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'Has 'Guild Wars 2' become too complicated?' (Interview)

Has 'Guild Wars 2' Become Too Complicated?

When Guild Wars 2 (GW2) came out, I jumped into it enthusiastically and played for several weeks. But life happens, as it does, and I’ve been only able to venture into Tyria intermittently. When I did play, I noticed changes, but I didn’t spend much time examining them. So recently I returned to explore the wealth of new material. And I walked away with the question: Is too much of a good thing still too much?

Within the first few hours of gameplay in the original release, I had a firm grasp on GW2’s gameplay, even though I had never really spent much time in MMOs before. This iteration of GW2 is more of the same: more feature-rich, more complex…and more complicated.

When I returned, I found multiple new forms of currency, a whole new map zone, the new Fractal dungeons in which your character “levels up” to more difficult iterations, and “Ascended” items that took multiple, time-consuming tasks to build.

There are also Heralds, who point the way to current events (they go hand-in-hand with GW2′s new “Living Story”), and Laurel vendors, who provide an alternate means to buy Ascended items for those who don’t want to explore Fractals. For PvP fans, there’s a new arena that finally breaks away from the “capture point” model of the previous four (if not very far). And thankfully, there are many minor tweaks and improvements, including the ability to bank special event collectibles.

I spoke on the telephone with Isaiah Cartwright, GW2’s lead designer, about the dungeons and currencies, and most recently, the addition of the guild system.

Tell me about the new additions to GW2.

We’ve been reworking on a lot of rewards and giving people lots of goals and achievements to accomplish. We’ve redone the daily system. We added currencies. And we made a new dungeon type called the Fractals of the Mist.

Probably been the biggest change that you’d see when coming back: We’ve been improving the rewards and balance of people’s time versus the things they get out of it.

Why have there been so many additions to the game?

As we were looking at the play patterns of players, we noticed they were getting through the last step of progression in our game faster than we wanted them to. That would lead them to run out of things to accomplish. We didn’t want to get into a gear-grind scenario, so what we did was add a new tier rarity called “Ascended items.” We wanted to add a step in there to insure that people had a lot to do.

I’ve noticed you’ve added a lot of currencies.

We have somewhere around ten to fifteen currencies in the game right now. There are two main types, basic currencies and tokens. Basic currencies are gold, karma, the new laurels that we added, glory. They exist with you in your inventory at the bottom [of your UI]. The second type of currency we have are tokens. We use tokens in a number of different places, like the dungeons; they each have their own tokens. They show that you’ve beaten this dungeon.

We try to use currencies to split up the goals of players so that they want to do each of the different game types in different ways in order to earn the things they’d like to earn.

There have also been changes to the daily system. Before, you had to complete a set number of tasks in a day (completed dynamic events, plants gathered, etc). What’s changed?

We give you an option of like eight to ten [goals, such as killing enemies underwater or reviving other players and NPCs], and you get to pick five that you want to accomplish. So if you don’t like doing dungeons, you don’t have to choose it.

It only takes twenty to thirty minutes to accomplish these things, and it gives people a taste of different types of content. We try to kind of mix it up to encourage players to go to different maps and try different things out. We feel our system is the most robust one.

Tell me about the guild system.

We really wanted to make a system to encourage guilds to get together and play together. It can really help make a guild tighter knit and just enjoy the game together. And so we built these guild missions that you can go on, and we made a variety of different tiers and systems for them to go through.

Because the game is very large and there are lots of different types of guilds, we were looking at systems to make sure smaller guilds and larger guilds can kind of compete in the same space. It’s obviously a difficult challenge to do, because when there’s a lot more people in a guild, they have a lot more resources, people to organize themselves and those types of things. So we build a couple of systems in there to help us limit that.

We made all the guild content on weekly rewards, and we find that longer lock-out timers like that really help the smaller guilds catch up, because what the bigger guilds can do really, really quickly, the smaller guilds take a bit longer to do. We know there was an initial influence cost that was very high that a lot of smaller guilds weren’t able to get into it, so we’re looking at ways that we can improve that, make smaller guilds more able to compete on the influence gathering area.

But really, our goal for the system is so guilds don’t ever run out of accomplishments and goals they can work at together in order to overcome. So we’re going to add to the system and we’ll make sure we’ll add things for smaller guilds to really be able to compete in this space. But the goal of this system is to be rewards and goals and accomplishments for guilds of all sizes.

So…do you think GW2 has become too complicated?

It’s a debate we have here all the time, especially when it come to the number of currencies that are around. It really comes down to when you want to reward someone for doing a specific type of gameplay. Because we’ve been adding a lot of reward systems, we’ve seen an increase in the number of currencies out there.

But we’re getting toward the tail end of the number of systems we feel that we can put in the game. We’ll be really working on improving the current systems we have and making them more robust.

I want us to slow down on the number of systems that we’re adding and polish up and clean up the ones that we have added so they’re easier to understand, with better UI for them, those types of things, that’ll be some of the stuff that we’re focused on in the future. One of the major goals of GW was to allow anyone to jump in and play. We have a team dedicated to making sure that it’s easy, and we’re going to continue to improve that process as much as we can.

One of the things we might do is not unlock the ability to get to some of these currencies until you get later on in the game. That way, they’re not overwhelming in the beginning.

My thoughts:

The fact that Cartwright did not know the precise number of currencies in his own game confirms my suspicion that GW2 has become too intricate.

But Cartwright struck the right chord when he says that ArenaNet might not unlock certain areas of the game until the player has progressed, to prevent new players from feeling overwhelmed. I think that would be a terrific move. That, and a more streamlined UI, would go a long way toward maintaining the playability that I loved at launch.

The biggest reason I enjoy GW2 is that there is a flexibility of play. If I don’t feel like fighting in the sprawling world vs. world mode, I can ignore it; if I want to gather plants and craft food, I can do that. Because of this, I’m particularly enamored with the new “daily” system, which lets me pick and choose my accomplishments. There are still enough tasks that are interesting to me that I get to wend my way across the map and have my own fun doing it.

Cartwright assured me that GW2’s new content was as flexible as the original, and I can play it or ignore it as I choose and stick with what I love. If ArenaNet continues to provide that experience, I will continue to enjoy my time in Tyria.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/03/12/has-guild-wars-2-become-too-complicated
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
I don't think it has become too complicated, but there's definitely something wrong with the game. Unfocused, poorer combat than I expected, bland skills, empty PVP, time consuming and zergy WvW. Can't put my finger on it. Hopefully they strike gold with a patch.

The new daily grind 'living story' and downright terrible Lost Shores stuff certainly didn't help. Why launch a new zone devoid of interesting content (other than a mining node) ?
 

inky

Member
I haven't played in about 2 months, guess I should jump in and check out the changes.

Yeah, thinking about the same thing.

I remember being bummed out that I sold my portable crafted-Mystic Forge (forget the name) for like 20gs to get some gems back during the Halloween event, then when I last logged back in it was trading at like 100g+

Prices must be super inflated by now, which explains the creation of that many new currencies the interview is talking about.
 

Arcteryx

Member
In short, yes. They are doing a lot of work on adding content to the game, but they are going about it the wrong way. Instead of coming up with multiple "currencies" (laurels, guild commendations, dungeon tokens, etc) they should just move towards a more universal approach(or at the very least allow for some kind of conversion NPC). On top of this, some currencies are held in the UI and others can be placed in your bank. Cluttered is cluttered.
 

Coxswain

Member
I think that's a fair concern. Not that I think the game is necessarily overly complicated, but ArenaNet has so far exhibited a pretty startling lack of foresight with Guild Wars 2. Systems are put into the game without really being complete or robust, and/or they fail to see what some of the consequences for the game might be if people decide to push the boundaries of a certain system. Then by the time they can really react to it, the whole thing is so far gone that they have to introduce an entirely new system when they have another idea - which often has a variation on the exact same problem, necessitating that the whole cycle repeats.

I'm not exactly invested in the game at this point, though. I was willing to give it a shot after a less-than-stellar first impression because, at the very least, I believed that they had committed themselves to a relative lack of grind, where a maxed out character now would still be maxed out a year from now (as it was in Guild Wars 1). The new (incredibly grindy) tier of equipment was a bit of a spit in the eye. More entertainment for me if it turns into a slow train wreck than there is in it managing to stabilize itself.
 

Durante

Member
I like the game (a lot even), but it is in some ways more complicated than it should be.

The currencies example is a good one -- it has in fact been a common joke for several months now to ask "what currency did they add?" after a patch.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
In short, yes. They are doing a lot of work on adding content to the game, but they are going about it the wrong way. Instead of coming up with multiple "currencies" (laurels, guild commendations, dungeon tokens, etc) they should just move towards a more universal approach(or at the very least allow for some kind of conversion NPC). On top of this, some currencies are held in the UI and others can be placed in your bank. Cluttered is cluttered.

Sound a lot like WoW where you have gold, valor points, justice points, honor points, conquest points, silver coins from dailies, golden coins for random 5.2 stuff or 5.0 raid groups, new mogu coins for 5.2 raid, darkmoon tickets, cooking tokens, not to mention currencies from past expansions.
 

Midou

Member
When they switch to having a proper PVP and some cooler inbetween PVP and WvWvW scale competitive, like guild wars had, with it's balance of builds, then I'd jump back in.

I guess I will just play GW1 instead..
 
I would rather have an overly complex game mechanics than a relatively streamlined shallow one, but that's just me though.

As for the complexity of GW2, I personally hand no problem with it, but streamlining it a bit won't hurt, again not too much just a bit.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
This game was a waste of 50 bucks for me. I bought into the hype and didn't stay interested past level 20. It has been awfully quiet on this game since launch tbh.
 

Levyne

Banned
I haven't played since I hit cap. Game bores me to tears, which is a shame since I was so hyped.

If you're ever bored you could hang out with the GAF guild for an evening or so. Dungeon or fractals or WvW (GAF has 2 commanders I think), world event mobbing, Guild Missions, lots of content for max levels. The benefit of no sub :)
 

Shambles

Member
I could understand if this was an MMO in 1995 but in 2013 when you're merely 10 seconds away from running a search for easy to understand guides on any aspect of the game.

Do you have to do everything in the game? No.
Do you want to try out a bunch of the content? Great, go check it out. If you're not sure about something ask on the chat. If that fails use Google. It's pretty sad when we resort to complaining that we're getting too much free content on our games.
 

FinKL

Member
If you don't keep track of the monthly changes, yes I can agree to this.

The game really lacks any tutorials or instructions on how to go about doing things and discussing progression for your Ascended items.

Though the dailies help, they still don't reinforce core game play. Daily Dodger turns into Daily round up a bunch of low mobs and hope to dodge 3x when they attack as opposed to, see that mob winding/charging up, better get ready to dodge.

I'm hoping the WvW patch brings me back in, since Arma3 has me now.
 
bought played a bit...
the lack of holy trinity system while intriguing (at best) means that you could as well be unlucky and the mob will just focus for two hits and down you go pronto :)
And no dedicate healers means that life could as well go "why no one is popping some regen aoe effect?" random dude answer "why should i? i was not taking any damage" :)
 

Midou

Member
If you're ever bored you could hang out with the GAF guild for an evening or so. Dungeon or fractals or WvW (GAF has 2 commanders I think), world event mobbing, Guild Missions, lots of content for max levels. The benefit of no sub :)

I am kind of tempted to jump back in if I can get into a good community. Is server 'transfer' stuff still free though?
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
There are a lot of currencies, but I've been told it was way worse in Gw1.

I don't really think it's too complicated. It's just what happens when you try to cater to everyone. Unlike most mmos there's a ton of endgame stuff to do of very different varieties.
 

Levyne

Banned
I am kind of tempted to jump back in if I can get into a good community. Is server 'transfer' stuff still free though?

No not free BUT if you are on an NA server you can "Guest" which means you can do everything I listed anyways with the exception of WvW.

If on an EU server, not so lucky :(

Edit: I don't remember GW1 having so many currencies . They had "Platinum" (gold, basically) and Zaishen Coins, and Ectos were basically a player invented currency to get around the trade limit. But I haven't played that in awhile. Oh right, there were like 4 different "Faction" types as well. I guess in an MMO (or kinda-mmo in GW1 case) you just have to expect a handful of em.
 

Durante

Member
Remember when this was hyped as the second coming of MMO games?
Well, it's the only MMO that kept me interested in playing for more than 2 months since Dark Age of Camelot, and it also seems to have better customer retention and sales than anything else post-WoW. It also, for better or worse, really did mix up the traditional MMO mechanics in several significant ways. So, despite the issues, it pretty much is the second coming of MMOs.
 

Coxswain

Member
There are a lot of currencies, but I've been told it was way worse in Gw1.

I don't know who told you that, but they're either confused or crazy. Guild Wars 1 had one currency (the standard gold/platinum). The only problem it had was that you could only hold a relatively small amount of it, so big purchases were conducted using a standard item that was worth a certain amount of platinum, but the core currency was still just platinum.
 

mikeGFG

Banned
I think the systems they have in place are designed in such a way to keep their concurrency numbers up, (filling up more XP bars, collecting rare materials for crafting special equipment, and completing daily achievements) and the hardcore players will no doubt, eat that up.

The core game itself is VERY simple to convey and organic in it's design.
 

Westlo

Member
It's only going to get more complicated from now on, it happens.

Well, it's the only MMO that kept me interested in playing for more than 2 months since Dark Age of Camelot, and it also seems to have better customer retention and sales than anything else post-WoW. It also, for better or worse, really did mix up the traditional MMO mechanics in several significant ways. So, despite the issues, it pretty much is the second coming of MMOs.

tumblr_lkjtmfMF4r1qa8b4u.gif
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
I don't know who told you that, but they're either confused or crazy. Guild Wars 1 had one currency (the standard gold/platinum). The only problem it had was that you could only hold a relatively small amount of it, so big purchases were conducted using a standard item that was worth a certain amount of platinum, but the core currency was still just platinum.

Well the core currency in GW2 is still gold, but you do collect things that are traded in for other things. I never got too deep into GW1, but my friends who've been playing that since launch say there's tons of those collectable currencies. *shrugs*
 

Midou

Member
Well, it's the only MMO that kept me interested in playing for more than 2 months since Dark Age of Camelot, and it also seems to have better customer retention and sales than anything else post-WoW. It also, for better or worse, really did mix up the traditional MMO mechanics in several significant ways. So, despite the issues, it pretty much is the second coming of MMOs.

Yeah, I put a good 250 or so hours into it in about 2 months. The average MMO makes me quit within a week from massive boredom. It certainly felt like it was on the right track, but ultimately certain design choices undermined other parts of the game.

Each area is so large, detailed both artistically and technically, but you can get 100% in them then never come back. Feels like they had some missed opportunities. Getting 100% in areas is also crazy tedious after your first character, getting up to that hard vista isn't rewarding, as much as tedious, the 2nd time around. Though if you don't do them, you either run around looking for dynamic events or grinding the old fashion way.

Would also be cool if WvWvW let you use a PVP character or something, it's more developed than PVP but needing to get new characters to 80 to try new builds is kind of annoying.
 

docbon

Member
Got two characters to max level before I lost interest and quit. Came back recently, and found myself enjoying a lot of the changes. Since the loot was buffed for most of the meta event chains, you actually see people doing events across all the zones. Currency shit is no biggie for me.

I'm really hoping they can pull off an interesting progression system in the wubwub patch on the 26th.
 

Dysun

Member
I was bored within a week, thankfully my account was hacked and NCsoft gave me a full refund during this ordeal. I have my account back and I didnt even end up paying for the game, not sure how that worked out but after playing the game I'm glad it did
 

Cipherr

Member
Remember when this was hyped as the second coming of MMO games?

Yes I most definitely do. Put a significant amount of play time into the game during that beta or whatever they had, and I figured out reaaaaaaal quick that it wasn't what it was hyped to be.

God awful combat, and the PvP was boring. Had some neat PvE ideas, but that just wasn't enough to carry it.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Really didn't like this game. The combat felt like shit to me, and there was no sense of progression. It became rather obvious that they only even implemented levels in the PvE content to give players a treadmill. Very pretty game with great music, but just boring as hell to play for me. Someday, someone will make a good MMORPG again... I hope.
 

DJIzana

Member
I'm waiting to see how FFXIV ARR pans out or until they add the Cantha region before I start playing again. I guess I have a long wait before either happen. :p
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
This game was a waste of 50 bucks for me. I bought into the hype and didn't stay interested past level 20. It has been awfully quiet on this game since launch tbh.

Pretty much the same here, was so excited to play it on release and lasted like 2 weeks. Everyone that I played with did the same, some got to the level cap but I don't know a single person who still plays.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'm a casual MMORPG player and I'm not confused by anything in GW2. I wouldn't say it's too complicated.

It is however unfocused; that I can see even at my level of comprehension. They did shotgun add-ons and additions to game system. Of course, it's also been live for less than a year; MMOs go through refinement and overhaul like nothing else out there.

On the other hand GW2 must be doing something right, because I'm still playing it every day and having fun. I've got an 80 character and have reserved names for several more classes to play and level next. IMO GW2 was grossly overhyped - and not entirely by ArenaNet. A lot of players seemed to have gotten the idea it would be as different from every other MMO as an MMO is different from playing Gran Turismo.

To me it still inherently does a lot of things better than most any other MMO I've tried and is easy to come back to and keep playing. I'm more than willing to give it a chance and see how it evolves.
 

Giard

Member
I don't think the game has become too complicated... they just need to give tokens their own inventory space, in the collectibles tab of the bank for example.
 

DJIzana

Member
I think the reason I also don't play... is the skills of every character look so bland. This is why I love a lot of Eastern developed MMO's. Dat motion capture...
 

jersoc

Member
Really didn't like this game. The combat felt like shit to me, and there was no sense of progression. It became rather obvious that they only even implemented levels in the PvE content to give players a treadmill. Very pretty game with great music, but just boring as hell to play for me. Someday, someone will make a good MMORPG again... I hope.

actually you might be right on the levels. iirc this was originally slated to not have leveling. was really disappointed when they put that in. leveling is a dated concept. skill base or go home
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Trying to please to cater for all, instead of just providing for the core. No one is happy.

I dunno, I'm pretty happy. And I believe the game is doing very well player numbers wise.

I don't think the game has become too complicated... they just need to give tokens their own inventory space, in the collectibles tab of the bank for example.

Yeah, they reaaaaallly need to do this before they add anymore currencies.
 

Einbroch

Banned
Really? How complicated the game is has absolutely nothing to do with why a lot of people don't like it. It's all about the awful combat and clusterfuck that are WvW and PVE. If it had better combat or the holy trinity I would be back on this game so fast. The graphics are stunning. The music, sublime. The story? Great for an MMO. The world is so amazing and just begs to be explored.

But all that means jack-all when the gameplay itself is rubbish.
 

frequency

Member
I didn't notice anything particularly complicated. So many currencies is not good, but I don't know if it really complicates play all that much.

But I have to admit, I can't really get into the game. I really want to but... The combat is just not for me I think. Someone told me I'm supposed to strafe. I don't want to strafe in my MMORPG.

I try again every couple weeks but I get frustrated after an hour or two and take another couple weeks off.

It makes me said because I think I like everything about the game except actually playing it.
 
I dunno, I'm pretty happy. And I believe the game is doing very well player numbers wise.

It was a slightly bold statement to make, as I have no idea who is and isn't happy. Just seems to attempt too much, without really nailing one aspect perfectly to me. sPVP and WvW is horrible, and Story Mode is bland. All these currencies are just crazy, and seem to have appeared too quickly.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
It was a slightly bold statement to make, as I have no idea who is and isn't happy. Just seems to attempt too much, without really nailing one aspect perfectly to me. sPVP and WvW is horrible, and Story Mode is bland. All these currencies are just crazy, and seem to have appeared too quickly.

Yeah sPVP needs more fleshing out. Wvw is great! I've spent entire days in WvW fighting for my server. The only thing holding it back are technical reasons which should be fixed this month. There's very few things as satisfying in all of gaming than capping Stonemist castle after hours of sieging and raiding. Definitely agree about the currencies, it's one of the things I bitch about the most. They take up too much bank space which comes at a premium, literally.
 

Lunar15

Member
All I can say is, if you stopped playing BEFORE the February patch, I think you owe it to yourself to check it out now. Biggest change is that now ALL major events guarantee a rare or above in every chest, so now there's far more incentive to explore and find major events, and there's more thank likely going to be someone there to help you.

Also, I don't find the currency system confusing, but streamlining it wouldn't hurt. I think it's only confusing if you're super focused on min-maxing in order to get the absolute best gear possible, in which case you need to know what materials give you what.

But if you've played ANY game with a crafting mechanic, the currencies are no different than gathering different materials from different activities and using them in different ratios to get a specific item. And in many cases, most of the currencies are just different ways to get a lot of the same things, so that you can pick and choose how you want to something on your own terms.

Ultimately, the game is changing, albeit slowly. I they have made a lot of great moves since launch, and I've been increasingly blown away at how much they're listening to user feedback. In fact, most of the complication comes from them just giving in to player demands. Usually they'll add something the users want, and then refine it over time. WvW can be zergy, yes, but I've been playing in a small group of five or six people and just wreaking havoc on an enemy borderland and enjoying every second of it. But WvW is going to change. How? I don't fully know. But I know that the largest issues people have are definitely getting addressed, and I think that in a year's time, this is going to be an entirely different and better game. If that's not your cup of tea, hold off and wait. I've enjoyed just seeing each update, because this is by far the most well supported post-launch game ever.
 
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