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DC Comics forbids Batwoman's gay marriage, creative team leaves

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Well, this is... stupid. A shame, DC.

http://io9.com/dc-wont-allow-batwomans-gay-marriage-to-be-depicted-1257106266
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47715

The io9 article is coloured by the writers' feelings, the CBR article (bottom one) is just the straight info.


J.H. Williams III and W. Haden Blackman have announced they'll be leaving as the editorial team on Batwoman, citing DC's editorial interference and in particular, the publisher's refusal to allow characters Kate Kane/Batwoman and her partner Gotham City police officer Maggie Sawyer marry each other.

That's right, while Batwoman has proposed to Maggie twice — twice on panel — DC not only refused to let the wedding be depicted on panel, but refused to let them be married at all. "[We] were told emphatically no marriage can result," said Williams on Twitter. He later added it was "was never put to us as being anti-gay marriage." Although how refusing to let people marry — even fictional characters — is not anti-gay marriage is beyond me.

Williams and Blackman will leave the series after issue #26 in December; given that Batwoman is one of DC's best titles — and arguably its best-looking comic period, thanks to Williams' incredible art and panel experimentation — it's a loss readers will feel keenly, even if DC doesn't.

On the other hand, maybe it doesn't matter if the creative team left, given the hassles DC was giving them. Here's a list from Williams' and Blackman's official statement, detailing the editorial interference:

Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.

We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.

Williams and Blackman say they're "heartbroken" to leave the title, and as a big Batwoman fan, I am too. Back in February, I posited that DC's refusal to publicize Kate's proposal to Maggie was an attempt to not give the press another reason to talk about noted homophobe Orson Scott Card's upcoming run on Adventures of Superman. I don't know if DC felt it worked, but given how happy DC was to promote Alan Scott's newfound homosexuality in the New 52 last year, I certainly found the lack of publicity significant.

In the first draft of this article, I though DC was only refusing to allow the wedding to take place on panel, partially because I couldn't comprehend DC would not allow the character to get married. But as Williams' tweet above shows, I was wrong. This is completely insane, and it goes well beyond DC's refusal to publicize an in-universe, homosexual character's proposal to her partner.

Leaving aside why DC would piss off one of their best creative teams, I can't fathom why DC would think this was a good idea, or at least not realize what a horrendously bad idea it is. Perhaps they thought that by never bringing it up they could keep the controversial Card hire from getting back into the spotlight, but surely someone at the company realized that allowing the marriage to take place would be a lot less controversial than refusing to let the marriage take place. Did they really not think it would come out? Who are they trying to please with this decision, other than Orson Scott Card and his ilk? Are they really worried about Card's feelings more than the majority of their readership?

Originally, I asked if DC realized ignoring the problem isn't actually a solution, but instead another part of the problem. Let me amend that: DC clearly has a problem here. And the fact that they don't seem to even realize it has a problem is possibly the biggest problem of all.

At the CBR article, a DC spokesman says the following:

UPDATE 11:53 AM, PDT: A DC Comics spokesperson has contacted CBR News, saying, "As acknowledged by the creators involved, the editorial differences with the writers of 'Batwoman' had nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the character."

The original CBR story:

Citing frustrations with "eleventh-hour" editorial changes, and an apparent prohibition against depicting Kate Kane's marriage to Maggie Sawyer, "Batwoman" writers J.H. Williams III and W. Haden Blackman have announced they'll leave the DC Comics series following December's Issue 26. Williams later said, via Twitter, that this decision will not impact his work on the upcoming "Sandman: Overture" miniseries with writer Neil Gaiman.

"Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series," Williams and Blackman wrote in a statement posted last night on each of their websites. "We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end."

"We’re both heartbroken over leaving," they continue, "but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression."

Williams clarified on Twitter that the editorial stance on the wedding "was never put to us as being anti-gay marriage."

When contacted by CBR News, DC Comics had no comment on the writers' announcement.

The departure of Williams and Blackman is only the latest behind-the-scenes drama for the critically acclaimed series, and for Batwoman, whose reintroduction in summer 2006 as lesbian socialite Kate Kane was met with a hail of mainstream-media coverage, perhaps far more than the publisher had anticipated. A long-rumored "Batwoman" series faced one setback after another until finally, in February 2009, it was confirmed Greg Rucka and Williams would handle the character in an arc of "Detective Comics," timed to coincide with the “death”-induced absence of Batman. Their tenure ended in December 2009, with "Detective" #860, followed by a three-issue arc by Rucka and Jock.

The same month their award-winning “Elegy” storyline ended, Rucka revealed he and Williams would continue the story in "Batwoman." But in April 2010, Rucka announced he was walking away from the character, and from DC Comics. Less than two weeks later, the publisher confirmed it was still committed to "Batwoman," with Williams co-writing with Blackman and sharing art duties with Amy Reeder. After several delays, "Batwoman" finally launched in September 2011; however, Reeder left the series after just three issues, citing "creative differences."

Read Williams and Blackman's full statement below, and check back with CBR for more on this story as it develops.

Dear Batwoman readers -

From the moment DC asked us to write Batwoman — a dream project for both of us — we were committed to the unofficial tagline “No Status Quo.” We felt that the series and characters should always be moving forward, to keep changing and evolving. In order to live up to our mantra and ensure that each arc took Batwoman in new directions, we carefully planned plotlines and story beats for at least the first five arcs well before we ever wrote a single issue. We’ve been executing on that plan ever since, making changes whenever we’ve come up with a better idea, but in general remaining consistent to our core vision.

Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.

We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.

We’re both heartbroken over leaving, but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression.

We are extremely thankful for the opportunity to work on Batwoman. It’s been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of our careers. We’ll always be grateful to everyone who helped us realize 26 issues: Mike Siglain, who brought us onto the project originally; Greg Rucka for inspirationally setting the stage; our amazing artists Amy Reeder, Trevor McCarthy, Pere Perez, Rob Hunter, Walden Wong, Sandu Florea, Richard Friend, Francesco Francavilla, Guy Major, Dave Stewart, and Todd Klein; Larry Ganem, for listening in tough times; and editors Mike Marts, Harvey Richards, Rickey Purdin, and Darren Shan.

And most of all, a huge thank you to everyone who read the book. Hearing your voices, your reactions, your enthusiasm every month was such a joy, so humbling, so rewarding. You guys rock! Because so many of you embraced the series, we were able to complete four arcs, and your passion for Batwoman encouraged us to push ourselves to do our best work with each and every issue.

Thank you for loving Batwoman as much as we do.

Goodbye for now,

Haden & J H
 
Bleeding Cool: JH Williams III Walks Off Batwoman Over DC Not Allowing Her Marriage To Maggie Sawyer (UPDATE)

JH Williams has further clarified;

@andykhouri Not wanting to be inflammatory, only factual- We fought to get them engaged, but were told emphatically no marriage can result.

— J.H. Williams III (@JHWilliamsIII) September 5, 2013

@andykhouri But must clarify- was never put to us as being anti-gay marriage.

— J.H. Williams III (@JHWilliamsIII) September 5, 2013

And DC has also stated:

As acknowledged by the creators involved, the editorial differences with the writers of BATWOMAN (pt 1)

— DC Comics (@DCComics) September 5, 2013

had nothing to do with the character’s sexual orientation. (pt 2)

— DC Comics (@DCComics) September 5, 2013
 

Lucario

Member
It sounds like a lot was changed close to the publishing date, and the gay marriage was just one in a list.

I don't know. It's very possible this was a result of homophobia, but it's also possible the plot point would have made no sense, led to plot holes and logistics issues, etc. I'm inclined to give the DC the benefit of the doubt.

I think it's more likely that the decision was made so the anti gay marriage audience wouldn't be alienated -- which is pretty fucked up -- but I can't get mad at something DC might have done.
 

FoneBone

Member
Ehhh... the real issue here is DC editorial's attitude towards its creators. I don't actually think homophobia is what's going on here.

That said, if this is what it takes to bring mainstream attention towards their abysmal creator relations, it's a good thing.
 

akira28

Member
horrible idea for them to marry. fucking Maggie Sawyer? Really? Send her ass back to Metropolis. What the fuck is this? Why is she still in Gotham anyway? Isn't this "new52"?

And married? Batwoman? Married? What?

For once I agree. Don't let writers just do what they want. You ain't a writer son. Don't get it twisted. You are a sculptor. So act like it.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Going by io9's article, it looks like DC was fine with Batwoman marrying, but NOT with showing he ceremony/said marriage, which is basically the equivalent of "accepting" teh gay, but not being ok with teh gay being shoved into everybody's pious faces.

Also, looking at DC's previous clashes, this reeks.

Shit work all around, DC.
 
horrible idea for them to marry. fucking Maggie Sawyer? Really? Send her ass back to Metropolis. What the fuck is this?

It'd be funny if the editors were just shipping a different pairing and exed it cause they hate this Sawyer chick.

I don't actually read Batwoman. I heard it was good under Rucka.
 
Don't think it's homophobia or anything. Marvel and DC have always been very much against marrying their heroes off. The few that do end up having a spouse die or some break up (retconned away lol)
 
It'd be funny if the editors were just shipping a different pairing and exed it cause they hate this Sawyer chick.

I don't actually read Batwoman. I heard it was good under Rucka.

Current Batwoman has been pretty good. It's the art that really sold it, though, more so than the story. Art has been God tier.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
looking at the monthly sales the batwoman issues seem to be going downhill fast as well less I am reading it wrong.
 
Don't think it's homophobia or anything. Marvel and DC have always been very much against marrying their heroes off. The few that do end up having a spouse die or some break up (retconned away lol)

Can you imagine the reaction if they got married and then one of them died?
 

Vyer

Member
Diiidddiiioooo

I doubt it had anything to do with gay marriage and more to do with DC's terrible editorial decisions. The marriage was a casualty along with the Killer Croc story.
 

akira28

Member
It'd be funny if the editors were just shipping a different pairing and exed it cause they hate this Sawyer chick.

I don't actually read Batwoman. I heard it was good under Rucka.

I wouldn't be against a KatieWall pairing. But oh. Look we have these two lesbians, in the same city no less, they both fight crime! Obviously they should be together...

Is it too much to bring in someone new? Obviously it is, because that would mean effort and story telling space, and god forbid we ask these people to tell new stories!$%$

edit: unless they eloped and it presented matter of factly and they were getting on with things and working together in deep crazy events happening to both of them and it was an obviously doomed to fail kind of heart twister. You don't just get murried like that. You don't affect the long term future of a character and expect it to stick without a long, maybe years long interaction to flesh out the relationship.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I've said my piece about this, but if JH says it wasn't because of homophobia, I have to believe him. He'd definitely be saying so if he felt otherwise.

Even still, it's shit decision for editorial to try to affect changes like this in self-contained books. I get the Killer Croc thing - that character is ancillary to the BW mythos, but not the fractured relationships Kate has fostered that lead to the quick proposal. It would've been awesome to see how the marriage would've developed, but now we know how that part of the story ends and it sucks. Couple that with the creative team's departure and it's just pretty much the end of the book.
 

massoluk

Banned
I don't think it's some anti-gay propaganda. They just don't want some heroes to get married yet.

Come on guys, Richard Grayson and Babs Gordon are still single. You other couples can get back in line.
 

Slayven

Member
Nu Alan Scott got engaged to his boyfriend. Boyfriend days in a train crash 4 pages later. So Batwoman's SO is probably going to die.
 

Pau

Member
It'd be funny if the editors were just shipping a different pairing and exed it cause they hate this Sawyer chick.

I don't actually read Batwoman. I heard it was good under Rucka.
I was gonna jokingly suggest that the editors are Renee/Kate shippers
like me
but no, they're just asses. Since Renee doesn't even exist anymore.
 

Patryn

Member
Don't think it's homophobia or anything. Marvel and DC have always been very much against marrying their heroes off. The few that do end up having a spouse die or some break up (retconned away lol)
I actually think the same thing. Just look at Spider-man. The companies see marriage as "aging" the characters and cutting off avenues for storytelling.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Nu Alan Scott got engaged to his boyfriend. Boyfriend days in a train crash 4 pages later. So Batwoman's SO is probably going to die.

But if characters marry the stories become stale and unrelatable!

...shit given the demographic, perhaps they shouldn't allow any relationships or contact with the opposite sex in comics. Wouldn't want anybody to feel like they couldn't relate.

^$*@%(!
 
I don't think it's anti-gay, just another clusterfuck brought to you by DC editorial. But it will certainly be perceived as such by those who haven't been following along with the New 52 editorial fiasco, which is to say nearly everyone. And that's what gives this particular clusterfuck its unique status this side of firing Gail Simone as something that seems primed to explode in their faces in the worst way.
 

Slime

Banned
Fuck. Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck.

There goes what was my most anticipated comic in forever, one of my current favorites, and one of the only New 52 titles I could tolerate.

Even if it goes on, I have no faith in DC to treat it with the respect it deserves.

Fuck you, DC.
 

Vyer

Member
looking at the monthly sales the batwoman issues seem to be going downhill fast as well less I am reading it wrong.

No, I don't think it's been doing well for a while now. Unfortunately for all the praise for creative it doesn't seem like too many people were actually supporting it.
 
It's not because of gay marriage. DC was the first to depict that in their books:

apollo-midnighter.jpg

It's a nice scandalous headline but DC has been all about Gay Super Heroes since the 90s

grh1-enigmamikaal.jpg

ico122205in2.jpg
 

Thorakai

Member
Well at least Batwoman is still lesbian...right? I don't read comics so I wouldn't know. One thing is that even though the reasoning given to remove the marriage didn't come across as anti-gay marriage it could have still been a conscious decision made to prevent bucking societal status quo. Maybe they figured they'd rather not get involved in the definition of marriage debate and risk losing sales by 'picking' a side. A decision like that wouldn't absolve DC for cutting the marriage.
 
Well at least Batwoman is still lesbian...right? I don't read comics so I wouldn't know. One thing is that even though the reasoning given to remove the marriage didn't come across as anti-gay marriage it could have still been a conscious decision made to prevent bucking societal status quo. Maybe they figured they'd rather not get involved in the definition of marriage debate and risk losing sales by 'picking' a side. A decision like that wouldn't absolve DC for cutting the marriage.

Batwoman was actually introduced as Bi-Sexual but for some reason they changed her to a lesbian later
 

Slayven

Member
Well at least Batwoman is still lesbian...right? I don't read comics so I wouldn't know. One thing is that even though the reasoning given to remove the marriage didn't come across as anti-gay marriage it could have still been a conscious decision made to prevent bucking societal status quo. Maybe they figured they'd rather not get involved in the definition of marriage debate and risk losing sales by 'picking' a side. A decision like that wouldn't absolve DC for cutting the marriage.
Marvel has lesbian bestiality.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It's not because of gay marriage. DC was the first to depict that in their books:
Kind of, but no. DC was ok with having gay characters and maybe a wedding, but they did not want to show said wedding, which smells of faux tolerance.

In any case, it looks like DC was meddling way too much with the writing team, so fuck them anyways.
 
Kind of, but no. DC was ok with having gay characters and maybe a wedding, but they did not want to show said wedding, which smells of faux tolerance.

In any case, it looks like DC was meddling way too much with the writing team, so fuck them anyways.

Uh Im pretty sure they showed the wedding:

Midnighter-and-Apollo.jpg
 

Slayven

Member
Kind of, but no. DC was ok with having gay characters and maybe a wedding, but they did not want to show said wedding, which smells of faux tolerance.

In any case, it looks like DC was meddling way too much with the writing team, so fuck them anyways.

DC has a long history of that.

RIP MCduffie.
 
DC fucked themselves on this one. Williams and Blackman were the main reason I always kept Batwoman on my pull list. I like the character, but I have no hope for the book to be any good from here on. And I was looking forward to a Kate/Maggie wedding. :p
 
Williams' tweets in the first reply were in response to this question: "To clarify, you're not allowed to *show* Kate & Maggie's marriage or they're not allowed to *be* married, full stop?" They didn't want the characters to be married, at all, not just to avoid a wedding issue. At least that's how I interpret his response.
 

Thai

Bane was better.
It's not gay marriage, as just MARRIAGE altogether. DC is anti-marriage for any of its heroes, right now.
 
The story here isn't homophobia, it's DC editorial tending to be very heavy-handed and controlling (with a dose of forced edginess).

Ugh.

I'm about done with mainstream comics.
 
:mad: Renee Montoya 4 lyf


But that marriage was in Wildstorm, not DC proper. This would probably had been a much higher profile book.

Well Wildstorm is part of DC now and I believe all reprints now fall under the DC banner but I guess I kind of see what you mean. I don't think its some conspiracy though especially since Marvel has done it.
 

Sanjuro

Member
I've hated everything about the Batwoman books, sans the artwork initially.

Did it ever become a decent series?
 
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