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[USC-fan]

FYI, if wikipedia is to be believed, the RSX is only 176 GFLOPS, compared to the 240 of the 360.

X360 is 216 gflop. The pr number of 240 is not correct

 

[ConteZero76]

It's not the 90s anymore. Hibernating to flash is perfectly reasonable. So is storing the firmware itself on the flash, which is what the PS3 did until they ran out of room.

Hibernate 8GB DDR3 to 8GB FLASH is a bloodbath because trim doesn't help at all.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Just notice that the Xbox One GPU is a DirectX 11.1+ GPU & the PS4 GPU is DirectX 11.2+ GPU is there any info out about the difference between a DX11.1 & DX11.2 GPU?

The extra .1 is hUMA, of course.

 

[Piggus]

The differences for third party games will be minimal. But that's due more to the politics of ensuring parity for the consumers.

I think first party titles will start to show pretty soon. The increase in GPU alone will do that.

If the power is there, third party devs will use it. I don't expect them to dive deep into the compute resources of the PS4 GPU like first parties will do, but the 40%+ raw power advantage will show. Third parties won't gimp their games on PS4 just to appease Lord Microsoft. Keep in mind that they are not simply competing against themselves. It's in their best interest to make their games look as good as their budget allows as to not appear vastly inferior to first party titles or even other third party games.

 

[twobear]

Tub King Cerny was showing that the way MS went was bad; they were going to go that route, but decided a better one.

That's the description of the two possible architectures of PS4 that Sony could produce. They opted not to go with 1 terabyte/sec architecture because developers asked for simplicity.

The point he's making is that when Cerny talked about the hypothetical alternative, he added the bandwidth numbers together.

 

[bigboss370]

Wow, now that's some revisionist history!

not really, the 8GB GDDR5 megaton took everyone by surprise.

 

[cyberheater]

Fair enough. I don't think it has been officially confirmed, but what I can tell you is that the PS4 APU customization (Garlic/Onion) fulfills the criteria for supporting hUMA. As for the Xbox One, the eSRAM pretty much guarantees the impossibility of hUMA.

I can see how you can still use hUMA type memory systems and still use eSRAM.

 

[level_e11even]

Right, but how will that translate into games? You can day all of the above between a 660ti vs a 680, but I'm sure even years down the road both PC gamers will be content with their games and will want to upgrade around the same time.

Funny thing is, in all the areas the PS4 is superior to the Xbox One pretty much indicate the better longevity of the console. In layman's terms, the PS4 is geared for superior long-term gain when compared to the Xbox One. So even on that front it has an advantage. You won't see that advantage in year 1 or 2, but year 3 might be a different story.

 

[ypo]

The point he's making is that when Cerny talked about the hypothetical alternative, he added the bandwidth numbers together.

It was a PR move to discredit MS's number. It's a fight bullshit with bullshit kind of thing.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

PS4: Hashirama when he was alive
Xbox One: Edo Tobirama
Wii U: Suigetsu

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[IN&OUT]

The differences for third party games will be minimal. But that's due more to the politics of ensuring parity for the consumers.

I think first party titles will start to show pretty soon. The increase in GPU alone will do that.

Dude, consoles are not even out and PS4 multiplat is pulling ahead already, see NFSR thread.

 

[cyberheater]

If the power is there, third party devs will use it. I don't expect them to dive deep into the compute resources of the PS4 GPU like first parties will do, but the 40%+ raw power advantage will show. Third parties won't gimp their games on PS4 just to appease Lord Microsoft. Keep in mind that they are not simply competing against themselves. It's in their best interest to make their games look as good as their budget allows as to not appear vastly inferior to first party titles or even other third party games.

No. It's in their best interests to keep customers happy and platform parity is one way to do that.

 

[badcrumble]

No. It's in their best interests to keep customers happy and platform parity is one way to do that.

As I've said before, this didn't happen during the PS3/360 generation, which, if anything, is proof that it won't happen this time either.

 

[shandy706]

not really, the 8GB GDDR5 megaton took everyone by surprise.

Weren't we all hoping for 2TF+?

I was...on both consoles.

 

[coldfoot]

No. It's in their best interests to keep customers happy and platform parity is one way to do that.

Didn't happen like that with the PS3/360. Nope, at the VERY LEAST, the extra GPU power will prevent slowdowns and framerate dips on high action scenes on the PS4, assuming games are GPU limited.
Remember PS4 games are competing with other PS4 games.

 

[johnny956]

No. It's in their best interests to keep customers happy and platform parity is one way to do that.

That hasn't been the case with the 360/PS3 and even the Xbox/PS2. Not all, but many multiplats performed better on one then the other. Saints Row IV just came out and the differences are noticeable between the two.

edit: coldfoot just beat me to it but I feel the difference will be more noticable this coming gen. Especially with the similarities to PC, many developers will code to PC and then optimize for each accordingly.

 

[level_e11even]

I can see how you can still use hUMA type memory systems and still use eSRAM.

Theoretically there's a chance, but the result would be of little consequence. The eSRAM is for the graphics shading pipeline only. An example:

If the eSRAM is shared between CPU and the GPU, the situation gets worse when CPU and GPU are fighting for that 32 MB of "last-level cache", so a fight ensues between a CPU-intensive snapping app and the game on that eSRAM block, then you get something akin to cache thrashing, and an unresponsive system.

True hUMA is supposed to simplify things, the addition of eSRAM is complicating things. So you get low-latency graphics at the expense of the need to manage the eSRAM at all cost.

In (theoretical) layman's terms:

Xbox One: pseudo-hUMA capable
PS4: full-hUMA capable

 

[fi3rypho3nix]

What crazy world did you live in where the internet wasn't widespread in 2000?

That tickled me.

 

[cyberheater]

Dude, consoles are not even out and PS4 multiplat is pulling ahead already, see NFSR thread.

And here is what the executive producer Marcus Nilsson had to say on that very issue.

What we’re seeing with the consoles are actually that they are a little bit more powerful than we thought for a really long time – especially one of them, but I’m not going to tell you which one," Nilsson told VideoGamer.com at Gamescom earlier today.

“And that makes me really happy. But in reality, I think we’re going to have both those consoles pretty much on parity – maybe one sticking up a little bit.

Which proves my point. A marginal difference but it's clear that they are focusing on platform parity to keep customers happy.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Funny thing is, in all the areas the PS4 is superior to the Xbox One pretty much indicate the better longevity of the console. In layman's terms, the PS4 is geared for superior long-term gain when compared to the Xbox One. So even on that front it has an advantage. You won't see that advantage in year 1 or 2, but year 3 might be a different story.

You're vastly overstating the differences between these consoles.

And look! I'm engaging in the console war!

 

[Hana-Bi]

It was a PR move to discredit MS's number. It's a fight bullshit with bullshit kind of thing.

Nope, he said that 1088 GB/s could be used for games in the long run but the devs wanted a simple unified solution which might be weaker but could be used right from the get go.

 

[TheCloser]

I don't believe MS is playing games with that ESRAM bandwidth. Whatever is going on, I don't think it's a simple combining of bandwidths. There's more about the ESRAM that likely has to be explained, because even if you combine every single pathway for bandwidth in the system, you still wouldn't get that number, or you would overshoot it by quite a bit, so there's something else going on, and the closest thing to an explanation that we have is the DF article about spare processing cycles and it being able to read and write simultaneously.

Do you ever get tired? Really its a serious question.

 

[ekim]

Dude, consoles are not even out and PS4 multiplat is pulling ahead already, see NFSR thread.

Was it confirmed that he talked about the PS4 version? I mean... It's obvious but not yet confirmed.

 

[Portugeezer]

Weren't we all hoping for 2TF+?

I was...on both consoles.

Don't remember much FLOPS talk. From what I remember the general feeling was to expect 4GB RAM (some people even saying 2GBs) and mid range PC specs.

Instead we got 8GB's of GDDR5 and better than mid range graphics (unless you want to get all technical, PS4 is pretty high when you look at recommended specs of PC games)

 

[something fishy]

Nothing new here, PS4 is still 50% more powerful w/ tighter memory setup.

There seems a real rush here to remind people of this.

Equally these two combined are still weaker than good gpu but so what.

This was some info and detail about the system, but it seem only the comparison matters to some.

It does have to be said its wierd that ms were happy to go with something so lacking in power though for sure,

 

[IN&OUT]

Weren't we all hoping for 2TF+?

I was...on both consoles.

Well, we got one with almost 2TF, the other is a little above 1TF

 

[level_e11even]

You're vastly overstating the differences between these consoles.

And look! I'm engaging in the console war!

I'm a facts guy. I could care less about console wars. But, the numbers are there, and if you understand them, it's easy to see the potential.

 

[badcrumble]

Which proves my point. A marginal difference but it's clear that they are focusing on platform parity to keep customers happy.

Did you expect them to say "yep, one version's definitely better than the other"?

 

[demolitio]

Was it confirmed that he talked about the PS4 version? I mean... It's obvious but not yet confirmed.

Which NFS Thread was it in? I've been trying to find what you guys are talking about.

 

[velociraptor]

Whats the deal with People saying Sony doesn't have dedicated audio chip?

http://www.gamechup.com/mark-cerny-ps4-contains-a-dedicated-audio-processing-chip/

ugh. Just because a company doesn't shove things down your throat doesn't mean they don't have it.

I don't think it is as feature rich or as powerful as the one in the Xbone.

 

[IN&OUT]

Was it confirmed that he talked about the PS4 version? I mean... It's obvious but not yet confirmed.

Shu tweeted the article. isn't that obvious given what we know?

 

[cyberheater]

If the eSRAM is shared between CPU and the GPU,

I don't think Xbox One devs will do this. I think the eSRAM will be used only by the GPU

In (theoretical) layman's terms:

Xbox One: pseudo-hUMA capable
PS4: full-hUMA capable

Show me where it states that PS4's CPU and GPU can access and allocate anywhere in the systems virtual memory space which is would have to do to be "full-hUMA capable".

 

[Metfanant]

Was it confirmed that he talked about the PS4 version? I mean... It's obvious but not yet confirmed.

no, but Shu retweeted it...not sure why he would retweet something like that if the dev was talking about the Xbone..

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I'm a facts guy. I could care less about console wars. But, the numbers are there, if you understand them, it's easy to see the potential.

Sure, the PS4 is more powerful, but this console longevity theory of your is just plan silly. You're overstating the graphic output of these consoles and the importance of graphics power to a console's lifespan. I mean, do you think 3rd parties will drop support of the XB1 or make games are are unplayable on it?

 

[Canis lupus]

PS4 = PUTIN
Xbone = Merker
Wiiu = Obama

PS4: British Empire
Xbone: Caliphate of Cordoba
WiiU: Principality

 

[Guymelef]

I don't think it is as feature rich or as powerful as the one in the Xbone.

Because...

 

[SEGAvangelist]

no, but Shu retweeted it...not sure why he would retweet something like that if the dev was talking about the Xbone..

He's obviously an Xbox One fan, then.

 

[BigDug13]

No. It's in their best interests to keep customers happy and platform parity is one way to do that.

Why would platform parity keep customers happy? So customers will be happier knowing that they're gimping the more powerful console than they would knowing that they put their best effort into both versions of the game?

If you're buying an XBO and you're enough of a gamer that you're going to be looking at side-by-side comparisons of the multiplats, you're already aware that there is a power difference between the consoles. To those gamers, it actually makes you feel less respect towards the developer when you realize they're intentionally gimping their product. And those gamers that truly care about having the best multiplats aren't buying an XBO for that reason anyway, so why would holding back the better hardware make certain gamers happy?

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I wonder was that 8GB flash a later addition, and how its absence on the PS4 affects the fluidity of the OS and switching apps?

Absence? We have no idea if the PS4 has flash memory or not, don't jump to conclusions.

 

[badcrumble]

Why would platform parity keep customers happy? So customers will be happier knowing that they're gimping the more powerful console than they would knowing that they put their best effort into both versions of the game?

If you're buying an XBO and you're enough of a gamer that you're going to be looking at side-by-side comparisons of the multiplats, you're already aware that there is a power difference between the consoles. To those gamers, it actually makes you feel less respect towards the developer when you realize they're intentionally gimping their product. And those gamers that truly care about having the best multiplats aren't buying an XBO for that reason anyway, so why would holding back the better hardware make certain gamers happy?

Maybe cyberheater means it'd make him happy, and he's generalizing from his own preferences to the broader audience.

 

[ekim]

Shu tweeted the article. isn't that obvious given what we know?

Oh. I didn't know that. I stand corrected then.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

How many PS4's is this?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Do you ever get tired? Really its a serious question.

I don't know, do you? What, no opposing opinions allowed? Serious question.

 

[Crisco]

In all honesty, from a pure spec perspective, both consoles are fine. Sure they are shamed by a modern PC, but that's like comparing a reasonable priced sports coupe to a Ferrari. Their specs are just fine for what they need to do, and for the price, they are both bargains. The PS4 definitely has some more head room which will result in a tangible detail/performance advantage. I think vs PC, the main advantage will be the ability to run at higher resolutions with more AA. In 3 years, we should be seeing 4k gaming becoming standard on PCs.

 

[Sounddeli]

Some of the work traditionally done by the GPU is being done by other custom chips in this unit. Swizzle matrix maths is something the traditional Vertex shader does, if they have put the GPU but still in the pipeline, that gives the actual GPU a little bit more free grunt to do other work.

 

[ConteZero76]

I don't think Xbox One devs will do this. I think the eSRAM will be used only by the GPU



Show me where it states that PS4's CPU and GPU can access and allocate anywhere in the systems virtual memory space which is would have to do to be "full-hUMA capable".

What's the meaning of Onion, Onion+ and Garlic otherwise ?

 

[level_e11even]

I don't think Xbox One devs will do this. I think the eSRAM will be used only by the GPU

That's because eSRAM is for the GPU only. Which would, in effect, not make it truly hUMA capable. Understand?

Show me where it states that PS4's CPU and GPU can access and allocate anywhere in the systems virtual memory space which is would have to do to be "full-hUMA capable".

I don't understand why you insist on me showing things. The APU spec on the PS4 is capable of this, as to whether or not it's going to happen is nothing but a rumor. The point I'm trying to make is that the Xbox One cannot do the same if it wanted. The PS4 could.

 

[cyberheater]

Maybe cyberheater means it'd make him happy, and he's generalizing from his own preferences to the broader audience.

I'll be delighted. I'm getting a PS4.

 

[ConteZero76]

PS4: British Empire
Xbone: Caliphate of Cordoba
WiiU: Principality

PS4 : Petrol
Xbone : Diesel
WiiU : Methane

 

[level_e11even]

Sure, the PS4 is more powerful, but this console longevity theory of your is just plan silly. You're overstating the graphic output of these consoles and the importance of graphics power to a console's lifespan. I mean, do you think 3rd parties will drop support of the XB1 or make games are are unplayable on it?

I didn't mention graphics. So I don't know what you're talking about.