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[kinggroin]

i think it's a bad product too, but it's not like the last eight months have been filled with nintendo games and now it's not selling. to the contrary, the only time we see a rise in hardware sales is when there have been games released on the thing. however at this point, games have been pretty damn isolated from one another. there's no momentum to be built by having nsmbu in november, almost nothing until march, lego city undercover and monster hunter, and then only game and wario being the big exclusive between those games and pikmin 3.

as an aside, lego city undercover's probably the only wii u game aside from nsmbu that may have some legitimate legs. it's been consistently selling far better than other wii u games at this point in the us from month-to-month, and rides pretty close to nsmbu's sales. i think that's the only wii u game since launch to have a television commercial too (not including pikmin 3 because we don't have american pikmin 3 numbers yet because the game's not out yet).

I...guess.


I mean, I hate being that guy that says, "Wait for so and so", like some Wii U apologist, but you're right. The ones that are supposed to push this platform to relevancy haven't been released.

Not sure if Pikmin is one of those games, but I feel like it could be the one to at least warm us to the start. Lego City COULD have been that game, but looking in from the outside, it seems like such apathy when it comes to pushing awareness for good software. Doesn't help when nothing of equal quality follows said software.

And maybe this is why I'm having a hard time believing they can turn it around with the upcoming games, since momentum requires a constant. Something I'm not sure I see post Pikmin.

Mario Kart should have been the holiday game, with Mario and Wind Waker the month before, W101 and Donkey Kong before that, preceded by Pikmin/Wii U fit/ and Party.

 

[spekkeh]

As has been asked a few times in this thread already, how is it acceptable for Nintendo to have underestimated these costs when their two competitors experienced the same transition a few years ago? That's poor preparedness and there's simply no excuse for it.

No lesson was learned really, because, if there had been, we wouldn't have seen the exact same-- no, actually, a worse-- result for the WiiU as we saw for the 3DS.

The transition was smoother for those companies though. HD games look very different now than they did at the beginning of the era. Besides, Nintendo thought they could probably get away with simple up-ports as seen with NSMBU, while the third parties would make the console sing in the meantime. Only the third parties got burned even trying to port their games and nobody wanted simple up-ports of their Wii games at such a high price. Well, given their lineup Nintendo still doesn't have seem to have understood the last part.

 

[69wpm]

You realize there are developer conferences every year where this stuff is discussed, right? Nintendo is at these conferences. There have been countless presentations over the years on the rising costs and efforts in HD development.

Development costs as in manpower needed. Nintendo clearly has no money problems, they lack developers. That's what I meant. HD development doesn't start or end with a $$$ budget.

 

[Into]

So you think Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft sit together in a bar, drinking, and discussing the costs of HD development? Right.

You are not addressing his point at all with your made up bar situation in order to discredit his argument.

It has long since 2005/2006 been reported how almost every developer/publisher has had difficulty developing games for HD consoles and how they required more resources.

Do not even entertain the idea that somehow this was unknown and nobody told Nintendo.

 

[fritolay]

Anyone blame EA now for not releasing more games? I know it's a catch 20/20 but still.

 

[cyberheater]

Holy shit 10k for 3 months in the entire Europe.

I'll say it again. That's shipped from Nintendo. Not sold to consumers. Those systems will sit in stock rooms waiting for the WiiU's that are sitting on shelves to sell.

 

[lvlzero]

As has been asked a few times in this thread already, how is it acceptable for Nintendo to have underestimated these costs when their two competitors experienced the same transition a few years ago? That's poor preparedness and there's simply no excuse for it.

No lesson was learned really, because, if there had been, we wouldn't have seen the exact same-- no, actually, a worse-- result for the WiiU as we saw for the 3DS.

Agreed, if Nintendo had learned anything they would have shifted into high gear and focused purely on the wiiu after sales results showed a steady decline - so third month maximum.

What i dont like is, we are going to hear excuse after excuse and "wait for x!" "wait for y!" from the apoligists, then eventually when reality is too glaringly obvious to smother with positives we will get the "its the media\haters fault it died early" when in actual fact the only fault lies with nintendo, and every single wiiu owner who holds off on buying the non-first party titles because theyre waiting months (or years) for "the big guns", stupid management (nintendo) and extremely poor sales to the existing userbase (owners) are to blame, theres no sugar coating it, if the general view of the console, even from one or current nintendo fans is "its doing badly / on the brink", its really only those in denial or hardcore loyalists who are still clinging to the hope that a few quality titles will suddenly change general opinion, but what you have to keep in mind is, once nintendo blow their load with these "big guns", just how long are fans going to be waiting while they reload?

 

[BGBW]

A naughty one

Surely that is the preferable option.

 

[Petrae]

So you think Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft sit together in a bar, drinking, and discussing the costs of HD development? Right.

Come on. As if direct competition are the only companies to go through the HD transition. Nintendo's third-party partners did, too. It's inept management, starting at the top. If every other company but yours engaged in the HD transition and you had no idea how it worked or how complex and costly it is, then the finger of blame is on you.

Nintendo decided, as a company, to live in a bubble and deal with the HD transition when the time eventually came, rather than being proactive and observing other companies. That time did come, nobody was prepared, and as a result? WiiU is set to be dead last this gen, even before its competition hits the market.

 

[DragonSworne]

Release a black 3ds and a white 3ds in NA and sales will skyrocket

I know so many people who refuse to buy a 3ds because of the hideous colors.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Stuff

Agreed 100%, however the fact that they have released pertty much NOTHING since launch would have surely left some bad blood with retailers who would now, surely, think twice about re-stocking WiiU when the big games come out. Plus the Xbone/PS4 being launched this winter will take away a LOT of attention they would otherwise have had with Mario Kart etc. I can't see a way out for them.

 

[Skull Leader]

Anyone blame EA now for not releasing more games? I know it's a catch 20/20 but still.

What reason do they have to support the Wii more?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

With numbers like these, you'd think they were doing local market tests. I thought that shit ended with the Genesis.

Oh wait.....

 

[GrizzledGrump]

WiiU is a narrowly focused game console that seems to be aimed at Nintendo fans--a niche market. Kind of like a Ferrari. So if you look at it in that light, it's a successful console. Ferrari's are an enthusiast vehicle. Wii U is a Nintendo enthusiast console.

Guys, I'm trying to be positive here.

 

[Petrae]

The transition was smoother for those companies though. HD games look very different now than they did at the beginning of the era. Besides, Nintendo thought they could probably get away with simple up-ports as seen with NSMBU, while the third parties would make the console sing in the meantime. Only the third parties got burned even trying to port their games and nobody wanted simple up-ports of their Wii games at such a high price. Well, given their lineup Nintendo still doesn't have seem to have understood the last part.

Fair counter. My position is that someone at Nintendo should have been observing what's going on... asking third-party partners over the course of the last generation about the transition and trying to get its ducks in a row rather than just going on a wing and a prayer as they did.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

i think it's a bad product too, but it's not like the last eight months have been filled with nintendo games and now it's not selling. to the contrary, the only time we see a rise in hardware sales is when there have been games released on the thing. however at this point, games have been pretty damn isolated from one another. there's no momentum to be built by having nsmbu in november, almost nothing until march, lego city undercover and monster hunter, and then only game and wario being the big exclusive between those games and pikmin 3.

as an aside, lego city undercover's probably the only wii u game aside from nsmbu that may have some legitimate legs. it's been consistently selling far better than other wii u games at this point in the us from month-to-month, and rides pretty close to nsmbu's sales. i think that's the only wii u game since launch to have a television commercial too (not including pikmin 3 because we don't have american pikmin 3 numbers yet because the game's not out yet).

I've been spotting Pikmin 3 commercials on Cartoon Network recently, just sayin'.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Development costs as in manpower needed. Nintendo clearly has no money problems, they lack developers. That's what I meant. HD development doesn't start or end with a $$$ budget.

The better argument is that understanding something on a theoretical level is often different from actually rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. You are offering very poorly conceived excuses here to explain why it's justifiable for Nintendo to have been blind-sided, where I would argue that the only justification is just that perhaps the growing pains are part of the process and are difficult to plan for without the proper experience to draw from.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I agree. If Nintendo kills WiiU after only a couple of years, it kills confidence from the consumers who bought one. The company's reputation takes a hit, and people will have a propensity to wait awhile to see if Nintendo does better first before spending the money.

It happened with SEGA after the 32X and Saturn debacles. Granted, that was a tougher situation given SEGA's money problems (that Nintendo doesn't have), but SEGA's reputation as a hardware company had taken a hit. That's not what Nintendo wants.

I'd actually say there's been some impact on Nintendo with regard to early adopters due to the very rapid price cut of the 3DS.

10,000 across all of Europe? Holy shit.

Price drop incoming.

If anything it's indicative of a lack of official price changes. If there was going to be one, presumably Nintendo would have informed their retail partners to instil confidence and they'd presumably be ordering more Wii Us.

it puts it more into perspective to us how crazy their original sales plan was, but nintendo would have known this entire time when their releasing titles were going to hit and how the market was probably going to react to them. they do this stuff for a living, they aren't looking at it month by month. they're easily looking 2-3 years into the future at any time with their predictions. this low quarter should've been easily predictable. it's going to take actual underperforming software to cause reforecasts

The forecast is absurd. There is no "if" or "but" to it. It was absurd 3 months ago, it remains absurd now. That they haven't revised their forecast is ridiculous.

They will not ship 9M Wii Us in the fiscal year nor 34M units of software.

People are acting like it's Nintendo's fault they aren't receiving the amount of 3rd party games they should be.

"Should be." I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to even mean.

 

[Trojita]

So you think Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft sit together in a bar, drinking, and discussing the costs of HD development? Right.

Are you delusional?

 

[Y2Kev]

I think games will help but not change the order of things. This is not an appealing product.

 

[Recall]

Anyone blame EA now for not releasing more games? I know it's a catch 20/20 but still.

Hindsight is 20/20 and that ain't no catch 22.

 

[Manmademan]

Agreed 100%, however the fact that they have released pertty much NOTHING since launch would have surely left some bad blood with retailers who would now, surely, think twice about re-stocking WiiU when the big games come out. Plus the Xbone/PS4 being launched this winter will take away a LOT of attention they would otherwise have had with Mario Kart etc. I can't see a way out for them.

Yep. it's finished. Nintendo doesn't have the resources to compete with the PS4 AND the Xbone launching this year.

Multibillion dollar ad campaigns aside, retailers and game publications will do all the work for Sony and Microsoft. The WiiU will have zero coverage at all, except the occasional note about how dead or last gen it is in comparison to the new consoles.

Things MIGHT calm down in january/february, but by then Nintendo misses out on the entire holiday season. This system can't survive another year selling absolutely nothing to wait for holiday 2014- retailers will yank it from shelves so fast there will be sonic booms.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Man, and those are shipped numbers too. No actual hard sell through. Weren't they also taking back the lesser SKUs at some point as well? Does that somehow affect a shipped number, like a negative shipment?

 

[AniHawk]

I...guess.


I mean, I hate being that guy that says, "Wait for so and so", like some Wii U apologist, but you're right. The ones that are supposed to push this platform to relevancy haven't been released.

Not sure if Pikmin is one of those games, but I feel like it could be the one to at least warm us to the start. Lego City COULD have been that game, but looking in from the outside, it seems like such apathy when it comes to pushing awareness for good software. Doesn't help when nothing of equal quality follows said software.

And maybe this is why I'm having a hard time believing they can turn it around with the upcoming games, since momentum requires a constant. Something I'm not sure I see post Pikmin.

Mario Kart should have been the holiday game, with Mario and Wind Waker the month before, W101 and Donkey Kong before that, preceded by Pikmin/Wii U fit/ and Party.

i don't think the wii u will perform a whole lot better than the dreamcast/saturn at this point, but i think it's going to start doing better than it has been. the last few months aren't much of an indication of what the system does when it has appealing software.

i think that new super luigi u's retail release is a good small link between pikmin 3 and wonderful 101. if nintendo's serious about this year of luigi bullshit, they'll get the game on tv. a constant string of 'here is a game for the wii u' is what's needed, and having a more recognizable name in there would be a big help.

i agree with you on mario kart 8, but the game probably wasn't ready in time. they're probably just struggling to meet the end of the fiscal year for the title, and that might not even be a lock. i think it's the end of their momentum run though- and from the looks of it, there's going to be a gap between december and whenever mario kart hits, unless yoshi or bayonetta somehow slots in there.

 

[Nicktendo86]

WiiU is a narrowly focused game console that seems to be aimed at Nintendo fans--a niche market. Kind of like a Ferrari. So if you look at it in that light, it's a successful console. Ferrari's are an enthusiast vehicle. Wii U is a Nintendo enthusiast console.

Guys, I'm trying to be positive here.

Well done with the positive spin but even I, a former rabid Nintendo fanboy, have given up now. I just can't see a way out that doesn't mean they go third party.

 

[DJwest]

They can rebuild it, they have the technology

Lol, what technology ?

 

[MikeE21286]

Disaster comes to mind. Wow. Never seen anything like that.

What was the Dreamcast doing near the time it was discontinued?

 

[GodofWine]

Anyone blame EA now for not releasing more games? I know it's a catch 20/20 but still.

No. No one wants a WiiU, its not game related, its WiiU related.

PS4 / XB1 will catch, pass, and crush it before they have any semblance of a game lineup, people want them...Nintendo just had their head in the sand about what people wanted due to the fad that was the Wii.

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

I think games will help but not change the order of things. This is not an appealing product.

I think the same.

The product itself is the problem, not the lack of games.

 

[Raist]

How did Nintendo go from SNES with its massive 3rd party support to the disaster that Wii u has become???

This has to be one of the worst managed companies ever.
The list of mistakes by the BOD is ridiculous.

Sony happened.

 

[DragonSworne]

WiiU is a narrowly focused game console that seems to be aimed at Nintendo fans--a niche market. Kind of like a Ferrari. So if you look at it in that light, it's a successful console. Ferrari's are an enthusiast vehicle. Wii U is a Nintendo enthusiast console.

Guys, I'm trying to be positive here.

Going with the analogy, buying the Wii U is like buying a Ferrari and finding out it performs like Nissan versa.

 

[KennyLinder]

Yep. it's finished. Nintendo doesn't have the resources to compete with the PS4 AND the Xbone launching this year.

Multibillion dollar ad campaigns aside, retailers and game publications will do all the work for Sony and Microsoft. The WiiU will have zero coverage at all, except the occasional note about how dead or last gen it is in comparison to the new consoles.

Things MIGHT calm down in january/february, but by then Nintendo misses out on the entire holiday season. This system can't survive another year selling absolutely nothing to wait for holiday 2014- retailers will yank it from shelves so fast there will be sonic booms.

Yep. 2014 and its done. Retailers will pull it, Nintendo will kill it.

 

[lvlzero]

Guys just you wait and see, Half Life 3 will boost PC sales insanely

 

[Nicktendo86]

Going with the analogy, buying the Wii U is like buying a Ferrari and finding out it performs like Nissan versa.

Ouch

 

[fastford58]

This is dire.

I really can't see any other major releases causing a shift in sales enough to save it, either. Even large releases like CoD are not going to help that much. CoD just has a larger base of online players on other consoles.

Coupled with the release of next gen systems which are going to make the wii-u suddenly very poorly priced and way under powered.

Seriously. $350 for a current gen system with only 32gb and a spotty catalogue at best? PS4 coming in at 500gb and only $50 more? Only the most hardcore Ninty fans would choose a wii-u over a next gen system, and I think the hardcore nintendo base is going extinct.

 

[kinggroin]

The transition was smoother for those companies though. HD games look very different now than they did at the beginning of the era. Besides, Nintendo thought they could probably get away with simple up-ports as seen with NSMBU, while the third parties would make the console sing in the meantime. Only the third parties got burned even trying to port their games and nobody wanted simple up-ports of their Wii games at such a high price. Well, given their lineup Nintendo still doesn't have seem to have understood the last part.

For as much as Nintendo is fucking up here, lets at least as a game community, be genuine with the situation. The problem doesn't need hyperbole when its already this bad.

 

[potam]

Going with the analogy, buying the Wii U is like buying a Ferrari and finding out it performs like Nissan versa.

Or a Nissan Leaf with only a 2 hour battery life.

The better argument is that understanding something on a theoretical level is often different from actually rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. You are offering very poorly conceived excuses here to explain why it's justifiable for Nintendo to have been blind-sided, where I would argue that the only justification is just that perhaps the growing pains are part of the process and are difficult to plan for without the proper experience to draw from.

I don't see that as any valid justification. At the very least, they should have had one of their myriad teams tucked away somewhere, working/practicing HD development. Hell, bring in outside talent for consultation. They should have had a playbook ready when HD development began in earnest. In business, there are very few valid excuses; failing to adapt to new technology when your company is already 5+ years behind the curve already is absolutely indefensible.

 

[Manmademan]

How did Nintendo go from SNES with its massive 3rd party support to the disaster that Wii u has become???

Third parties supported the SNES because nintendo had a monopoly in the 8 bit era, only SEGA competing with it in the 16 bit era- and even then only in the US. JP and EU were heavily Nintendo territories.

Nintendo's horrendous third party relations that started with the NES eventually bit them in the ass when Sony released a viable console, third parties fled to the Playstation platform and have been there ever since.

 

[Skull Leader]

Guys just you wait and see, Half Life 3 will boost PC sales insanely

Aren't PC game sales better than what the Wii U is pulling atm?

 

[Plinko]

Nintendo is so incredibly stupid for not getting Mario Kart out this Christmas. Ugh.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Third party Nintendo is at least 12-15 years away. It'll take around about another one and half new Nintendo handheld generations and whatever developments in wearable tech, smartphones, and tablets eat into their space until they're left with no choice.

Maybe they can double down, make the hybrid, lock in that mandatory every family Nintendo experience purchase, but they are going to need to become ultra competitive in the next five years and abolish all their slow moving legacy of retardation in multiple areas to do so. I think they can do it, one device with all the Nintendo hits is a lucrative thing after all, but they can't dilute attention to their dying home console market. Theres no argument to be made against that when you track shit from the NES all the way down and down to where they currently are.

I get what you're trying to say, but you've conveniently ignored the Wii in all of this. The Wii-personal opinions notwithstanding-that system reversed Nintendo's downward sales momentum in home consoles in a big way. But it was successful b/c it caught on to new tech that hadn't already worn out its welcome in other markets like smartphones and tablets.

I still think Nintendo can last in the console business, like you, but IMHO they need to really start pushing into an innovative tech like VR, wearable tech, or what have you, and do so BEFORE it reaches market saturation. Something they've failed to do w/ Wii U and it's "been there, done that" Gamepad.



If I can't have her, no-one can! Console wars fill some very weird parts of peoples emotions and arrested development. Making a clean cut from childhood nostalgia for a corporation that doesn't know or care you exist is advisable to all or things get weird.[/QUOTE]

 

[Petrae]

I would argue that the only justification is just that perhaps the growing pains are part of the process and are difficult to plan for without the proper experience to draw from.

That's a fair point as well. It's possible that you just can't prepare unless you're actually into it yourself, neck-deep. I'd like to think that you'd be able to pick up some pointers and have a general idea just by observing and gathering information, but I admit that's a hunch and quite possibly not at all accurate.

Thanks for making the point.

 

[Manmademan]

I get what you're trying to say, but you've conveniently ignored the Wii in all of this. The Wii-personal opinions notwithstanding-that system reversed Nintendo's downward sales momentum in home consoles in a big way. But it was successful b/c it caught on to new tech that hadn't already worn out its welcome in other markets like smartphones and tablets.

I still think Nintendo can last in the console business, like you, but IMHO they need to really start pushing into an innovative tech like VR, wearable tech, or what have you, and do so BEFORE it reaches market saturation. Something they've failed to do w/ Wii U and it's "been there, done that" Gamepad.



If I can't have her, no-one can! Console wars fill some very weird parts of peoples emotions and arrested development. Making a clean cut from childhood nostalgia for a corporation that doesn't know or care you exist is advisable to all or things get weird.

"more gimmicks" is not what nintendo needs. They already have the stench of "gimmick platform" after the wii and wiiU.

a VR helmet won't help things.

Nintendo is so incredibly stupid for not getting Mario Kart out this Christmas. Ugh.

Nintendo has no way of even letting casuals know mario kart is launching this christmas. they're going to get swamped by next gen advertising. nothing is going to sell.

 

[maverick40]

Guys just you wait and see, Half Life 3 will boost PC sales insanely

That game is going to be multiplatform anyways so no it won't.

 

[Plinko]

"more gimmicks" is not what nintendo needs. They already have the stench of "gimmick platform" after the wii and wiiU.

a VR helmet won't help things.

I kind of disagree here.

The Wii caught fire because it offered the mass market a brand new way to play with the motion control.

If Nintendo was able to include a VR headset like Oculus Rift with their console and be the first to do it to the mass market, it could really be another Wii-situation. Hardcore gamers are always going to stick with the more powerful console and those purchases will always be there. Getting the mass market is what these companies really need to focus on.

That said, I don't think they'll do it and I think they're MUCH more likely to go with the console/handheld hybrid.

 

[69wpm]

Are you delusional?

Wanted to make a Kamiya joke, but not risking a ban for you.

The better argument is that understanding something on a theoretical level is often different from actually rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. You are offering very poorly conceived excuses here to explain why it's justifiable for Nintendo to have been blind-sided, where I would argue that the only justification is just that perhaps the growing pains are part of the process and are difficult to plan for without the proper experience to draw from.

I'll start with this bit of information from Miyamoto:

“When it comes to the scale of software development, Wii U with HD graphics requires about twice the human resources than before.”

“We may have underestimated the scale of this change and as a result, the overall software development took more time than originally anticipated just as we tried to polish the software at the completion phase of development… “We are almost out of this phase, and we are also trying to create something unique utilizing an easier development approach called ‘Nintendo Web Framework."

As many may or may not know, Nintendo is not simply shitting out games. You can see what happened to Pikmin 3. It was delayed because it didn't quite meet the quality they expected from it. As Miyamoto said himself, they didn't expect to need that many people to polish a game. Now, I don't want to say Sony and Microsoft produce inferior games, but some of them certainly lack the polish Nintendo puts into the games. Feel free to disagree, that's enough for me today. This is going way off topic.

 

[slightconfuse]

This is approaching dream cast tier.

Nintendo has trap what is sowed .

 

[Mononoke]

I mean realistically what does Nintendo do here? I mean lets say Wii U doesn't recover and it never sees a significant rise in sales. Do they just ride out this generation like they did with GameCube? Surely they can't start working on a new console.

 

[Aquamarine]

Where can I look for accurate sales numbers to compare the WiiU against the PS3/PSV/GC/3DS' first year? And Dreamcast for bonus points.

This is a comparison of shipment numbers for the first three quarters:

Wii U Shipments:
Q3 2013 - 3.06 million LTD
Q4 2013 - 3.45 million LTD
Q1 2014 (June 2013) - 3.61 million LTD

PS3 Shipments:
Q3 2007 - 1.7 million LTD
Q4 2007 - 3.5 million LTD
Q1 2008 (June 2007) - 4.2 million LTD

PSV Shipments:
Q3 2012
Q4 2012
Q1 2013 (June 2012) - 2.2 million LTD

GameCube Shipments:
Q2 2002 - 0.51 million LTD (release in Japan only)
Q3 2002
Q4 2002 (March 2002) - 3.80 million LTD

3DS Shipments:
Q4 2011 - 3.61 million LTD
Q1 2012 - 4.32 million LTD
Q2 2012 (September 2011) - 6.68 million LTD

Dreamcast Shipments:
Q3 1998
Q4 1998 - 0.9 million LTD (release in Japan only)
Q1 1999 - >1.0 million LTD (release in Japan only)


Mind you, Wii U had a decent launch, but its numbers are ridiculously frontloaded. Shipments are dead post-launch except to re-supply the tiny amount of stock that actually sold-through.

If Aquamarine reads your post, i am sure she (i think its a she) will hook you up with the numbers, very good at that.

From my understanding it is doing around 4x worse than even the PS3 did during its dark ages of Spiderman 3 font and grill like appearance

Yes I am a girl. :-(

But thanks for the compliment. You're so sweet!

Sell-through comparison is a completely different ballgame. Generally speaking, the Dreamcast, PS3, 3DS, and pretty much every other major system released by the Big 3 in the past decade are outperforming the Wii U post-launch numbers.

Wii U momentum will be dead until the fall.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

WiiU is a narrowly focused game console that seems to be aimed at Nintendo fans--a niche market. Kind of like a Ferrari. So if you look at it in that light, it's a successful console. Ferrari's are an enthusiast vehicle. Wii U is a Nintendo enthusiast console.

Guys, I'm trying to be positive here.

That only works if Nintendo is making CRAZY profit on all Wii U hardware sales. I think the system's selling for a loss now, right?