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Index (Atlus) entering into a restructuring bankruptcy; looking to transfer/sell

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NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
captmcblack said:
What are Index/Atlus' franchises?

SMT/Persona is pretty much what they do, right?
Click to expand...

Shin Megami Tensei and all the sub series/spin offs (Persona, Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, Digital Devil Saga), Etrian Odissey, Trauma Center, Code of Princess, Dragon's Crown (These last two were only published by Atlus though, not internally developed, IIRC).
 
C

Caerith

Member
Pennywise said:
Why not ?
Apart from Persona there are so many IPs that would certainly strengthen the Vita portofolio and the userbase.
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I'll answer your question in two parts. First::

wildfire said:
They are $15 million in debt. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
I don't know how factual that figure is, but I know their debt is definitely non-trivial.

And, second:

Take a look at Atlus's IPs. Are they worth $15M?

Consider what would happen if all of Atlus's staff was laid off today, and all got jobs tomorrow at a new company. They make Bearsona (not Persona, but it's the same game Persona 5 was going to be except no Jack Frost because they don't own the IP). They make Metrian Journey (not Etrian Odyssey, and they don't call their fighters landsknechts). They make some Trauma Center clone.

Would you buy these games, even though they're not the same IP?
Just kidding, nobody buys Trauma Center.

Atlus games aren't as dependent on the IP as, like, Mario games would be. You can't make New Super Mario if you lose the rights to Mario. You can make Persona 5 if you lose the rights to Chie.
 
G

Galang

Banned
Nobody competent saving Atlus would personally be the worst thing to happen since I've started playing games.

While I'd be okay with a Sony/Nintendo purchase, that's one shitstorm I actually wouldn't have fun watching. I can already imagine the comments on the Internet everywhere. No way Nintendo buys them though. Look at all the companies they've completely ignored, despite having good relationships with.
 
J

Jamix012

Member
Caerith said:
I'll answer your question in two parts. First::


I don't know how factual that figure is, but I know their debt is definitely non-trivial.

And, second:

Take a look at Atlus's IPs. Are they worth $15M?

Consider what would happen if all of Atlus's staff was laid off today, and all got jobs tomorrow at a new company. They make Bearsona (not Persona, but it's the same game Persona 5 was going to be except no Jack Frost because they don't own the IP). They make Metrian Journey (not Etrian Odyssey, and they don't call their fighters landsknechts). They make some Trauma Center clone.

Would you buy these games, even though they're not the same IP?
Just kidding, nobody buys Trauma Center.

Atlus games aren't as dependent on the IP as, like, Mario games would be. You can't make New Super Mario if you lose the rights to Mario. You can make Persona 5 if you lose the rights to Chie.
Click to expand...

I'm not super clued in, but I figured the reason Nintendo hadn't invested much in western devs is because Japanese dev employees tend not to move companies as much. Heck other than Sakurai I can't think of a big name moving company except out of nessecity (Clover?) Though I'm sure someone will correct.

truly101 said:
Just a hunch but if Sony bought them, I could see them still allowing for 3DS games, even if they would have to do Vita versions too.
Click to expand...

Without trying to offend you, this is crazy talk. At best we'd get some of the games that were too far in development to turn back, but otherwise there's not a hope in hell of seeing 3DS releases under Sony.
 
C

Codeblue

Member
Jamix012 said:
I'm not super clued in, but I figured the reason Nintendo hadn't invested much in western devs is because Japanese dev employees tend not to move companies as much. Heck other than Sakurai I can't think of a big name moving company except out of nessecity (Clover?) Though I'm sure someone will correct.



Without trying to offend you, this is crazy talk. At best we'd get some of the games that were too far in development to turn back, but otherwsie there's not a hope in hell of seeing 3DS releases under Sony.
Click to expand...

There's Inafune and Itagaki who opened their own things.

The only big name that joined a different company that I can think of is Hirokazu Yasuhara, Sonic co-creator that joined Nintendo recently.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
If we're seriously debating what company between Sony and Nintendo would buy them, I'd think the latter would acquire them, because:

Atlus is developing many titles on 3DS, and all of them saw good, if not great, sales in homecountry (and good sales over here too)
Actually, the only Atlus brand not on Nintendo platforms now seems to be Persona (+ Catherine)
There are good possibilities Nintendo is publishing SMTIV in Europe and, above all, they're developing SMT x FE
Nintendo is much more Japanese-centric than Sony right now (Sony didn't even obtain to have FFXV and KH3 as PS4 esclusives, after all. Not that this increases so much Xbox One's chances in Japan, but still), and they already demonstrated they're not so against such operations (Bayonetta 2 it's a niche title after all, and its Japanese sales are around those of many big Atlus releases).

But still, I firmly believe neither of them will buy Atlus. In the case, it wouldn't be Sony.
 
S

Snakeyes

Member
truly101 said:
Just a hunch but if Sony bought them, I could see them still allowing for 3DS games, even if they would have to do Vita versions too.
Click to expand...

Eh, I'm thinking more long term than that. Unless the Vita somehow manages to turn it around, it's unlikely that Sony will make another handheld afterwards, which that all of Atlus' franchises, even the ones that are best on a handheld would become console exclusives or cease to exist altogether.

Likewise, a Nintendo buyout means we probably wouldn't get Persona games that take advantage of powerful console hardware for the foreseeable future.
 
N

nothingxs

Neo Member
I know it'll never happen, but I quietly hope that, somehow, SNK/Playmore winds up with Atlus, since they work together so much already.

The only issue, of course, is that SNK/Playmore is not swimming in cash.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Snakeyes said:
Likewise, a Nintendo buyout means we probably wouldn't get Persona games that take advantage of powerful console hardware for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

You won't see that even without a Nintendo buyout though. They haven't even made a PS3 level Persona or Shin Megami Tensei yet. There's no way they'll jump straight to PS4.
 
Cornbread78

Cornbread78

Member
Snakeyes said:
The Sony/Nintendo fanboys ITT are disgusting. I personally hope Atlus remain multiplatform.
Click to expand...

yeah know, it's funny how this thread about a company going belly up has suddenly become a fanboy console war battlefield all of a sudden between Sony and Nintendo, andthen you have the MS fans popping in to muddy the water even more.... This is a little sad right now....
 
A

AranhaHunter

Banned
Western publishers wouldn't be a factor as Atlus wouldn't really add much to their portfolio.
Nintendo could buy them if the price is right, If the cost is over 1B Yen, I think Nintendo is out. If Nintendo buys them it helps solidify them as the top publisher in Japan with no one even coming close.
Sony could be interested in buying them in order to strengthen their JP output. SCE only has one IP, maybe two, that sells more than SMT and Persona.I can see Sony being aggressive if they want to become a more relevant publisher in Japan and really aggressive if Nintendo shows interest.

We do have to keep in mind that both Sony and Nintendo have no use for Atlus publishing arms.

I think MS is out
Capcom, SE, Konami, Marvelous, etc could all be interested in buying it. I think SE would be the most aggressive one.

Aquamarine said:
qRELWAB.png


頑張れクマ！
You can do it, [Atlus]! ~kuma

ソニーで買ってください！！
Please buy them, Sony!!

きっとうまくいけるクマ！
Surely it can go well! ~kuma
Click to expand...

That pretty much tells me that Sony is out of the hunt and is not interested in buying Atlus.
 
M

marrec

Banned
I apologize if this has already been answered but...

How public is this kind of stuff in Japan? I know with the THQ firesale it was extremely public from beginning to end, we had a pretty reliable timetable of when events would happen and what they would involve, would we get the same if Index were to sell off Atlus and it's related properties?
 
G

Galang

Banned
Mpl90 said:
If we're seriously debating what company between Sony and Nintendo would buy them, I'd think the latter would acquire them, because:

Atlus is developing many titles on 3DS, and all of them saw good, if not great, sales in homecountry (and good sales over here too)
Actually, the only Atlus brand not on Nintendo platforms now seems to be Persona (+ Catherine)
There are good possibilities Nintendo is publishing SMTIV in Europe and, above all, they're developing SMT x FE
Nintendo is much more Japanese-centric than Sony right now (Sony didn't even obtain to have FFXV and KH3 as PS4 esclusives, after all. Not that this increases so much Xbox One's chances in Japan, but still), and they already demonstrated they're not so against such operations (Bayonetta 2 it's a niche title after all, and its Japanese sales are around those of many big Atlus releases).

But still, I firmly believe neither of them will buy Atlus. In the case, it wouldn't be Sony.
Click to expand...

Honestly it would be a smart move for Nintendo, especially since they're generally against hostile buyouts. This allows them to expand without really risking much, but I wouldn't expect such an obvious decision to come from Nintendo.
 
W

wildfire

Banned
Caerith said:
I'll answer your question in two parts. First::


I don't know how factual that figure is, but I know their debt is definitely non-trivial.

And, second:

Take a look at Atlus's IPs. Are they worth $15M?

Consider what would happen if all of Atlus's staff was laid off today, and all got jobs tomorrow at a new company. They make Bearsona (not Persona, but it's the same game Persona 5 was going to be except no Jack Frost because they don't own the IP). They make Metrian Journey (not Etrian Odyssey, and they don't call their fighters landsknechts). They make some Trauma Center clone.

Would you buy these games, even though they're not the same IP?
Just kidding, nobody buys Trauma Center.

Atlus games aren't as dependent on the IP as, like, Mario games would be. You can't make New Super Mario if you lose the rights to Mario. You can make Persona 5 if you lose the rights to Chie.
Click to expand...

I did a quick google search on Index Corp's debt and since April they are under $15 million in debt.

I was just pointing out the smallest hurdle to buying out the company. You are right that Atlus itself is worth more than the debt implies.

The entire company including Atlus is valued around $225 million but to buy up all the existing shares you would only have to spend half of that for complete control.
 
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