Support NeoGAF

[AF_Writer]

I think GameStop is going to have to be even more creative to get gamers to buy used over new. I imagine that used Xbox One games will be about $5 cheaper than their new counterparts, while GameStop really pushes its PowerUp Reward system for used games. You'll end up getting significantly more points for purchasing used games over new.

 

[GetemMa]

Websites like polygon just use these unnamed sources and make assertions and if they turn out to be wrong then no big deal for them. Tomorrow is just another day of click baiting with no accountability.

 

[Pineconn]

Outside of bad reporting on serious issues like Fox News and politics, the way Polygon handled Sim city is probably something that would be used in a journalism class as an example of what not to do.

Fox News is an issue? And a serious issue, at that?

 

[electricpirate]

People are going insane in here. A straight news style piece with some new details is being called a shill piece because it wasn't as negative as pseudo opinion piece. Crecente isn't exactly defending, or attacking the practice, he's just trying to get clarification via unnamed sources.

At some point you are just trying to be outraged.

 

[AkuMifune]

If you're reading this thread and shocked Brian Crecente would get major facts wrong, spin a story for hits or flat out be a smarmy asshole, you haven't being paying attention enough.

you should.

 

[Satchel]

You will get next to no trade in value, and you won't be able to lend or make a private sale. I say they are paying for it one way or another.

I don't know where you trade in your games, but you get next to nothing NOW, and have been for years. This won't change. They can't give you nothing, which is the only place to go from what they give now.

When all is said and done, the retailers will simply get less. Because if they give less and charge more, less people will trade in their games. People will buy less new games as they will become fussier about their choices knowing they won't be trading in.

So if the used dealers want to keep going long term, they're going to have to take the hit. I'm fine with that. They've been ripping us off for too long.

In Australia, used games prices at EB Games are literally only $5 or so less than new. Why even bother buying used?

I only buy new, and only at prices I deem worthwhile as well.

The counter-argument is that in controlling used prices, one can control the rate at which the price of a game, new or used reduces. Under the current system, the option of used games at a cheaper price may drive the price of new lower in a race to the bottom.

Yes an no. In the end, the price WILL drop so it's a matter of how long consumers are willing to wait for the new games.

I think GameStop is going to have to be even more creative to get gamers to buy used over new. I imagine that used Xbox One games will be about $5 cheaper than their new counterparts

See above. In Australia, EB have been doing this for years, so no difference here. Hence why I don't see what the fuss is about. If Microsoft can find a way to fuck over EB Games, I'm on board.

 

[Hawk269]

I think GameStop is going to have to be even more creative to get gamers to buy used over new. I imagine that used Xbox One games will be about $5 cheaper than their new counterparts, while GameStop really pushes its PowerUp Reward system for used games. You'll end up getting significantly more points for purchasing used games over new.

That is what their pricing structure is right now. Go into any Gamestop and look for a used copy of any new game and it is only $5.00 cheaper than a new copy. They do this cause they know that some consumers would rather save $5.00 especially for a game that is recent.

 

[Chuck]

Getting Brian Crecente to head their news department was a sign that the site would be a total joke. And it is.

also, oh cool, inside source. that's my favorite source.

 

[TheHater]

I don't know where you trade in your games, but you get next to nothing NOW, and have been for years. This won't change. They can't give you nothing, which is the only place to go from what they give now.

Well I was able to send 6 dollars at Blockbuster to buy 3 used game and then go to GameStop with those 3 games and get Fallout 3 at no additional charge

 

[funkystudent]

Has Mr Gies chimed in with his standard "deal with it" response to the used cames controversy?

 

[Yagharek]

See above. In Australia, EB have been doing this for years, so no difference here. Hence why I don't see what the fuss is about. If Microsoft can find a way to fuck over EB Games, I'm on board.

EB actually looked after customers during the rrod fiasco before microsoft admitted anything.

 

[Catchpenny]

You will get next to no trade in value, and you won't be able to lend or make a private sale. I say they are paying for it one way or another.

Yes, this is the biggest problem. People act like Gamestop is the only venue for used games. It isn't, whether you want to talk retail or private sales. I regularly sell games online after I'm finished with them. Lending is rare for me these days, but when I was in my teens and early twenties, my friends and I traded/lent games all the time. It's a shitty direction to go in.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

I will not be reading Polygon in the future.

This should be the prevailing sentiment with anything that involves Brian Crecente.

 

[Satchel]

EB actually looked after customers during the rrod fiasco before microsoft admitted anything.

"Looked after?" You mean, as in return faulty equipment under warranty. That's not "looking after", that's standard procedure for basically any electrical equipment in Australia.

My launch 360 RRODed day one. EB swapped it over. My launch PS2 died after 1 week, Target swapped it over.

It's standard procedure.

 

[Deleted member 8095]

I will be highly disappointed if they don't clarify this shit cloud at E3. Loved the stage demos but I also really love used games.

 

[freddy]

Polygon is one site I would like the brains trust here to look at banning. They are just outright shills and don't even seem bothered to hide their contempt for any clarification on their stance.

Is anyone surprised what slant their stories have?

 

[Htown]

Talk about your storm in a tea cup.

If someone is buying a used game, it means they're not buying the game at launch.

If they're not buying the game at launch, it means they're happy to wait for thew game so they can buy it at a cheaper price.

Since the price of used games will most likely go up, why not just wait that LITTLE bit longer and wait for the NEW game price to drop?

I waited a whole 3 months and saved $50AU on God of War Ascension. Bought it new. It's really not that big of a deal. Just don't buy used anymore if it's such a problem. Used games are generally a rip off anyway. It's barely a saving over new.

why do you think the price of new games goes down so quickly nowadays?

 

[The Crimson Kid]

Well, to make this clear, Microsoft is just one company that has purchased ads on Polygon. Other ad buys include PlayStation, Speed Stick, Head & Shoulders, Qualcomm, Ford and others that I can't remember. I think some publishers like Deep Silver and maybe Capcom also have purchased ads? None of those companies "funded" Polygon in the sense that it's accused of.

To the best of my knowledge, Microsoft's ad buy was related to videos. Whatever money they spent in advertising was mostly shown in front of and after video features like the Human Angle series and Press Reset. It's an advertising deal like thousands of other advertising deals related to websites.

The real funding of Polygon comes from its parent company, Vox Media, which also owns The Verge and SB Nation. Vox Media itself was funded through various investments. These are, according to Wikipedia:

There are "thousands of other advertising deals related to websites" like the one where a big producer of the products the site covers gives the site $750,000 to make a promotional documentary set to coincide with said site launching? Mind informing me of just a couple examples of this phenomenon that is supposedly extremely common?

EDIT: Just realized, it sounds like you work for or with Polygon. That's really cool, because inside sources are my favorite sources.
EDIT2: Beaten, oh well.

 

[Killing_Joke]

So their sources know more than Microsofts corporate vice president? Ok. lol

 

[Deleted member 8095]

"Looked after?" You mean, as in return faulty equipment under warranty. That's not "looking after", that's standard procedure for basically any electrical equipment in Australia.

My launch 360 RRODed day one. EB swapped it over. My launch PS2 died after 1 week, Target swapped it over.

It's standard procedure.

My GameStop looked after me at the Dreamcast launch. I remember some disc drive issue that was making some popping sound. They let me trade in 3 systems before I got one that worked right. As a 17 year old buying his first console with his own money this made me very happy.

 

[rockx4]

I don't know where you trade in your games, but you get next to nothing NOW, and have been for years. This won't change. They can't give you nothing, which is the only place to go from what they give now.

When all is said and done, the retailers will simply get less. Because if they give less and charge more, less people will trade in their games. People will buy less new games as they will become fussier about their choices knowing they won't be trading in.

So if the used dealers want to keep going long term, they're going to have to take the hit. I'm fine with that. They've been ripping us off for too long.

In Australia, used games prices at EB Games are literally only $5 or so less than new. Why even bother buying used?



Yes an no. In the end, the price WILL drop so it's a matter of how long consumers are willing to wait for the new games.



See above. In Australia, EB have been doing this for years, so no difference here. Hence why I don't see what the fuss is about. If Microsoft can find a way to fuck over EB Games, I'm on board.

I rarely use Gamestop trade-ins, but sometimes they do have great promotions where they offer extra trade in credit. Microsoft is essentially killing off private sales of used games for the Xbox One.

 

[Alucrid]

I don't know where you trade in your games, but you get next to nothing NOW, and have been for years. This won't change. They can't give you nothing, which is the only place to go from what they give now.

When all is said and done, the retailers will simply get less. Because if they give less and charge more, less people will trade in their games. People will buy less new games as they will become fussier about their choices knowing they won't be trading in.

So if the used dealers want to keep going long term, they're going to have to take the hit. I'm fine with that. They've been ripping us off for too long.

In Australia, used games prices at EB Games are literally only $5 or so less than new. Why even bother buying used?



Yes an no. In the end, the price WILL drop so it's a matter of how long consumers are willing to wait for the new games.



See above. In Australia, EB have been doing this for years, so no difference here. Hence why I don't see what the fuss is about. If Microsoft can find a way to fuck over EB Games, I'm on board.

And this argument has what to do with me selling my games of gaf?

 

[JDSN]

Why would they be banned?

Plagiarism? Aside from the stuff posted here already.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Yes an no. In the end, the price WILL drop so it's a matter of how long consumers are willing to wait for the new games.

There isn't a precedent to determine what effect this will have on the rate of depreciation nor whether and how it will affect the price floor on new games. The potential reduction in new game sales due to reduced consumer purchasing power is also a factor to consider. It is a major change to the status quo. And this is all while setting aside that the additional and substantive changes to the status quo of private sale and lending, which are prevented by this practice.

So pretending it's a "storm in a tea cup" is folly.

 

[Hieberrr]

So wait... Does this mean I can't let my friends borrow games? Does this mean if I buy a use/borrow a game, I can't bring it to, say, the cottage?

 

[Cynar]

The idea that consumers don't pay the fee is ridiculous. A retailer like GameStop isn't going to sell a used game at a loss. If Microsoft charges a fee, then that fee will get passed onto consumers one way or another. You'll get less when trading a game in, and get charged more when buying a used game. Game journalists need to understand this before parroting Microsoft's "gamers don't pay" line. (talking about Crecente here, not Klepek.)

Yup, you'd have to be crazy to fall for this line.

 

[Yagharek]

"Looked after?" You mean, as in return faulty equipment under warranty. That's not "looking after", that's standard procedure for basically any electrical equipment in Australia.

My launch 360 RRODed day one. EB swapped it over. My launch PS2 died after 1 week, Target swapped it over.

It's standard procedure.

It's standard procedure, but Microsoft historically put up arbitrary barriers to prevent returns. Customers need to get a "return authorisation number" from microsoft before they will accept it as faulty, and because they didnt acknowledge RROD, this was a pain in the arse for a lot of people trying to return the dud systems.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So wait... Does this mean I can't let my friends borrow games? Does this mean if I buy a use/borrow a game, I can't bring it to, say, the cottage?

Private sale or lending would cease under such a system, with the exception of lending your actual account to other people. If someone wants to play your game disc on their system with their account, they would need to pay the full price of a game.

On the topic of account lending, I would have assumed there's some sort of terms of use clause preventing that. How many systems can your account (and digital purchases) be on now?

 

[AF_Writer]

That is what their pricing structure is right now. Go into any Gamestop and look for a used copy of any new game and it is only $5.00 cheaper than a new copy. They do this cause they know that some consumers would rather save $5.00 especially for a game that is recent.

True, but with Microsoft's new system, there will be even less of a reason to buy new over used because physical Xbone discs lose aren't going to be as valuable as Xbox 360 or Xbox games were in the past.

Why is this? Because, as a consumer, you have far less opportunities to sell your used games. You'll be forced to find authorized retailers, like GameStop and Best Buy, that will likely give you even less money for your trade-ins than they do now. That's certainly one way GameStop will ensure it keeps earning profit on every used game it sells.

In the end, Microsoft, publishers and the GameStops of the world will continue to make a lot of money. No matter how you look at this, the consumers are going to be the ones losing. And we WILL be paying for the activation fee, in some form or another.

 

[freddy]

True, but with Microsoft's new system, there will be even less of a reason to buy new over used because physical Xbone discs lose aren't going to be as valuable as Xbox 360 or Xbox games were in the past.

Why is this? Because, as a consumer, you have far less opportunities to sell your used games. You'll be forced to find authorized retailers, like GameStop and Best Buy, that will likely give you even less money for your trade-ins than they do now. That's certainly one way GameStop will ensure it keeps earning profit on every used game it sells.

In the end, Microsoft, publishers and the GameStops of the world will continue to make a lot of money. No matter how you look at this, the consumers are going to be the ones losing. And we WILL be paying for the activation fee, in some form or another.

Unless you decide not to buy the system.

 

[eastmen]

True, but with Microsoft's new system, there will be even less of a reason to buy new over used because physical Xbone discs lose aren't going to be as valuable as Xbox 360 or Xbox games were in the past.

Why is this? Because, as a consumer, you have far less opportunities to sell your used games. You'll be forced to find authorized retailers, like GameStop and Best Buy, that will likely give you even less money for your trade-ins than they do now. That's certainly one way GameStop will ensure it keeps earning profit on every used game it sells.

In the end, Microsoft, publishers and the GameStops of the world will continue to make a lot of money. No matter how you look at this, the consumers are going to be the ones losing. And we WILL be paying for the activation fee, in some form or another.

Will we ? I haven't heard anything about a customer not being able to pay the fee to deactivate the game from his account and sell it on their own.


To many people are jumping to conclusions that we just don't know yet. We don't even know if sony will allow used games.

 

[qizah]

Yup

http://kotaku.com/5052203/what-is-the-xbox-pure-[update]

Ugh. I never read the original story until now. Shifting the blame...

 

[Alebrije]

And funded by MS.

And Arthur Gies is there.

Sounds like a big happy family ................of evil

 

[AF_Writer]

Will we ? I haven't heard anything about a customer not being able to pay the fee to deactivate the game from his account and sell it on their own.


To many people are jumping to conclusions that we just don't know yet. We don't even know if sony will allow used games.

Even in that situation, you're being forced to pay a fee just to sell something you've already purchased. In what bizarro world is that reasonable?

 

[Jake Tower]

Ugh. I never read the original story until now. Shifting the blame...

If you want more context, the whole thing originated on the CAGcast when CheapyD pointed out how the game blogs would post the most obviously bullshit rumors as news. So as a joke, Wombat proposed a contest for CAG forum members to post something that is obviously bullshit in the forum to see if a game blog would report it. A CAG user made a user blog post with a fake ass photo... and Crecente took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

Original CAGcast segment: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/podcast/bullshitblogcontest.mp3

CAG user blog post with fake ass photo: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/blog.php?u=89202

Follow up CAGcast after Crecente exposing himself as a fraud journalist http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197923

 

[eastmen]

Even in that situation, you're being forced to pay a fee just to sell something you've already purchased. In what bizarro world is that reasonable?

goes to www.ebay.com looks at the fee listing.... oh and then a second fee called paypal.


Goes to amazon.com and looks at fee listing .... oh wow.


I guess the bizarro world that I live in is the real world ....


Look I worked at gamestop back in 1999 to 2002 and I know a lot of people go through games quick and don't want them sitting around .I know some people just don't want to read a review and buy every game as soon as its out only to find they suck and want to trade the game in. I also know people terrible with money and will come in and trade in all their games and systems for cash and then come back two months later and drop 3 times the price for the same system back.

But this doesn't bother me one bit .

 

[crazygambit]

They know which side their bread is buttered. Although if the recent rumors are correct, Crecente is right, GameStop will pay the fee.

Actually GameStop are already paying:

Do you honestly think it matters who pays the fee? It'll be included in the price the buyer of the used game pays, and therefore in the trade in value the original customer receives.

Trade in value will ve lower in exactly the fee amount and second hand prices will be higher in exactly the fee amount, but it's ok since you won't pay the fee...

Ridiculous.

 

[shinra-bansho]

NB I already noted that yes, the end user will be paying the "fee" even if ostensibly it's GameStop.

Will we ? I haven't heard anything about a customer not being able to pay the fee to deactivate the game from his account and sell it on their own.

To many people are jumping to conclusions that we just don't know yet. We don't even know if sony will allow used games.

Whether or not Sony allows used games does not make Microsoft's practice better or worse. If Sony institutes similar practices at a systemic level, it just makes both bad.

As to the former, how would that suddenly make this not a drastic change from the status quo. Paying a fee to sell something via private transaction you already bought. Under such scenario, you could not even give away your games without incurring a fee. And they've already indicated that lending your games will incur the lendee a full price "fee."

 

[weekend_warrior]

I don't know where you trade in your games, but you get next to nothing NOW, and have been for years. This won't change. They can't give you nothing, which is the only place to go from what they give now.

When all is said and done, the retailers will simply get less. Because if they give less and charge more, less people will trade in their games. People will buy less new games as they will become fussier about their choices knowing they won't be trading in.

So if the used dealers want to keep going long term, they're going to have to take the hit. I'm fine with that. They've been ripping us off for too long.

In Australia, used games prices at EB Games are literally only $5 or so less than new. Why even bother buying used?



Yes an no. In the end, the price WILL drop so it's a matter of how long consumers are willing to wait for the new games.



See above. In Australia, EB have been doing this for years, so no difference here. Hence why I don't see what the fuss is about. If Microsoft can find a way to fuck over EB Games, I'm on board.

You know Gamestop isn't the only place you can trade in/buy used games right? Amazon usually offers pretty reasonable trade-in value. There are also places like Gamefly and Redbox whose business's revolve around renting used games. There's also the simple ability to let friends borrow games, ever heard of that? This isn't just a "LOL, who goes to gamestop and buys used games when new games only cost $5 more" situation.

 

[OutToLunch]

Private sale or lending would cease under such a system, with the exception of lending your actual account to other people. If someone wants to play your game disc on their system with their account, they would need to pay the full price of a game.

On the topic of account lending, I would have assumed there's some sort of terms of use clause preventing that. How many systems can your account (and digital purchases) be on now?

They don't even need to do that... Kinect likely won't allow you to sign into the account unless you're in the room.

 

[shinra-bansho]

goes to www.ebay.com looks at the fee listing.... oh and then a second fee called paypal.

Goes to amazon.com and looks at fee listing .... oh wow.

Are you actually trying to compare a service fee from sites providing an avenue for resale, to a platform holder charging a fee for essentially nothing so that you can enter into a private transaction?

 

[eastmen]

NB I already noted that yes, the end user will be paying the "fee" even if ostensibly it's GameStop.
Whether or not Sony allows used games does not make Microsoft's practice better or worse. If Sony institutes similar practices at a systemic level, it just makes both bad.

As to the former, how would that suddenly make this not a drastic change from the status quo. Paying a fee to sell something via private transaction you already bought. Under such scenario, you could not even give away your games without incurring a fee. And they've already indicated that lending your games will incur the lendee a full price "fee."

you can sell it before you activate it . Just like I can't sell windows or sony vegas after I buy it and use it . I can't even pay a small fee to sell it to someone else later on. So at least this way I can still make some money back.


On the pc there is no way for me to sell my games and there hasn't been for over a decade now. The world didn't end and gaming on pc still existed and we still got great games.

 

[baekshi]

You know Gamestop isn't the only place you can trade in/buy used games right? Amazon usually offers pretty reasonable trade-in value. There are also places like Gamefly and Redbox whose business's revolve around renting used games. There's also the simple ability to let friends borrow games, ever heard of that? This isn't just a "LOL, who goes to gamestop and buys used games when new games only cost $5 more" situation.

You also miss his biggest point. Australia isn't in America.

nevermind

 

[Satchel]

You know Gamestop isn't the only place you can trade in/buy used games right? Amazon usually offers pretty reasonable trade-in value. There are also places like Gamefly and Redbox whose business's revolve around renting used games. There's also the simple ability to let friends borrow games, ever heard of that? This isn't just a "LOL, who goes to gamestop and buys used games when new games only cost $5 more" situation.

Isn't this thread about used game sales at stores though?

The borrowing/lending thing is another issue. I was referring specifically to used game dealers.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Unless you decide not to buy the system.

If this goes through, I think we as gamers need to unite. This is bullshit for everyone.

 

[AF_Writer]

goes to www.ebay.com looks at the fee listing.... oh and then a second fee called paypal.


Goes to amazon.com and looks at fee listing .... oh wow.


I guess the bizarro world that I live in is the real world ....


Look I worked at gamestop back in 1999 to 2002 and I know a lot of people go through games quick and don't want them sitting around .I know some people just don't want to read a review and buy every game as soon as its out only to find they suck and want to trade the game in. I also know people terrible with money and will come in and trade in all their games and systems for cash and then come back two months later and drop 3 times the price for the same system back.

But this doesn't bother me one bit .

You're paying eBay for the service they provide YOU as the seller, not for the right to sell the game in the first place, which is what Microsoft is doing. Moreover, while eBay is certainly convenient, it definitely isn't the be all, end all. If you don't wish to pay significant fees, there's always Craigslist, CAG and a number of other options.

You also have to consider what this policy is going to do to the video game rentals, which it will effectively kill if it becomes adopted by the rest of the industry. You'll no longer be able to rent from Gamefly or Redbox and have the joy if experiencing a new release for cheap.

 

[Satchel]

why do you think the price of new games goes down so quickly nowadays?

It does here in Australia.

Quicker than ever. Especially if you don't buy from EB Games. I get the majority of my games from JB Hifi, and they drop the price of games, almost without fail, after 2 or 3 months.

As I said, God o fWar Ascension released for $89AU, and within 2 or 3 months, down to $39AU. This happens for pretty much every new release game. The discounted level might not be the same every time, but it drops significantly enough to ignore used games.

 

[troushers]

you can sell it before you activate it . Just like I can't sell windows or sony vegas after I buy it and use it . I can't even pay a small fee to sell it to someone else later on. So at least this way I can still make some money back.

How do you prove to a buyer that it is an unactivated copy?

 

[eastmen]

You're paying eBay for the service they provide YOU as the seller, not for the right to sell the game in the first place, which is what Microsoft is doing. Moreover, while eBay is certainly convenient, it definitely isn't the be all, end all. If you don't wish to pay significant fees, there's always Craigslist, CAG and a number of other options.

You also have to consider what this policy is going to do to the video game rentals, which it will effectively kill if it becomes adopted by the rest of the industry. You'll no longer be able to rent from Gamefly or Redbox and have the joy if experiencing a new release for cheap.

and i'm paying for the majority of them in some way or another.


THe developers and platform holders want a piece of the used game market. The two choices were to end the used game market or take a piece of it.

Sony will be following up suit in some half assed way too. I bet at first they allow their first party games to be traded in but 3rd parties will want the same set up as xbox one and that is why sony was afraid to say anything at their conference.

 

[smr00]

I will not be reading Polygon in the future.

You should of never started in the first place.

Polygon/Kotaku should be banned from the internet.