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[Foffy]

Next morning:

"WHY DIDN'T THIS SELL 15 MILLION COPIES!? D:"

Haha, it was so disappointing that From only sold about 2 million copies of the first game, and that somehow being a success. Surely they need 15 million or the franchise will die!

I hope Namco's marketing has nothing to do with the actual costs to the game. From doesn't spend high amounts of money on projects, so they're one of the few companies who can actually accomplish meaningful sales figures that don't seem to be aimed at the fucking moon.

and you?

The first preview on the game from EDGE talked about Miyazaki being booted out from his role due to higher ups wanting a different direction, and he's lamented that he hasn't had a big role on the project outside of supervisor. I doubt From would boot the guy who basically created their biggest franchise, so the finger goes to the international publisher. That's the thing I am concerned with; a focus on a "different direction". What did Miyazaki have that was in the way of that, when he was director and producer on the series? I can only think that Namco was not happy with his philosophy on the games; he's said in an interview he designed those games because he was masochistic and wanted to be punished. Those types of games find niches, but never the mainstream. Those types of games are often not part of the AAA echelon, and Namco finally has something else to their name that sells that isn't Tekken or Naruto. No shit they're going to want to fluff it up.

 

[Vice]

Seems like a good idea. The Souls games aren't that hard and since most gamers don't finish their games anyway as long as the first 25% of the game has something cool no one will mind. Worst case scenario the advertising generates buzz, Skyrim fans buy it and either sell it back to Gamestop or leave it on their shelf to collect dust.

 

[Soodanim]

You know what? I'm not worried. I've seen the gameplay footage. FROM know what they are doing. They know why people are in love with Dark Souls. Marketing can do what they want, and FROM deserve every sale they get.

 

[Orayn]

The first preview on the game from EDGE talked about Miyazaki being booted out from his role due to higher ups wanting a different direction, and he's lamented that he hasn't had a big role on the project outside of supervisor. I doubt From would boot the guy who basically created their biggest franchise, so the finger goes to the international publisher.

I wouldn't doubt that. Dark Souls still had issues: An early emergency patch to fix the multiplayer, the infamous Blighttown framerate, complaints about the design of certain areas, the fairly substantial cut/unfinished content that later morphed into Artorias of the Abyss, and the final boss battle winding up as a bit of an anti-climax when it was supposed to be the most epic fight in the entire game. It's obvious that there was some degree of rush and that From bit off more than they could chew in a few places. If the blame fell on Miyazaki, it isn't crazy to think that he could have been nixed for those reasons, especially considering Demon's Souls had some of the same issues.

That's the thing I am concerned with; a focus on a "different direction". What did Miyazaki have that was in the way of that, when he was director and producer on the series? I can only think that Namco was not happy with his philosophy on the games; he's said in an interview he designed those games because he was masochistic and wanted to be punished.

That was at least partially in jest. When Miyazaki has given detailed explanations about the philosophy behind the Souls games, he's always been very clear that the sense of accomplishment you get from overcoming frightening, deadly challenges is the core idea driving the series. It's a particular kind of carrot-and-stick design, not just the stick.

Those types of games find niches, but never the mainstream. Those types of games are often not part of the AAA echelon, and Namco finally has something else to their name that sells that isn't Tekken or Naruto. No shit they're going to want to fluff it up.

Dark Souls did as well as other recent releases that are easily considered mainstream by most. Deus Ex: Human Revolution, for example, shipped 2.18 million copies by November on three platforms, while Dark Souls did 1.5. That's not a huge gulf between mainstream and ultra-niche, that's just two relatively successful games.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Worst case scenario the advertising generates buzz, Skyrim fans buy it and either sell it back to Gamestop or leave it on their shelf to collect dust.

I'm a Skyrim fan who came to Dark Souls a little late. I love them both for very different reasons. Simply because someone likes Skyrim doesn't mean they won't enjoy Dark Souls.

 

[Azereki]

Please change the title of this thread to:
Namco's Dark Souls 2 marketing: "We're going balls-deep!"

 

[Canis lupus]

pls make the next trailer with some dubstep music


wub wub

 

[Prophet Steve]

He even says himself they are different games, with which I hope he means VERY different. I wonder how they will market it, if they market it like you would market Skyrim they are going to get a lot of backlash.

Having marketing for this game is nice though.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

"We're going to go balls-deep and guns-blazing with it, "

"Balls-deep"... lmao oh yeah, oh ok. That's real enlightning.. Sure makes me want to know more.

..Trying so hard.

 

[Foffy]

Dark Souls did as well as other recent releases that are easily considered mainstream by most. Deus Ex: Human Revolution, for example, shipped 2.18 million copies by November on three platforms, while Dark Souls did 1.5. That's not a huge gulf between mainstream and ultra-niche, that's just two relatively successful games.

I can't really retort to everything else you said, but what I was in reference to with what I said was more about about how if a game doesn't sell 5 million, it's not AAA and thus "niche". But that's an issue with the big games: they all need absurd sales because they can't budget a damn thing, that sales as commendable for Deus Ex and Dark Souls actually returning a profit are rare, especially at those sales numbers. It was more of a reference that the super big games need super big sales, which is a recipe for disaster that is hitting so many studios now. In a way, it's great that it has finally come to that. We need more games like the two aforementioned titles, as well as games with reasonable costs to consider.

 

[SamVimes]

I think this is a bad idea, the series already has a considerable following and i don't think they'll reach enough new people to back up such a big ads campaign.

 

[dreamfall]

Such a strange quote- balls deep, eh?

I'm 100 hours in my first playthrough of Dark Souls. I've been continually blown away- mostly by the mechanics of the combat system, the wonderful presentation and the discovery of the narrative. The game's art direction is so stellar- every area feels like it stands on it's own, and there's so much wonderful variety. I could get lost in the Painted World forever!

So if I can beat this, yeah, I'll jump on the Dark Souls II excitement. Here's hoping I'll be there!

 

[Orayn]

I can't really retort to everything else you said, but what I was in reference to with what I said was more about about how if a game doesn't sell 5 million, it's not AAA and thus "niche". But that's an issue with the big games: they all need absurd sales because they can't budget a damn thing, that sales as commendable for Deus Ex and Dark Souls actually returning a profit are rare, especially at those sales numbers. It was more of a reference that the super big games need super big sales, which is a recipe for disaster that is hitting so many studios now. In a way, it's great that it has finally come to that. We need more games like the two aforementioned titles, as well as games with reasonable costs to consider.

I agree that unrealistic expectations are bad, but we're looking at a different situation than Tomb Raider bombing due to the nature of From and Namco's partnership. Earlier in the thread we already concluded that Namco is not paying for a very large portion of Dark Souls II's development budget, so if they set unreasonable goals and fail to meet them, they can only blame themselves. If they want to pout about it and stop publishing Souls games, From Software can find somebody else to publish them outside of Japan in the future.

I'm sure there are plenty of other publishers who would be happy to be responsible for Dark Souls, even if it's only moderately successful by Namco Bandai's standards. Maybe Atlus again. Or XSEED! Deep Silver, perhaps? There's a bit of bad blood between Sega and From over Armored Core 4, but even they could iron things out.

 

[100MS]

So much drama and overreaction. Complain about the lack of marketing push when their favorite games bomb, and complain when their favorite games get a big marketing budget.

 

[sonicmj1]

I can't wait to hear what logical or completely incidental design decisions cause hardcore "fans" to whine to the high heavens that From has dumbed down the game for the Skyrim crowd.

 

[GorillaJu]

Well, this series had a good run.

 

[Orayn]

I can't wait to hear what logical or completely incidental design decisions cause hardcore "fans" to whine to the high heavens that From has dumbed down the game for the Skyrim crowd.

"They took out the resistance stat man! There is no way you can justify that shit. Game might as well be Farmville now."

 

[Prine]

I'm ok with this. I think Dark Souls would be a better game of they balanced it better. It was frustrating to play knowing there was so much ahead but was too infuriating to play.

 

[MormaPope]

So much drama and overreaction. Complain about the lack of marketing push when their favorite games bomb, and complain when their favorite games get a big marketing budget.

Are we making up narratives based on lack of context?

People that like Skyrim would probably buy a Madden RPG because they can trade between other teams for better locker room equipment and bigger Gatorade jugs.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Are we making up narratives based on lack of context?

People that like Skyrim would probably buy a Madden RPG because they can trade between other teams for better locker room equipment and bigger Gatorade jugs.

That's funny, I heard Dark Souls fans put broken glass in their shoes to make walking to the kitchen more of a challenge.

 

[MormaPope]

That's funny, I heard Dark Souls fans put broken glass in their shoes to make walking to the kitchen a challenge.

The true Dark Souls experience is giving yourself a severe concussion in a third world country.

 

[Foffy]

I'm ok with this. I think Dark Souls would be a better game of they balanced it better. It was frustrating to play knowing there was so much ahead but was too infuriating to play.

But it was balanced...none of the things in the game, sans Lost Izalith and the eye blinding bloom, didn't really have any serious issues. What was unbalanced to you?

 

[Risette]

Moe service included.

just bring back the maiden in black <3

 

[Screaming Meat]

The true Dark Souls experience is giving yourself a severe concussion in a third world country.

Now you tell me. TO WALES... AND DON'T SPARE THE HORSES!

 

[Akuun]

Well, Dark Souls' marketing was very different from Demon's Souls marketing too.

Iirc Demon's Souls' difficulty was underplayed at the time because the devs actually kind of snuck it in, while Dark Souls' marketing went with the "Prepare to Die" angle after they realized the difficulty was a selling point in the series.

 

[Parakeetman]

But it was balanced...none of the things in the game, sans Lost Izalith and the eye blinding bloom, didn't really have any serious issues. What was unbalanced to you?

Actually it was less balanced than demons souls. Main reason being is I really do think they had rushed a bit in the production.

Granted it had new features that made the game "easier" to new folks, but that still is not the same as game balance in general.

 

[Ashler]

I'm going to stop worrying about the development of this game and just wait it out.

 

[GlamFM]

No problem with huge marking. Just hope they don´t expect massive AAA sales.

 

[Jobbs]

Did all you worshippers in this thread even finish Dark Souls? It is my favorite game this gen, no contest, but I have to ask because it is not the perfect game, and once you learn a few basics it isn't even that hard.

I've finished the game more than once. I first played through it the month it came out. Collectively between platforms I've easily played 300+ hours of Dark Souls.

I don't think it's very flawed at all, honestly. I didn't have any big beef with the last boss either. The only complaint I really had was that Blight Town had such framerate issues. But somehow, I forgave that, and in my mind it became part of the lore of the area.

Now this bit of my reply is purely academic, but I can't resist. This business about it being "not hard" -- Not hard compared to what?

To me, it was very hard the first time. It's easy to talk about the game now, we know every nook and cranny, we've memorized where and what everything is, and now say the game is only a moderate challenge. Think back to playing blind without spoilers or gamefaqs. It was pretty friggin' tough, especially if what we're comparing it to are mainstream games. There's no comparison, really.

 

[zkylon]

for every good dark souls 2 news there's some weird comment to worry us

I really wonder why they even bother saying these things

just put a lot of money in your marketing campaign

make the game 10% more accesible

make ti awesome, still

save me the aneurysm

 

[Jobbs]

Did all you worshippers in this thread even finish Dark Souls? It is my favorite game this gen, no contest, but I have to ask because it is not the perfect game, and once you learn a few basics it isn't even that hard.

I've finished the game more than once. I first played through it the month it came out. Collectively between platforms I've easily played 300+ hours of Dark Souls.

I don't think it's very flawed at all, honestly. I didn't have any big beef with the last boss either. The only complaint I really had was that Blight Town had such framerate issues. But somehow, I forgave that, and in my mind it became part of the lore of the area.

Now this bit of my reply is purely academic, but I can't resist. This business about it being "not hard" -- Not hard compared to what?

To me, it was very hard the first time. It's easy to talk about the game now, we know every nook and cranny, we've memorized where and what everything is, and now say the game is only moderately challenging. Think back to playing blind without spoilers or gamefaqs. It was pretty friggin' tough, especially if what we're comparing it to are mainstream games. There's no comparison, really. These days, most mainstream games almost won't even allow you to fail. Some literally won't allow it. Dark Souls is a game that doesn't care if you win or not.

What casual gamer could put up with even one minute of Tomb of Giants? Or the cartwheel skeletons? Or the fire sage? Or the ten dozen giant dinosaurs? What casual would even *GET* to any of those areas? What casual could even stand the first 20 minutes of Dark Souls? I've tried to get friends and family on the game, and most of them don't get beyond the church before deciding it's not worth the aggrovation! So, if you say "it's not that hard", what area of the discussion are you occupying when saying such a thing? Compared to brain surgery, maybe it's not that hard. But that's not relevant to the discussion. We're talking about the dumbening of Dark Souls so casuals can join the party. That's what's relevant to the discussion, so if you're saying "it's not that hard" you must be suggestiong casuals can already join the party and thus we don't have to worry about the dumbening. You're wrong. They can't and we do.

 

[old manatee]

We can't have anything nice.

 

[Moral Panic]

It can't be a good idea to spend a ton of money advertising a game that only appeals to a certain type of ultra-obsessive nerd that makes up such a small percentage of gamers.

2.4 million is ultra obssessed nerd numbers?

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

Nothing we've seen so far points to a dumbed down game. Bigger marketing is good.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

If this game sinks From Software, I will set the Bandai Namco HQ on fire the next time I'm in Japan.

If it's just Namco marketing budget going crazy because the can and DaS2 is still good... eh thass ok.

 

[beje]

Jesus Christ some of you are idiots. This story is about marketing and has nothing to do with the game itself.

If there's something that recent development shenanigans and anonymous leaks and reports have taught us is that in a AAA environment the marketing team not only can but also will put their dirty paws in actual development if that makes for a more "marketable" product to the casual masses using the dreaded and harmful design-by-comitee approach. Guess what? This is exactly what happened to Dead Space 3 and now the franchise is dead.

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

If there's something that recent development shenanigans and anonymous leaks and reports have taught us is that in a AAA environment the marketing team not only can but also will put their dirty paws in actual development if that makes for a more "marketable" product to the casual masses using the dreaded and harmful design-by-comitee approach. Guess what? This is exactly what happened to Dead Space 3 and now the franchise is dead.

But Bamco doesn't own From. They're just the publisher in the west.

 

[Sanctuary]

Dark Souls 2: Balls Deep

Dark Souls 2: Balls Deep Down Anders.

 

[Risette]

If this game sinks From Software, I will set the Bandai Namco HQ on fire the next time I'm in Japan.

they [Bandai Namco] don't even publish this game in Japan, so it's not going to sink From. They don't own From. They don't even own the IP (although I imagine they and From have some sort of official relationship considering how big they seem to be banking on it.) At worst it will sink their international relationship with Bandai Namco (which, admittedly, is actually pretty valuable for a small Japanese developer these days trying to sell to a worldwide audience, but they could always fall back on Sony & Demon's Souls.)

People are seriously overestimating the influence Bandai Namco has on this game and From. The only thing they do is sell it internationally.

 

[Midou]

But I won't fall for this stupidity about Dark Souls being so far above and beyond that nobody who enjoys Skyrim could possibly relate to it.

Sometimes it feels like you guys don't actually WANT people to enjoy games like Dark Souls...

Yeah, I think anyone who can get into the Skyrim world, and enjoys it not entirely for open-world-ness but for the setting, medieval weapons/armors and that sort of thing, could certainly find a home in Dark Souls. It may also make them have higher standards for combat and push Bethesda a bit into making some better combat.

I personally wish as many people as possible would play Dark Souls, everytime I see a post or hear about someone starting it up for the first time, regardless of their skill or casual level, it gives me a certain satisfaction. People who would rage quit the game for what it is instantly have other problems, and are probably not the kind who put hundreds of hours into a game like Skyrim anyway.

In general, I'm not sure why people are jumping to these stupid conclusions that the method of marketing defines the integrity of the game being enough like Dark Souls, if we had not had like the 12 minutes of footage and related interviews, I can imagine, but now it's a pointless fear.

 

[Yuterald]

If they want Elder Scrolls/Skyrim players to play their game, why don't they just fucking make a new King's Field? You don't pull people who probably play Elder Scroll's games primarily in first person to jump ship and expect them to feel right at home in a hardcore, reflex/skill based 3rd person action RPG.

...I just want From Software to go back to King's Field, lol!

 

[twelver]

Prepare for the most epic dumbing down of a franchise ever done

My thoughts exactly.

 

[genjiZERO]

Has there been any good news about this game? I'm definitely going to have to take a wait and see approach.

 

[Krusenstern]

Has there been any good news about this game? I'm definitely going to have to take a wait and see approach.

There were no negative news about it. The developers said they want to keep the game the way it is and want new players to experience it the same way. Sticking to the core mechanincs and improving on them, rather than implementing something new. And from the previews this game is a Souls game.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Has there been any good news about this game? I'm definitely going to have to take a wait and see approach.

The gameplay reveal focused on the varity of deaths the player will experiance..... It's going to be Souls game, don't worry.

Hope Namcos effort pays off. I'd really like to see the Souls series getting more popular and with that more games getting more difficult again.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Are we making up narratives based on lack of context?

People that like Skyrim would probably buy a Madden RPG because they can trade between other teams for better locker room equipment and bigger Gatorade jugs.

What is it with the Skyrim hate? Don't get it. You can't compre TES with the Souls series.
I played both and.... hold on to something.... I actually like Skyrim more than Demons and Dark Souls because of the rich world and the endless lore.

I'm really eager to see how Namco wants to draw Skyrim only players to the Souls series though. I couldn't think of any way that acutally makes sense.

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

It's like some people only read the news bits we get about dks2 when it's about getting more people to play it. While dissmissing that there is gameplay and interviews proofing it's still a souls game.

 

[TheCongressman1]

...I just want From Software to go back to King's Field, lol!

I wouldn't mind a new King's Field.

 

[Clockwork5]

I think there is some over reaction going on. This statement was released by the Marketing Department at Namco. Of course marketing is going to try to appeal to everyone, it is their job. This is probably a case of them having an expanded budget as compared to Dark Souls so they are going to intensify the marketing.

This has nothing to do with the developers, and judging from the gameplay videos, I am pretty confident Dark Souls 2 will not play how NeoGaf seems to think all AAA titles play.

 

[Yuterald]

I wouldn't mind a new King's Field.

Yeah, I've been championing a new King's Field with any opportunity I can get. I'd love to see From Software go up against Bethesda, King's Field VS. Elder Scrolls style. As much as I love the Souls games, I already feel like I've had enough. I feel like it's time for them to go back to their roots before they lose sight of what made their games so special to begin with. Although, this will probably never happen if they continue to make money off of these games. But seriously, we're in dire need of a TRUE first person dungeon crawler and with their new found popularity/resources/experience they could do King's Field proper like no one else.