHI
ITO MITSUHIRO

(54) IMAGE PROCESSOR AND METHOD THEREOF
(57)Abstract:
PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To smoothly control the movement of a character by a simple operation.
SOLUTION: When carrying out one-two pass from one character 50 to the other character 52, single or double operation is carried out to the other character 52 on a touch panel 22. When the character 50 is drug-operated and moved thereafter, a ball is automatically passed back from the ally character 52 to the character 50 after the ball is moved to the ally character 52.

Inazuma is a football (soccer) RPG, so this fits. Drug operated. Google translate or am I missing some valuable terminology here.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Anyone familiar with Inazuma able to say whether or not this sounds like something in the game? Still digginf or any others that I can find... But this one specifically referenced a soccer touch screen game...


(21)Application number : 2011-131223 (71)Applicant : SEGA CORP
(22)Date of filing : 13.06.2011 (72)Inventor : TSUTSUMI ATSUSHI
ITO MITSUHIRO

(54) IMAGE PROCESSOR AND METHOD THEREOF
(57)Abstract:
PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To smoothly control the movement of a character by a simple operation.
SOLUTION: When carrying out one-two pass from one character 50 to the other character 52, single or double operation is carried out to the other character 52 on a touch panel 22. When the character 50 is drug-operated and moved thereafter, a ball is automatically passed back from the ally character 52 to the character 50 after the ball is moved to the ally character 52.

Somebody think of the children

 

[TaroYamada]

Anyone familiar with Inazuma able to say whether or not this sounds like something in the game? Still digginf or any others that I can find... But this one specifically referenced a soccer touch screen game...


(21)Application number : 2011-131223 (71)Applicant : SEGA CORP
(22)Date of filing : 13.06.2011 (72)Inventor : TSUTSUMI ATSUSHI
ITO MITSUHIRO

(54) IMAGE PROCESSOR AND METHOD THEREOF
(57)Abstract:
PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To smoothly control the movement of a character by a simple operation.
SOLUTION: When carrying out one-two pass from one character 50 to the other character 52, single or double operation is carried out to the other character 52 on a touch panel 22. When the character 50 is drug-operated and moved thereafter, a ball is automatically passed back from the ally character 52 to the character 50 after the ball is moved to the ally character 52.

I guess that sounds like it could be violated with IE, but it's frankly a BS patent. With the state of software patents being the way they are today in the US (if Japan is in the same ballpark) I guess they could have a case.

 

[Valnen]

Sega needs the money.

If this is the way they're going to choose to go after it I'm going to laugh when they crumble as a company.

Is this the first time we've had one publisher sue another over gameplay mechanics? Seems like it could open a horrible Pandora's Box.

Yeah, developers copying each other is how genres are made, this would be disastrous for the industry. Would not be a good thing if certain publishers were able to hold entire genres hostag via patents. Imagine if EA was the only company allowed to produce RPG's for example? Ewwww.

 

[RyanDG]

Inazuma is a football (soccer) RPG, so this fits. Drug operated. Google translate or am I missing some valuable terminology here.

lol. They are referencing the action of holding your finger or stylus on the screen and dragging it to another location to perform the maneuver. It details that in the full patent listing.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

So if that is the patent then they basically blocked any other developer from making a soccer game using the main input device of the DS.

Ugh I hate Software law.

 

[Dreamwriter]

But many patents defy common sense, especially software patents. So when a story comes along about a patent case, people are willing to believe the most absurd, because it just might be true.

It can't possibly be true, though. People should at least learn the very basics of what patents are before making statements like "all DS games must violate this!" or "Why don't they sue over Zelda DS games?". You cannot patent an idea - an idea like "controlling a character with a stylus". Otherwise I'd already be patenting teleportation and time travel and holographic barbie dolls.

What you patent is the exact implementation of an idea. So for example, maybe the patent is for mathematically casting a ray from the touch coordinates through a 3D game's camera down into the world until it strikes a ground-plane, and moving a character to the ray/ground plane intersection point.

I'm not saying that's the patent (it better damn well not be, that's a very common technique), I'm saying that's an example of how detailed the patent would have to be.

 

[Portugeezer]

Depending on the innards of the patent, they could have a case, but why does SEGA love bad publicity so much? Suing Level-5 is like arresting Santa Claus for breaking and entering.

Lol

 

[duckroll]

Thanks RyanDG, this thread certainly got more interesting now.

 

[RyanDG]

Btw - Here's the image included in the patent so people can see what the numbers reference:

Second Edit - Also - this patent has been renewed for a while. The oldest reference I've found for this one specifically has been 2004. Still looking though.

 

[Glass Rebel]

SEGA got sick of Hino's bullshit writing.

edit: lol that picture is 1:1 Inazuma Eleven.

 

[Eusis]

That makes it look like it's soccer related at least, but it makes me less inclined to think this isn't a BS patent.

 

[Jonnyram]

Wow, they patented it in June 2011, Inazuma Eleven first came out in August 2008. Good job, Sega.

Nevermind it was a renewal. Fair dos, Sega. You win this time.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Gotta sue fast.

 

[RyanDG]

Wow, they patented it in June 2011, Inazuma Eleven first came out in August 2008. Good job, Sega.

That's the renewal or refiling. The original patent is from back in 2004.

 

[duckroll]

Wow, they patented it in June 2011, Inazuma Eleven first came out in August 2008. Good job, Sega.

Apparently that's just the renewal. The patent might have been first made in 2004.

 

[EternalDarko]

Hell, don't a shit-ton of DS games do that?

That's basically the majority of touch based games where you're controlling a character. Ridiculous patent.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I don't think that's it, I found this patent which would make more sense, patent 8,146,018, filed in 2006 and granted March 27, 2012. It's basically a method of using different gestures to control multiple characters, controlling either one specific character or multiple characters depending on the gesture.

1. A method of allowing a human user to control movement of plural displayed animated characters displayed on a display screen of a computing device in response to gestures manually inputted by a human player, the portable computing device comprising a CPU core connected to a memory, a display controller between the CPU core and the display screen, and an input/output controller connected to the CPU core, the method comprising: displaying at least first and second animated characters at respective display positions on a touch sensitive display; detecting a single gesture traced on the touch sensitive display by a human user; and selecting, in response to said single gesture, whether to control said first and second animated characters to move individually or in tandem, including selecting individual movement of the first and second animated characters in response to a detected first single gesture tracing a first path relative to display positions of said displayed first and second animated characters, and selecting tandem movement of the first and second animated characters in response to a detected second single gesture tracing a second path relative to display positions of said displayed first and second animated characters that is distinguishable from the first path relative to display positions of said displayed first and second animated characters; conditioning the selecting based on the starting position of the detected gesture path relative to the display positions of the first and second animated characters; selecting movement direction of the selected animated character(s) based on direction of the detected gesture path; and moving the displayed first and second animated characters on the touch sensitive display individually or in tandem in the selected movement direction at least in part in accordance with the selection of individual or tandem movement.

2. The method of claim 1 further including selecting whether to flip the orientation of the first character in response to the detected gesture path before or during movement of the first character.

3. The method of claim 1 further including playing a video game using the first and second characters.

4. The method of claim 1 further including selecting whether to control the first and second characters to move in a common direction in response to the detected gesture path.

5. The method of claim 1 further including maintaining a spacing between the first and second characters as they move individually or in tandem.

6. The method of claim 1 further including selecting whether to control the first and second characters to move individually or as a group in response to the detected gesture.

7. The method of claim 1 further including selecting whether to control the first and second characters to move in different directions in response to the detected gesture path.

8. The method of claim 1 further including selecting the second game character for movement in response to collision between the first and second game characters.

Reading the patent examples, it sounds like they are patenting drawing a line through one or more characters, and all the characters touched move in the direction of the line.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think that's it, I found this patent which would make more sense, patent 8,146,018, filed in 2006 and granted March 27, 2012. It's basically a method of using different gestures to control multiple characters, controlling either one specific character or multiple characters depending on the gesture.

Well, they did say that 2 patents are being violated!

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Yeah honestly feel like that patent is bullshit. Wouldn't be acceptable to have something like "Press button on the controller to pass the ball" as a patent right?

 

[RyanDG]

I don't think that's it, I found this patent which would make more sense, patent 8,146,018, filed in 2006 and granted March 27, 2012. It's basically a method of using different gestures to control multiple characters, controlling either one specific character or multiple characters depending on the gesture.

Nintendo's the holder of that patent though and its a US patent. I'm thinking that we are looking for two Japanese patents that were violated.

 

[DrWong]

So Sega has been violated twice by Level 5?

 

[electroplankton]

Desperate Sega is desperate.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Nintendo's the holder of that patent though and its a US patent. I'm thinking that we are looking for two Japanese patents that were violated.

Game companies apply for patents in both Japan and the US, I doubt this is a Japan-only patent. But you're right, I was doing a search for Sega and for some reason "Duke Nukem 3d Instruction Manual for Sega Saturn", 3D Realms (1997)." is mentioned as a reference in that patent.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Hmmm, they must be planning to use the money so they can fund Yakuza 5 localization. I mean the money has to come from somewhere!

Believe?

 

[Slavik81]

Yeah honestly feel like that patent is bullshit. Wouldn't be acceptable to have something like "Press button on the controller to pass the ball" as a patent right?

Well, yeah. That's why you patent "Press button on the controller to pass the ball and show it via the Internet"

Totally different. And you'll have a patent on online game play!

 

[PataHikari]

Doesn't this describe like 90% of DS games made.

 

[Stephen Stills]

Haha, yeah go ahead and try to sue Nintendo and Square Enix, Sega, see where that gets you.

They successfully sued EA over that whole Simpsons/Crazy Taxi thing. I don't think winning against Nintendo or Square is out of the question.

 

[lupin23rd]

Without even looking at the thread i knew this was about Sega suing Level 5 over their patent on milking shit (ie. Inazuma) to death. Sega has a patent on that for Sonic.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Well, yeah. That's why you patent "Press button on the controller to pass the ball and show it via the Internet"

Totally different. And you'll have a patent on online game play!

Hahahahahaha....

Shoot me now.