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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa

Lock if old.

Wow, it's certainly been a wild and crazy day, with all manner of questions and even accusations floating about concerning our Battlefield 4 coverage. Time to take stock and comprehensively address the queries surrounding our article:

The big question - did Digital Foundry botch its Battlefield 4 captures?

We've now examined Xbox One and PlayStation 4 game and UI/dashboard elements and have concluded that the equipment did exactly what was asked of it - it acquired digital video in a mathematically lossless format at 1080p60, in the full range RGB (0-255) colourspace. Dashboards and control panels were all set accordingly to match the requirements of the equipment. We're now satisfied that the captures on PS4 and PC are exactly as they should be - digitally lossless transmissions of what came out of the hardware.

So what's going on with Xbox One?

Xbox One was also acquired at full range 0-255 RGB with the dash set accordingly, in line with the other versions - exactly how we approach every Face-Off. We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output that are not present on either PC or PS4. We asked DICE for comment and were told that they are "investigating the video output range and settings for Xbox One".

Is this the result of you processing the footage to make it look better compared to PlayStation 4?

Um, you don't make a game look better by crushing subtle detail. The lowering of dynamic range like this physically can't make a game look better - it can only look worse. The only regret here is that the drive for the best possible assets has resulted in captures that do not fully represent how DICE wants the game to be played.

Why isn't anyone else's footage from the same event showing the crushed blacks?

EA provided Elgato Game Capture HD consumer-level devices at the Stockholm event. They're great little units but they are unsuitable for DF work because they cannot acquire 1080p at 60 frames per second and they do not provide lossless video. The reason they do not show crushed blacks on Xbox One is because they operate at limited range RGB (16-235) and the XO dashes were set accordingly. We are told that the current Xbox One appears to be fine operating in limited range RGB, so this is a good match for the unit. We also know that both PS4 and XO hardware at the EA event was set by default to limited range RGB, so other attendees were good to go straight off the bat while we had to make changes to suit our more specialised equipment.

Does the Xbox One issue change any of your observations about Battlefield 4?

No, though we would like to see how the apparent sharpening of detail looks in the proper colourspace. The only change - which we have made already - is the comment from DICE's Johan Andersson that ambient occlusion (missing in the XO review build we tested) will be present in the game you play at launch, using the same algorithm as the PS4 and PC versions.

Did a Digital Foundry employee admit that you botched the captures?

New freelancer John Linneman made comments online suggesting that the workflow was in error and that there wasn't time to correct it. We love John, but he wasn't privy to the workflow of last week's events, nor involved in any of the internal discussions we had. While his heart was in the right place, his post doesn't accurately reflect the facts as they stand and they are certainly not official comment from Digital Foundry.

If you are sitting on 3TB of 1080p60 video, will we see any of it?

Yes.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Feel sorry for John

Can't feel good to be thrown under the bus

 

[Massa]

They screwed up when capturing the footage and double down on their mistake by not even mentioning the problem in the original article.

 

[JB1981]

Can't wait for the 1080p video. LOL @ people claiming in the other thread that Leadbetter botched the capture process on purpose in an attempt to make Xbone look better.

 

[teiresias]

So it was impossible for them to do an immediate captured footage review and realize the colourspace was all messed up in the Xbone footage? That's not the kind of behavior from what is supposed to be the "premiere" site to go to for game platform comparisons. They should be able to tell when black crush is happening in their captures.

So on one hand we're being told everyone used provided capture equipment and controlled consoles for this event, and on the other we're told that DF got permission to use their own equipment (that captures full-range RGB) AND play around with the colorspace setting in the dashboard (to set full-range RGB) - that no one thought to tell them was completely broken on Xbone (so it was actually NOT outputting full-range RGB and hence the black crush)?

Make up your minds.

 

[PotionBleue]

current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output

Hardware??
Meaning can't be fixed with firmware update? Or is it just bad wording?

So it was impossible for them to do an immediate captured footage review and realize the colourspace was all messed up in the Xbone footage? That's not the kind of behavior from what is supposed to be the "premiere" site to go to for game platform comparisons. They should be able to tell when black crush is happening in their captures.

So on one hand we're being told everyone used provided capture equipment and controlled consoles for this event, and on the other we're told that DF got permission to use their own equipment AND play around with the colorspace setting in the dashboard - that no one thought to tell them was completely broken on Xbone?

Make up your minds.

Yes this resonates as blatant incompetence to me. You just can't miss that if you're a so-called expert at analysing video game footage.

 

[Aussie Legend]

Seems like an honest mistake (I think)

 

[spuit*11]

Maybe next time hold off on comparisons until you can do them on your own equipment as opposed to EA's (perhaps questionably) calibrated capturing devices.

Ah, who am I kidding.

 

[Americanmushroom]

Hardware??
Meaning can't be fixed with firmware update? Or is it just bad wording?

probably bad wording

 

[adelante]

The only change - which we have made already - is the comment from DICE's Johan Andersson that ambient occlusion (missing in the XO review build we tested) will be present in the game you play at launch, using the same algorithm as the PS4 and PC versions.

Weird. I did see AO in Jackfrags' captured videos of the XOne version, but I guess he was specifically referring to the HBAO implementation of it.

 

[shem935]

Sooooo it was an issue with dice if I am reading this correctly? Or the hardware output?

 

[krypt0nian]

They pretty much have thrown away their credibility. Let's see if they react to get it back over time.

 

[BruiserBear]

They screwed up when capturing the footage and double down on their mistake by not even mentioning the problem in the original article.

Did you even read what he said? This changes nothing in regards to their observations and commentary on the game.

 

[Freki]

So they don't notice that the colorspace is messed up and throw dark10x under the bus... not cool...

 

[GashPrex]

Feel bad for Dark10x, just another victim of sloppy reporting and snap judgments by this forum

 

[DarkLordMalik]

So dark10x is John Linneman?

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

yeah. It is so freaking clear they fucked up. Did LeadButter think he can get away with this with lot of other sites footage out too. Their XBO footage looks terrible. And PS4 footage blurry mess.

 

[Steve McQueen]

Good read. I believe it was not their intention to fool anyone.

 

[Bundy]

Can't wait for the 1080p video. LOL @ people claiming in the other thread that Leadbetter botched the capture process on purpose in an attempt to make Xbone look better.

It's Leadbetter.....
Impossible is nothing with this guy...

 

[Gaz_RB]

Well this is going to another fun, enlightening, and civil thread

 

[GameSeeker]

Digital Foundry can't admit they screwed up the capture. They keep losing credibility.

 

[Durante]

"We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output"

Amazing.

I still don't understand how you can write (and presumably edit!) an entire article about this comparison and not immediately notice that there's a color space issue. I mean WTF.

 

[teiresias]

Sooooo it was an issue with dice if I am reading this correctly? Or the hardware output?

DF is claiming they didn't use the DICE provided equipment (which only captures standard RGB), and used their own capture equipment (which does capture full-range RGB), but that the Xbone currently does not output full-range RGB correctly even when set to that setting in the dashboard (or so they're told via a "source" - though this seems like something they'd want to clarify in an official capacity if they want any credibility whatsoever).

 

[tensuke]

So Xbone version will have AO in the final build? Will that's good news at least.

 

[phosphor112]

"We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output"

Amazing.

I still don't understand how you can write (and presumably edit!) an entire article about this comparison and not immediately notice that there's a color space issue. I mean WTF.

Yep. I was saying this from the start.

 

[gofreak]

Sooooo it was an issue with dice if I am reading this correctly? Or the hardware output?

They're blaming XB1's output, but you could also lay some blame on DF's side for not picking up faster on the disparity between what XB1 was outputting and what their capture hardware was expecting.

They wanted to do the same type of capture for both systems but they should maybe have identified more quickly that this wasn't going to be possible. I don't know, maybe they didn't check the footage at all until afterwards or the person on the ground wasn't very experienced or whatever.

Anyway, it's not really a big deal. I'm sure they can recapture XB1 stuff properly later.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

So Xbone version will have AO in the final build? Will that's good news at least.

But at what cost, if any, to the framerate?

 

[meppi]

Can't wait for the 1080p video. LOL @ people claiming in the other thread that Leadbetter botched the capture process on purpose in an attempt to make Xbone look better.

Oh don't worry, these guys will always find a way to drag Rich through the mud for some backwards reason.

 

[Massa]

Did you even read what he said? This changes nothing in regards to their observations and commentary on the game.

Did you even read what I said? They presented their terrible capture as if there was nothing wrong with it, leaving people to assume the issue was on the source.

 

[SwiftDeath]

DF should do another face-off with retail copies in a scenario they can control

 

[Teletraan1]

Do you understand that the world does not revolve around XB1 and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many dark10x lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or dark10xs you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long so you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or dark10xs you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way?

 

[anexanhume]

With AO missing and this colorspace issue, it does seem apparent that X1 is having a few more growing pains than PS4.

 

[funkystudent]

A simple "the captured footage was clearly not ideal due to a number of reasons and we will strive to correct these issues and do a better comparison once we have next gen systems in the office" would have been perfectly fine.

Poor Dark10x. Doesnt didnt need to be tossed under the bus like that.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Feel bad for Dark10x, just another victim of sloppy reporting and snap judgments by this forum

Yup... he tried to clarify, but it was already to late. We live in an age where a fart can turn into a hurricane in matter of minutes.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Um, you don't make a game look better by crushing subtle detail. The lowering of dynamic range like this physically can't make a game look better - it can only look worse. The only regret here is that the drive for the best possible assets has resulted in captures that do not fully represent how DICE wants the game to be played.

Or results in XB1 captures where you can't see shit because they are so dark/heavily contrasted, rendering comparison with the PS4 version completely spurious.

 

[UnObtainium17]

So uhh the ps4 version is just that blurry? I thought the messed ps4 captute too.

 

[jacksepticeye]

If they knew they weren't doing it right then why didn't they say that at first? Why wait till after? it made them look bad

It does seem like an honest mistake

 

[Riky]

So the only version captured wrong was the X1 and it should look better when captured correctly?

 

[Y2Kev]

Wow, did he really throw dark under the bus?

 

[MIlky1985]

Did you even read what he said? This changes nothing in regards to their observations and commentary on the game.

Should have still mentioned in the original article that the one was having issues with full range hdmi and that might have had an effect on the xbox one output. Its harder to compare images if one is badly calibrated. yes their commentary might not change but other peoples will.

If they are the lead in this sort of analysis you would expect that sort of thing to be mentioned. It was only mentioned because dark outed them which makes anything they say now seem a bit like ass covering in some peoples eyes.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

DF should do another face-off with retail copies in a scenario they can control

They said they will.

 

[phosphor112]

They're blaming XB1's output, but you could also lay some blame on DF's side for not picking up faster on the disparity between what XB1 was outputting and what their capture hardware was expecting.

They wanted to do the same type of capture for both systems but they should maybe have identified more quickly that this wasn't going to be possible. I don't know, maybe they didn't check the footage at all until afterwards or the person on the ground wasn't very experienced or whatever.

Anyway, it's not really a big deal. I'm sure they can recapture XB1 stuff properly later.

When you see stark color differences (x1 being a lot darker than both PS4 and PC) they should have known instantly. For people that have one of a kind, state of the art capturing hardware, they seem to be absofuckinglutely clueless.

 

[SwiftDeath]

So uhh the ps4 version is just that blurry? I thought the messed ps4 captute too.

They did, didn't they? From the original article

This leads us to a second issue that affects both console releases: gamma levels. We went into the review event having never hooked up our equipment to either next-gen platform before, and our tests with BF4 gave some curious results we want to revisit with the final game on retail hardware. Similar to the Xbox 360, Microsoft's new platform seems to enforce a colour push towards the lower end, leaving us with more saturated colours and deeper blacks. It's just cause to head towards Battlefield 4's brightness settings, but in the interest of a fair test we kept this at the default 30 per cent for all platforms.

Curiously, the top end is also affected, causing the image to appear distinctly washed out, as if set to limited range. This is particularly evident on PS4, which is kept free of a comparable black push to Microsoft's platform to compensate. Right now there's every possibility that it could be a capture situation, but it is worth noting that we saw no such issue on our PC captures and after returning to base, the same equipment produced a perfectly balanced picture on our PlayStation 3.

 

[RaikuHebi]

Gamersyde will save us.

 

[sits]

DF should do another face-off with retail copies in a scenario they can control

Their original article says they have every intention of doing so.

And you're right, there were variables out of their control on this one.

....holy shit GAF has some excessively-cynical, rabid, conspiratorial fanboys.

 

[nib95]

Leadbetter pretty much never properly admits mistakes or apologises for them. Just the way he is. Even with the Seven for Several mistake he made with the PS4 video capture length, his correction was whimsical at best.

 

[darkwing]

So the only version captured wrong was the X1 and it should look better when captured correctly?

should be, since no more crushed blacks

 

[$h@d0w]

What a mess, reminds me of microsoft's own messes - another rush job

dice should blacklist these clowns - they basically made their game look shit and misrepresented it

 

[zomgbbqftw]

"We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output"

Amazing.

I still don't understand how you can write (and presumably edit!) an entire article about this comparison and not immediately notice that there's a color space issue. I mean WTF.

Indeed. Considering that it was one of the first things that people in this thread noticed. Why was the Bone version so dark etc...

They should have noticed at the event and set their capture hardware to limited RGB. Now they have 3TB of useless 1080p footage for the Bone.

 

[TTOOLL]

They are just talking about it because people called them out. Not nice. They should have informed this first.