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New Driveclub footage looks stunning

N

noah111

Still Alive
nkarafo said:
I mean, can you say that Metroid Prime on GC had sacrifices in its graphics for its 60fps update? It was still one of the most impressive GC games plus one of the most visual effect heavy i ever played. Was there any talk about sacrifices for this game? The only thing i remember is people complaining about the lack of bump mapping but, come on, the geometry level was so high that cracks and bumps on walls were polygonal 3D already, they didn't even need bump mapping for details like that.

And what about Rallisport Challenge 2 on XBOX? A racing game so its on topic. Again, one of the best looking games on the system but running at 60fps at the same time. Was there ever a discussion about sacrifices on its graphics for this one? What about GTA3/4 on PS2? What about F-Zero GX? I didn't see sacrifices on that one! Lots of track detail and 60fps, like Outrun 2006. And there are many more examples of games that had both great gfx (better than every other game on these systems) and 60fps at the same time.

This whole "sacrifices" talk was a thing in PS1 times when superior looking arcade games couldn't be ported without huge cuts. Or with N64 and F-Zero X. It stopped in the next generation but when PS3/360 were released, talk about sacrifices started again for some reason. These machines had at least one excuse though. The increased resolution. So ok, ill give them that. But now? No excuses. Their games are rendered at the same resolutions anyway.
Click to expand...
I think you're onto something. Game developers this gen must be purposefully not trying to reach 60fps. Yeah, that's it. Obviously the development challenges for GC, Xbox, PS2, PS3, 360, PS4 & XBO are the exact same and it's just as easy to throw in 60fps this gen as it was in the old days, right? "Sacrifices", psshhh.





What is this, the 'global warming is fake' of video game frame rates?
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
Sentry said:
I think you're onto something. Game developers this gen must be purposefully not trying to reach 60fps. Yeah, that's it. Obviously the development challenges for GC, Xbox, PS2, PS3, 360, PS4 & XBO are the exact same and it's just as easy to throw in 60fps this gen as it was in the old days, right? "Sacrifices", psshhh.
Click to expand...
I don't appreciate your tone but yeah. I think the standards have dropped and pretty graphics in still pictures are more important for the mainstream. And even if they could give us 60fps at the same, most developers won't spend time and money on that because of the lower standards. People now are fine with "fine".
 
synce

synce

Member
RE: 30 vs 60fps. It just comes down to how talented the developer is. For an amazing looking game that's also 60fps, you have to wait for GT7.
 
G

golem

Member
nkarafo said:
I don't appreciate your tone but yeah. I think the standards have dropped and pretty graphics in still pictures are more important for the mainstream. And even if they could give us 60fps at the same, most developers won't spend time and money on that because of the lower standards. People now are fine with "fine".
Click to expand...
60 fps used to be the goal. Now flashy graphics are. Looking at this thread, sales-wise theyre probably doing the right thing :/
 
B

B_Spooky13

Member
One thing I have noticed between DC and Forza is Dat rearview mirror..
In Forza 5 you see the opponent in the mirror but the background looks drab and doesn't actually really look like the background you just past.

But in DC you can see exactly what you past in the rearview mirror. The landscape. Signs. Looks amazing
 
C

Chuck Norris

Banned
nkarafo said:
It makes me wonder though... there was a time when 60fps games existed with virtually no sacrifices.

I mean, can you say that Metroid Prime on GC had sacrifices in its graphics for its 60fps update? It was still one of the most impressive GC games plus one of the most visual effect heavy i ever played. Was there any talk about sacrifices for this game? The only thing i remember is people complaining about the lack of bump mapping but, come on, the geometry level was so high that cracks and bumps on walls were polygonal 3D already, they didn't even need bump mapping for details like that.

And what about Rallisport Challenge 2 on XBOX? A racing game so its on topic. Again, one of the best looking games on the system but running at 60fps at the same time. Was there ever a discussion about sacrifices on its graphics for this one? What about GTA3/4 on PS2? What about F-Zero GX? I didn't see sacrifices on that one! Lots of track detail and 60fps, like Outrun 2006. And there are many more examples of games that had both great gfx (better than every other game on these systems) and 60fps at the same time.

This whole "sacrifices" talk was a thing in PS1 times when superior looking arcade games couldn't be ported without huge cuts. Or with N64 and F-Zero X. It stopped in the next generation but when PS3/360 were released, talk about sacrifices started again for some reason. These machines had at least one excuse though. The increased resolution. So ok, ill give them that. But now? No excuses. Their games are rendered at the same resolutions anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah clearly the level of complexity in building a good looking world is the same as it was on Gamecube and Xbox
 
B

Bedlam

Member
nkarafo said:
It makes me wonder though... there was a time when 60fps games existed with virtually no sacrifices.

I mean, can you say that Metroid Prime on GC had sacrifices in its graphics for its 60fps update? It was still one of the most impressive GC games plus one of the most visual effect heavy i ever played. Was there any talk about sacrifices for this game? The only thing i remember is people complaining about the lack of bump mapping but, come on, the geometry level was so high that cracks and bumps on walls were polygonal 3D already, they didn't even need bump mapping for details like that.

And what about Rallisport Challenge 2 on XBOX? A racing game so its on topic. Again, one of the best looking games on the system but running at 60fps at the same time. Was there ever a discussion about sacrifices on its graphics for this one? What about GTA3/4 on PS2? What about F-Zero GX? I didn't see sacrifices on that one! Lots of track detail and 60fps, like Outrun 2006. And there are many more examples of games that had both great gfx (better than every other game on these systems) and 60fps at the same time.

This whole "sacrifices" talk was a thing in PS1 times when superior looking arcade games couldn't be ported without huge cuts. Or with N64 and F-Zero X. It stopped in the next generation but when PS3/360 were released, talk about sacrifices started again for some reason. These machines had at least one excuse though. The increased resolution. So ok, ill give them that. But now? No excuses. Their games are rendered at the same resolutions anyway.
Click to expand...

nkarafo said:
I don't appreciate your tone but yeah. I think the standards have dropped and pretty graphics in still pictures are more important for the mainstream. And even if they could give us 60fps at the same, most developers won't spend time and money on that because of the lower standards. People now are fine with "fine".
Click to expand...
I don't even understand what your point is.

You can optimize as much as you want but there are ALWAYS trade-offs to be made. If Retro hadn't made MP a 60fps game, they could've increased visual fidelity, of course. What's so hard to understand about that? It's simple logic.

Your "arguments" are ridiculous. Sorry.
 
J

Jabba

Banned
I remember going from TOCA to PGR2. My friends and I could literally see the frame skipping in PGR2 after playing TOCA. After a while that dissapeared for all of us after each session. But if that doesn't go away or you get nausea or motion sickness, I get needing 60FPS for many. Luckily for me, 60FPS is variable. But this my case and my friends.

This difference never stopped the faster drivers from being the fastest in either game. Meaning, Erol and Jammiz and Toxic Viper and a few others burned everyone up in both games with/out 60FPS. Not to mention ones a sim, the other wasn't.

Some games with low fps give me motion sickness. The last one was SOTC. Enjoyed it but get sick really fast. I think if many games were actually locked at 30 with no dips at anypoint regardless of what the player does in game, maybe more people could handle that.

Then again this is someone who can play Skyrim at 15-19fps outside and 28-30 inside. LOL. I think 60FPS is absolutely prefferable. Needed? For some people yeah gotta have it. Their enjoyment drops off a cliff without it.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
Kinyou said:
Where exactly did he clarify that? Was there some follow up tweet?
Click to expand...

Why would it need clarifying? If you spend one minute to actually look at his twitter account, you'd know that it's a personal one and that almost everything on it is his opinion. You'd also know that he has next to nothing to do with Sony's first parties, so assuming that he's talking for them is laughable.

Then again, all the framerate trolling in this thread is pretty laughable as well.
 
Raonak

Raonak

Banned
Always believed in evolution, nice to see the game's buzz do a 180 after the new footage. Lighting is insanely good.


60FPS is double the framerate of 30fps. There's always going to be a sacrifice when going for it on consoles, since it's fixed hardware.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
nkarafo said:
It makes me wonder though... there was a time when 60fps games existed with virtually no sacrifices.

I mean, can you say that Metroid Prime on GC had sacrifices in its graphics for its 60fps update? It was still one of the most impressive GC games plus one of the most visual effect heavy i ever played. Was there any talk about sacrifices for this game? The only thing i remember is people complaining about the lack of bump mapping but, come on, the geometry level was so high that cracks and bumps on walls were polygonal 3D already, they didn't even need bump mapping for details like that.

And what about Rallisport Challenge 2 on XBOX? A racing game so its on topic. Again, one of the best looking games on the system but running at 60fps at the same time. Was there ever a discussion about sacrifices on its graphics for this one? What about GTA3/4 on PS2? What about F-Zero GX? I didn't see sacrifices on that one! Lots of track detail and 60fps, like Outrun 2006. And there are many more examples of games that had both great gfx (better than every other game on these systems) and 60fps at the same time.

This whole "sacrifices" talk was a thing in PS1 times when superior looking arcade games couldn't be ported without huge cuts. Or with N64 and F-Zero X. It stopped in the next generation but when PS3/360 were released, talk about sacrifices started again for some reason. These machines had at least one excuse though. The increased resolution. So ok, ill give them that. But now? No excuses. Their games are rendered at the same resolutions anyway.
Click to expand...

There are always sacrifices to achieve 60fps for the simple fact you can ALWAYS do more with the same resources at 30fps.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
nkarafo said:
It makes me wonder though... there was a time when 60fps games existed with virtually no sacrifices.

I mean, can you say that Metroid Prime on GC had sacrifices in its graphics for its 60fps update? It was still one of the most impressive GC games plus one of the most visual effect heavy i ever played. Was there any talk about sacrifices for this game? The only thing i remember is people complaining about the lack of bump mapping but, come on, the geometry level was so high that cracks and bumps on walls were polygonal 3D already, they didn't even need bump mapping for details like that.

And what about Rallisport Challenge 2 on XBOX? A racing game so its on topic. Again, one of the best looking games on the system but running at 60fps at the same time. Was there ever a discussion about sacrifices on its graphics for this one? What about GTA3/4 on PS2? What about F-Zero GX? I didn't see sacrifices on that one! Lots of track detail and 60fps, like Outrun 2006. And there are many more examples of games that had both great gfx (better than every other game on these systems) and 60fps at the same time.

This whole "sacrifices" talk was a thing in PS1 times when superior looking arcade games couldn't be ported without huge cuts. Or with N64 and F-Zero X. It stopped in the next generation but when PS3/360 were released, talk about sacrifices started again for some reason. These machines had at least one excuse though. The increased resolution. So ok, ill give them that. But now? No excuses. Their games are rendered at the same resolutions anyway.
Click to expand...

Metroid Prime was very low poly, and the areas were mostly pretty small. It just had a phenomenal art direction. Same with F-Zero, really. It's all great art direction. When you look at it, there's not really anything going on trackside, nothing particularly taxing, anyway.
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
Bedlam said:
I don't even understand what your point is.
Click to expand...
I can see that.

My point is that these 60fps games were also the best looking games on these systems. Could they look better if they were 30fps? Sure but they didn't need to. They were already the best looking ones. And at the same time running at 60fps. Which adds to the visual fidelity. See, higher FPS makes graphics look better in motion, i don't understand why it isn't considered a visual improvement.


King_Moc said:
Metroid Prime was very low poly
Click to expand...
Actually, no, it wasn't.
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
The greatest feat will be a DC thread without framerate commentary. LOL!

The game looks tits. That's pretty much it. STFU about framerate until the game nears completion and there's actually something to talk about with the framerate.

Everyone would prefer 60fps for everything, but it's not realistic. Commenting on it for every game should be getting tedious for those doing it, but that seems to be a well that will never run dry. I find this as amusing as people who nitpick Ryse's graphics. Get a life already. PEACE.
 
3

3rdamention

Member
I would prefer 60 fps in any racing game. However, playing NFS Rivals in 30fps on my PS4 is still a very fun experience.



If we end up with the visuals in Drive Club that these new updated builds are teasing, but the game still launches at 30fps, I am not going to cry about it. The game can still be a very enjoyable experience and looks to already be upping the eye candy.



Sure, Forza 5 is 60fps, but the track detail in these two games is night and day. The lighting and atmosphere/track detail/scenery in Drive Club blows Forza5's out of the water.
 
C

computers putin'

Member
I thought 30 fps would be a deal breaker in a racer for me until I played Forza Horizon, which ended up being my favorite racer of all time. Of course it's nice to have though.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
"Games were 60fps on PS2 how could they go to 30 when the systems are so much more powerful"

Why do people have this mentality? It doesn't matter how much power you have there are still going to be limits and budgets to what you can do. If you want 60fps sacrifices have to be made to achieve that and some developers believe their art direction is more successful when limited to 30fps and able to achieve better image quality.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
LiquidSolid said:
Why would it need clarifying? If you spend one minute to actually look at his twitter account, you'd know that it's a personal one and that almost everything on it is his opinion. You'd also know that he has next to nothing to do with Sony's first parties, so assuming that he's talking for them is laughable.

Then again, all the framerate trolling in this thread is pretty laughable as well.
Click to expand...
If it's his personal one or official doesn't really matter since I posted the pic in a response to someone saying that the devs are under a lot of pressure from people expecting 60FPS. So he's certainly in that group
Also the part I wanted to have clarified was that the was specifically referring to indie games (as people say), and not games in general.
 
B

Biker19

Banned
nkarafo said:
It makes me wonder though... there was a time when 60fps games existed with virtually no sacrifices.

I mean, can you say that Metroid Prime on GC had sacrifices in its graphics for its 60fps update? It was still one of the most impressive GC games plus one of the most visual effect heavy i ever played. Was there any talk about sacrifices for this game? The only thing i remember is people complaining about the lack of bump mapping but, come on, the geometry level was so high that cracks and bumps on walls were polygonal 3D already, they didn't even need bump mapping for details like that.

And what about Rallisport Challenge 2 on XBOX? A racing game so its on topic. Again, one of the best looking games on the system but running at 60fps at the same time. Was there ever a discussion about sacrifices on its graphics for this one? What about GTA3/4 on PS2? What about F-Zero GX? I didn't see sacrifices on that one! Lots of track detail and 60fps, like Outrun 2006. And there are many more examples of games that had both great gfx (better than every other game on these systems) and 60fps at the same time.

This whole "sacrifices" talk was a thing in PS1 times when superior looking arcade games couldn't be ported without huge cuts. Or with N64 and F-Zero X. It stopped in the next generation but when PS3/360 were released, talk about sacrifices started again for some reason. These machines had at least one excuse though. The increased resolution. So ok, ill give them that. But now? No excuses. Their games are rendered at the same resolutions anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree. The PS4 is the most powerful console out to date, with 8 GB's of GDDR5 RAM, & a 1.84 TFLOP GPU. Heck, it could even handle every single Arcade game in the book perfectly, including recent Arcade games right now.

No reason that this game can't run in Native 1080p w/60 FPS whatsoever. None.
 
F

FuturusX

Member
OddMorsel said:
"Games were 60fps on PS2 how could they go to 30 when the systems are so much more powerful"

Why do people have this mentality? It doesn't matter how much power you have there are still going to be limits and budgets to what you can do. If you want 60fps sacrifices have to be made to achieve that and some developers believe their art direction is more successful when limited to 30fps and able to achieve better image quality.
Click to expand...

You can't talk to these 60fps or bust people.

I want the correct balance of all things. 60 FPS should not be pursues at all costs. Or we could end up with Forza :p
 
A

Afrikan

Member
viveks86 said:
Can someone remind me what this thread was about? 4 out of 5 comments are about some other game or 60 fps
Click to expand...

what's weird is...I don't understand why THIS game is the lighting storm regarding 60fps.

I mean all of their other PS3 racers were 30fps..and had great sense of speed.

Why isn't NFS's thread being blown up with these 60fps comments? And they have even more reason to with EA locking the PC version at 30fps...I know a thread was started for that particular issue..but it seems like 60fps gets mention much more in DriveClub threads.

You read those initial comments that start the storm...they just seem like drive by trolling.
 
C

ChronotriggerJM

Member
nkarafo said:
I can see that.

My point is that these 60fps games were also the best looking games on these systems. Could they look better if they were 30fps? Sure but they didn't need to. They were already the best looking ones. And at the same time running at 60fps. Which adds to the visual fidelity. See, higher FPS makes graphics look better in motion, i don't understand why it isn't considered a visual improvement.



Actually, no, it wasn't.
Click to expand...


It is considered a visual improvement, but not one without significant costs. You're just looking for something from the wrong developer. It's not like Evolution studio's took an artistic leap of some sort and abandoned 60fps, none of their ps3 offerings ran at that framerate. It's pretty obvious Evolution has different goals. You have to remember that this is a launch title and they're once again building an engine up.

Forza deemed 60 fps the most important goal, and I feel that game suffered heavily because of it. Evolution favored more taxing solutions for increased dynamic freedom. Framerate (above 30) is their afterthought. But I'm used to 30FPS from the Motorstorm series, so as a fan this doesn't affect me. It's not something I was expecting.
 
M

malboroking

Banned
nasanu said:
I've seen the press trailers of pCars. Sure they are great, nothing is ever as sexy as a lie. Search youtube for actual gameplay, the graphics are well... I want to say rubbish, so I'll say it.. pCars graphics are rubbish. Compared to other PC sims the graphics are amazing, but the truth is most PC racers look at PS2 games with graphics envy (ok maybe not PS2 but you get the picture, they suck).
Click to expand...

Why are you doing this? Do we really need to start a graphics war?
 
pop_tarts

pop_tarts

Member
I would love to see some of these guys talking about "I don't see why this game can't run at 60fps" actually make a game that looks half this good on the ps4 and see how great it comes out.

Forza 5 looks like trash and that's the only reason it can run at a solid 1080p/60fps. If it had any type of AA in that came the frame would have dropped probably all the way down to 45 let alone dynamic lighting not even talking about day/night cycle. Throw in bland envorinment and lack of dirt tracks and weather effects...like the 30fps crew have been saying "THINGS NEED TO BE SACRIFICED" point blank. Outrun and Rallisport had barely any texture details, lighting effects of any sort, draw distance was a joke, and where was the AI?

If you are going to argue that games should be running at 60fps please give a better arguement than these games. or try making a game of your own and then tell me if you can reach your target 60fps.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
The English Conquistador said:
What? There is clear and obvious aliasing in the file footage. Even the steam I can see it.
Click to expand...

Really?

ibbetkKmB02bPN.png


I know the shot is pretty heavily compressed but I can usually tell where there is some aliasing present and I do not see it. It's at least substantially improved from older builds where my eyes went straight to it.
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
pop_tarts said:
or try making a game of your own and then tell me if you can reach your target 60fps.
Click to expand...
Great argument. I suppose knowing how to code and having experience on making games is a requirement? Or maybe making games should be your daily job?

Anyway, some developers can do that i suppose, some other's can't and most won't even bother.


pop_tarts said:
Outrun and Rallisport had barely any texture details, lighting effects of any sort, draw distance was a joke
Click to expand...
Something tells me you never played these games or your memory is foggy. Especially the drawing distance on Outrun... dude!

outrun2006+%281%29.jpg

outrun-06-m.jpg

outrun-2006-coast-2-coast-20060308013752063.jpg
Click to expand...

Is this kind of drawing distance a joke to you?
 
pop_tarts

pop_tarts

Member
nkarafo said:
Great argument. I suppose knowing how to code and having experience on making games is a requirement? Or maybe making games should be your daily job?

Anyway, some developers can do that i suppose, some other's can't and most won't even bother.
Click to expand...

I was a Sega Rally Championchip kinda guy myself but yes I've play the snot out of Outrun on arcade. It make look like a good distance but these games are tablet type games you wouldn't see even Forza or Driveclub able to run on tablets. There's too much graphical fidelity going on in both games. I'm sure once Evo is done with this game they will optomize their code as well as their understanding of the consoles hardware will be better and DC2 you'll get your 60fps at a crisp 1080p. But for now enjoy their first offering. excuse any misspelled words I rather not use spell check and look like a complete moron than use spellcheck and be a hidden moron.
 
V

viveks86

Member
Afrikan said:
what's weird is...I don't understand why THIS game is the lighting storm regarding 60fps.

I mean all of their other PS3 racers were 30fps..and had great sense of speed.

Why isn't NFS's thread being blown up with these 60fps comments? And they have even more reason to with EA locking the PC version at 30fps...I know a thread was started for that particular issue..but it seems like 60fps gets mention much more in DriveClub threads.

You read those initial comments that start the storm...they just seem like drive by trolling.
Click to expand...

It's all so arbitrary. I've completely lost interest in even trying to argue with the '60 fps or no buy' group. Whatever floats their boat! (shrugs)
 
E

Elvick

Banned
I don't know why people are making a big deal about 60FPS, if you need that, then just don't buy the game. Move on. Not everything has to be an argument.

@topic; The game looks beautiful, the delay is the reason I'm actually interested in it. It was going to be eaten up by all the other stuff releasing at the time. Now I'll give it a whirl.
 
P

ProfessorMoran

Member
RoboPlato said:
Really?

ibbetkKmB02bPN.png


I know the shot is pretty heavily compressed but I can usually tell where there is some aliasing present and I do not see it. It's at least substantially improved from older builds where my eyes went straight to it.
Click to expand...

When exactly is this thing coming out anyway? The delay turned out to be a smart decision, hopefully the online racing is good and they get all their features in.
 
S

spwolf

Member
nkarafo said:
I can see that.

My point is that these 60fps games were also the best looking games on these systems. Could they look better if they were 30fps? Sure but they didn't need to. They were already the best looking ones. And at the same time running at 60fps. Which adds to the visual fidelity. See, higher FPS makes graphics look better in motion, i don't understand why it isn't considered a visual improvement.



Actually, no, it wasn't.
Click to expand...


you are not making any sense... Only way for 60fps game to be the best looking one is that 30fps games suck and are made by bad developers.

Otherwise, math is simple.. you need 2x more power for 60fps games.
 
B

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
As good as this looks, I hope evolution brings back motorstorm on ps5. The jump should be plenty to match the orginal trailer.
 
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