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[-griffy-]

Yeah it still doesn't line up though. If it was padlocked on the inside with the girl inside (cause for her to scratch "Help" while trying to escape), why would her bloody earring be there? There has to be a separate entrance/doorway that was not shown. The earring shouldn't be there if the padlock is on the hatch.

I'm having trouble understanding what doesn't line up. The earring and message are there because the padlock is on the hatch. She finds the hatch, it's padlocked, so she scratches the message into the window with the earring. That hatch would have been padlocked by Howard long before anyone was brought into the bunker.

We know there's an entrance to that room since Howard tries to open it when the air system shuts down, but it won't open so he sends Michelle through the duct instead.

 

[Brewmont]

Yeah it still doesn't line up though. If it was padlocked on the inside with the girl inside (cause for her to scratch "Help" while trying to escape), why would her bloody earring be there? There has to be a separate entrance/doorway that was not shown. The earring shouldn't be there if the padlock is on the hatch. The only way I can see it being possible (with no other access point) is that Emmett was involved.

The room was built and locked during construction most likely, to keep anyone from getting in, since it's supposed to isolate you from the world. The girl gets kidnapped and is probably made to crawl up and reset the air, just like MEW had to. She then scratches help on the window .

Also seeing people confused about her body being the thing that was blocking the air latch, when Howard specifically told the characters about his barrels of acid that dissolve organic matter down to the bone...

 

[OmegaSkittle]

I'm having trouble understanding what doesn't line up. The earring and message are there because the padlock is on the hatch. She finds the hatch, it's padlocked, so she scratches the message into the window with the earring. That hatch would have been padlocked by Howard long before anyone was brought into the bunker.

We know there's an entrance to that room since Howard tries to open it when the air system shuts down, but it won't open so he sends Michelle through the duct instead.

Wouldn't her body still be there though? If she was trying to escape I doubt she would crawl through the vent back to Howard if she was kidnapped.

But yeah I guess there has to be a another entrance realistically anyway. Because in my mind the only way to get into that room was either through the hatch on the ceiling or from the duct.

 

[BorkBork]

Doesn't really make sense that a body is blocking the vent. Howard's too meticulous and obsessive to let one of his "daughters" just be stuck somewhere when he has the means to clean things up.

 

[-griffy-]

Wouldn't her body still be there though? If she was trying to escape I doubt she would crawl through the vent back to Howard if she was kidnapped.

But yeah I guess there has to be a another entrance realistically anyway. Because in my mind the only way to get into that room was either through the hatch on the ceiling or from the duct.

I don't know why you'd assume she would just stay in that room to die. The point of the message is the hope that someone outside would find it and get help, but seeing as there's no immediate escape there's no reason she wouldn't have just continued living in the bunker waiting for help to come. Her death was almost surely at the hands of Howard, after he realized she wasn't committed to the "relationship" or something equally crazy. Then her body was dissolved in a vat of acid and the remains disposed of somewhere else, since this would have been long before the attack happened.

 

[OmegaSkittle]

I don't know why you'd assume she would just stay in that room to die. The point of the message is the hope that someone outside would find and and get help, but seeing as there's no immediate escape there's no reason she wouldn't have just continued living in the bunker waiting for help to come. Her death was almost surely at the hands of Howard, after he realized she wasn't committed to the "relationship" or something equally crazy. Then her body was dissolved in a vat of acid and the remains disposed of somewhere else, since this would have been long before the attack happened.

Yeah I was confused about the door since I must have missed it. I wasn't questioning the body in the vent as they heavily hinted that Howard had used it before to dissolve flesh to bone.

Knowing that there was another door clears everything up. Thanks!

 

[VindictiveGnome]

I was really disappointed when Howard didn't rush upstairs and unlock the bunker just to get revenge on Michelle. I expected it the whole time she was fucking with the truck. It makes sense that he didn't, I suppose. Would have possibly went against his character.

I enjoyed the ending and definitely got some Half-Life 2 War of the Worlds vibes once she got out of the bunker.

 

[zeemumu]

This the second movie that Mary Elizabeth Winstead has been in that involves the antagonist being outed by an earring and being set on fire. I'd like to believe that this movie was a continuation after she escaped the Arctic.

 

[Japanmanx3]

I was really disappointed when Howard didn't rush upstairs and unlock the bunker just to get revenge on Michelle. I expected it the whole time she was fucking with the truck. It makes sense that he didn't, I suppose. Would have possibly went against his character.

I enjoyed the ending and definitely got some Half-Life 2 War of the Worlds vibes once she got out of the bunker.

Definitely would've ruined his character. More than anything he was going to protect himself. Having a squeeze around to play wife was just the icing on the cake. Down there he was King. Up top he was nothing but a conspiracy theorist. Him running outside to be contaminated (1) (though we assume that takes place when the ships gasses directly get you) would've been the first thing and (2) him seeing the aliens to reaffirm his theories would've how much more dumb the move was to come outside would've been.

The tension that scene built though was masterful. Thinking he was going to sneak her during that part was a rollercoaster of anticipation until the bunker blew up.

 

[Brakke]

This the second movie that Mary Elizabeth Winstead has been in that involves the antagonist being outed by an earring and being set on fire. I'd like to believe that this movie was a continuation after she escaped the Arctic.

This movie definitely had some career-meta nods. She played John McClane's daughter in That Die Hard Where He Had A Daughter and then here she goes and goes and crawls through an air vent while someone shoots holes in it from below.

 

[-griffy-]

This movie definitely had some career-meta nods. She played John McClane's daughter in That Die Hard Where He Had A Daughter and then here she goes and goes and crawls through an air vent while someone shoots holes in it from below.

She also navigated a dangerous (acid covered) floor barefoot, though she managed to avoid her feet getting injured.

 

[Makonero]

This movie definitely had some career-meta nods. She played John McClane's daughter in That Die Hard Where He Had A Daughter and then here she goes and goes and crawls through an air vent while someone shoots holes in it from below.

All I could think of during those scenes were "This is the direction Die Hard should have taken" haha

 

[neshcom]

Was Howard's room adjacent to the filter room? I remember thinking I saw a door in his bedroom that was covered up my jackets or a dresser when Michelle first went in to use the restroom.

 

[LakeEarth]

Definitely would've ruined his character. More than anything he was going to protect himself. Having a squeeze around to play wife was just the icing on the cake.

To play daughter with. There's no indication that his obsession was sexual in nature.

Was Howard's room adjacent to the filter room? I remember thinking I saw a door in his bedroom that was covered up my jackets or a dresser when Michelle first went in to use the restroom.

There definitely was. They never explain what that door led to, but it does makes no sense that John Goodman's character couldn't reach such a vital part of his shelter.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I like the constant focus on her hands. The nail polish is this nice solid colour and as the movie goes on the more degraded it gets

 

[Ogodei]

There was a hatch he was trying to get into the filtration room from below, though someone earlier in the thread pointed out that the hatch was pretty small too, maybe the hatch was right below the switch so you didn't have to climb all the way through?

My theory is that Brittany discovered the air control room by herself and scratched that Help message in over the course of days or weeks, and he killed her when he discovered that she was doing it, maybe when he had to go up there, but that a tremor in the meantime caused some of the boxes or stuff stored up in the room to shift and block the hatch.

 

[-griffy-]

Two things.

1. Listening to the soundtrack all day, it's great (and it's really good at drowning out the political back and forth of coworkers). McCreary did good.

2. The creepiest and most disturbing thing in the entire film is John Goodman's freshly shaven face after that scene.

 

[nomis]

One way I think the movie could have (perhaps unnecessarily) strengthened its ties with Cloverfield would be if the infected woman had exploded against the hatch door instead of banging her head. I was waiting for the moment for her to get Lizzy Caplan'd but it never came...

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

I really enjoyed 10 Cloverfield Lane. Its a thrilling movie with great characters and exciting plot twists. The pacing is perfect. All of the actors do an excellent job. I honestly don't remember much about Cloverfield, but this film works fine on its own. I think the ending was going for Twilight Zone-esque irony, with John Goodman being (sort of) right all along, but I don't think it entirely works. It brings up too many logical problems. Howard kidnapped the previous girl way before there was a global threat and still went out of the shelter to capture Michelle, which means he didn't genuinely believe his nuclear war theories and the alien invasion was completely coincidental. Also, the suit Michelle and Emmett made would be useless against radiation.

 

[BorkBork]

I think the ending was going for Twilight Zone-esque irony, with John Goodman being (sort of) right all along, but I don't think it entirely works. It brings up too many logical problems. Howard kidnapped the previous girl way before there was a global threat and still went out of the shelter to capture Michelle, which means he didn't genuinely believe his nuclear war theories and the alien invasion was completely coincidental.

I think you missed the main motivation behind why Howard built the bunker. After being shunned by others as a conspiracy nut, he wanted control over the world, so he built one. He kidnapped Brittany to have a daughter. When she didn't behave, he killed her and looked for another to build that perfect life for himself. The apocalypse wasn't necessary, but instead just fuels his belief that everything he did and believed in was true and right.

Also, the suit Michelle and Emmett made would be useless against radiation.

Probably. But for them, it was worth the risk. Better that than to stay inside with a killer for who knows how many years

 

[Brakke]

Also, the suit Michelle and Emmett made would be useless against radiation.

Not just radiation, that suit is useless against an enormous range of things. The air filter was like a 3M dust mask. They wouldn't have been safe from anything oil-based. Or really anything serious at all.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Not just radiation, that suit is useless against an enormous range of things. The air filter was like a 3M dust mask. They wouldn't have been safe from anything oil-based. Or really anything serious at all.

She was following a Doomsday Prep Book, of course it wouldn't work that much

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Was pretty useless up against a car door.

 

[?oe?oe]

\ the alien invasion was completely coincidental..

Yep. Michelle was going to be kidnapped regardless, the aliens attacking made it a perfect excuse for Howard to keep her down there.

 

[dustyherb]

Man as soon as Emmett died I got sad. Just thinking about Michelle all alone in that shelter with Howard and how terrible that would be. Also seeing his body in the acid was really fucked up as well. Poor dude didn't deserve any of that.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yep. Michelle was going to be kidnapped regardless, the aliens attacking made it a perfect excuse for Howard to keep her down there.

I was thinking the opposite - Howard captured Michelle because he thought something was happening. He was bolting home to get into the bunker, recognized the car from the gas station, and decided he wanted her there as his plaything if the surface was going to hell.

 

[Elitist1945]

I was thinking the opposite - Howard captured Michelle because he thought something was happening. He was bolting home to get into the bunker, recognized the car from the gas station, and decided he wanted her there as his plaything if the surface was going to hell.

Him being at the gas station makes me think he was following her and planning to abduct her.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Tasha Robinson at the Verge spelling out why the ending of this film is absolutely fucking necessary to the successful execution of the story.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/17/11255744/10-cloverfield-lane-movie-ending-backlash

0 Cloverfield Lane is fundamentally about domestic abuse. Howard is a classic abuser, to such a degree that his actions run down a straight checklist of common tactics and warning signs. From his first moments with Michelle, he’s more interested in controlling her than comforting her. He has no empathy for her, or understanding of what’s going on in her head. He threatens her with violence when she disobeys his arbitrary rules, then seems baffled a moment later about why she’s upset. He’s jealous and volatile. He terrifies her, then blames her for hurting his feelings by not showing him enough gratitude and respect. He isolates her from her friends and family, both physically, by locking her into the bunker, and emotionally, by repeatedly claiming they’re all dead and there’s no way to even attempt to contact them. (Given that he doesn’t actually know the nature or extent of the attack on the world above, this is one of the earliest signs that he’s nowhere near the altruist he keeps claiming to be.)...

...When Michelle escapes the bunker and finds a new threat waiting, this is partially an extension of the abuse metaphor. For victims of domestic abuse, just getting out of the house doesn’t immediately solve all their problems. For the metaphor to stay sound, 10 Cloverfield Lane needs to acknowledge that finding the courage to leave an abuser doesn’t guarantee a happily-ever-after. For a moment, when Michelle first removes her makeshift gas mask and learns that Howard was wrong about the poisonous air, it seems like the movie might end on a note of relief, and the promise that her problems are over. But that would be facile, and would also mean that Michelle had been in a standard slasher movie, where arbitrarily bad things happen to random people, and nothing much is learned. And that wouldn’t be in keeping with the movie’s actual arc, which is all about the way Michelle comes to terms with her abuse.

Michelle’s problems didn’t start with Howard, and they don’t end with him. They aren’t imaginary, like the toxic threat, and they aren’t just part of some vague general calamity. They’re specific and personal, and they require a specific, personal catharsis. And that’s the primary reason the big, direct confrontation is necessary in the final act.

There's a lot more at the link.

 

[timetokill]

Tasha Robinson at the Verge spelling out why the ending of this film is absolutely fucking necessary

Meh. Completely misses the point. There are other ways to complete her story than the awful one they chose. If they wanted to show her learn to stop running away, she could've taken over the bunker instead of escaping it, she could've gone outside and decided to go back to look for survivors or go to rescue her fiance or whatever. Hell, they could've done aliens but had it be something smaller and more reasonable. Defeating any alien is scary enough. Instead they grafted the climax of a movie ABOUT aliens onto the end of a movie ABOUT domestic and emotional abuse. They went full bombast, with throwing a Molotov into a giant alien airship and full on Michael Bay explosions where the audience was just shocked out of their skin 15 minutes before by a single gunshot.

The point is, as writers the world is their oyster. It's not that the story shouldn't have an ending, it's that the one they delivered sucked.

AN ending is necessary. THAT ending was not.

 

[-griffy-]

Meh. Completely misses the point. There are other ways to complete her story than the awful one they chose. If they wanted to show her learn to stop running away, she could've taken over the bunker instead of escaping it, she could've gone outside and decided to go back to look for survivors or go to rescue her fiance or whatever. Hell, they could've done aliens but had it be something smaller and more reasonable. Defeating any alien is scary enough. Instead they grafted the climax of a movie ABOUT aliens onto the end of a movie ABOUT domestic and emotional abuse. They went full bombast, with throwing a Molotov into a giant alien airship and full on Michael Bay explosions where the audience was just shocked out of their skin 15 minutes before by a single gunshot.

The point is, as writers the world is their oyster. It's not that the story shouldn't hands an ending, it's that the one they delivered sucked.

AN ending is necessary. THAT ending was not.

Nah, I don't think Tasha Robinson completely missed the point.

 

[NotoriousPUG]

Meh. Completely misses the point. There are other ways to complete her story than the awful one they chose. If they wanted to show her learn to stop running away, she could've taken over the bunker instead of escaping it, she could've gone outside and decided to go back to look for survivors or go to rescue her fiance or whatever. Hell, they could've done aliens but had it be something smaller and more reasonable. Defeating any alien is scary enough. Instead they grafted the climax of a movie ABOUT aliens onto the end of a movie ABOUT domestic and emotional abuse. They went full bombast, with throwing a Molotov into a giant alien airship and full on Michael Bay explosions where the audience was just shocked out of their skin 15 minutes before by a single gunshot.

The point is, as writers the world is their oyster. It's not that the story shouldn't hands an ending, it's that the one they delivered sucked.

AN ending is necessary. THAT ending was not.

I thought the ending was great. Glad they went all out.

 

[Cmerrill]

Good movie(until end), great performances ruined by terrible/lazy alien design and just a shit ending.

 

[Defect]

Good movie(until end), great performances ruined by terrible/lazy alien design and just a shit ending.

How is it a shit ending?

 

[Cmerrill]

How is it a shit ending?

Because of the shitty alien design and a maltov cocktail that blows up an entire space ship.

It felt forced and really out of place.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Tasha Robinson at the Verge spelling out why the ending of this film is absolutely fucking necessary to the successful execution of the story.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/17/11255744/10-cloverfield-lane-movie-ending-backlash

There's a lot more at the link.

But ultimately, the ending fits because it’s the necessary completion of a meaningful arc.

Yup, a 1,000 times over.

This is one of those films that the more I think about, the more I like (and I loved it on first viewing), but the ending in particular. It's nice to see something that juggles being unexpected (aliens?!) while still being reasonably foreshadowed, and then resolves the central conflict in the film perfectly.

 

[Admodieus]

I was thinking the opposite - Howard captured Michelle because he thought something was happening. He was bolting home to get into the bunker, recognized the car from the gas station, and decided he wanted her there as his plaything if the surface was going to hell.

But the idea that the

Spoiler

alien attack

was a total coincidence with his abduction has a lot more supporting evidence, I think. He obviously wasn't planning on Emmett being there - hence why Emmett hurt his arm trying to force his way into the bunker. Howard got Michelle in there and was ready to seal up when Emmett told him there was an actual attack. It also explains why he's so short with Emmett throughout the film - when he knocks over the shelf of food, at the dinner table, and during the game they play. It's also why he cleans up and becomes a lot nicer when he's finally gone.

 

[-griffy-]

But the idea that the

Spoiler

alien attack

was a total coincidence with his abduction has a lot more supporting evidence, I think. He obviously wasn't planning on Emmett being there - hence why Emmett hurt his arm trying to force his way into the bunker. Howard got Michelle in there and was ready to seal up when Emmett told him there was an actual attack. It also explains why he's so short with Emmett throughout the film - when he knocks over the shelf of food, at the dinner table, and during the game they play. It's also why he cleans up and becomes a lot nicer when he's finally gone.

He seemed to know there was going to be an attack, and the radio at the beginning is talking about power outages and the like, so I think it's probable that he saw the pre-attack activity and went out to find a daughter surrogate to abduct before the full attack happened. Then the attack actually happens, Howard gets back and is in a rush since he leaves stuff in the truck, Emmet shows up as he's trying to close the door, etc.

 

[GhaleonEB]

But the idea that the

Spoiler

alien attack

was a total coincidence with his abduction has a lot more supporting evidence, I think. He obviously wasn't planning on Emmett being there - hence why Emmett hurt his arm trying to force his way into the bunker. Howard got Michelle in there and was ready to seal up when Emmett told him there was an actual attack. It also explains why he's so short with Emmett throughout the film - when he knocks over the shelf of food, at the dinner table, and during the game they play. It's also why he cleans up and becomes a lot nicer when he's finally gone.

It's established that Howard knew an attack was incoming from monitoring radio signals, and even Michelle heard about unexpected rolling blackouts from the regular radio station, which Howard would have zeroed in on even more so. He knew there was an attack coming - which is why he wanted a girl to take into the bunker with him. Given his history, I don't think he'd want to be in there alone.

 

[Brakke]

Don't need to mark spoilers in this thread.

Especially not "alien attack" lol.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Meh. Completely misses the point. There are other ways to complete her story than the awful one they chose. If they wanted to show her learn to stop running away, she could've taken over the bunker instead of escaping it, she could've gone outside and decided to go back to look for survivors or go to rescue her fiance or whatever.

How is that article missing "the point?" Which point is it missing? The point she's arguing is the one made by people suggesting the film should have ended as she got out of the shelter, or said "Come on..." She's then explaining why that shortsighted suggestion is bad, considering what the ending provides from a storytelling perspective.

Plus, she specifically addresses why going back in/taking over the bunker is a bad storytelling choice in the article itself, and the ending basically is her going and looking for survivors. Going to help survivors, and fight aliens at the same time.

Also, "Michael Bay explosions" is not what happened there at the end. And to merrill's point, I have a hard time seeing how "shitty alien designs" is enough to ruin everything else about the film that is great. I don't even agree that the alien designs are "shitty."

 

[friskykillface]

Ending the movie with "come on" would have been the biggest tease and would have made me go D: since I wanted to see what would happen

or they could have saved the alien fight for the dvd/blu ray


either way would have been cool

 

[OniBarubary]

I was just impressed when she swung and lifted herself on the door frame over the acid. That takes some solid core strength.

 

[timetokill]

How is that article missing "the point?" Which point is it missing? The point she's arguing is the one made by people suggesting the film should have ended as she got out of the shelter, or said "Come on..." She's then explaining why that shortsighted suggestion is bad, considering what the ending provides from a storytelling perspective.

Plus, she specifically addresses why going back in/taking over the bunker is a bad storytelling choice in the article itself, and the ending basically is her going and looking for survivors. Going to help survivors, and fight aliens at the same time.

Also, "Michael Bay explosions" is not what happened there at the end. And to merrill's point, I have a hard time seeing how "shitty alien designs" is enough to ruin everything else about the film that is great. I don't even agree that the alien designs are "shitty."

I didn't say the alien designs were shitty?

The point she's missing is what I outlined in my previous post. I absolutely understood what they were trying to accomplish with their ending. But I think they wildly missed the mark. Yes, they couldn't just end the movie without resolving her character arc. But as writers they could have resolved that in a million ways that would've been better than this specific one. I'm not against aliens in general. I like movies with aliens. I WANTED to like this. But it was executed in such a poor, hamfisted manner that I simply couldn't. Even beyond the simple problems of blowing up an entire alien ship with a Molotov cocktail (and the eye-rolling cliche of throwing it into its mouth)... the movie gets worse at the end on a technical level as well. The acting becomes more forced, the editing gets worse, the pacing gets much worse... it just gets out of control.

People's reactions about the ending and basic suggestions about how to fix it are out of a feeling that the ending was unsatisfying, which I wholeheartedly think it was. Just because a lot of the suggestions are incomplete or don't address each thing doesn't change the fact that they're coming out of a feeling of dissatisfaction with an ending that lets down the audience after a fantastic film up to that point.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I didn't say the alien designs were shitty?

The point she's missing is what I outlined in my previous post. I absolutely understood what they were trying to accomplish with their ending. But I think they wildly missed the mark. Yes, they couldn't just end the movie without resolving her character arc. But as writers they could have resolved that in a million ways that would've been better than this specific one. I'm not against aliens in general. I like movies with aliens. I WANTED to like this. But it was executed in such a poor, hamfisted manner that I simply couldn't. Even beyond the simple problems of blowing up an entire alien ship with a Molotov cocktail (and the eye-rolling cliche of throwing it into its mouth)... the movie gets worse at the end on a technical level as well. The acting becomes more forced, the editing gets worse, the pacing gets much worse... it just gets out of control.

I really didn't see this, at all. I thought the performance was fantastic at the end, juggling relief, confusion, you-gotta-be-kidding me reactions, horror, and then the epiphany about the molotov. She had a lot to juggle as the conflicts evolved and she handled it deftly. No idea what you mean by editing worse. There's no quick cutting, no shaky-cam, the ship, alien and action are all filmed with a steady hand and fairly long shots. If anything I thought the editing accented how crazy things were getting by filming and cutting with sharp clarity, which was stylistically consistent with the rest of the film.

People's reactions about the ending and basic suggestions about how to fix it are out of a feeling that the ending was unsatisfying, which I wholeheartedly think it was. Just because a lot of the suggestions are incomplete or don't address each thing doesn't change the fact that they're coming out of a feeling of dissatisfaction with an ending that lets down the audience after a fantastic film up to that point.

The article addresses this - I don't think you are actually arguing against the central point she was making.

There’s no arguing with personal taste, or with viewers who walked into the film expecting something specific, and were frustrated when they didn’t get it. But the claim that the ending doesn’t fit the movie doesn’t hold water. It takes the story in a radically different direction, and parts of it strain credulity. But ultimately, it only expands on the themes developed in the first two acts. As outsized and strange as the ending is, it still fits precisely with what’s gone before.

 

[BorkBork]

Tasha Robinson at the Verge spelling out why the ending of this film is absolutely fucking necessary to the successful execution of the story.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/17/11255744/10-cloverfield-lane-movie-ending-backlash

There's a lot more at the link.

Thanks, this was great. I liked this revelation in particular:

Howard’s characterization isn’t the only crucial change Chazelle made. In Campbell and Stuecken’s original script, there were no aliens, and no final confrontation. According to a detailed script-vs.-script comparison at The Film Stage, in the original version, Michelle escapes the bunker, leaving Howard alive, but with a bullet in his kneecap. She drives toward Chicago, only to find the city destroyed. It’s an impersonal and cynical ending, fitting with the original script’s more impersonal and cynical treatment of Michelle, as more of a bystander and sex object than a hero. The script ends with her simply finding out Howard wasn’t lying. Given his protective nature and her own relative aimlessness, the script almost suggests she made a mistake in leaving the bunker in the first place.

I definitely got the theme of abuse she articulated in the piece. I didn't think about the notion of agency that she touched on. Throughout the entire time in the bunker, Michelle really had no choice. Yes, she was resourceful, brave, and clever, but always stuck in a reactionary position. If the movie ended with her just overcoming Howard and walking out, she wouldn't be in a position where she could freely choose what she wanted to do with her life.

The decision at the crossroads was vital to showcase that growth, and as the viewer going through this journey with her I can totally buy she can actually handle this shit on all levels. On the radio, they say they're looking for people with medical and combat experience - she now knows how to sterilize and stitch wounds, how to construct a defense against the alien fumigant using a shower curtain and plastic bottles, and knows what the alien ship weakpoints are. She can apply her personal trials and tribulations to the real world, no matter how crazy it is. That was so satisfying to watch I almost cheered at the end.

But it was executed in such a poor, hamfisted manner that I simply couldn't. Even beyond the simple problems of blowing up an entire alien ship with a Molotov cocktail (and the eye-rolling cliche of throwing it into its mouth)... the movie gets worse at the end on a technical level as well. The acting becomes more forced, the editing gets worse, the pacing gets much worse... it just gets out of control.

I personally preferred some schlock and cliche after the time in the bunker myself, because it's the contrast between the two sequences that clicked for me, but I think your criticism is fair if you feel it failed on an aesthetic level for you. But it sounds like you're letting that one sequence taint the rest of the film. Narratively and thematically the section works and is definitely not cliched. Would you have loved the film then if she downed the ship in a more believable and innovative way?

 

[Japanmanx3]

I was thinking the opposite - Howard captured Michelle because he thought something was happening. He was bolting home to get into the bunker, recognized the car from the gas station, and decided he wanted her there as his plaything if the surface was going to hell.

This.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I didn't say the alien designs were shitty?

I said "and to Merrill's point," not yours.

The point she's missing is what I outlined in my previous post.

That's not the point she's arguing, though. She's not missing it if it's not even there. She's directly addressing a completely different argument. You're acting like her counterargument fails somehow because it didn't also take into account your much more specific, and much less used, argument. That's all I was saying. She's not missing your point, she's just not addressing it, because it's not the majority criticism of the film.

That's beside the fact some of your suggestions for alternate takes contain ideas that are already present in the current ending.

I also disagree that the filmmaking got worse. Both her characterization, and her actions, and the direction, are all of a piece with what came prior. There was no real left-hand turn, I felt. It's starting to feel (not you, specifically time, just the general backlash Tasha's responding to) like there's some weird genre snobbery coming into play, somewhat counterintuively on the part of genre fans. Like it was okay to really dig this weird film with the Cloverfield name on it so long as it didn't get too weird, but as soon as actual aliens showed up it became lowbrow or something. The Michael Bay "splosions!" stuff specifically seems to point to that.

This guy has a barrel full of acid filled to the brim that he MELTS PEOPLE WITH just hiding in a cupboard below the sink. He can sludge after you like Emil from Robocop while shoving a knife through an air duct. But once an alien dog shows up, we're somehow violating some unspoken rule that the film itself isn't even playing by.

 

[Brakke]

I'm mostly just offended that you called those explosions Michael Bay-esque. Selling Michael Bay short, yo. Those were some Indianapolis cul-de-sac Fourth of July fireworks compared to what my boy MB puts out.

 

[timetokill]

My comparison to Michael Bay was not so much the quality of the explosions but the fact that the film felt it needed to explode a giant ship. It strained credulity in my opinion. It was like they felt they needed to up the ante to such a large degree, when the alien critter had already done that tenfold by itself.

I personally preferred some schlock and cliche after the time in the bunker myself, because it's the contrast between the two sequences that clicked for me, but I think your criticism is fair if you feel it failed on an aesthetic level for you. But it sounds like you're letting that one sequence taint the rest of the film. Narratively and thematically the section works and is definitely not cliched. Would you have loved the film then if she downed the ship in a more believable and innovative way?

I mean, I should say that I loved the film up that point. The bad ending didn't make me dislike the film as a whole. I'm not letting it taint the rest of the film, I'm just saying it was a massive letdown after a really brilliant film before that point.

I wasn't upset that there were even aliens in the thing. The ground alien was a perfectly deadly threat and was plenty in my opinion -- they honestly could have not had the ship and had her learn to face the alien (and resolve her character arc) and it would have been much improved.

I also disagree that the filmmaking got worse. Both her characterization, and her actions, and the direction, are all of a piece with what came prior. There was no real left-hand turn, I felt. It's starting to feel (not you, specifically time, just the general backlash Tasha's responding to) like there's some weird genre snobbery coming into play, somewhat counterintuively on the part of genre fans. Like it was okay to really dig this weird film with the Cloverfield name on it so long as it didn't get too weird, but as soon as actual aliens showed up it became lowbrow or something. The Michael Bay "splosions!" stuff specifically seems to point to that.

This guy has a barrel full of acid filled to the brim that he MELTS PEOPLE WITH just hiding in a cupboard below the sink. He can sludge after you like Emil from Robocop while shoving a knife through an air duct. But once an alien dog shows up, we're somehow violating some unspoken rule that the film itself isn't even playing by.

I can't really specifically point to technical issues without having the film in front of me to cut apart, but I know I saw several issues, editing in particular, that brought me out of the film whereas I hadn't had that reaction beforehand. And I recall the shot looking down from the ship's perspective, down at Winstead looking up holding the molotov, as being particularly iffy from an effects standpoint.

And I know you're not speaking to me about the genre thing, because as I said I enjoy alien films. The alien dog I thought was great, actually -- it wasn't until there was the giant ship she had to deal with that I thought it fell apart. I distinctly remember her hiding in the shed thing, seeing the dead girl, and thinking: "she's got to stand and fight, and stop running here!" for the story purposes.

Anyway, good discussion to all, it's been a fun debate and I've said my piece. I'll continue to read responses here but I don't want to belabor the point, I respect your opinions on it!

 

[Brakke]

Yo speaking of technical stuff. That shot when Michelle comes up to the common room for the first time and the camera spins and surveys the mandanity of the room: was that sweep total garbage? There was something really shitty about it on the IMAX. It was like jumpy or out of focus or something? I can't describe it but it hurt to look at.