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[Meelow]

That's what I'm worried about.

The jump from PS2/Xbox > PS3/360 was huge (like 20x)

I'm worried PS3/360 > PS4/720 won't be as big

Fixed, the difference between PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 was massive.

 

[TGO]

I just noticed your avatar. lol

check TheExorzist, top of the page 17 lol

 

[Takuya]

REALITY is when official specifications are confirmed, and named developers go on the record.

Speculation and RUMORS is where we are at the present.

It may very well happen that REALITY will coincide with these unconfirmed leaks, speculations and rumors. It also is quite possible that REALITY will not correspond with said information.

Yup, and reality currently shows, no secret sauce.

 

[iavi]

So, from all I've gathered so far, Sony revised Orbis into a beast, and might even add more ram (?), still, when they got wind of what MS was doing/dev complaints. Now the Durango is outspec'd of the two. Competition!

Any chance of a revised Durango in response to all this?

I want them both to spec bicker until the baseline is 1080p/4x MSAA.

 

[Ol No Bones]

If I had to guess either ms will have a more desirable price point or the rumors of multiple soc is true. Not a bad gpu but I hoped for more. With leaks you literally have no idea if any of it is true.

 

[Reiko]

check TheExorzist, top of the page 17 lol

lmao

This is awesome.

 

[nib95]

These specs have forced me, yes, forced me to make a predicktion:

Their will be a split this generation or at some point in the next 5-6 years. No longer will there be nothing but do-it-all, please everyone consoles. We will see the console world split into two separate focuses:

- One that focuses on services, lower power and technical specs, a more casual gaming experience.

- The other on high end services, high end gaming, (hardcore, if you will).



Honestly this is the thing that makes the most sense. If you only had one movie theater that showed a single movie at a time, when you play something Rated R you lose a lot of potential business, when you play something Rated G you lose business.

So why not just open up another theater?

Makes sense to my advanced brain.

I mentioned this in another thread before. Instead of cannibalising each others target markets, they'd branch out a little with slight variances in approach.

 

[Backfoggen]

That's what I'm worried about.

The jump from PS2/Xbox > PS3/360 was huge (like 10x)

I'm worried PS3/360 > PS4/720 won't be as big

The perceived jump will be about as big since the gen went longer.

 

[TGO]

And Meelows lol

 

[Deuterium]

Yup, and reality currently shows, no secret sauce.

**facepalm**

No, the REALITY is that nothing has been confirmed, one way or another. Period.

 

[Meelow]

And Meelows lol

Hm?

 

[guek]

I hope y'all realize that regardless of how you feel, about these numbers 90% of the people here are going to be hyped as fuck and blown away once they see some exclusives for either system.

 

[GhostTrick]

The specs in the PS4/720 blow away the 360/PS3, significantly.

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

 

[TheOddOne]

I hope y'all realize that regardless of how you feel, about these numbers 90% of the people here are going to be hyped as fuck and blown away once they see some exclusives for either system.

But the flops, man.

 

[i-Lo]

The new kit is something like twice as powerful in many regards as the old spec, so yeah. Developers were happy. It meant one dev target instead of two very different ones.

Any credence to EDGE's hearsay about developers being told that Sony is trying to match PS4's RAM (perhaps the portion actually available for game development) to XB3's?

 

[TGO]

?

What? you did Kazify your avatar cuz it look like it lol

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

17th January... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46551080&postcount=274

Yes but what if lherre's info is based on the older dev kit and VGLeaks on the newer one or the other way round?

It all seems moot now because the insiders seem to be leaving or stopping posting. I look forward to see games on the 20th.

 

[Reiko]

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

2008 power in 2013.

 

[Ashes]

I can't understand a thing from the leak, but from what most people say, Orbis seems to be more powerfull.
But is the diffference big enough that the average jon doe will notice? We probably will notice it, but we drink and eat videogames. Maybe MS will release a cheaper system, and maybe that's what will count in the end. I don't know...

On a side note, is great to see the console wars rise again. This just means that a new generation is coming!!

If people prefer x360, whatever the reason, be it xblive, Gears or Halo, they will buy x3. The brand loyalty is there in my opinion. And these two consoles are in the same ballpark. Slightly better isn't going to turn that around. I don't think so anyway.
Having said that, there are a lot of COD players out there who play on their x360, with not such a strong affinity, and the swing is going to come via price/performance I think. If PS4 retails at the same price as x3, and word of mouth suggests it is better, even if it is slightly, I think, the US market will be interesting. I still think x3 will sell better over there, given the same price point, knowing what we know now. Still, we haven't even seen how these things look yet. Lots and lots of reveals -possibly game changers- left yet. We'll know more by the E3 queue lengths.

 

[Takuya]

**facepalm**

No, the REALITY is that nothing has been confirmed, one way or another. Period.

Nothing is confirmed and there is NO signs of any secret sauce. Until proven otherwise there is NO confirmation of any specifications/hardware/other. Innocent until proven guilty right?

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

Big difference between a closed console and a PC though that has to also run Windows and all the million things Windows feels the need to run.

 

[FordGTGuy]

You are talking about launch models that came with PS2 hardware BC for example. Not taking into account that Ps3 is in fact a stronger machine, let's not spin it the other way now because this has been said for the whole generation, and the Sony 1st party has always been shown as proof.

The reason why PS3 was expensive was because Sony went for "more" not "less". You are comparing it to Durango, a system that is "less" and releasing at the same time, and isn't spending budget on a new media format.



Man are you really comparing phones to consoles?

My girlfriend will buy a phone and worry about the software in it, but she won't buy a gaming console. Doesn't matter if it has the same features as her phone, it ain't a phone.

Ps3 has blu ray like you said, and well in fact it didn't deliver Sony a better core audience than MS, which has a console stuck in the DVD generation. Think about that.

I'm comparing a consumer electronics device with a consumer electronics device.

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

Orbis is no where near a high end 2011-2012 gaming pc, what a delusional thought. Of course based on rumors you go out and try to buy a 2011-2012 high end gaming pc for $400-$600 and get ready to get laughed at.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

GAF should question sources harder. Who is behind these VGleaks? Could it be some of the very same GAF posters on here defending them? Still on the skeptical side here. MS knows Sony's position and where they stand financially, can't see them getting out powered by Sony unless they have something up their sleeve in terms of other add-on or new experiences.

Well, it's always prudent not to buy into a sentiment hook, line, and sinker if the claims don't come straight from the horse's mouth. Even knowledgeable people with the best of intentions can get their wires crossed or be in possession of outdated information that is no longer accurate. As such, it's not hard to understand how things can go wrong if one counts their chickens before they've hatched. And the stakes are high: you'll look like a fool when someone references your post history (I hope it's clear that I'm being largely facetious here).

However, 100% skepticism of every claim isn't entirely necessary. There are enough people that are generally in the know about this stuff that can drop hints even if they can't comment directly that can sift through pure BS. These kinds of leaks may not ultimately be accurate, but at the same time, some random schmuck who just reads video game news and makes up rumors for attention can probably be outed pretty quickly as a phony. Perhaps not by you and me, mind you, because what do we know? But there are plenty of people out there I think that, even if they don't know everything and/or aren't willing to share, will be able to spot a fake.

 

[Deuterium]

Nothing is confirmed and there is NO signs of any secret sauce. Until proven otherwise there is NO confirmation of any specifications/hardware/other.

Yes, I completely concur.

 

[H_Prestige]

Not sure why people think MS has the advantage in media. They sure as hell didn't this gen. That's Sony's forte.

Xbox could have the big advantage in OS and possibly this new cable box/DVR feature. But it's not going to magically beat the ps4 in multimedia.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

The Durango GPU supports 2x, 4x, and 8x MSAA levels

Interesting.


Bunch of number crunchers here said 4x and 8x MSAA couldn't happen with the numbers we were given. (Don't think they were specifically referring to FSAA).

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Not sure why people think MS has the advantage in media. They sure as hell didn't this gen. That's Sony's forte.

Xbox could have the big advantage in OS and possibly this new cable box/DVR feature. But it's not going to magically beat the ps4 in multimedia.

I never got that either I could watch Hulu and Netflix on my PS3 with no paywall blocking them out. I know people that bought a PS3 over a 360 for that very reason. Seriously Xbox Live Gold and the paywall it presents needs to go, but it is such a money generator they almost can't get rid of it.

 

[Reiko]

Interesting.


Bunch of number crunchers here said 4x and 8x MSAA couldn't happen with the numbers we were given. (Don't think they were specifically referring to FSAA).

I was told 1080p with 2XMSAA at best...

 

[subversus]

But it's not going to magically beat the ps4 in multimedia.

and in Europe/Japan/other countries except US/UK.

 

[shinobi602]

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

My point still stands though. The specs in Durango destroys the 360.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I hope y'all realize that regardless of how you feel, about these numbers 90% of the people here are going to be hyped as fuck and blown away once they see some exclusives for either system.

Finally something I can agree with. February 20th can't come soon enough.

The mention of Yoshida having a trip around the world visiting studios to make sure their stuff is ready for prime-time makes me hype as fuck.

Make it rain, Sony.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Hmm this is a bit disconcerting. I'll still wait until we get some more solid evidence but it's looking like I'll get Orbis first and Durango later in the generation.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

This is the first time I got introduced to "ROPS".

Anywho, if Microsoft don't bump their specs, they won't succeed I think. PS3 and 360 are about equal power wise, which makes the software really interesting. PS2 was significantly weaker then Xbox, but it had the software.

If Microsoft has the weaker console AND will drop support for exlusives 2 years into its lifecycle, then it's gameover Microsoft. As it stand, the RAM is significantly superior on PS4 and the GPU is significantly superior. CPU is about equal so, wth MS? Step yo game up.

 

[Saty]

aegies, will you be inclined to post (here or at Polygon) everything you know in close certainty about Orbis before Sony's announcement on the 20th?

I mean, whatever info you are sitting on right now won't be 'worth' much pretty soon.

 

[H_Prestige]

I never got that either I could watch Hulu and Netflix on my PS3 with no paywall blocking them out. I know people that bought a PS3 over a 360 for that very reason. Seriously Xbox Live Gold and the paywall it presents needs to go, but it is such a money generator they almost can't get rid of it.

The file support is limited too, right?

Not to mention the DVD playback was pure garbage compared to the ps3, which is a very good upscaler.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Finally something I can agree with. February 20th can't come soon enough.

The mention of Yoshida having a trip around the world visiting studios to make sure their stuff is ready for prime-time makes me hype as fuck.

Make it rain, Sony.

Wait is that true? Oh boy.....this is going to be fun.

Also your avatar is the perfect candidate to be Kazified.

 

[The Omega Man]

I've also said: durango was. It's not anymore. Orbis saw a major hardware change last summer. Also, there's already been public information that developers have more confidence in Microsoft's platform.

Performance between the two systems will be very close. Third party games will look basically the same, at least for the first couple of years, at which point either the ram difference will start to matter, or the flop difference will. And if either company "wins," it'll be based on their services and the exclusive content (not games, but content) they deliver first.

Or they'll both tank and no more consoles.

this right here shows your true colors, it always seemed that way anyway

 

[cyberheater]

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

Please explain why you think the 720 is more like a 2008 pc and PS4 is more like a PC in 2011/2012.

Given that they are both using the same multicore CPU running at the same speed and the GPU's are both are using state of the art technology.

I'm all ears and welcome your detailed analysis.

 

[FordGTGuy]

This is the first time I got introduced to "ROPS".

Anywho, if Microsoft don't bump their specs, they won't succeed I think. PS3 and 360 are about equal power wise, which makes the software really interesting. PS2 was significantly weaker then Xbox, but it had the software.

If Microsoft has the weaker console AND will drop support for exlusives 2 years into its lifecycle, then it's gameover Microsoft. As it stand, the RAM is significantly superior on PS4 and the GPU is significantly superior. CPU is about equal so, wth MS? Step yo game up.

Even if Microsoft went through this generation like you said it most definitely would not be gameover for Microsoft....

 

[i-Lo]

I'm comparing a consumer electronics device with a consumer electronics device.



Orbis is no where near a high end 2011-2012 gaming pc, what a delusional thought. Of course based on rumors you go out and try to buy a 2011-2012 high end gaming pc for $400-$600 and get ready to get laughed at.

Keep fighting the good fight. MS needs more dedicated soldiers posted on all fronts.

 

[gofreak]

I was told 1080p with 2XMSAA at best...

1080p with 2xMSAA is what'll fit in eSRAM at once.

You can render into DDR3 or tile to fit a bigger buffer in eSRAM if you want. That comes with tradeoffs, but might as well support higher MSAA modes if a developer does want to target that and do the necessary elsewhere to make it happen.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Interesting.


Bunch of number crunchers here said 4x and 8x MSAA couldn't happen with the numbers we were given. (Don't think they were specifically referring to FSAA).

Eh, the hit varies based on resolution. Im plenty sure Durango can do 8x MSAA at 720p. 1080P 8X MSAA on the other hand is likely a no go without being a bottleneck.

 

[itsgreen]

This is the first time I got introduced to "ROPS".

Anywho, if Microsoft don't bump their specs, they won't succeed I think. PS3 and 360 are about equal power wise, which makes the software really interesting. PS2 was significantly weaker then Xbox, but it had the software.

If Microsoft has the weaker console AND will drop support for exlusives 2 years into its lifecycle, then it's gameover Microsoft. As it stand, the RAM is significantly superior on PS4 and the GPU is significantly superior. CPU is about equal so, wth MS? Step yo game up.

I think your definition of success differs from MS's definition...

MS wants a broad device for a good price sold at minimal losses (or profit), MS is fine with being 30% behind Sony if they can get an advantage on the bottomline...

 

[charsace]

720 seems like mid range PC. I mean... it looks on par with what you could have back in 2008 power wise.
While PS4 seems more like high range PC. More like 2011/2012.

There was DirectX 11.1 level hardware in 2008?

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

So this cements the fact that Orbis will be mor powerful than Durango and by some amount. Better GPU and GDDR5 RAM.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Keep fighting the good fight. MS needs more dedicated soldiers posted on all fronts.

Instead of bringing up points to counter mine let's just call me a fanboy and be done with it I guess?

Really if you think the PS4 will match a 2012 high end PC with a i7 and a GTX 690 you're out of your mind, or a i5 with a GTX 580 for that matter.

I'll even go down to a 560 ti 448 and a i5 and still it won't match it and that's mid range.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Yeah, but it will likely not be half the framerate (if you would bench) or anything - I am getting the impression people think that's going to be the case, or that there would be a generational difference in those two systems.

It doesn't have to be, when I upgraded from a 4870 to a 6870 on pc (60 percent performance difference) it made a world of difference.

Minimum framerates at 40 instead of 25-30 , which in turn means I can play my games at 1600x1200 (~1080p) instead of 1280x1024 and use some AA while still maintaining decent framerates.
I have more choice, more legroom and have to make less awful compromises all the time, everything looks and runs noticably better.

Point is: a 50 percent performance difference or something is definitely very noticable.
And personally it's something I VERY much appreciate.

I'd love another 50 percent performance increase on my pc (but all I care about is minimum framerates and my cpu is what's limiting me atm for those and that would be a 370 euro upgrade for cpu+mobo + ddr3 instead of ddr2 that I have atm).

With multiplatform games devs won't be busting their ass to adjust the level layouts and effects so they each run at the same framerate and resolution, the weaker one is always going to suffer in framerate or image quality.
Most gaffers don't even expect 1080p to be the standard on orbis (I do, it would be pathetic if not necause of how poorly LCD panels handle scaling) , the thought of more 720p (or if gaf is right sub 720p) games on the weaker console makes me cringe.

 

[KageMaru]

I don't know (or haven't had confirmed) any content exclusives from publishers for either system. But given that, say, COD was marketed as an Xbox game this generation, and saw DLC a month early, and that EA had to react and give BF3 DLC to the PS3 first to try to differentiate, and that almost every "exclusive" PSN or XBLA game went to other platforms six months to a year later, what do you think will happen? The platform holders don't need a game or its DLC forever. They need it first, long enough for people broadly not to care when it shows up later on the other guy's system.

I just don't see timed exclusivity being a big deal next gen. Both MS and Sony have rules that require additional content for any late ports AFAIK, which is not very appealing to publishers.

Not true. COD sales on PS3 show that times exclusive 360 DLC doesn't play such a big role.

We really have no way of knowing how big of an impact this was unless we were able to see how close the sales would be without the exclusive deal. I always figured most saw the 360 as the CoD machine.

Agreed.

Couldn't care less about Sony or MS.

I go with the "Living Room Windows Box (Durango) vs True Gamers Console(Orbis)"-theme for my hype towards the PS4.

Your mileage may vary, off course...

Well my line of thinking is that unless you were always planning on getting one or the other, again due to corporate bias, there's no real reason to have a decision locked up at this point. It's unlikely that we'll see any major franchises at launch, so using exclusives as an excuse doesn't make much sense IMO.

I know so far it's looking like I'll get a PS4 first and the Durango (and Wii-U) down the road, but that can change over the next year.

 

[Derrick01]

I hope y'all realize that regardless of how you feel, about these numbers 90% of the people here are going to be hyped as fuck and blown away once they see some exclusives for either system.

They'll just be more blown away by Sony's if the specs for both match up to these leaks.

 

[Clay Davis]

show me the games, enough with this useless numbers comparisons. some me some bloody games.

I'm going to be really pissed if sony don't show some games in a couple of weeks and doubly pissed if microsoft don't show something before e3.