Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
Your the one who mentioned spec sheets. I even have seen people here on gaf say the X1 ram is not much different then what the 360 used.
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EuroGamer: More details on the BALANCE of XB1
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According to some devs it is very different. EDRAM was apparently automated more whereas the ESRAM has to be managed manually for maximum performance.
PS3 was able to output the most impressive games with uncompressed sound despite not having a dedicated HW for sound. what makes you think that X1 will be better than PS4 in this area?
I wouldn't hold on this audio crap if I were you, don't forget that Sony have been manufacturing Audio chips since 1980s, remember the impressive audio chip for the SNES, it was made by Sony.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
360 had the better GPU and RAM solution, PS3 had the better CPU.
Same architecture = comparing specs makes so much more sense.
Got it?
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
Wait so now it's flipped this gen?
Chobel
Member
You have to be trollin' now....
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
Misread his post. Calm down.
shinra-bansho
Member
It depends entirely on the game and what the developers want to do with regard to audio.
Cross-quoting from the other thread:
An example of Killzone 2's audio. Bolded is my emphasis.
There are presumably games that are more resource intensive for audio. There are presumably games that are less resource intensive.
I don't really know where this idea that there's going to be some sort of next-gen audio revolution and devs are going to devote heaps of processing resources towards it is coming from either...
TurboDonkey
Banned
The retail copies of DC lighting vs Forza lighting comparisons and arguments is going to be the dullest and most embarrassing thing in history.
Its bad enough already!
Just an indirect way to justify lower specs.
CPU doesn't have to do audio, therefore free to take care of more stuff.
It's the exact same argument than "well AI is done on the cloud, therefore that makes up for lower specs".
Uncompressed audio needs the least amount of computing power, having to compress it is more CPU intensive..
FMOD, the quite infamous audio middleware did a press release on how they are working with MS and the SHAPE processor..
http://www.develop-online.net/news/44302/FMOD-Studio-optimised-for-Xbox-One
It's not some amazing golden bullet for sure, but it's sounding like (pun intended) it's a step up from anything used before on consoles..
Of course, the PS4 may have something awesome, but no ones come forward with it yet...
What's funny is the whole rebuttle in this thread about people bringing up audio.. which is ironic considering the thread title.. One definition of balance just could be to put processing resource where it's needed in all areas of the console.. shocking revelation that will no doubt be shot down..
Everyone knows, admits, and is OK with the PS4 being the GPU raw powerhouse that is also designed to be very efficient.. that doesn't mean that MS calling their system 'balanced' is some heinous attack on Sony that needs instant berating and pedantic chastisement of what is normal marketing spin..
Chobel
Member
For now they're not coming to Xbox one. Anyway
I would love to change 80 to 75 if that's OK with you.
Let's start counting!
Can Crusher
Banned
Can't wait for the Xbox One to have the best balanced multiplats.
Because we all know that the Sony SPC700 Sound Processor is what made the SNES the best console of all time!
RedNumberFive
Banned
Ice cold, but fair.
SHAPE was created to handle Kinect commands only. devs has no control over it at all. small part of SHAPE is standard Audio chip for compression and decompression just like PS4, that standard chip is the one will be used for games.
I am actually hoping that somebody points out that with the PS4's higher resolution, faults in textures are easier to notice and so the XB1 version is superior, I just know were going to get something that stupid at some point in November.
phosphor112
Banned
Lmao.
spatenfloot
Member
It would be much more efficient if we just repeatedly cut & paste the first 10 pages for this type of thread.
B_Boss
Member
Sigh....."The Nintendo Playstation"........that would have opened a Pandora's Box of joy untold....
Angelus Errare
Banned
No the audio block was created to handle Kinect, SHAPE is just a small part of that block that's for game audio.
malboroking
Banned
This is silly. People are just making up numbers with no way to back them up. The burden of proof is on him to show that it would take 100-200 GFlops of gpu power to emulate SHAPE. Until he can show some way of proving it, its pure conjecture. It would be like me saying to Background chip on the PS4 is handling video compression/decompression and it would take 100 GFlops from the gpu to emulate it on the One. I'm sure developer will be able to utilize this chip through the API! I have no proof, but I read it on a message board somewhere. People would rightfully ridicule me.
Source?? I've heard different, it certainly has plenty in it for kinect, but a disgruntled ex-employee on B3D (bkillian) seemed to say it was much more then a simple audio processor for games..
And FMOD says specifically it's designed to work with SHAPE..
But if you have a good source to the contrary, I'm fine with that..
It will also handle effects and filtering as well for games.
Also, from FMOD middleware press release:
GameSeeker
Member
ROFL.
it was bkillian himself who said that Kinect is consuming the majority of SHAPE juice, I'll try to find the post related to this.
Thanks to Chobel for providing me with the link
Chobel
Member
usually official product descriptions are full of flashy buzz words, my point is PS4 will be just find knowing Sony history with sound tech. It's not like X1 is magically will bridge the gap just because of SHAPE as some people claim.
Is it impossible to talk about Shape outside of the context of the PS4? No magical bridge seems to be being discussed except by those shooting it down.
My point was that if his statement is conjecture without proof, than your dismissal of his statement is also conjecture without proof. As a 3rd party observer, his statement made me curious about whether his figures are correct and if not, what the correct figures for these features may be.
Chobel
Member
SHAPE is discussed here because some believe it will reduce the gap between PS4 and Xbox One.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Balance. Dat word. It has quickly usurped "the cloud" as my least favorite marketing buzzword. I can't say I'm a huge fan of the thinly-veiled mudslinging Microsoft has resorted to since the Xbox One reveal.
I don't see what's so hard to accept about the Xbox One being less powerful than the PS4. Heinz has to be jealous of how many flavors of secret sauce that the Xbox One has had in the last few months. In every console generation, one console has to be the weaker one. Is it that hard to accept that it may be Microsoft this time around? Specs matter, and no amount of cleverly renamed computer parts is going to change that it was, by Microsoft's own admission, not targeted for the best specs. Being a relatively uninitiated gamer in regards to tech, I generally keep quiet on tech threads, but they are my favorite part of GAF. I love reading different peoples' perspectives on what's in these boxes. What I don't like is when people cling to misty marketing phrases designed to obfuscate, using nebulous terms like "cloud" (see what I did there) and "balance" in an attempt to discredit erudite discussion. Please, if you have a credible reason that the Xbox One bridges the seeming performance gap, I welcome your insight. But I have only contempt for console warriors who refuse to see the writing on the wall because of what one company's PR says about its direct competition.
I'm getting the Xbox One because it has games I want. I'm getting the PS4 because it has games I want. Similarly, I got the Vita for games. And the 3DS. Did it matter to me that the Vita was stronger than the 3DS when I bought it? Nah. Because power isn't everything.
If you're getting a console for power and possible 3rd party game performance, get the PS4. If the Xbox One has the games you want on it, get the Xbox One. If the PS4 has the games you want on it, get the PS4. If you need to justify your purchase, do it in more constructive ways. Tout the actual benefits your console of choice has, rather than grasping at staws to bring down the other.
I don't see what's so hard to accept about the Xbox One being less powerful than the PS4. Heinz has to be jealous of how many flavors of secret sauce that the Xbox One has had in the last few months. In every console generation, one console has to be the weaker one. Is it that hard to accept that it may be Microsoft this time around? Specs matter, and no amount of cleverly renamed computer parts is going to change that it was, by Microsoft's own admission, not targeted for the best specs. Being a relatively uninitiated gamer in regards to tech, I generally keep quiet on tech threads, but they are my favorite part of GAF. I love reading different peoples' perspectives on what's in these boxes. What I don't like is when people cling to misty marketing phrases designed to obfuscate, using nebulous terms like "cloud" (see what I did there) and "balance" in an attempt to discredit erudite discussion. Please, if you have a credible reason that the Xbox One bridges the seeming performance gap, I welcome your insight. But I have only contempt for console warriors who refuse to see the writing on the wall because of what one company's PR says about its direct competition.
I'm getting the Xbox One because it has games I want. I'm getting the PS4 because it has games I want. Similarly, I got the Vita for games. And the 3DS. Did it matter to me that the Vita was stronger than the 3DS when I bought it? Nah. Because power isn't everything.
If you're getting a console for power and possible 3rd party game performance, get the PS4. If the Xbox One has the games you want on it, get the Xbox One. If the PS4 has the games you want on it, get the PS4. If you need to justify your purchase, do it in more constructive ways. Tout the actual benefits your console of choice has, rather than grasping at staws to bring down the other.
Metalmurphy
Member
Didn't know you had a funny side in you Bish.
malboroking
Banned
The whole reason shape was brought up in the first place was because somebody said that the PS4 would have to use 100-200 GFlops to emulate what it does. Many people called bullshit on that and the thread escalated from there. We certainly can talk about Shape outside of the context of the PS4, but the reason people were comparing the two was because that is how the subject was originally presented.
Came across this today. Guess you can apply it to console and spec wars also .... Not everyone and def not a blanket statement but ... i would assume some of the psychology in this does spill to console wars also.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/most-depressing-brain-fin_b_3932273.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/most-depressing-brain-fin_b_3932273.html
SkullHydra
Member
Crap. You're probably right. >_>
It's killing me how we have to have the same freaking discussions every thread until launch (And probably after too). You'd think people would be able to remember the other thousand times the PS3/360 comparison has been brought up and reasoned out...
I am making no statements that relate to PS4 whatsoever.
Not by me it isn't. So don't lump me in with others, thank you very much.
just look at the previous page of this thread. people started championing SHAPE as X1 secret sauce, that's why the discussion deviated to SHAPE vs PS4 Audio processor.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Good source!!!
He also says much about SHAPE..
e.g.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1764829&postcount=220
I think the fact FMOD specifically point out as supporting SHAPE also indicates that it has 'some' gaming benefit..
Chobel
Member
However here we're discussing specs and numbers using math. So I don't think that study apply here.
I have read that viewpoint expressed, reducing the gap, I haven't read a single post that says its going to magically bridge the gap though, that seems like a straw man used to berate a nonexistent fan boy.