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Western Mythology/Fantasy Creatures vs Eastern Mythology/Fantasy Creatures

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Proelite

Proelite

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Vampires
Dragons
Hydras
Centaurs
Elves
Dwarve
etc

vs

Oni
Eastern Dragons
Kupas
Tengus
Phoenix
Onis
Yokais
etc

Rules:
1. For a fair debate, God, Jesus, Zeus, deities, and other high level Omni-potent beings are not allowed.
2. One of each creature
3. Each side gets an unlimited stream of identical humans to consume, use, sacrifice, convert, etc.

Clarifcation: West is Greco-Roman, and East is Sino/Japan-centric

Middle Eastern, Egyptian, African, Native American have to wait for round 2.

Reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_creatures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan
 
Western Dragons were fire breathing, winged war machines who were impenetrable to the weaponry of the time and occasionally demonspawn.

What about American Mythological Creatures, though? Like, monsters from the tales of Native Americans both North and South?
 
Western mythology is casual as fuck.

I don't know nearly enough about Asian mythology to say which would beat the other in a fight, or which is cooler than the other.
 
This seems kind of arbitrary, there are a lot of parallels between the two. Indian mythology has vetalas, which are basically the same thing as vampires, and the Yamata no Orochi parallels the Hydra, etc. Also what would Egyptian mythology be classified as? Or as someone mentioned the mythological systems of the peoples' indigenous to the American continent?

MrHicks said:
vampires & werewolves > all of asia
in "coolness" factor atleast
Click to expand...

I actually think vetalas are cooler than vampires, they're just not really a part of our culture.
 
umop_3pisdn said:
This seems kind of arbitrary, there are a lot of parallels between the two. Indian mythology has vetalas, which are basically the same thing as vampires, and the Yamata no Orochi parallels the Hydra, etc. Also what would Egyptian mythology be classified as? Or as someone mentioned the mythological systems of the peoples' indigenous to the American continent?



I actually think vetalas are cooler than vampires, they're just not really a part of our culture.
Click to expand...

they look like fugly monstrosities
 
Third faction: one of every race from the Magic: the Gathering universe. For the purposes of this discussion one town of Kithkin counts as a single one since the thoughtweft is kinda the whole point.
 
umop_3pisdn said:
Also what would Egyptian mythology be classified as?
Click to expand...

I propose that a criterion for inclusion is that if it was part of the former Roman empire, it's Western. The rest of Europe/North America also gets included, while East begins at Persia and ends at the far reaches of Russia/Japan/Australia/Pacific Islands.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I propose that a criterion for inclusion is that if it was part of the former Roman empire, it's Western. The rest of Europe/North America also gets included, while East begins at Persia and ends at the far reaches of Russia/Japan/Australia/Pacific Islands.
Click to expand...

I guess, it just seems kind of arbitrary considering the time discrepancy.
 
If we can include the occult, western wins hands down. Cthulu OP.

Also, everyone knows that Norse mythology is best mythology
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I propose that a criterion for inclusion is that if it was part of the former Roman empire, it's Western. The rest of Europe/North America also gets included, while East begins at Persia and ends at the far reaches of Russia/Japan/Australia/Pacific Islands.
Click to expand...

And what about Africa?
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I propose that a criterion for inclusion is that if it was part of the former Roman empire, it's Western. The rest of Europe/North America also gets included, while East begins at Persia and ends at the far reaches of Russia/Japan/Australia/Pacific Islands.
Click to expand...

West is correct, East is only Sino/Japan centric.
 
I think Japan overwhelmes with the sheer number of spirits for some mundane thing or another. I mean, there's a spirit that exclusively possesses bathrobes, according to the wiki op linked.
 
Proelite said:
Vampires
Dragons
Hydras
Centaurs
Elves
Dwarve
etc

vs

Oni
Eastern Dragons
Kupas
Tengus
Phoenix
Onis
Yokais
etc

Rules:
1. For a fair debate, God, Jesus, Zeus, deities, and other high level Omni-potent beings are not allowed.
2. One of each creature
3. Each side gets an unlimited stream of identical humans to consume, use, sacrifice, convert, etc.

Reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_creatures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan
Click to expand...

I.. don't know what to start with here.

Let's start with the fact that the Phoenix is of Greek/Egyptian/Persian origin, not East Asian in origin. There are rough equivalents in the East, but they are significantly different in detail. Second, polytheistic deities such as Zeus hardly qualify as omnipotent in typical depiction.

Next, defining East versus West is problematic when it comes to, well, anything. In religion in particular, most western polytheistic myths are strongly related to Hindu mythology. If you look at most Indo-european mythologies, there are a lot of common similarities and trends: sky gods, alternate pantheons, giants, etc. There are even discernible similarities in naming, such as the similarity between the Hindu Dyaus Pita and Greek Zeus Pater. There are too many mythologies that lie on the borders between East and West to make any clear points of demarcation.

With that established, I have absolutely no idea what kinds of arguments to make on this topic. For one thing, the West side has the Devil. He certainly isn't omnipotent, and he is definitely a big part of Christian mythology. On the other hand, the East has the Monkey King, and various other crazy figures. And somewhere on the sidelines Coyote and Raven are trying to figure out how to mess with everyone.
 
Burt said:
If we can include the occult, western wins hands down. Cthulu OP.

Also, everyone knows that Norse mythology is best mythology
Click to expand...

Does Cthulu even count as Occult? Last I checked, it was just modern pop-fantasy. I doubt anyone ever actually believed in its existence.

If you really wanted to count the occult, that is more along the lines of the Ars Goetia, and other descriptions of the 72 demons commanded by King Solomon. Which is wild and crazy, but nothing at all like the Lovecraftian mythos.
 
SkyOdin said:
Let's start with the fact that the Phoenix is of Greek/Egyptian/Persian origin, not East Asian in origin. There are rough equivalents in the East, but they are significantly different in detail.
Click to expand...

It entirely depends on what culture you are viewing through. The phoenix, or fenghuang, is also of Eastern origin (and arguably far older than the stereotypical Western phoenix) though in an entirely different detail - let alone which period you are seeing through i.e. thousands of years ago vs modern times. There's an old saying of sorts about having twins of opposite sex with the male being a dragon, the female being a phoenix. I'm probably not making any sense whatsoever, but the idolatry of the phoenix is just as powerful as the dragon in Chinese culture.

ThoseDeafMutes said:
Never heard of it. Where is that?

(West)

But apparently OP has now revealed he didn't actually want to divide the whole world into only two groups necessarily.
Click to expand...

Well if we wanted to be realistic I can begin naming off Aboriginal spirits and their powers for the Eastern side.. though I imagine something as ethereal as the rainbow serpent is beyond interpretation in a versus war.
 
Gygaxthology wins
tumblr_m72drctUVg1qff9quo1_1280.jpg
 
Guevara said:
Seriously; it's not even close.
Click to expand...

It's not even close because no one has 100% knowledge of mythology of the various cultures that intertwine everything. Most people on here have no idea about Chinese history, let alone the various mythological beings throughout its culture. And where do we cut the line? Is Persia included in the West or the East? I know the OP asks to ignore the Middle East, but if Persia is ignored then we can forget Turkey and (arguably) Greece too.

The topic is a great one because my mind runs through the circus at ease, but ask the average GAF forum dweller what constitutes as Eastern mythology and they'll name nothing more than infamous Japanese beings of lore.
 
speedpop said:
It's not even close because no one has 100% knowledge of mythology of the various cultures that intertwine everything. Most people on here have no idea about Chinese history, let alone the various mythological beings throughout its culture. And where do we cut the line? Is Persia included in the West or the East? I know the OP asks to ignore the Middle East, but if Persia is ignored then we can forget Turkey and (arguably) Greece too.

The topic is a great one because my mind runs through the circus at ease, but ask the average GAF forum dweller what constitutes as Eastern mythology and they'll name nothing more than infamous Japanese beings of lore.
Click to expand...

I know lots of Asian mythical creatures such as King Ghidorah & Gamera.
 
speedpop said:
IThe topic is a great one because my mind runs through the circus at ease, but ask the average GAF forum dweller what constitutes as Eastern mythology and they'll name nothing more than infamous Japanese beings of lore.
Click to expand...

Eastern mythology is such a vast that it's impossible to lump them all together. Everything from India to Malaysia to Thailand to China to Japan have their own individual and distinct mythological beings.
 
maomaoIYP said:
Eastern mythology is such a vast that it's impossible to lump them all together. Everything from India to Malaysia to Thailand to China to Japan have their own individual and distinct mythological beings.
Click to expand...

op is specifically asking for Japanese mythical creatures vs Western ones though.
 
i only really know western mythologies, but i've always been fascinated by how the catholic church classifies and identifies its mythical creatures, demons, and angels. are there not whole books detailing such things? probably why i, and many others, thought bayonetta's mythos was so interesting and cleverly handled.
 
Go play Persona 3 & 4 and get back to us. Also Age of Mythology too (Nidhogg especially).

Personally, I prefer European mythology. The pantheon of both Greek and Norse gods.

The Egyptian gods are interesting as well.
 
european history/mythology>>>east asian history/mythology

by a fucking landslide.

rome, roman mythology
ancient greece, greek mytholgy
vikings, north mythology
knights, christian mytholgy


No place on earth has such a cool history as europe do. Its conflict and war upon war upon war.
 
How much is really known about eastern mythology in the west, really? Going off a lead - Final Fantasy Type 0, four influential Chinese mythical beasts are (in Japanese) Suzaku, Byakko, Souryuu, and Genbu. A trip to Wikipedia and ...

During the Han Dynasty, people believed the tiger to be the king of all beasts. According to legend the tiger's tail would turn into white when it reached the age of 500 years. In this way, the white tiger became a kind of mythological creature. It was said that the white tiger would only appear when the emperor ruled with absolute virtue, or if there was peace throughout the world. Because the color white of the Chinese five elements also represents the west, the white tiger thus became a mythological guardian of the west.

In the novel Shuo Tang Yanyi (Tales of Tang Dynasty), the reincarnation of White Tiger's Star is said to be Li Shimin's general Luo Cheng (羅成) and the reincarnation of Azure Dragon's Star is said to be the rebellious general Shan Xiongxin (單雄信). They two are sworn brothers of Qin Shubao (秦叔寶), Cheng Zhijie (程知節) and Yuchi Jingde (尉遲敬德). Their souls after death are said to possess the body of the new heroes of Tang Dynasty and Liao Dynasty, Xue Rengui (薛仁貴) and He Suwen (郃苏文).

In some legends of the Tang Dynasty's general Xue Rengui, he is said to be the reincarnation of the White Tiger's Star, and his archenemy, the Liao Dynasty's prince He Suwen is the reincarnation of the Azure Dragon's Star.
Click to expand...

Who has even heard of Byakko? As for Souryuu, ...

In Japan, the Azure Dragon is one of the four guardian spirits of cities and is said to protect the city of Kyoto on the east. The west is protected by the White Tiger, the north is protected by the Black Tortoise, the south is protected by the Vermilion Bird, and the center is protected by the Yellow Dragon. In Kyoto there are temples dedicated to each of these guardian spirits. The Azure Dragon is represented in the Kiyomizu Temple in eastern Kyoto. Before the entrance of the temple there is a statue of the dragon which is said to drink from the waterfall within the temple complex at nighttime. Therefore each year a ceremony is held to worship the dragon of the east. In 1983, the Kitora Tomb was found in the village of Asuka. All four guardians were painted on the walls (in the corresponding directions) and a system of the constellations was painted on the ceiling. This is one of the few ancient records of the four guardians.

In Korea, the murals of the Goguryeo Tombs found at Uhyon-ni in South Pyongan province features the Azure Dragon and the other mythological creatures of the four symbols.
Click to expand...

It seems like there exists pretty rich mythology in the east that most of us are completely oblivious to.
 
Shadow of the BEAST said:
european history/mythology>>>east asian history/mythology

by a fucking landslide.

rome, roman mythology
ancient greece, greek mytholgy
vikings, north mythology
knights, christian mytholgy


No place on earth has such a cool history as europe do. Its conflict and war upon war upon war.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain India has the war/conflict filled mythology covered.
 
Shadow of the BEAST said:
european history/mythology>>>east asian history/mythology

by a fucking landslide.

rome, roman mythology
ancient greece, greek mytholgy
vikings, north mythology
knights, christian mytholgy


No place on earth has such a cool history as europe do. Its conflict and war upon war upon war.
Click to expand...
When you say east you are only thinking about the Sino mythology, east also includes Indian and Persian mythologies and I think they've got a lot of things covered and covered pretty good.
 
i think its becoming pretty clear that "East vs. West" is just too vague and far reaching; you'll have to go for individual countries.

From the OP it seems he really wanted to have Greece vs. Japan, so perhaps start with that
 
Piecake said:
wtf is that? it looks like a tentacle penis on a cart
Click to expand...
As said, Mara. More specifically Megami Tensei's take on this Mara.
sohois said:
i think its becoming pretty clear that "East vs. West" is just too vague and far reaching; you'll have to go for individual countries.

From the OP it seems he really wanted to have Greece vs. Japan, so perhaps start with that
Click to expand...
Seems more Europe versus East Asia to me actually. But where does Russia fit?

... Probably just Europe.
 
Eusis said:
As said, Mara. More specifically Megami Tensei's take on this Mara.

Seems more Europe versus East Asia to me actually. But where does Russia fit?

... Probably just Europe.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Europe already encompasses Greece, Roman, Norse, Christianity, Celtic, Scandinavian and heck, probably Tolkien.
 
I heard in Scandinavia they think elves still live in the mountains, kinda like how Americans think ghosts exist.

Elves > ghosts
 
I think it's funny that some people are saying "west by a landslide" when they probably barely know anything about eastern mythology beyond dragons and Amaterasu?
 
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