crazy monkey
Banned
give example of games that do what zelda does better.
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How can people not like 'Nintendo Games'?
- Thread starter Jamix012
- Start date
give example of games that do what zelda does better.
If you don't enjoy "Nintendo games," you probably don't enjoy "video games" nearly as much as you think you do. I think the company condescending, anti-consumer shitheads and a lot of their recent output is overrated (Kid Icarus: Uprising and the New Super Mario Bros series are pap), but if you can't find something to like amongst the likes of Ocarina of Time, Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 64, Majora's Mask, Tetris DS, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Super Mario World, the Galaxy games, WarioWare, etc, etc, then you have extremely narrow, sad taste.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Me personally, I think Nintendo makes good games but I'm Mario'd and Zelda'd out and none of their other franchises (Smash Bros, Pikmin, Pokemon, etc) really appeal to me. Don't get me wrong they are fine games but they don't make me sit up and take notice when a new one is announced. I liked the Metroid Prime games but it seems like that franchise is dead again. They have become far too reliant on releasing the same game in different packaging. When you play games for 30 years and you have limited time to play because of the demands of life you tend to value new experiences more. That's what I'm looking for anyway.
DeviousAngel
Member
And I disagree. None of the games you hint at captured me in the way Zelda does. Zelda has a certain... je ne sais quoi. Some call it nostalgia and maybe that's a fair answer. However, I can't help but think it is due, at least in part, to the way the folks at Nintendo design their games. I'm sorry I can't quite put my finger on it, but the Zelda world feels very alive to me, and it has nothing to do with bigger worlds, more voice acting, or a deep storyline.
timetokill
Banned
On the other hand, if I'm interested in a Nintendo title, I'm more willing to just pay up and get the game sooner rather than waiting for a price drop, since I know their games tend to not drop in price.
Two games I want out at the same time, one of them Nintendo? Buy the Nintendo game first, then when you're done with it, the other one will have dropped in price.
I never said they were void of all criticism. On the contrary, I think it's almost unanimously agreed that they made big mistakes with the launch of the Wii U. Not only that but not liking certain games in Nintendo's catalogue is absolutely fine, in fact I'd probably judge more if someone liked every Nintendo game ever released. I just find it strange that so many people can say that they don't like "Nintendo games" when I find it hard to find a common link between all such games other than the Nintendo logo on the cover. There have been some interesting points put forward but even those who have made those points concede that dismissing the entire Nintendo library does come off as some kind of "mental block."
that's really subjective. i personally thought okami nailed the zelda design.
maybe they don't like the games nintendo sells. Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, but i don't see how this is a ridiculous notion.
Honestly there's a lot of nintendo games i've enjoyed over the years, but i really don't care all that much for zelda games (i've played them since i was a kid playing zelda on the nes, and the 1st zelda game i managed to even play all the way through was spirit tracks, and that was over 3 years). The Metroid Prime series I find okay but not that great. People have different tastes in videogames
Honestly there's a lot of nintendo games i've enjoyed over the years, but i really don't care all that much for zelda games (i've played them since i was a kid playing zelda on the nes, and the 1st zelda game i managed to even play all the way through was spirit tracks, and that was over 3 years). The Metroid Prime series I find okay but not that great. People have different tastes in videogames
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
When people say they don't like Nintendo games, they really mean Miyamoto's games. Miyamoto's games have a certain "style" to them. Some people love it, some people hate it. If I asked most people on GAF to name Nintendo games I guarantee you that Xenoblade, Eternal darkness(which miyamoto is involved with but most people don't know that) and geist(see eternal darkness) would never name come up. Personally the only Nintendo franchise I truly like is Zelda (and Pokémon before it went down the drain). I guess Nintendo games (or Nintendo in general) as a whole is too "kiddy"(which doesn't really mean anything because I never liked Mario when I was a child despite me getting a n64/Mario 64 for Christmas when I was 5).
toddhunter
Member
It certainly isn't the recent zelda games.
It was pretty clear if you followed the conversation.
THIS is something that *I* can't get my head around. The same old games controlled the same old way.
I personally hope the next 3D Mario games uses that unique controller in a way that blows my mind that I never thought about before.
I thought about making a thread asking why people prefer the same console over and over and over again instead of entirely new ways of playing. I still might, because I'm frankly concerned with the stagnation I see that's embraced by so many people in the industry, but it's not quite fully fleshed out in my mind yet. But I mean....PS2, GameCube, Xbox 360, PS3......they're all the same thing to me with different levels of "pretty."
Just goes to show how far removed my tastes are from the gaming industry as a whole, and it sucks. I'm worried in a few years there wont' be anything left that I want to play other than games that try to be different and control different. Probably why I gravitate toward Nintendo more than any other company.
crazy monkey
Banned
I would agree skyward swrod sucked because it tried to be not zelda. Twilight princess though was amazing. So much to explore so many places to go. Beautiful.
Remove the awesome art and you get an epic adventure, but a Zelda-like game with poor dungeons. Its as close as anyone has ever been though and I love Okami for it.
MvmntInGrn
Member
And yet many GAFers who played OOT (on 3DS) for the first time last year were blown away with it. Your post boils down to a "more is better" argument.
Yay! more NPCs. Shame they use maybe 20 templates.
Whoo! Fully voiced. Shame the quality of the VA is so uneven and frequently glaring.
Awesome deep combat! Except Zelda combat is typically short rhythmic bouts or puzzle-geared bosses/heavy hitters.
In my opinion 3D Zelda games still stand as some of the most finely detailed games that can be called "open world". Aside from maybe Metroid Prime 1+2 I can't think of other "open world" (in 3D at least) games that feel so deliberate and hand-crafted. Maybe Bioshock 1. There are some good, more linear games, that might stand up as well.
I grew up with nintendo so it hurts my heart to see them in their modern state. If they could give me a console with a SNES era library then I would be back on board 100% but until then I'll stick with the platform with the most choices, that being my PC.
I do recognize that there has been some quality titles post-snes but to me they have come too few and far between.
Another problem for me is that they tend to play it too safe with their franchises. The most radical departure for them was the Metroid Prime series shift from side scrolling action platformer to FPS. If they could be that bold with each of their properties I would have much more respect for them.
I do recognize that there has been some quality titles post-snes but to me they have come too few and far between.
Another problem for me is that they tend to play it too safe with their franchises. The most radical departure for them was the Metroid Prime series shift from side scrolling action platformer to FPS. If they could be that bold with each of their properties I would have much more respect for them.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Its subjective but not entirely.As good as Okami is (and okami-den for that matter,) It is not like playing Zelda imo and if it was going for Zelda, it certaintly didnt beat it. I love okami for the game it is. It had flashes of Zelda but still not really. Even a new game like uncharted has been succesfully cloned and somewhat beat with the new Tomb Raider.
It seems more and more people hate everything. As for Nintendo, they have been in my life for over 25 years and I grew tired of the characters. Their games, for me, used to raise the bar for all other games. OOT, Metroid Prime, Link to the Past etc. It's been awhile since I've felt that way about their games. Also, and I know it's always viewed as insulting when discussed on forums, I out grew them. The games DO seem child like to me. There's is nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with those who enjoy those games. I just can't get into them the same way I can get into a Bioshock Infinite or Skyrim.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Which ones?
Yo Derrick your FACE doesn't belong in the current industry
I will say it really perplexes me that you're all down on Zelda. There is plenty of exploration in these games that can be plenty engaging, the lack of voice acting and engaging story is a real who-gives-a-shit (because almost all games have shit stories and I at least would like the opportunity to not also be assaulted by shit voice acting).
The key to Zelda games is dungeon design and puzzle design and boss design, and the level design in the top tier Zelda games remains some of the most clear masterpieces of game design ever put to programming code. It seems to me not liking Zelda titles would go against the philosophy I typically hear you preach about games, but maybe I'm misinterpreting your point.
Seriously Zelda games are amazing, although the two DS ones and Skyward Sword were extremely disappointing.
I just never really thought the series was all that great. The in dungeon stuff was just simple puzzles and then doing a boss pattern 3 times, usually doing something with the new tool you picked up somewhere in the dungeon.
Out of dungeon content and exploration feels extremely light and the worlds always feel pretty empty and has a general lack of content. In the past this wasn't a huge problem necessarily but now we're getting more and more open world games that offer so much more.
The one zelda game that really feels like it tried to do some things differently was majora's mask with its time management and missable and meaningful side content. Not to mention the darker themes (compared to other nintendo stuff anyway) it had.
Uh I think that says more about how the rest of the industry thinks Zelda isn't worth making then just saying "man we can't top it, might as well not even try." I can't even really think of any games that try to directly copy Zelda. My post wasn't comparing Zelda to games like it, like one would compare RPGs to each other or FPS, it was more like games that share elements with it. I think most open world games do a better job with their world and detailing it than Zelda does, and a game like Arkham City handles gadgets and combat better.
especially the part where there's a really long opening, unskippable text, and boring level design. or maybe that's skyward sword nailing the okami design.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Because I'm tired of them.
I'm tired of the Zelda series chasing after Ocarina of Time and failing. I'm tired of 2D and 3D Mario games because the newer iterations are simply not much better or much different than the older games. Pokemon games haven't evolved in any meaningful way for a looooong time (we'll see how X&Y do). And all the casual motion controlled software isn't interesting.
The games just don't wow anymore in the way Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, and Metroid Prime did. The most they do is emulate.
I'm tired of the Zelda series chasing after Ocarina of Time and failing. I'm tired of 2D and 3D Mario games because the newer iterations are simply not much better or much different than the older games. Pokemon games haven't evolved in any meaningful way for a looooong time (we'll see how X&Y do). And all the casual motion controlled software isn't interesting.
The games just don't wow anymore in the way Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, and Metroid Prime did. The most they do is emulate.
Fox Mulder
Member
I grew up with Nintendo, so I'll always love them. There's kids coming into their games every day, which is great too. There's also people that have different tastes, like I know people that only play Madden or CoD. They're grown adults that call Mario games gay.
I have been playing Nintendo consoles since the NES and I can say that I think I am finally burned out on 2D Mario (or maybe it was just NSMB 2, which I liked). I don't think I can play another game in that series, which is kinda horrifying--as I have lost that part of me that has fun with Mario games. Nintendo has enough franchises that I still like to buy their systems and I would never say that they don't make good/fun games because I have outgrown one type. Now to play Luigi's Mansion 2 for the first time. 
Jawmuncher
Member
I will never not play a game because its kiddy.
Just wanted that to be known.
Anyway for my personal reasons about nintendo games its because for me most are goal oriented. Something like Mario is more about the levels and gameplay with a thin story (save the princess) to hold it all together.
There's nothing wrong with that but for me that's not what I really look for in games.
Also I've noticed the intended market for Nintendo games seems to affect this style in their games. For example Fire Emblem and Xenoblade are both great games that offer me both.
Yeah this might not sit well with some but its how I feel. It's the reason you'll never see me going ill buy a Nintendo console just for Mario but I would for fire emblem.
Just wanted that to be known.
Anyway for my personal reasons about nintendo games its because for me most are goal oriented. Something like Mario is more about the levels and gameplay with a thin story (save the princess) to hold it all together.
There's nothing wrong with that but for me that's not what I really look for in games.
Also I've noticed the intended market for Nintendo games seems to affect this style in their games. For example Fire Emblem and Xenoblade are both great games that offer me both.
Yeah this might not sit well with some but its how I feel. It's the reason you'll never see me going ill buy a Nintendo console just for Mario but I would for fire emblem.
Well you can also say that since OOT was made no Zelda has managed to evolve beyond it. As good as they may be, none have actually tried to evolve what Zelda is. Ocarina as it is was just A Link to the Past in 3D, pretty much. Which in itself was a huge evolution for the series. But since then all we've had is variations.
Majora's Mask: What if Ocarina of Time had a good story?
Wind Waker: What if Ocarina of Time was set in an ocean with an amazing artstyle?
Twilight Princess: What if we made Ocarina of Time again, and you can transform into a wolf?
Skyward Sword: What if we have Ocarina of Time in the sky with motion controls?
I'd also consider the first Soul Reaver title to be a pretty good Zelda-like. I'd also go as far to say that the first Darksiders is also up there.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yes but you say,
Why would a genre that exists in its own realm not belong in a saturated industry? Its the special thing Zelda has going for it since it was created.
freezamite
Banned
For one part, Nintendo doesn't cover all the genres of videogaming so it's possible that there exist people who simply doesn't like Nintendo as a whole because of their tastes.
Then, we also have a great amount of casual players. They priorize things like "the plot" or "the blood" over what defines gamming (which is, having a polished gameplay), and Nintendo never delivers on that audience.
For example, how would Nintendo satisfy someone who enjoys playing Uncharted? It's the complete opposite of what Nintendo makes! Simplistic to semi-automatic mechanics into totally linear corridors and some bad third person shooting. But at the same time, tons of scripts that makes that experience to feel like something "brutal" or "extreme".
In a mario game, you usually have a level design that allows you to reach an end if you master the basic mechanics, and then gives you a superior reward if you can perform some advanced tricks.
You can't have both things at once. Or every platform or part of the scenario explodes because this is cool and our casual friends enjoy seeing things exploding, or everything stays more or less "fixed" so the player can see every possibility and take the best course of action.
When gaming was a "nerd" thing, when you had to spend part of your weekend payment on the arcades, and you learned to play dying and trying again until you mastered that level or you had spend the money you had reserved for gaming, then it was when Nintendo games where most appreciated.
Now it's the era of mass gaming, and to most players, even a lot of the people who post here with us and shares their opinion to us the playability of a game it's something secondary. It doesn't matter if the game has bugs, bad mechanics, bad level design or bad everything not graphics-related.
They simply search a completely different experience that we gamers don't care too much about, and that's an experience based on scripts, simplicity and of course spectacularity.
The big majority of people who say "we don't like nintendo" belong to that second group of players.
Regards!!!
Then, we also have a great amount of casual players. They priorize things like "the plot" or "the blood" over what defines gamming (which is, having a polished gameplay), and Nintendo never delivers on that audience.
For example, how would Nintendo satisfy someone who enjoys playing Uncharted? It's the complete opposite of what Nintendo makes! Simplistic to semi-automatic mechanics into totally linear corridors and some bad third person shooting. But at the same time, tons of scripts that makes that experience to feel like something "brutal" or "extreme".
In a mario game, you usually have a level design that allows you to reach an end if you master the basic mechanics, and then gives you a superior reward if you can perform some advanced tricks.
You can't have both things at once. Or every platform or part of the scenario explodes because this is cool and our casual friends enjoy seeing things exploding, or everything stays more or less "fixed" so the player can see every possibility and take the best course of action.
When gaming was a "nerd" thing, when you had to spend part of your weekend payment on the arcades, and you learned to play dying and trying again until you mastered that level or you had spend the money you had reserved for gaming, then it was when Nintendo games where most appreciated.
Now it's the era of mass gaming, and to most players, even a lot of the people who post here with us and shares their opinion to us the playability of a game it's something secondary. It doesn't matter if the game has bugs, bad mechanics, bad level design or bad everything not graphics-related.
They simply search a completely different experience that we gamers don't care too much about, and that's an experience based on scripts, simplicity and of course spectacularity.
The big majority of people who say "we don't like nintendo" belong to that second group of players.
Regards!!!
You need to spend some time in a thread about 3D Mario games. Some people find the Galaxy far too different to Mario 64 and Sunshine.
OK, so if Smash doesn't belong in the fighting genre, where does it belong?
ComputerMKII
Banned
Nintendo games are unoriginal and not on PC.
Nightstick11
Banned
What the OP is really asking is "How can people not like Nintendo games."
Nintendo makes so many different genres that it's not possible for a real gamer to dislike ALL of their games. Also, most of the genres they dabble in are by far the best in their genres (platformers, 3D action-adventures, strategy rpgs).
Hell, I don't like Mario platformers(2D or 3D), Metroid, and 3D Zeldas don't excite me anymore, but I still recognize they're a top-2 developer in this industry.
Nintendo makes so many different genres that it's not possible for a real gamer to dislike ALL of their games. Also, most of the genres they dabble in are by far the best in their genres (platformers, 3D action-adventures, strategy rpgs).
Hell, I don't like Mario platformers(2D or 3D), Metroid, and 3D Zeldas don't excite me anymore, but I still recognize they're a top-2 developer in this industry.
It's a party game, those tournament guys are all nuts. I hope tripping is back in the new one, just to kill off that weird segment of gamers who play Smash Bros competively.
I'd say a better comparison is Mario Kart and Gran Turismo.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I definitely do. I don't like the older 3D Mario games, however I felt Galaxy and it's sequel were a lot of fun.
the dungeons were definitely weaker, but i think i could give them slack on that because of how much more content the game had to offer than a typical zelda game.
on a sidenote, i thought it was funny that you mentioned removing the artstyle since there is a certain zelda game that i think many people remember more fondly than it truly was, just because of its unique artstyle.
you really didn't think it was like playing zelda? i don't think it beat all zelda games, but i think it had a very similar vibe and probably outshined several zelda games. some areas were weaker, but some were better imo.
opinions and stuff! haha. i still love zelda though guys. not trying to hate.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Nintendo have been working on their brand for many decades, which is why (in some opinions) there is the stigma attached to their software as being family friendly, which is precisely the image that Nintendo wanted to put forward.
You don't see as many people claiming to dislike Sony games because Sony don't cater to a particular demographic to the same extent that Nintendo and Microsoft do, Sony have a generally more broad portfolio to appeal to a wider sensibility (and arguably their software has a weaker selling potential to any one demographic as a result) rather than aiming for one specific market, and doing it exceptionally well. Nintendo just isn't for some people, and it never will be.
SmellyHands
Member
I find myself along similar lines with my tastes nowadays after growing up with Nintendo. I guess my tastes have moved in a different direction. I'd rather play a 2d platformer like Super Meat Boy than another New Super Mario Bros game. I find playing a game like Dark Souls to be much more exciting with a greater sense of adventure, mystery and exploration that I'm not getting from a modern Zelda game anymore. I'm not saying one is better than the other or they are really worth comparing directly, but that these games now fill that need for those kinds experiences that I used to get out of Nintendo. Nowadays, I just don't feel compelled to go to Nintendo for that experience anymore since I just don't find their games to be as exciting as other titles that offer similar experiences.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
It's not that you've changed, TP is a crappy game... And SS drags on like crazy and takes a while to start too.
Wait for WW HD
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Well I guess according to you they should try more evolving I mean its only natrual I give you that but you only listed 5 games. (imo you should have listed lttp in oots place and went from there)
There are many games in this one gen that fail to "evolve" and people dislike zelda because its 5 entries that dont evolve much then thats your problem. Some of which have probably played every single cod, asscreed,uncharted,crysis,etc this gen. Its like how game reviewers can give zelda a low score for sameness yet the annual AAA game is scoring its same high score for 5+years. I still dont get it.
talking about zelda is like talking about community. everyone has their own favorite element, and sometimes it clashes with other people in the fanbase. twilight princess is the best zelda thanks to its superb level design, which is something the wind waker lacks. some people also believe the wind waker has a large and engaging world, but i don't see it.
oneils
Member
You say this like there are literally tons of nintendo franchises. I don't see the same variety that you see.
that's what the series looks like to me.
Nowadays especially, I'm attracted most to interesting characters, interesting worlds and interesting stories in gaming. Nintendo tends not to focus on these things.
I grew up on PC games rather than consoles too, so I've no emotional attachment to the likes of Mario, Link, Samus etc like a lot of gamers do.
I've bought quite a few Nintendo games over the last few years in reaction to great reviews and lots of love from the gaming community, but it's never been enough to see me through to the end. Of the ones I own, I've barely scraped the surface of the Metroid Prime Trilogy and I only got part-way through Mario Galaxy 2 and Donkey Kong Country Returns.
If a day ever comes where Nintendo moves beyond their existing stable of IPs and offers something truly fresh and exciting, I'll be right there with my wallet.
I grew up on PC games rather than consoles too, so I've no emotional attachment to the likes of Mario, Link, Samus etc like a lot of gamers do.
I've bought quite a few Nintendo games over the last few years in reaction to great reviews and lots of love from the gaming community, but it's never been enough to see me through to the end. Of the ones I own, I've barely scraped the surface of the Metroid Prime Trilogy and I only got part-way through Mario Galaxy 2 and Donkey Kong Country Returns.
If a day ever comes where Nintendo moves beyond their existing stable of IPs and offers something truly fresh and exciting, I'll be right there with my wallet.
Funny because not too long ago saying your game is inspired by Zelda was a PR stunt that assured you good rep with the gaming comunity.
Also
2006 Wii / GC The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Wii: 5.82 GC: 1.32 Total: 7.14
2007 DS The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass 4.13
2007 Wii Link's Crossbow Training 4.8
2009 DS The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks 2.6
2011 3DS The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D 2.61
2011 Wii The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword 3.52
You really dont seem to know what Zelda-like is.