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[tkscz]

Besides the obvious (Metroid games and Castlevania games) what games fit into this Adventure sub-genre?

For those who don't understand the difference between the average adventure game and a path finder, path finders have the player figure out where their next path lies by allowing the player to venture into the world, finding items in which the player uses to find new paths in order to finish the quest, all the while giving the player little to no hints about where their next path lies.

I think Tomba falls well into the sub-genre. The game starts off by giving you a hint about where to go but soon becomes one of the biggest path finders I've ever played. The player is sent off to find each boss (pigs and their pig bags) without any idea where to go. There are key items the player needs to proceed and upgrade themselves with in order to get through the game, along with other items the player can find that will simply make the game easier to get through. The only difference is it's executed via events (missions) that the player can or must go through, the game rarely tells you which ones are necessary.

 

[Bboy AJ]

While I'm not sure it fits it completely, I'm currently playing through Dark Souls. I'm constantly finding myself unaware of where to go or what to do. I'm backtracking often. Things are very often not clear. I just kind of push on, hoping that last boss I defeated gave me a key I can use on a door I recently passed.

 

[Mubbed]

Resident Evil 2.

 

[Instro]

Aquaria, Cave Story. Dark Souls and Arkham Asylum to some degree.

 

[Yaboosh]

Shadow Complex.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Shadow Complex for sure (one of the achievements even is a reference to Metroid). There's a few indies on Steam that are a good fit like Capsized and Aquaria. Other than that it's pretty much only titles that named the sub-genre.

 

[trimon]

When I first played Soul Reaver I thought it was a linear game up until I had to look up a walkthrough and find out that I had to use my new found powers from Melchiah to phase through a gate from an earlier section. Then I realized everything was connected. I loved the feeling of earning new powers like climbing AND SWIMMING (didn't expect this because, you know, he died by water) and using them to find new areas.

 

[sn00zer]

Tomba!

 

[Mass Effect]

I'd say Dust: An Elysian Tail is one, albeit a bit more straight-forward than Metroid or Castlevania.

 

[Ikon]

Bioshock I thought felt like one of these games.

 

[TimmiT]

The new Tomb Raider sort of. It has Metroidvania elements but it constantly points out where you need to go and mostly takes place in other, non-Metroidvania parts.

Besides that, the Batman Arkham games and Shadow Complex are the only two games I can currently think of.

 

[noobasuar]

Love that you already mentioned Tomba! and is defiantly one of the reasons that I love the game so much.

But yeah can't think of much more than what's already been mentioned.

 

[Manmademan]

Arkham asylum, or arkham city.

 

[Caffeine]

Axiom Verge not out yet but im definatly buying day 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9FNZTmLwm7I

 

[Instro]

Bioshock I thought felt like one of these games.

System Shock and Bioshock to a lesser degree do have that sort of feel, although they are much more driven games.

 

[Ocaso]

Besides the obvious (Metroid games and Castlevania games) what games fit into this Adventure sub-genre?

For those who don't understand the difference between the average adventure game and a path finder, path finders have the player figure out where their next path lies by allowing the player to venture into the world, finding items in which the player uses to find new paths in order to finish the quest, all the while giving the player little to no hints about where their next path lies.

I think Tomba falls well into the sub-genre. The game starts off by giving you a hint about where to go but soon becomes one of the biggest path finders I've ever played. The player is sent off to find each boss (pigs and their pig bags) without any idea where to go. There are key items the player needs to proceed and upgrade themselves with in order to get through the game, along with other items the player can find that will simply make the game easier to get through. The only difference is it's executed via events (missions) that the player can or must go through, the game rarely tells you which ones are necessary.

Bless you for calling it the pathfinding genre. I'd prefer it if that were the term used to describe it, but even then people are still going to lump in games where pathfinding plays little or no role (e.g. Cave Story).

3D games of this ilk are so rare that aside from the main Metroid Prime titles and The Divide: Enemies Within, I don't know of any others. People like to mention Arkham Asylum and perhaps more recently the Tomb Raider reboot (which I've not completed), but these don't really put the focus on pathfinding even if they share some Metroid elements. Never played Tomba or Soul Reaver, but I'd like to try both.

In 2D, Shadow Complex is definitely a pathfinding game and one made by people who clearly understood that getting lost in the world was part of the appeal of the titles that inspired it. A damn shame it never got a sequel. A few others I've played:

Aquaria
Lyle in Cube Sector
An Untitled Story
Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet

I think Guacamelee and perhaps Axiom Verge are supposed to be upcoming pathfinding games, but there are way too few of these types of games being released.

Games that are not pathfinding games but generally get lumped into that category because of the implementation of upgrades or an interconnected level structure:

Cave Story
Arkham Asylum
Arkham City
Dust: An Elysian Tail

It's easy to see why these games are not pathfinding games if you merely stop to consider how many times in the game you had to decipher where to go next. You'll notice the answer is zero, even if those games have elements of Metroidvanias/pathfinding games.

Bioshock is as much a pathfinding game as Halo, which is to say not at all.

 

[EVH]

La Mulana is one of the best of this kind. It is an awesome, really difficult and long long game.

 

[gngf123]

Most of the good ones that I know of have been already mentioned. The only other one I can think of is La-Mulana.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Aquaria is my favorite 'metroidvania'. Everyone should give it a chance, and don't let the slow start stop you. Beautiful game, so incredibly atmospheric, and it's a lot of fun too.

 

[~ZIO~]

If I remember correctly, Super Adventure Island 2 fits this subgenre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slFQhGcP8hc

The game is amazing to boot.

 

[Instro]

Axiom Verge not out yet but im definatly buying day 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9FNZTmLwm7I

Thanks for posting this, looks cool.

 

[Kazerei]

Kirby and the Amazing Mirror. Map layout is like a Metroidvania. In each level, there's a bunch of stuff you have to do, and you can go anywhere and do them in any order. There's various obstacles that require certain powerups to get through, so you have to find the enemies that give the right powerups.

 

[Caffeine]

if I had to choose a recent title that would fit this genre it would be dark souls. it has a single area that is connected in multiple ways similar to a castlevania castle and other than a guy telling you to go ring 2 bells one above and one below you really have to explore the world for what it is.

it definatley falls under a path finder for the most part.

 

[gngf123]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Audjc8k7dnB0dERfd0Rub04yeGhDSkJvb19jQmVib3c#gid=0

Just stumbled on this, might be worth a look.

 

[Caffeine]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Audjc8k7dnB0dERfd0Rub04yeGhDSkJvb19jQmVib3c#gid=0

Just stumbled on this, might be worth a look.

thanks for the list oh yes how could i forget cave story.

 

[corn_fest]

VVVVVV, kinda - you don't gain any abilities or items, but you have to explore the world map to find areas to progress, and you can do them in any order you want.

 

[Winterfang]

SO GOOD

 

[Ocaso]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Audjc8k7dnB0dERfd0Rub04yeGhDSkJvb19jQmVib3c#gid=0

Just stumbled on this, might be worth a look.

This is interesting and, at first glance, includes almost every 2D pathfinding game I've played on PC. Unfortunately it also includes non-pathfinding games like Arkham Asylum and Darksiders. I imagine there must be other titles that are also misidentified. These games are similar and obviously enough for some people to consider them pathfinding games, but if you're looking to get that thrill of discovery that comes from getting lost and figuring out where to go, they won't deliver that.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Dark Souls is a pretty good example on how it can be done in 3D. Saying it's a 3D Symphony of the Night is pretty true. Metroid Prime is a awesome 3D Super Metroid. Retro and Miyamoto nailed its design.

Also Shadow Complex is great. Then there's Monster Tale for the DS which is a highly underrated gem and a fantastic 2D game.

SO GOOD

Never played this. I want to check it out now! Did some research. Had no idea it used the Castlevania Aria of Sorrow engine.

 

[blainethemono]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Audjc8k7dnB0dERfd0Rub04yeGhDSkJvb19jQmVib3c#gid=0

Just stumbled on this, might be worth a look.

another list - http://metroidvanias.tumblr.com/

 

[tkscz]

Bless you for calling it the pathfinding genre. I'd prefer it if that were the term used to describe it, but even then people are still going to lump in games where pathfinding plays little or no role (e.g. Cave Story).

3D games of this ilk are so rare that aside from the main Metroid Prime titles and The Divide: Enemies Within, I don't know of any others. People like to mention Arkham Asylum and perhaps more recently the Tomb Raider reboot (which I've not completed), but these don't really put the focus on pathfinding even if they share some Metroid elements. Never played Tomba, but I'd like to try it.

In 2D, Shadow Complex is definitely a pathfinding game and one made by people who clearly understood that getting lost in the world was part of the appeal of the titles that inspired it. A few others I've played:

Aquaria
Lyle in Cube Sector
An Untitled Story

Like I said in the description, the game will start off like it isn't a pathfind, and that it's more of a 2D platformer with "events" leading you through the quest.

The game quickly changes to a more pathfinder around the point it tells you to find the 1,000 year old man (doesn't tell you where he is, just to find him).

It does the pathfinding through it's event system. Some events are extra, but gain you skills and items that make the game easier,

Spoiler

collecting the leaf butterflies for example (there are 26) and I believe you become lighter, run faster and jump higher, as a reward.

Some are necessary,

Spoiler

Finding the old men gets you keys to treasure chest , some of which are very important to continue

Others are a mix,

Spoiler

in the first part of a the game, you can get the monkey some bananas and he'll teach you how to dash. It seems optional as you don't NEED the dash, but if you help the monkey twice, you meet him again in the game, he teaches you how to swim, something you need to know to progress through the game

.

And again, how to complete the events and where they are meant to be completely is never told to you. It's up to the player to find out which ones are necessary, where to complete them and hell, where even to find the events.

 

[Ocaso]

Dark Souls is a pretty good example on how it can be done in 3D. Saying it's a 3D Symphony of the Night is pretty true. Metroid Prime is a awesome 3D Super Metroid. Retro and Miyamoto nailed its design.

Also Shadow Complex is great. Then there's Monster Tale for the DS which is a highly underrated gem and a fantastic 2D game.

There was a thread discussing this recently and Dark Souls got mentioned frequently, but many users said that even though the game is non-linear and has a single interconnected world, it is never necessary to figure out where to go (i.e. find the right path). Instead it seems you can simply explore where you like, when you like. That doesn't sound like a pathfinding game and is certainly not what Symphony of the Night was.

 

[Terra]

Castlevania - Lament of Innocence, PS2.
Actually an underlooked gem with somewhat open structure and many hidden areas & items. The music is close to SOTN too.

 

[Deified Data]

Dark Souls was a total Metroidvania, albeit somewhat broken by the Master Key.

I think just about any semi-open world game benefits from locking off certain parts of the map - keeps things fresh and makes early-game exploration less intimidating and more focused.

 

[kassatsu]

Knytt Underground

 

[Instro]

Speaking of which, did any of those Metroid fan games like the Metroid 2 remake ever get finished?

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

There was a thread discussing this recently and Dark Souls got mentioned frequently, but many users said that even though the game is non-linear and has a single interconnected world, it is never necessary to figure out where to go (i.e. find the right path). Instead it seems you can simply explore where you like, when you like. That doesn't sound like a pathfinding game and is certainly not what Symphony of the Night was.

I can see that. I think it's a mix of both. I know you can explore anywhere you like, but it also has areas you can't access until later.

 

[Winterfang]

Dark Souls is a pretty good example on how it can be done in 3D. Saying it's a 3D Symphony of the Night is pretty true. Metroid Prime is a awesome 3D Super Metroid. Retro and Miyamoto nailed its design.

Also Shadow Complex is great. Then there's Monster Tale for the DS which is a highly underrated gem and a fantastic 2D game.


Never played this. I want to check it out now! Did some research. Had no idea it used the Castlevania Aria of Sorrow engine.

It's literally Castlevania. Give it a try if you can.

 

[tkscz]

Anyone try bloody vampire on the 3DS eshop? I heard it was a good pathfinder.

 

[eXistor]

Wonder Boy in Monster World (Megadrive/Genesis) is a fantastic entry in the genre.

 

[Instro]

There was a thread discussing this recently and Dark Souls got mentioned frequently, but many users said that even though the game is non-linear and has a single interconnected world, it is never necessary to figure out where to go (i.e. find the right path). Instead it seems you can simply explore where you like, when you like. That doesn't sound like a pathfinding game and is certainly not what Symphony of the Night was.

You cant really explore where you want when you want in Dark Souls, certain paths are presented to you at various times but you are generally locked to a clear progression through the game whether by simply being too weak to tackle certain places, or by needing various keys, items, or bosses killed. The decision to take a path is generally made by process of elimination because either an area will kill you in seconds or it will be locked by a door of some kind.

It's different from the ability style locks of many of these sorts of games, since you are more or less "stat locked" from going to certain places in the game. Its definitely more immediately open than a typical pathfinding/metroid type game, but it still holds those kinds of mechanics.

 

[Ocaso]

I can see that. I think it's a mix of both. I know you can explore anywhere you like, but it also has areas you can't access until later.

You cant really explore where you want when you want in Dark Souls, certain paths are presented to you at various times but you are generally locked to a clear progression through the game whether by simply being too weak to tackle certain places, or by needing various keys, items, or bosses killed. The decision to take a path is generally made by process of elimination because either an area will kill you in seconds or it will be locked by a door of some kind.

It's different from the ability style locks of many of these sorts of games, since you are more or less "stat locked" from going to certain places in the game. Its definitely more immediately open than a typical pathfinding/metroid type game, but it still holds those kinds of mechanics.

I'll have to try it out myself, I guess, but it doesn't really sound like it holds the appeal of pathfinding games. In these games discovering the right place to go after obtaining a new ability is pretty much sine qua non.

So, because of this thread, I now know there is something called Mosesvania. I have no words.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

3D games of this ilk are so rare that aside from the main Metroid Prime titles and The Divide: Enemies Within, I don't know of any others. People like to mention Arkham Asylum and perhaps more recently the Tomb Raider reboot (which I've not completed), but these don't really put the focus on pathfinding even if they share some Metroid elements. Never played Tomba or Soul Reaver, but I'd like to try both.

In 2D, Shadow Complex is definitely a pathfinding game and one made by people who clearly understood that getting lost in the world was part of the appeal of the titles that inspired it. A damn shame it never got a sequel. A few others I've played:

Aquaria
Lyle in Cube Sector
An Untitled Story
Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet

I think Guacamelee and perhaps Axiom Verge are supposed to be upcoming pathfinding games, but there are way too few of these types of games being released.

Games that are not pathfinding games but generally get lumped into that category because of the implementation of upgrades or an interconnected level structure:

Cave Story
Arkham Asylum
Arkham City
Dust: An Elysian Tail

It's easy to see why these games are not pathfinding games if you merely stop to consider how many times in the game you had to decipher where to go next. You'll notice the answer is zero, even if those games have elements of Metroidvanias/pathfinding games.

Bioshock is as much a pathfinding game as Halo, which is to say not at all.

Agreed with the bolded in regards to the bolded games, particularly Asylum. I would hate for someone to be told it's a metroidvania and expect such going in.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Speaking of which, did any of those Metroid fan games like the Metroid 2 remake ever get finished?

Totally forgot about them, might have to go have a dig around. On the subject of fan games I remember seeing someone trying to make a MegaMan pathfinder (that's the new term we're trying to popularise right?) that had interconnecting levels, various Robot Masters and totally open-ended. I think they bit off more than they could chew though and it's been dark for a while now.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Yeah, I never understood how the Batman Arkham games can be considered as MetroVania.

 

[Instro]

I'll have to try it out myself, I guess, but it doesn't really sound like it holds the appeal of pathfinding games. In these games discovering the right place to go after obtaining a new ability is pretty much sine qua non.

So, because of this thread, I now know there is something called Mosesvania. I have no words.

I feel the same way myself, generally ability locked progression is geared towards intricate level design, which is really what sets these sorts of games apart. Developers have to consider ways to lock parts of the game out by building obstacles that can only be overcome with certain abilities, and there's a bigger focus on abilities/items that improve and alter mobility. Dark Souls really doesn't have this, and its areas are not designed in this manner. As I said though, there is still a certain feeling when playing Dark Souls that it holds some similarities to your Metroids or Castlevanias, mainly because of the non linearity, exploration, and it not being a completely open world.

Yeah, I never understood how the Batman Arkham games can be considered as MetroVania.

Why is that? Ignoring City, it's pretty easy to see in Asylum. You acquire abilities to access new parts of the island which are locked off from Batman, although the way abilities are acquired is very different from how you would traditionally get them in these games. Asylum is certainly more straightforward in its design, but the game is very explorable and requires all abilities to be used to find secrets and new areas.

 

[waterydave]

SO GOOD

came to post this. It is an excellent game and you donot need to be a fan of the manga to enjoy it. Highly recommend it. A++

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Bless you for calling it the pathfinding genre. I'd prefer it if that were the term used to describe it, but even then people are still going to lump in games where pathfinding plays little or no role (e.g. Cave Story).

3D games of this ilk are so rare that aside from the main Metroid Prime titles and The Divide: Enemies Within, I don't know of any others. People like to mention Arkham Asylum and perhaps more recently the Tomb Raider reboot (which I've not completed), but these don't really put the focus on pathfinding even if they share some Metroid elements. Never played Tomba or Soul Reaver, but I'd like to try both.

In 2D, Shadow Complex is definitely a pathfinding game and one made by people who clearly understood that getting lost in the world was part of the appeal of the titles that inspired it. A damn shame it never got a sequel. A few others I've played:

Aquaria
Lyle in Cube Sector
An Untitled Story
Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet

I think Guacamelee and perhaps Axiom Verge are supposed to be upcoming pathfinding games, but there are way too few of these types of games being released.

Games that are not pathfinding games but generally get lumped into that category because of the implementation of upgrades or an interconnected level structure:

Cave Story
Arkham Asylum
Arkham City
Dust: An Elysian Tail

It's easy to see why these games are not pathfinding games if you merely stop to consider how many times in the game you had to decipher where to go next. You'll notice the answer is zero, even if those games have elements of Metroidvanias/pathfinding games.

Bioshock is as much a pathfinding game as Halo, which is to say not at all.

I also love this term, pathfinding. In that sense Metroid would essentially be a mix of pathfinding and arcade shmup action.

Have you ever played Endless Ocean 2?
That game gave me serious Metroid vibes, so much that I wanted Arika (the dev) to make a Metroid game for Nintendo. The game isn't about action at all, but in terms of exploring a huge and disorientating environment, getting lost only to accidentally discover hidden horrors or secret wonders, it has such a magnificent atmosphere.

spoilers ahead:
From discovering

Spoiler

the cave with beautiful wall paintings of an ancient civilization in the Ciceros Staights

to figuring out the location of the

Spoiler

entrance to the hollowed out iceberg in the North Sea

and so many other secret locations ranging from the Amazon river to hundreds of meters below sea level in pitch-black ocean crevices, just felt so good and gave me goosebumps all over.
end spoilers.

Not only that, but discovering the hundreds of species in the game, from the bizarre to the majestic to downright terrifying, many of which hidden in secret niches and accessible only during certain times of day added even more to the glorious sense of discovery.

The way the team implemented some of these niches artistically was both beautiful and reminded me of a more 'organic' take on scanning and zooming in the Prime games.

If you haven't played it and own a Wii or Wii U, I really think you should. Just imaging a game that copies Endless Ocean 2's blueprint but switches the aquatic setting for an alien world gets me hyped to hell and back!

 

[Rad-]

Shadow Complex is pure metroidvania. And it's a great game. Shame on Epic/Chair for not making a sequel.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Zelda. :3

Actually a lot of Nintendo games tend to fall into this sort of ability based puzzle solving exploration adventuring. Pikmin, Paper Mario, etc.