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Pennello: "People just weren't ready for all digital Xbox One". Post #657 = ether.
- Thread starter Jomjom
- Start date
Nowhere in that article do does Albert allude to 50GB game downloads. The term "all digital" is misrepresented in the article. The original method of delivery for the Xbone was both digital delivery and physical media even before the 180. Saying that he is pitching huge downloads for game delivery in this article is just plain false.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Not really singling you guys out.
..but the DRM was a necessary evil of a transitional system that was living in a dual digital & retail world.
The daily check-in was going to be the only way to allow the functionality of retail based games as we know now not being abused by consumers who would take advantage of a longer check-in period. ie: buy game, install game, return game... play until forced check-in when it'd be deactivated.
Sucks, but we consumers take advantage of any system we can we can work in our favor... just check out Slickdeals.. or the recent Wal-Mart price mistakes that everyone jumped on. We knew they were price mistakes, but didn't matter.. it was illegal.. so go for it. Really, same deal here.
I actually liked the idea MS was going for, but I understand why "some" people didn't... shitty bandwidth caps or not spotty slow internet.. etc... but I never got the anti-consumer side... as there's benefits from being a digital 1st console as well. Sucks, as I think it could have been a great thing gong forward for consumers.. as I think you'd see prices of games come down.
Fox Mulder
Member
I pay $40 a month for this in the US.
Internet infrastructure is awful, and then you add stingy ISP's with zero competition on top of it.
Mass Effect
Member
(1) And I don't think you understand where people are having the issue. Hint: It's not the idea of an all-digital future that's the problem(for most people anyway).
(2) It is the goal... eventually. And just because it's inevitable does NOT mean it has to be in such a way that MS envisioned it to be.
(3). Pointless flamebait that only serves to distract from the issue. Don't do this. Also, it should be pointed out that if MS were to have gone through with this, it wouldn't be the consumers having to adapt or die.
(4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the Kindle service, if you buy a book you can read it on your Kindle, iPhone/iPad, PC, Android, whatever as long as that platform supports it, right? You really think MS would do something like that? Like if I were to buy Titanfall on the Xbone, I can play it on the 360 and PC at no extra cost and no strings attached? Ha, doubt it.
Also, I don't believe that you have to check-in online everyday in order to be able to access your books?
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Shhh, we don't want people to remember that!
I live in a metropolitan US city and dont do any better, that is the problem. With the exception of Kansas City, Austin and some random city in Utah, no cities in the States have the infrastructure to handle it and our ISP's are constantly increasing their cost and decreasing the bandwidth cap.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Microsoft's argument is that we don't know what we want, or what we could have had.
The fact of the matter is, what pre-180 Xbone gave us wasn't as good as what it was taking away. We liked the shit we would lose out on waaaay more than the shit we'd suddenly be able to do. For the "100% digital" future to actually be a thing, Microsoft (and ostensibly publishers) will have to give a little. A 24-hour check-in is obviously unacceptable, as is a hard, system-wide region lock when trying to simply use the Xbone in a country where it hasn't launched.
We were never going to go for that, and Microsoft would know this if they actually fostered a line of communication between consumers and themselves.
I live in Ireland and last weekend my internet connection dropped for about 8 hours w/o prior notice. It was a very windy Saturday, around 5 C degrees (41 F) so I decided to stay home playing something.
Then It struck me I wouldn't be able to do play my own console in that situation according to MS' original Xbone vision.
Edit: to be fair, I just reminded they would have 24 hours checks, and not 8 hours. Still, I do travel a lot to the beach or countryside with friends, and we always bring a console to play casual multiplayer games (FIFA etc) at night, for example. Not doable here.
"They are not prepared" - right, MS, riiiiiight...
Imperfected
Member
I know he's not an unreasonable man, so it's absolutely baffling to me that he can't get through an interview without sounding like he's about to jump up and shout, "A temporary setback! I'll get you next time, He-Man!" and run off laughing maniacally.
Let it go, Al. No pouting over your dreams deferred. No wistful rejoinders about all that could have been. No coy hinting about how we can always go back to Plan A. No acting like you're waiting with infinite patience for the rest of the world to catch up to you.
There may come a time when the console can and should go all digital. On that day, you can feel free to look back on everyone who doubted and gloat about how they were neo-luddites - though even then, you probably shouldn't. Until then, save this shit for your diary and stop giving consumers even less reason to trust you. There is zero profit in continuing to bring this whole debacle up, other than soothing your bruised ego.
Let it go, Al. No pouting over your dreams deferred. No wistful rejoinders about all that could have been. No coy hinting about how we can always go back to Plan A. No acting like you're waiting with infinite patience for the rest of the world to catch up to you.
There may come a time when the console can and should go all digital. On that day, you can feel free to look back on everyone who doubted and gloat about how they were neo-luddites - though even then, you probably shouldn't. Until then, save this shit for your diary and stop giving consumers even less reason to trust you. There is zero profit in continuing to bring this whole debacle up, other than soothing your bruised ego.
FranXico
Member
I have to say, I am impressed at how efficiently Microsoft have erased recent history from people's minds.
I just saw a thread where people were panicking in fear of MS leaving the gaming market at the mercy of evil Sony. It felt surreal.
Nope. I don't believe the ps4 was ever going to be fully digital or anything close to what the xb1 was. But everyone's goal is to have consumers buy 100% digital in the future. Some have subtle ways of getting there (digital version comes out first, digital version gets discounts, ect.). Microsoft decided (for some reason) to go straight to all digital before anyone wanted it or saw any benefits. Microsoft made a horrible decision. But that doesn't change what the big 3 or the publishers want. And the xb1 drm fiasco isn't going to stop them from moving towards it.
Edit-- Just to be clear, I do not support the drm that was going to be a part of the xb1. But In the future when more games are always online, hard drives get larger + cloud storage becomes more widespread, internet speeds get faster, digital sales happen more often, digital versions of games regularly get released before the physical versions while costing a bit less, and other things that no doubt all three console makers are thinking of start to happen, I wouldn't be against embracing digital. And I feel that when it comes down to it, a lot of people will agree with me.
anexanhume
Member
I would have been fine with their approach without the check-in restriction. Then it would have been much more steam-like.
It's really annoying to hear the blame for their failures aimed in our direction.
It was their lack of a cohesive and consistent message that was the problem.
What we were presented with was something that sounded very anti-consumer and nothing pro-consumer was ever offered, besides the need to not have to get up and change discs.
It was their lack of a cohesive and consistent message that was the problem.
What we were presented with was something that sounded very anti-consumer and nothing pro-consumer was ever offered, besides the need to not have to get up and change discs.
Why is it so hard for these guys to understand that some of us just dont want that out of a console? Seriously, tons of gamers have said they dont like the dd system that ms wanted to implement and hes literally just rejecting it and saying that we did because reasons. Way treat your cuustomers with respect.
Dlacy13g
Member
And yet people have bought up iPads & tablets by the millions and not batted an eye at the fact that they are all 100% digital devices. Yes there are some differences to the marketplaces and how things are presented so its not a 1:1 comparison but I think you can make the case that we consumers are willing to buy into a DRM Digital world with the right device presented in the right way. I think MS did a horrible, horrible job on selling that future to the public as well as not easing the consumer into it.
robertsan21
Member
It sure is scary to see so many users in here that actually bought MS crap about Xbox one. It seems some people like being used and abused. These "fools" are unfortunately the ones ruining it for all of us if the xbone is a success. It's great that we took a stand and won, but it's obvious that MS didn't listen, they just saw bad pre order numbers and had to do something.. They will try it again, so don't support them!
BlastProcessing
Member
You know the implication is sort of insulting. We have to improve as consumers to become worthy of Microsoft's future.
Why is it so hard for these guys to understand that some of us just dont want that out of a console? Seriously, tons of gamers have said they dont like the dd system that ms wanted to implement and hes literally just rejecting it and saying that we did because reasons. Way to treat your cuustomers with respect and not act like their a bunch of spoiled 12 year olds.
I don't understand how the DRM reversal isn't best for everybody.
You want to download games? Great. You can do that now. PS4/XB1/Steam. Whatever. Nothing preventing MS from implementing some sort of check-in for their family plan. I mean, however that was going to work. Since, like everything else they've said, they were unclear on its implementation. I guess we weren't ready for a rational conversation.
You want physical games? Awesome. Go buy your games wherever you want.
The people defending MS ACTUALLY SAYING they would give the consumer PERMISSION to play the games they've ALREADY BOUGHT is confusing.
Do I still have access to all of my purchases when I am offline on a tablet? Do I have to check in with Apple's servers once a day to read my books? Play my games?
I know there are specific cases of online games to which the answer is yes, but I can easily avoid those examples. Not so with what MS was proposing.
You want to download games? Great. You can do that now. PS4/XB1/Steam. Whatever. Nothing preventing MS from implementing some sort of check-in for their family plan. I mean, however that was going to work. Since, like everything else they've said, they were unclear on its implementation. I guess we weren't ready for a rational conversation.
You want physical games? Awesome. Go buy your games wherever you want.
The people defending MS ACTUALLY SAYING they would give the consumer PERMISSION to play the games they've ALREADY BOUGHT is confusing.
Do I still have access to all of my purchases when I am offline on a tablet? Do I have to check in with Apple's servers once a day to read my books? Play my games?
I know there are specific cases of online games to which the answer is yes, but I can easily avoid those examples. Not so with what MS was proposing.
I'll wrap up why I don't want the MS digital future, even though I really want a digital future:
The game is a year old and you're still trying to peddle it on the Australian marketplace for $100? It's an MS published game - there is zero excuse as to why this is still $100.
It's funny, Sony wasn't the one trumpeting a digital future, yet they're the ones championing the cause. They've done it better, they've done it smarter and by and large most people are happy with the digital service from Sony.
The game is a year old and you're still trying to peddle it on the Australian marketplace for $100? It's an MS published game - there is zero excuse as to why this is still $100.
It's funny, Sony wasn't the one trumpeting a digital future, yet they're the ones championing the cause. They've done it better, they've done it smarter and by and large most people are happy with the digital service from Sony.
Best take a year off bud...things are not going to get much better overnight.
The fuck is he talking about, Xbox One never went full digital because it still had disc-based games planned. I guess by full digital he meant shitty DRM and restrictions that favor only MS and publishers, and then he is right that we weren't "ready" for it, and I don't think the public will ever be willing to accept it.
Tell Microsoft to stop saying stupid shit and there will stop being threads about it.
It's not our fault they cast a phoenix down on the dead horse.
ChitoCrisis
Member
This is why I don't want an Xbone. I'm afraid they'll release an update for their original vision in a few years. I don't trust Microsoft.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
The digital future is going to happen, no one is denying that. Might be via streaming with an "empty" box in your home or regular consoles but without physical media, who knows. But that wasn't the reason people complained. They complained about the DRM.
People don't want a 24 hour online check. Microsoft found a "solution" for physical media by tying games to a console and forcing you to sell your games to "participating retailers". People also didn't want that. DRM is what people were and are afraid of.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I really find it hard to believe that no one thought "hey, we're shipping 50GB games with mandatory installs and we only have a 500GB HDD and only about 25% of our prospective customer base has unlimited broadband plans." But maybe MS really is an echo chamber.
not_so_special
Banned
yeah..they do..and everyone laughed
Get MS to stop trying to revive the dead horse, and you'll stop seeing these kinds of threads.
To be perfectly honest, I'd be happy if they stopped pretending that their version of a digital future wasn't bullshit as well, but they insist on peddling their nonsense repeatedly. Hence these threads take their inevitable course.
That they keep insisting that "consumers weren't ready" is proof that they haven't learned anything. Not anything worthwhile, at least.
This attitude is the one and only thing that can allow these anti-consumer measures to become a reality.
Of course we have a choice. We always do. The digital medium will increase in popularity, there is no doubt about that, but there is absolutely no reason why it cannot coexist with the physical one, no reason at all, unless we allow these companies to get away with what they want.
The benefits of physical copies are too damn great for them to simply disappear, be it tomorrow or 30 years down the road.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Albert, thanks again for insulting me by telling me I'm too stupid to understand your horrible vision of the future.
NullPointer
Member
Come on now. You're not being rational.
Be rational.
Its the future. And its totally rational.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
I don't want your future, MS.
It's closer to the reason why I want Office 2010, and not Office 365.
It's closer to the reason why I want Office 2010, and not Office 365.
Yeah your totally right. But the only reason Microsoft had to find a "solution" for physical media is because tons of people still buy physical media. They did it too soon. In two or three console generations, they won't have to give the option for physical media. It was obvious that MS would have preferred to release an all digital system, but that wouldn't attract as large of an audience. Basically, they tried moving toward digital before anyone could benefit from it or wanted it.
Dude this is nothing compared to the continued reports today of them saying they might get rid of the xbox division at some point. Why the hell would anyone want to buy a 500 dollar game console from a company who thinks they might just get rid of it
breadtruck
Member
Like most things, if they had talked about it and its benefits much earlier to ease people in, then it probably wouldnt be a big deal.
If they said "we want to be a console version of Steam, with the sales and all," then people would be all "hell yeah lets xbone this bish up"
If they said "we want to be a console version of Steam, with the sales and all," then people would be all "hell yeah lets xbone this bish up"
Vigilant Gambit
Member
What they want is not nearly as important as what we, the consumers who line their pockets with the money we spend on their products, are willing to tolerate. Not to them, anyway. Hence the 180.
I think an apt analogy is to the transition from physical to digital media for music. Compare what we had 10 years ago to what we have today.
Then, we had digital audio. iTunes was in its infancy. The quality was (at least perceived) not as good as CD, because keeping the file size practical enough to download and listen to in a timely fashion meant using compression, which cost some fidelity. The most popular legal source of digital music was in a locked-down format, meaning you could only listen to your music on your computer, or on a really expensive, single-purpose device that probably wasn't compatible with your PC anyway. Not to mention the limited library.
As for physical media, you had a portable CD player which doubled as an FM radio. You had a CD player in your car. You had a stereo in your house. Almost all music worldwide
was being released on CD. All of these things were affordable and widespread. Basically, anywhere you wanted your music, you had it. You could make mix tapes, and so on. It was great.
Fast forward to today.
I have, right now, in my pocket, a small phone that I can plug into (or connect wirelessly to) damn near anything with a set of speakers. For the cost of 1 CD per month, I get unlimited access to a library breaking 20 million songs as of a year ago. I can plug it into my car and use the buttons on my steering wheel to skip through songs without taking my eyes off the road. I can create custom radio stations from playlists of songs that I like that will only play music that it thinks I will like, rather than whatever is popular for that genre. If I don't like a song, I don't ever have to hear it again. None of the songs take up any space on my phone unless I want to be able to listen to them when my phone doesn't have any reception; a thing I can generally prepare for as I need to.
In exchange for this, there are a few songs that I like that aren't on spotify (almost all of them are from overseas).
As for CDs...
They're prohibitively expensive. I have to have space for them. I can only listen to one at a time; if I wanna mix albums, I have to buy blank cds, rip my library, and make mixtapes, and then I can only listen to one mixtape at a time. I have to swap cds in and out unless I have a cd changer, and even that is still limiting. I have to walk around with a cd player if I want to listen on the go, and then I still have to store extra cds somewhere.
Ultimately, at some point, the value balance shifted wildly from physical to digital as our technology and high bandwidth penetration and availability went up. A lot of what makes digital music (and video) great today simply did not exist when it was first introduced, and that was a hard, technological limitation, not one by policy. A lot of what we didn't like about Xbone's pre-180 DRM was by policy alone. The very nature of the system was actively hostile towards the people who would be its direct supporters.
Change that, and then we can talk about the inevitability of the transition, but even that is still bottlenecked by technology.
I and many others will never be ready for MS's DRM future.
LordBaztion
Member
I expect by the end of this generation Digital to be the rule. I would like MS to make optional their original plan (sans region lock). I think I would enjoy it.
Please show me something credible with "them" saying they might get rid of the xbox division. I have not seen anything from MS saying anything of the sort.
He's stubborn, but he's right (in a way). They can't release an all digital console right now. The internet infrastructure isn't ready for it. I think that also was why they went with the 24 hour check in (they had to have disks).
Another reason we wouldn't be ready is because they haven't shown us enough benefits. Start having digital sales comparable to steam and giving us more benefits + release the system when the audience can deal (infrastructure wise) instead of having 24 hour check ins because you have to include physical media, and everyone would be ready.
Don't misunderstand my argument though. Microsoft tried to do something incredibly stupid that hardly anyone wanted. And it would have sucked.