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[BertramCooper]

I was informed yesterday that I'm getting a substantial raise and a $1,000 bonus (YAY!), so I'm going to be impetuous and wasteful and spend the bonus on a new 50" plasma television.

Naturally, it's going to be a Panasonic, but I can't decide between this year's model (ST60 - $1,000) or last year's model (ST50 - $850).

Both are among the highest reviewed plasma TV sets ever, with a slight edge going to the ST60. However, the ST60 has received significant criticism for its input lag, which makes it problematic for gaming. I don't play video games that much these days, but I play them enough to make it a legitimate concern.

For those of you familiar with Panny's plasmas, what would your pick be? Is this picture quality improvement on the ST60 enough to negate the input lag? Or should I go with the ST50, which would save me $150 and alleviate any concern about input lag?

For what it's worth, the prices on both of these sets are insane. Either would be a total steal.

 

[undercoverb0ss]

Own a 50" ST60 and the input lag is not noticeable to me at all, but all my gaming has been done with a 360 controller hooked up to my PC.

Maybe if you play with mouse+kb, but I have a monitor for those types of games.

 

[Maxrunner]

Is their top of line still the VT50?

 

[BertramCooper]

Own a 50" ST60 and the input lag is not noticeable to me at all, but all my gaming has been done with a 360 controller hooked up to my PC.

Maybe if you play with mouse+kb, but I have a monitor for those types of games.

It's hard to tell with TVs what's really important and what's just tech nerd hand wringing. I have a feeling I probably wouldn't even notice a difference, considering I'm currently using a seven-year-old LCD.

Is their top of line still the VT50?

I believe the VT60s are now out.

 

[Van Owen]

Is their top of line still the VT50?

ZT series is now their top Plasma.

 

[undercoverb0ss]

It's hard to tell with TVs what's really important and what's just tech nerd hand wringing. I have a feeling I probably wouldn't even notice a difference, considering I'm currently using a seven-year-old LCD.

I didn't know it was an issue until browsing avsforum. The picture quality on this set is really a thing of beauty, the price is just the icing on the cake.

 

[rsam87]

Own a 50" ST60 and the input lag is not noticeable to me at all, but all my gaming has been done with a 360 controller hooked up to my PC.

Maybe if you play with mouse+kb, but I have a monitor for those types of games.

This is a question I've been having too.

What type of games do you play? Any fighting games?

 

[Jhriad]

You might consider the TC-P50S60. It doesn't have the frills of the ST or higher models but you're still getting a new Panny plasma and it has acceptable input lag.

 

[undercoverb0ss]

This is a question I've been having too.

What type of games do you play? Any fighting games?

I've been playing mostly Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider and Grid 2.

Fired up Crysis 3 just to drool at the picture quality but didn't play any multiplayer.

I have SF vs Tekken installed but haven't played on the plasma.

 

[Lanbeast]

I recently bought the 60" ST-50 and it's the nicest TV i've ever used. I don't think you'll go wrong with either...

Spoiler

buy the cheaper one and spend the extra dough on beer.

 

[scurker]

I have a GT50 60" from last year and don't notice any significant issues with input lag. There's this thread on AVS specifically discussing ST60 lag. I've been very happy with my tv and it's been great to play games/watch movies on.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I was looking into this too and someone suggested the S60. No 3D but half the input lag. A friend just got the ST60 though and loves it, says he doesn't notice the lag (we both have 3 year old Samsung LCD TVs, so that may be why). So I'm not sure.

I may go 60" ST60 this fall.

 

[Espresso]

I can't comment on the models you're interested in, but I have a 58" Panasonic Viera from 2006 (TH-PX600U) and it doesn't have any noticeable input lag, so I'd imagine that newer models are similar. I have a PS3 and a Super Nintendo hooked up to it, for reference.

 

[rsam87]

I think I may be more sensitive to input lag than others.

My plan is to get the ST60 and return it if I can feel it. The input lag videos on youtube scare me.

 

[JJD]

If Input Lag is your main concern you should try the new Sony 55W900A LED TV.

Reviewers are saying it has just 8ms (that's just half of a frame, pretty much imperceptible to 99% of people) input lag compared to a CRT Input Lag free TV on the standard test (photo), and 20ms input lag on the new, more severe Bodnar test.

On both cases it's still considerably lower than the input lag on the Panny Plasmas and any TV out there released on the last few years. It's a pretty remarkable achievement for a top of the line TV considering how much processing most TVs do nowadays to display images.

I've had a 65 inch VT50 die on me a couple months ago, and now I'm seriously considering buying a that Sony even though I would prefer a bigger screen. It will be my first LED TV, I always had plasmas.

If gaming is not a concern then you can't really go wrong with Panny Plasmas.

 

[tino]

To me it would be mainly a power consumpsion question. If you live in a place that electrisity rate is low then go for the 60"

I have a 50" ST in retrospect I wouldn't get a 60". I don't hold party in my place anyway.

 

[BertramCooper]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

I was originally leaning toward the ST50, but now I think I might be going back toward the ST60. I'm thinking the input lag issue might be a bit overblown, especially considering I only play video games rarely, and most of the games I play probably wouldn't be severely impacted by the input lag.

By all accounts, the ST60 is an absolutely incredible set.

 

[| Praxis |]

I recently bought the 60" ST-50 and it's the nicest TV i've ever used. I don't think you'll go wrong with either...

Spoiler

buy the cheaper one and spend the extra dough on beer.

Same here, amazing picture for the price. My wife was watching Beauty and the Beast on bluray and the picture was incredible. Almost looked 3d (with none of the negatives).

 

[Where's my goat?]

You might consider the TC-P50S60. It doesn't have the frills of the ST or higher models but you're still getting a new Panny plasma and it has acceptable input lag.

I'm using the 42 inch version of this tv and its the best one that I've ever bought.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I just bought a P50S60 the other day...so far I love it.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

If its your first plasma or Panasonic plasma than pretty much any model will be one of the best buys you can make. I say go for the st60 if you have the money for it. St50 is no slouch either if you want to budget.

Fucking love my panny plasma.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

I was originally leaning toward the ST50, but now I think I might be going back toward the ST60. I'm thinking the input lag issue might be a bit overblown, especially considering I only play video games rarely, and most of the games I play probably wouldn't be severely impacted by the input lag.

By all accounts, the ST60 is an absolutely incredible set.

The lag looked negligible, unless you had two TV sets side by side, you will not notice it.

The better picture quality & black levels would be worth it more imo.

 

[xbhaskarx]

I almost bought the ST60, but I had some concerns (lag, glare, etc.), someone on GAF recommended the S64 (only available at Costco and Sam's Club, 65" S64 is $1,299, 50" S64 is $699), so I went with that.
Relevant links:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=63488641&postcount=599

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1470172/p...plasma-1399-99-5-year-warranty-for-only-99-99

 

[Az987]

I bought a 42 inch S60 about a week ago because I got a really good deal at Sears.

It was only $400 and it came with $100 in reward points too.

It looks pretty nice but it's not done being broken in yet so I have the brightness and contrast turned way down.

I'm not sure about input lag because I don't have any games hooked up to it.

 

[SkyMasterson]

I was going to make a thread about this today ha.

I have a 2006 Panasonic Plasma and it's still looks amazing.

I'm actually curious as to what the input lag is for it. I have to imagine the new Panny plasma models can't be worse than a 7 year old model right?

I think I may just get the ST60 as well and see if I notice it.

 

[xbhaskarx]

I'm actually curious as to what the input lag is for it.

I think I may just get the ST60 as well and see if I notice it.

See my comment, the first link has info regarding input lag.

 

[mr stroke]

Definitely the ST60, this years model has better blacks, slimmer bezel and thinner, and biggest is the better IR/Burn in.

 

[BertramCooper]

Is it safe to say that input lag is a bigger deal for competitive online gamers? Because I'm definitely not that. Any gaming I do is almost always single-player offline.

It looks like Amazon is running out of stock of both 50" models. I doubt I'm going to place an order in time. Hopefully they'll replenish it soon.

 

[Mileena]

Why the hell would you pay more for a TV with input lag? Disgusting, go with the ST50 no questions asked. I still love my ST30

 

[BertramCooper]

Why the hell would you pay more for a TV with input lag? Disgusting, go with the ST50 no questions asked. I still love my ST30

Because apparently the picture is holyfuckballsamazing.

 

[mr stroke]

Why the hell would you pay more for a TV with input lag? Disgusting, go with the ST50 no questions asked. I still love my ST30

I would be amazed if anyone would notice input lag on the ST60 outside of super hardcore competitive gamers.

The upgrades to the 13 Panasonic line(better blacks, less IR(huge for gaming!), MUCH improved ascetics, etc..) is a no brainer over the 12 models.

This years ST60 is better than last years top of the line VT50

 

[ShineALight]

I've fairly sensitive to input lag and tend to play a lot of twitchy action games, and after following a guide online, my ST60 hasn't given me any problems. That being said, it is a valid concern for people that play fighters, or competitively. The picture and overall value of the set are amazing, of course.

 

[Ceebs]

Because apparently the picture is holyfuckballsamazing.

I got my 60" ST60 last week. It really lives up to the hype.

Was replacing a 2008 model Panasonic 720p plasma that still looked great compared to all my friend's LCDs, but this is some next level TV stuff here considering the price (ended up getting it for 1350 from Amazon with free shipping and no tax).

 

[Tom Brohanks]

I have an ST50. Mine has broken twice on me, but Panasonic's support has been amazing The first time, they outright replaced it. The second time they came and replaced pretty much every circuit board in the in the thing.

Outside of that, the TV has been great and the picture quality is awesome when viewing true high definition content.

 

[TylerD]

I don't have any input on current Panny plasmas but my 46pz85u that I got in 2008 still looks excellent both picture and cabinet. Glossy black timelessness ftw.

 

[Fantastic Four skin.bmp]

I bought this TV about a week ago. Yep, the picture's amazing! I, too, was poopin' about the threat of input lag, a lot. The good news is that it isn't as bad as I expected it to be, but the bad is that it's definitely there.

I just sat down with Super Mario World, switching between my monitor and the Panny, and this experience has definitely been the worst, so steer clear of old school platformers. New Super Luigi U isn't as noticeable and Darksiders 2 is absolutely fine. That's the extent of my gaming experience on the beast.

If only we could turn off all of the Smart TV crap. We'd surely have the perfect TV.

 

[Ceebs]

I bought this TV about a week ago. Yep, the picture's amazing! I, too, was poopin' about the threat of input lag, a lot. The good news is that it isn't as bad as I expected it to be, but the bad is that it's definitely there.

I just sat down with Super Mario World, switching between my monitor and the Panny, and this experience has definitely been the worst, so steer clear of old school platformers. New Super Luigi U isn't as noticeable and Darksiders 2 is absolutely fine. That's the extent of my gaming experience on the beast.

If only we could turn off all of the Smart TV crap. We'd surely have the perfect TV.

Yeah, I just have mine set to boot to full screen TV and put up with the few seconds the smart bar is at the top.

 

[Fantastic Four skin.bmp]

Yeah, I just have mine set to boot to full screen TV and put up with the few seconds the smart bar is at the top.

The fact that it's intrusive isn't the worst part though. If what the internet says is true, then the reasoning behind the input lag is the CPU being inadequate when having to handle the Smart crap in the background and nothing else. The VT range has a newer, more powerful CPU 'n junk and doesn't suffer from the same issue. Those sets offer very little value when compared to the ST range though.

*Sigh* ...*sigh* I just, I dunno, man. :<

 

[ostrichKing]

Just ordered the 55" VT60...can't wait...I was able to haggle the price down quite a bit with a local retailer and got it for $500 less than almost anywhere else...the lag reports about the ST60 were concerning me, and when I was able to get the VT for so much cheaper (still more expensive) I decided to go all out (well not ZT all out)...

I don't know why they decided not to bring out new GT models in the US like they did in Europe (supposedly they have no lag issues at all and just as good if not better picture than the ST)...

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Is it safe to say that input lag is a bigger deal for competitive online gamers? Because I'm definitely not that. Any gaming I do is almost always single-player offline.

Lag will not be a problem.
There are MUCH more laggier sets out there (particularly Samsung sets).
The new Panasonic is just in the middle of them.
Lag will mostly likely affect quick QTE if anything (do you play Guitar Hero/Rockband?).
Twitch shooters, fighting games, FPS racing games should have no noticeable effect.

Even with competitive online games, your ping/connection/host advantage, the lag on other people's TV sets etc etc factor more than the lag in your own set.

Just a word of warning, try to go to a store & view the set you want to buy physically yourself. There might be something you don't like about it when it ships to you & you'll be stuck with a $1000 TV you have buyers remorse with.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

The ST60 has just insane picture quality for your money, it's ridiculous.

It's like someone at Panasonic goofed and said, "Let's make another high end tv line after the VT but not price it as such!"

It's like they decided to take 2012's reference quality VT50 and essentially make the ST60 like it.

 

[Allforce]

I've been eyeing this 50" S60 for awhile but I have a question. Is it essentially the same as the ST60 only without the 3D and SmartTV features? Or is it a fundamentally lesser TV than the ST series?

 

[Dead]

I've been eyeing this 50" S60 for awhile but I have a question. Is it essentially the same as the ST60 only without the 3D and SmartTV features? Or is it a fundamentally lesser TV than the ST series?

The panel is different. It's a fundamentally worse TV in nearly every way.

 

[Allforce]

Ahh too good to be true! I knew it in my heart of hearts...

 

[Dead]

ST series usually gets you much better blacks, better filtration of light so it will perform better in a brighter room, and motion is improved as well.

don't believe anyone saying it simply costs more because of 3d and stuff lol. Ive seen people post that before here and there.

 

[Ceebs]

Ahh too good to be true! I knew it in my heart of hearts...

The S60 is still a very good TV.

 

[Fatalah]

I bought the ST50 last year after much research. Friends have walked into my living room and immediately commented about the great picture quality.

 

[Fantastic Four skin.bmp]

Is anyone here using picture settings other than True Cinema? Granted, Australian (European) settings will be different than that of those in the U.S, but I'm curious as to whether or not I'm missing out on even more.

 

[bremon]

My roommate bought a 65" ST60 a week or two ago. The thing is amazing. Seriously jealous, and the TV was definitely affordable for the size. Makes me want to toss my Sony out the window and replace it (not quite, but you get the point).

 

[Sojgat]

Last year's model. New ones are trash.