oconnomiyaki
Member
Since this is a numbers thread, I noticed that the Nintendo Land PAL community (Europe and Oceania) has 353427 people in it. Now, in itself that only means that 353427 have joined it. But it's at least some indication of numbers.
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PAL Charts - Week 52 - Wii for art thoU?
- Thread starter Clay Davis
- Start date
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Anyone can post on any regions Miiverse, though.
Captain Smoker
Member
The Nintendo Land community is worldwide.
If you change to Japan, Nintendo Land still has the same size.
electroplankton
Banned
3rd party support is abysmal; it is the minimum effort 3rd parties could put on a platform just from the fact that is in the market. 3rd parties are not taking any risk, any risk: low-budget titles, multi-platform with PS3, porting. There are no big IPs, no intention to develop a proper Final Fantasy, a proper Metal Gear, a proper Kingdom Hearts, a proper Ace Combat, as it happened on PSP. The support in Japan is terrible.
oconnomiyaki
Member
I stand corrected, then. Sorry, just got the thing so I'm finding my way around. If it's all regions, I'm surprised that so many of them are so small.
You don't need to own the game to join the community, right?
Captain Smoker
Member
No, everyone can post in every community, game or region doesn't matter.I stand corrected, then. Sorry, just got the thing so I'm finding my way around. If it's all regions, I'm surprised that so many of them are so small.
You don't need to own the game to join the community, right?
michaelius
Banned
Are you counting the costs of PR disaster for a company that made it's a name for supporting consoles for 10 years to dreamcasting one of it's childs in PS4 launch period ?
That sure would give people confidence to buy PS4.
And yet when you look at the Metacritic yearly round-up, we see this:
Metacritic said:
So you're saying gaming sites are way out of touch with the general populace when it comes to review scores then?
electroplankton
Banned
Is this a sales thread? Yes, it is. And the support is abysmal in this sense. Third parties are not taking any risk, and they are just putting the minimum effort only because it's a console in the market, but it's clear they don't see it as a valid alternative to what they're actually doing. Where's Capcom? Where's Square Enix? Where are Konami and Namco Bandai outside porting and multi titles? PSP had a lot of great exclusive names, Vita is having none of them. And yeah, the fact that the best game on the platform is a 4 year-old porting just confirms what I'm saying.
I'm saying electroplankton lacks perspective.
You were talking about the quality of the software, not the quality of the sales.
That's what I get for only reading the first and last post in most threads.
Captain Smoker
Member
They do if you have the right multiplier.
One example, I did this with japanese sales, because we have weekly numbers:
Mario:
Week 2 LTD: 246.313
Miiverse: 28.722
Multiplier: 8,58
So, week 3 Miiverse was at 37.981, I took the 8,58 multiplier and got predicted numbers of 325.716 LTD.
The real Famitsu number was 324.994, which was only 722 units off.
If the multiplier is still the same, Mario should be around 555.100 by now.
The question is, what are the right multipliers for Europe or America.
They do if you have the right multiplier.
One example, I did this with japanese sales, because we have weekly numbers:
Mario:
Week 2 LTD: 246.313
Miiverse: 28.722
Multiplier: 8,58
So, week 3 Miiverse was at 37.981, I took the 8,58 multiplier and got predicted numbers of 325.716 LTD.
The real Famitsu number was 324.994, which was only 722 units off.
If the multiplier is still the same, Mario should be around 555.100 by now.
The question is, what are the right multipliers for Europe or America.
Ah ah, fun and interesting (even if you're going to be mocked by somes) exercise. For EU there's no way to find a multiplier given the lack of regular sales data. For the US, if the next NPD give us enough numbers, we'll can perhaps find a monthly multiplier and try to predict next month numbers with it.
test_account
XP-39C²
Sony doesnt have to keep pumping money into the Vita business. I think that is where we see things differently. Of course it cost money to operate a business, but i think it is possible to cut back a lot and still keep the product in the market, meaning that you dont have to put a lot of resources into it.
The Vita is probably already profitable when you factor in the sales of the memorycard and games. If they can keep doing that even at a very low number, i see that as a better alternative than cutting it off completely.
As i mentioned earlier, i think they will keep supporting the PS4 and PSM just as much regardless. I dont see the Vita having any noticeable impact on this. By the way, keep in mind that we're talking about cutting off the Vita completely within ~1 year here, that is what i'm arguing about. If we had talked about maybe within 2-3 years or so from now on, i agree it might be a bigger chance of happening based on the situation right now. But then again, many things can happen in 2-3 years, so i wouldnt have made too many solid predictions even then
There is also the option to not do anything at all. There are many platforms out there to support, so it is easy to drop one of them.
But i disagree with calling the Q1 2013 Vita line up in Japan for abysmal. Even if each individual game might not do much for the hardware on its own, it is always the complete library that has the biggest impact on hardware sales of all systems. The Vita actually has games coming, that is why i wont call the support abysmal. When i think of abysmal support, i think more in the direction that hardly any games are being released, and i cant say that about Q1 2013. Things could be much worse regarding 3rd party support for the Vita.
But if you guys feel that the quality level of support is abysmal, that is fine of course. I cant really argue much about that because i havnt played any of the games, nor do i know much about them. But even so, "abysmal" is afterall an adjective, which are all relative, so there is no right or wrong answer to this, no objective key answer.
electroplankton
Banned
I was only talking from a sales-perspective; I didn't specify I was talking about sales becaure we're in a sales thread. I can do it now: sales-wise, 3rd parties Vita support is abysmal.
Indeed, there's also the option to not doing anything at all, that's what Square Enix and Capcom are doing. Vita has games coming, but they're either ultra-niche titles that won't sell a lot, or porting /multi; in both cases, software houses are not spending so much in developing for Vita, and this leads to an abysmal support. People may be happy to see Muramasa again on HD (so I am) but it's just the minimum effort, and given how Marvelous is selling elsewhere, I doubt we will see something more in the future.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Metacritic doesn't say particularily much about a game's quality though:
Sonic the Hedgehog (360 version): 46%
Sonic Unleashed (PS3 version): 54%
Sonic Unleashed (Wii version): 66%
Now, you don't neccessarily know these games, so I will explain to you why I chose this sample. Sonic the Hedgehog is one of the worst games of all time. It makes everything wrong it can (with the sole exception of the music, the music is really nice!), it's full of bugs, slow as fuck, has two thirds of absolute bullshit (Shadow and Silver instead of Sonic), half an hour long, dreadful levels, especially when playing Silver, an outrageous physics engine, and loading times right out of hell (loading 30 seconds for one line of written text accompanied by a "Hey"). And did I mention the amount of lag you have to deal with, especially when playing Silver on a mission with a lot of enemies? It's amazing. I'm still on my way to get all S-Ranks (and therefore all achievements) for this game because I just can't stand this horrible piece of garbage despite being a huge Sonic fan. I've also played this game just yesterday, so my memory of it is fresh. And I'm not saying this because I'm a burned fan, Sonic the Hedgehog has next to no redeeming aspects.
Now, why did I compare it to the PS3-version and the Wii-version, not to the 360 version? PS360 and Wii version are totally different games (every single level is completely different!) with the PS360 version being the obviously way better game (it's really the same concept just dreadingly easy and short on Wii, yet fast and virbant on PS360. And this is not bias against the Wii, in fact, if anything, I'm a Nintendo-fan). The PS3 version performs worse than the 360 version though, so I compare this version to the 360 version of Sonic the Hedgehog (which is the better performing one here), because even the better performing 360 version of StH is comparing a hell of a lot worse than the PS3 version of Unleashed. So I did this to lower the influence of two things: The bad word of mouth Sonic the Hedgehog got before it released on PS3 and the impact of the purely technical problems.
So, what do we see? Sonic the Hedgehog is getting a worse Metacritic than Sonic Unleashed PS3, but really only marginally (8 out of 100 points difference). The difference in quality is astounding though. On the other hand, the game that should be somewhere inbetween those two games, Sonic Unleashed on Wii, gets an average of 66, which isn't great in itself, but still, it's 12 points, so more than the difference between Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed PS3. Judging the quality of these three games, one should come to three conclusions:
1. Sonic Unleashed Wii is the best of the pack, play this, if you play any of them
2. Sonic Unleashed PS3 is considerably worse than Sonic Unleashed Wii, only bother if you really liked Sonic Unleashed Wii
3. If you still liked Sonic Unleashed PS3, or even preferred it to Sonic Unleashed Wii (which I deem the most likely case), then there doesn't seem to be a lot of harm in playing Sonic the Hedgehog, too, after all, it's nearer in ratings to the PS3 version of Unleashed than the Wii version is to the PS3 version of Unleashed
None of these conclusions is correct. If you don't believe me, just watch some Youtube videos of gameplay of these three games. It's really obvious just from that.
test_account
XP-39C²
I see your point, but i see 'abysmal' as being the lowest thing possible. The Vita support could definitelly be much worse than what it is now, that is why i wont call it abysmal.
Marvelous is actually one of the companies that are supporting the Vita quite good in my opinion. They got two new and exclusive Vita games (Senran Kagura and Valhalla Knights 3), and Muramasa as you mentioned. Depending on how those games sell, i wouldnt be surprised to see more support from Marvelous.
Marvelous is also working on Soul Sacrifice. Eventhough this isnt exactly support from Marvelous in that sense because Sony is probably funding the whole game, it gives them experience on working with the Vita. I think this could benefit future developement if they chose to do that (having experience = making the developement easier and faster).
electroplankton
Banned
Vita support could not be much worse; that's the minimum effort software houses are putting only because it's in the market. Sales-wise, it had much stronger titles in 2012 (Miku and Persona 4); userbase will be slightly bigger in 2013, so in general games will perform better, but not so much.
Marvelous is working nicely, of course; but it's not working as it's believing in the platform. Soul Sacrifice is financed by Sony; Muramasa is a porting; Valhalla Knights is one of its worst series ever; Senran Kagura is a wrong decision to begin with, given how it sold on 3DS; all four started to be in development before the software house realized how awfully the platform was selling.
And Marvelous is one software house. How would you define a platform that has the biggest support from... Marvelous (and it's not even that great)? Abysmally supported.
test_account
XP-39C²
It could definitelly be worse, just cut the number of Vita games in half, then it is worse
Marvelous for example, they could just have Muramasa coming and not Valhalla Knights or Senran Kagura. Bandai Namco could just have made the PS3 versions and skipped the Vita versions of One Piece Musou 2 and Project Versus J. Much room to make the Vita Q1 2013 support worse.Valhalla Knights 1 and 2 sold relativelly well, other series have sold worse than those. We'll see if Senran Kagura Vita is a mistake or not.
Do you have any source that all of those games were in developement before late 2011? I would be surprised if i.e Muramasa Vita has been in developement for over 1 year.
I didnt mean to use Marvelous as an example of general Vita support. I just expanded/elaborated on Marvelous because you only mentioned Muramasa earlier and said that you didnt expect to see any support from Marvelous after this. They have more games than Muramasa coming, that is what i wanted to point out =)
If you think it is abysmal, that is fine. And you're right that it is supported by the definition you chose. There is afterall no key answer to this, not really any right or wrong answer to if it is abysmal or not. It depends on how one see it and decide to define it.
I think your phrasing is throwing me off. When you say 'third party support is abysmal', you're either talking quality or quantity, not sales potential. You make it sound like 3rd parties are selling games to the Vita.
If you'd said 'Vita third party games are unlikely to see high sales', I'd have understood you.
By looking at current status of DQX I dare to say it would do almost nothing to WiiU sales in Japan. Well, we'll see
German charts 2012
1. "FIFA 13" - Playstation 3 (500k +) (award on 05.11.)
2. "Diablo III" - PC
3. "Call Of Duty: Black Ops II" - Playstation 3
4. "Assassin's Creed III" - Playstation 3
5. "New Super Mario Bros. 2" - 3DS
6. "Guild Wars 2" - PC (200k +)
7. "Just Dance 4" - Wii
8. "FIFA 13" - Xbox 360
9. "World Of WarCraft: Mists Of Pandaria" - PC
10."Landwirtschafts-Simulator 2013" - PC (100k +)
No Vita or WiiU titles in top 100.
Numbers added from biu sale awards.
source: media control GfK
1. "FIFA 13" - Playstation 3 (500k +) (award on 05.11.)
2. "Diablo III" - PC
3. "Call Of Duty: Black Ops II" - Playstation 3
4. "Assassin's Creed III" - Playstation 3
5. "New Super Mario Bros. 2" - 3DS
6. "Guild Wars 2" - PC (200k +)
7. "Just Dance 4" - Wii
8. "FIFA 13" - Xbox 360
9. "World Of WarCraft: Mists Of Pandaria" - PC
10."Landwirtschafts-Simulator 2013" - PC (100k +)
No Vita or WiiU titles in top 100.
Numbers added from biu sale awards.
source: media control GfK
The perfect Dark
Banned
Bravo, Nintendo.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Holy shit. Not sure how this doesn't result in everyone at Nintendo Europe getting fired.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Because that represents about 3.5 weeks of sales in a 52 week year for Wii U
With number 1 at only 500k and number 10 around 100k though, I hope there are a lot of 50k+ games in the top 100 or that's pretty terrible for both consoles, probably worse for the one that's actually been on sale since February
bigtroyjon
Member
That's not how it works, those are only minimums. #10 could easily be around 190K depending how bunched up 6-10 are and there could be dozens of 100K games.
Edit-Quickly searching, Mass Effect 3 (PC), COD BO2(360+PC) and Halo 4 all went over 100K prior to December.
Edit2-Add Mario Party 9, RE6(PS3) and FIFA Street 4 to 100K list.
electroplankton
Banned
By looking at current status of DQX I dare to say it would do almost nothing to WiiU sales in Japan. Well, we'll see
Current status of Dragon Quest X is: 500.000 active users, fastest selling MMORPG ever in Japan, higher figures than Final Fantasy XI. Also: free beta in the Premium pack. I think it can do nicely.
If you followed the discussion I replied to, I wasn't the first one to say that 3rd party support was abysmal. And you would understand we were talking about sales potential, not actual quality.
It could definitelly be worse, just cut the number of Vita games in half, then it is worse
Valhalla Knights 1 and 2 sold relativelly well, other series have sold worse than those. We'll see if Senran Kagura Vita is a mistake or not.
Do you have any source that all of those games were in developement before late 2011? I would be surprised if i.e Muramasa Vita has been in developement for over 1 year.
I didnt mean to use Marvelous as an example of general Vita support. I just expanded/elaborated on Marvelous because you only mentioned Muramasa earlier and said that you didnt expect to see any support from Marvelous after this. They have more games than Muramasa coming, that is what i wanted to point out =)
If you think it is abysmal, that is fine. And you're right that it is supported by the definition you chose. There is afterall no key answer to this, not really any right or wrong answer to if it is abysmal or not. It depends on how one see it and decide to define it.
I repeat: how would you define a platform that has as the biggest support from Marvelous? Marvelous had only two 100k series, and neither of those are on PS Vita; it's betting on a dead horse by developing a porting, a spin-off of a niche (though successful... Elsewhere) series, and the fourth entry of an IP that sold on average 50k units, and was always panned for its awful quality.
The support could not be worse, given the circumstances: PSP, Sony, handheld in Japan. I mean, even the Wonderswan had a nice support from Square Enix.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Well since 40k WiiU's sold at UK launch and presumably at least 10-20k more since then, with many being Nintendoland bundles, what would that say about the German Top 100? Unless it absolutely 100% does not include bundles, I can't see how this wouldnt be a total disaster.
I added the numbers from the sales awards. Fifa PS3 got the 500k award already on 05.11 (last year was 20 days later)- so its probably higher. And there are a bunch of other titles that got 100k+. I didn't check it manually but there are probably 10-15 more titles that should be above 100k.
Edit: Need for Speed is missing, could be that all titles are above 200k - Biu sales awards for december were released on 07.12 - don't underestimate the power of Landwirtschafts Simulator - it does easily another 100k in one month!
Napalm_Frank
Member
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!
Both Wii U and Vita need price drop ASAP.
Well at least you can always count on germans to keep PC gaming afloat, even if it is Diablo 3 :3.
I bet you don't own DQX
I'm also wishing that "500,000 active users" is actually true...
Clay Davis
Member
thank you.
pieatorium
Member
Bundles are counted in the charts, the bottom of the charts are low numbers, the best selling of the WiiU sku's is the one with the bundled game, this game is not in the charts.
It's not hard to infer WiiU sales are quite low.
Basileus777
Member
Software charts include bundled software, and the most popular Wii U sku has Nintendoland bundled with it. Nintendoland chart position becomes a hardware indicator.
AdventureRacing
Member
I think what's he is implying is that no one is really putting any of their big games on the vita. Putting a niche game on the vita which happens to get a high metacritic score doesn't mean you are supporting the system very well.
I think saying 3rd party support is abysmal makes perfect sense in the environment of this thread.
Again, I can't divorce that terminology from quantity / quality. You need to specify that the library is abysmal in terms of sales potential otherwise you could be explaining low hardware sales numbers by pointing to an 'abysmal' software library.
It's just not clear that 'abysmal support' means sales potential, even in a sales thread. The appropriate terminology would be 'abysmal sales potential'.
You don't quantify levels of third party support by units sold, you quantify it by the number of titles released.
Napalm_Frank
Member
New Nintendo console releases for holiday season, new Mario game is not on top 100 charts.
It doesn't exactly look as good as people were expecting I think.
electroplankton
Banned
SmokyDave, just read the discussion I was replying to. People always spoke about sales potential, and I just followed the argument. I'm not the first one who said "abysmal support", though; stop complaining about terminology, when the context was clear to begin with (if you read, of course).
Also: I further specified what I was referring to, why continue to argue?
Dude, don't take it personally. It was poor phrasing, whoever coined it. That is all.
electroplankton
Banned
AdventureRacing
Member
I qualify the level of 3rd party support by the size of the IP's they are putting on the handheld. No one is really putting big franchises on the thing bar a small few and that is what matters. It doesn't matter how many niche games they throw at the vita (even if they score 90+ on metacritic) it still won't equal quality support.
To me the level of support the vita has received has been abysmal in that sense. Just whilst we're on this i consider the 3rd party support for the vita to be just as bad really, they just have 1st party software to prop themselves up.
If what you were saying is 'the Vita is receiving a low level of third party support and has no potential system sellers on the horizon', I totally agree.Poor phrasing that doesn't change the concept of what I was saying
The only company that has more than one Vita game I'm looking forward to at the moment is Tecmo.
I see what you're getting at. I guess I'm just not sales-age enough to look at the 'quality' of a library in terms of sales potential over whether the games are any good or not. If third parties released hundreds of million-selling shovelware titles, I wouldn't look at the library and think 'there's some quality!'.
As for big franchises, I see AC, NFS, FIFA and CoD as some of the biggest franchises in the UK.
Clay Davis
Member
So I guess that means the thread title remains how it is.
What a surprising turn of events.
test_account
XP-39C²
Sorry to sound a bit "pedantic" (or what i shall say), but this is the first time i see you ask this question in this discussion, so you're not really repeating it. But to answer the question, i dont know how i would define it. In this discussion i just wanted to say that i dont concider the upcoming Vita games in Q1 2013 to be abysmal support.
Naturally Senran Kagura is successful elsewhere when it has never been released other places than on the 3DS
It could be worse, i've already given examples of how it could be. Many companies could easily have developed those games for other systems, or dropped the multiplatform Vita version. It would be pointless to release these games if they thought they would lose money on it.
Besides Blue Wing Blitz (most likely a niche game), were any of the Square Enix games for Wonderwan (and Wonderswan Color) anything than ports? Above here you talk about that ports, niche games and spin-offs are abysmal support, how come Square Enix's Wondeswan support was nice in comparison?