Well with this system you would need a code to register the game to your account to play without the disc in. They would essentially be giving out two copies of the game with every purchase because someone could sell the disc and continue to the digital copy.
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Paul Thurrott: How Microsoft Can Fix Xbox One
- Thread starter Tomcat
- Start date
Well with this system you would need a code to register the game to your account to play without the disc in. They would essentially be giving out two copies of the game with every purchase because someone could sell the disc and continue to the digital copy.
I think MS is well aware of that, but they probably figured that by the time Xbox 4 comes around in a decade the market will have shifted between now and then. They can't afford to let Steam and potential Steam competitors continue to eat up the online digital retailer marketshare and mindshare. They can't play catch up 10 years from now if they want to be a leader. They want to start developing themselves as a Games as a Service innovator, because they believe there's far more money in it than protecting the status quo. They believe there's a lot of money in being an online retailer, making the margins on games that Gamestop, Wal-Mart, Redbox, Gamefly etc. do through selling, renting, and trading.
They have the deep pockets to take a beating in the early years if it means they believe there's a bigger pay off later AND that it means they are getting in front of potential future threats from the like of Apple, Google, Samsung, Amazon, Sony, Nintendo, and others. After seeing how the mobile phone game market blew up right in the middle of the generation it has to be ringing in their head that they missed an opportunity. The fact that Steam has just thrived and prospered over the last few years has got to be a threat they discuss weekly and something executives beat them up over as a missed opportunity. Games will be a service some day and MS can't just play catch up if they want a big piece of it.
dragonelite
Member
Wonder if they have tech to rewrite data or rfid chip inside that carries a license.
They could bind that rfid chip to one console or the user could choose to bind the license to his account and forfeit trade in stuff. And in the os they can unbound the license from the console if they wanted to trade it in or lend it.
Yeah, I see Sony doing this with PS+. Offer good game deals online, games you can play for free as long a you stay subscribed, etc. It gets people used to downloading large games, and it makes people want to stay subscribed.
I see MS going down the same path for gold. They've already started with the 360, offering two games a month for free.
I'm a fan of subscription based digital content, so this future appeals to me.
Yup, they're making a long play. I actually admire their balls.
Sony, on the other hand, don't have the cash to play that game, so they've had to stay razor focused and it's resulted in what is a good device and set of policies which keeps them in the game.
TTOOLL
Member
I was listening to one of his podcasts, the one with that guy Andrew, and at some point they started comparing both consoles, I didn't believe when Andrew said that ddr5 was THE SAME as ddr3 and Paul didn't correct him. I mean, theses guys are tech experts....
good effort on the article, Paul!
good effort on the article, Paul!
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Paul was a lot more positive on yesterdays Windows Weekly. He should have brought this kind of fire with him when discussing instead of being so easy on it for the podcast.
And Sony will come out just fine in the end of all of it, too. They have such great, exclusive content that they can just play follow the leader and people will love them for it as they catch up. They have a very strong brand in gaming, very loyal customers, it's their best asset so it's in their best interest to protect that instead of being so risky.
InsaneZero
Member
bonesmccoy
Banned
Me too.
They're not blind. They hear the backlash. They can see the preorders. The writing is already on the wall so they know something has to be done.
That article makes a lot of sense, and a lot of it is doable. Microsoft dumped a lot of money on the 360 to fix the RROD. They're fully capable of dumping a lot of money to fix this launch. They're Microsoft.
I don't think anybody believes they can fully salvage a bad launch, but this console is a long way from dead. There's a lot of damage control that can be done.
Logic is also awesome
That doesn't make any sense. If you buy the $499 version you don't pay $15 per month for Xbox Live. You pay $60 per year (or probably less). The $15 would be an increased price for those who got the $299 console, just like cellphone contracts work.
Either I'm missing something or Thurrott does not really understand how the Xbox business works.
Did the standard price for Live Gold go up to $15 or something? I don't recall it costing $180 per year.
It should be 499 + (5 * 24) = $619
He has said in a few other articles that he thinks they are at technical parity. I find that hard to believe, but I guess we have to wait until we get them side by side to know for absolute certainty
As far as changes, the two biggest problems are the 24 hour check, and the price.
-Disc in drive is so easy and should be implemented
-I'd love for them to get rid of Kinect, but I think it's too central for the device at this point.
-Probably the best way to fix the pricing is a free year of XBL (thinking MS will abandon Gold is nuts) and some Marketplace credit
-I personally have no issue with changing the way games are traded and re-sold, but I understand everyone who does. But they need one policy. Not whatever a third party wants to implement. They also need to clarify what can be shared and with whom
cartoon_soldier
Member
The allowing offline play when a game disk is present is the answer to my biggest problem with the XB1. And it's so simple...come on MS, do it.
I really like Paul Thurrot. I listen to Windows Weekly very often, mostly because I like the trio of Mary Jo Foley, Leo Laporte and him. I don't give a shit about Windows products or Azure or Office or whatever - I just enjoy listening to them talk. It's the perfect background bullshit when I don't feel like putting on music or sitting in silence. He has such a perfect radio voice!
And really, Paul is VERY critical of Microsoft. I highly recommend the recent episode of the podcast, because few people have as many sources inside Microsoft as him, aside from Mary Jo Foley, and both have no reservations on criticizing MS, which they do a lot. MS seems like a very disorganized company, and they mentioned many times that certain departments inside MS often actively work against each other. Madness.
And really, Paul is VERY critical of Microsoft. I highly recommend the recent episode of the podcast, because few people have as many sources inside Microsoft as him, aside from Mary Jo Foley, and both have no reservations on criticizing MS, which they do a lot. MS seems like a very disorganized company, and they mentioned many times that certain departments inside MS often actively work against each other. Madness.
I don't think they can do that. They either always require the disc or never require it to be present. Something in between just allows two people to buy 1 copy and play the game simultaneously (think about the old PC games with CD-check).
famousmortimer
Banned
It's not that simple though.
With the system that Thurriot and you guys are proposing i could buy a disc and use it in my online system and then give the disc to a friend and he could use it on his offline system.
Microsoft is married to this install and then not needing the disc. And it's gonna fucking kill them.
Fushichou187
Member
Very good read, and I agree that the Xbone would make for a helluva competitor if MS tweaked some its policies along the lines of some of Thurrott's suggestions. Among the standouts (to me):
- Offer digital game rentals through XBL. Yeah, it'll fuck over Redbox and Gamefly, but MS and pubs want to do that anyway, so they should do it but make a little money on the side and underscore this vision that MS is so eager to sell of "all you need is Xbox One".
- Offer a subsidized SKU
- "Offline Use Mode". Tweaking his solution a bit, I would say that you could tag a game in your library as "Offline Playable" and that would mean that it could not be shared while that tag existed but would be playable completely offline. If it had already been shared and you tag it after the fact, it will purge the shared copies when those people next connect to the MS mothership. Digital game rentals (if MS did that) cannot be tagged in this manner for obvious reasons.
- Offer digital game rentals through XBL. Yeah, it'll fuck over Redbox and Gamefly, but MS and pubs want to do that anyway, so they should do it but make a little money on the side and underscore this vision that MS is so eager to sell of "all you need is Xbox One".
- Offer a subsidized SKU
- "Offline Use Mode". Tweaking his solution a bit, I would say that you could tag a game in your library as "Offline Playable" and that would mean that it could not be shared while that tag existed but would be playable completely offline. If it had already been shared and you tag it after the fact, it will purge the shared copies when those people next connect to the MS mothership. Digital game rentals (if MS did that) cannot be tagged in this manner for obvious reasons.
H_Prestige
Banned
They can't. Otherwise everyone can just "pirate" games.
And yet, it is the PS4 which has a digital scheme similar to what iOS, Android, and Steam have, the successful digital platforms. The entire market for content could change by 2023. It could be that because of MS's attempt at forcing the digital model onto physical games that questions about ownership could be raised about digital content, and it could be that in ten years, any digital content using digital rights management would be required to allow trade-in of said content. Regardless of the all-digital future or not, Microsoft may not be a part of it because of the failure of Xbox One, while the PlayStation line becomes the defacto video game console because of Sony's more consumer friendly policies.
Renting works especially well with the linear, one and done games. Rent or sell the others at better than Gamestop prices. Provide steam-like sales to compete with PC. Offer old XBLA games for a buck or two to compete with iOS. Gamers get better deals, full selection, more convenience. Give the devs a nice cut instead of lining the pockets of some Gamestop/Gamefly exec. There's a lot of win-win potential.
Microsoft has the right idea with the digital future, they just completely messed up the delivery. It still seems like a system that can be fixed.
Absolutely, there are many possibilities. Sony, MS, and Nintendo are all making different bets. I think next gen will be one of the most interesting ones to watch play out than all the ones before it. The landscape it going to alter significantly, whether it's players coming into/dropping out of the market, or the market becoming highly diversified.
Not when thousands of copies of their entire library are floating around in a secondary market. The success of a digital platform is based on controlling secondary sales and getting that revenue. That's the whole basis of the success of iOS and Steam. Sony sticking with the old system for the secondary market is just the old system.
But Sony already controls secondary sales on their digital platform and gets the revenue from it. It is the physical platform that still has the secondary market. If the idea is that the all-digital future is inevitable, then would it not be better to just let the physical past die naturally as more and more people go all digital for their content? Need I remind you that both iOS and Steam control the secondary market because digital platforms have no secondary market.
dragonelite
Member
They should just unpackage kinect and sell for $359 seems a more fair price compared to ps4 $399. I haven't seen a game where i said dam that 50% more theoretical flop count compared to xbone makes a difference or the higher bandwidth count. And if i wanted graphics i would get the multiplat title for me pc.
And sell kinect separated for $149. Its they should have never come out with all this forced on stuff. I just hate mandatory kinect connection i don't want a spy cam. I think the game watchdog is pretty good example what would happen if people don't protest a bit against such systems. And just always say yes to it given the latest prism scandal. Hope governments and people will see whistleblowers as heroes and not as criminals and actually reward them for coming out.
They wanted the future yesterday and not gradually build up to it for people that are not ready for a digital only platform. And that is what is killing them and their very bad PR and fuck you peasant attitude to people that have limited internet access.
They should just stop the 24 hour check if the disk is in the machine give the option to digitize your game so its bounded to your account and can't be physically resold. Probably means they need some way to erase the license key that is on the disk and i can throw away the disk and case. And not be worried if the disk gets damaged or a friend looses it.
And as far as it goes they have digital sharing. Just give people the option and make it more attractive to digitize a disk license or buy a digital license on day one of the game release.
And allow self publishing but im pretty sure they will do that in WinRT side of the Xbone with something like XNA2.0 or WinRT
they need those indie support to get people into their ecosystem for those $0~10 games people buy on impulse. Because those developers made the ios and android ecosystem.
Yeah. Microsoft doesn't seem to respond quickly to markets as well on their best days.
dragonelite
Member
Upper management should wake up from lala land the longer they the longer the press will give them bad views. Military is apparently a big thing in the US and i would reckon that the policies are hurting the people that serve will not stick well in the US.
I think Microsoft has a massive challenge on its hands. There isn't an easy fix when you talk about trust in a consumer relationship. You can make some improvements - crazy incentives etc - to reach some people but actually fully reversing this damage will be extremely difficult. Internally changes are difficult if the fundamentals of their approach are underpinning a long term strategy.
On top of that, E3 was the biggest pre-launch opportunity for wide reaching press. There won't be another like it until launch itself. And this press has been eviscerating for Xbox One and that's fuelling really bad word of mouth. It's not simply a case of a product being disinteresting or presenting problems that'll be solved over time, like a high price... it's a case of people feeling actively threatened by it and warning others.
On top of that, E3 was the biggest pre-launch opportunity for wide reaching press. There won't be another like it until launch itself. And this press has been eviscerating for Xbox One and that's fuelling really bad word of mouth. It's not simply a case of a product being disinteresting or presenting problems that'll be solved over time, like a high price... it's a case of people feeling actively threatened by it and warning others.
Of course it does: each disc contains an unique watermark that acts as a CD-Key. Those surely cannot be reproduced by your usual BD-ROM burner.
He missed one big one, then a few lesser points I'll rant about.
1) The Xbox is also a weaker console with less RAM, less powerful RAM, and we still don't know the system specs that could also be a factor.
Solution: There really isn't one. The PS4 simply has an advantage here.
2) Kinect privacy concerns
He basically ignores this point and just refers to MS PR statements saying that users control privacy settings. This is naive, and it's not a complete picture of what's even going on. He doesn't mention PRISM. He doesn't mention MS execs on the record giving presentations about new interactive advertising and data collection. He doesn't mention that Glenn Greenwald is being threatened with arrest by congressmen for reporting on PRISM, but he wants to pretend like we have complete control over privacy with Kinect? No. The only complete control people would have is to not have the Kinect at all, so at least he mentions that.
3) First party support
It's not yet clear that MS can really establish a library of exclusives that really can compete with Sony and Nintendo's. I'm betting they absolutely can't.
4) His solutions are a fantasy. Get rid of Xbox Live Gold? That simply will never happen. Drop Kinect? That won't happen either. MS is betting the whole farm on selling information and premium advertisements through Kinect. They're betting the whole farm on being the future gateway for television by combining Kinect and TV for unparalleled advertising options. They care more about that than the games, and all you have to do is watch the Xbone reveal to see that.
1) The Xbox is also a weaker console with less RAM, less powerful RAM, and we still don't know the system specs that could also be a factor.
Solution: There really isn't one. The PS4 simply has an advantage here.
2) Kinect privacy concerns
He basically ignores this point and just refers to MS PR statements saying that users control privacy settings. This is naive, and it's not a complete picture of what's even going on. He doesn't mention PRISM. He doesn't mention MS execs on the record giving presentations about new interactive advertising and data collection. He doesn't mention that Glenn Greenwald is being threatened with arrest by congressmen for reporting on PRISM, but he wants to pretend like we have complete control over privacy with Kinect? No. The only complete control people would have is to not have the Kinect at all, so at least he mentions that.
3) First party support
It's not yet clear that MS can really establish a library of exclusives that really can compete with Sony and Nintendo's. I'm betting they absolutely can't.
4) His solutions are a fantasy. Get rid of Xbox Live Gold? That simply will never happen. Drop Kinect? That won't happen either. MS is betting the whole farm on selling information and premium advertisements through Kinect. They're betting the whole farm on being the future gateway for television by combining Kinect and TV for unparalleled advertising options. They care more about that than the games, and all you have to do is watch the Xbone reveal to see that.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
wait for the other shoe to drop
How MS can save the Xbone:
1. Keep all proposed draconian restrictions in place.
2. Sell console for $99.
3. Sell all new games for maximum of $20.
If the console and games are cheap, people will put up with the licence model bullshit. If you keep the hardware/software prices the same as a normal console, people will be fucked off becaues it's not a normal console.
MS dun goofed. The end.
1. Keep all proposed draconian restrictions in place.
2. Sell console for $99.
3. Sell all new games for maximum of $20.
If the console and games are cheap, people will put up with the licence model bullshit. If you keep the hardware/software prices the same as a normal console, people will be fucked off becaues it's not a normal console.
MS dun goofed. The end.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Most of those ideas revolve around scrapping the fundamental ideals of the console. MS are in big trouble if they really need to do that
I don't even think MS has to fix the price, just fix the other stuff and then all the bad buzz surrounding the console will go away. It probably won't sell gangbusters, like the PS4 will. but it will sell out it's initial shipment for sure. The price is the least of Microsoft's worries now.
entremet
Member
I like Thurott. I know he's an MS homer, but he should be running the game division not Mattrick.
You only get the TV Overlays if you connect it to a cable box. Just don't connect it. The One's media stuff it is the least of its issues.
You only get the TV Overlays if you connect it to a cable box. Just don't connect it. The One's media stuff it is the least of its issues.
BruiserBear
Banned
OMG, the lols in this post are overwhelming.
DRM is here to stay, but Microsoft will leave it up to to publishers to implement it? The DRM is built right into the console!