• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

1UP: 13 Years of Treasure

Great article. This has to be the best special I have ever read at 1up. Good Stuff.

EDIT After I read the entire article. I felt that they were to harsh on Game Fan, and should have let the article just be about Treasure. To me their spill about Game Fan sounded more like elitist than an actual argument. But I agree with then that Treasure has had its fair share of bombs. Just like any developer in the industry.

Still a good read though.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Really good article.

Good to see all their games laid out like that as well, just shows what a refreshing developer they've been. Hope they can still find a place on the consoles next-gen though, and not get pushed more and more to the handhelds.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
It's a cute piece, but to be honest it doesnt say much. I want my treasure post mortem(well its not really a post mortem) to be in book form. I want heavy analysis into every game! One paragraph for Guardian Heroes is just not enough!

Anyway this article serves as a good cliff notes for the history of treasure though, better than most articles you read on gaming web sites.
 

Mr Jared

Member
sidnotcrazy said:
I felt that they were to harsh on Game Fan.

Not harsh enough if you ask me. GameFan was like a plague of the mind amongst gamers. The crack on GameGo! though actually had me laughing.

Well done, but it made me realize just how few Treasure games I actually enjoy.

Edit: Yes, I'm all surly on the haterade this morning. I didn't get a chance to eat breakfast before I left for the office so me so cranky ;p
 
The part about Gamefan loving a lot of games, including ones that weren't great at all, is so true. It was my favorite magazine but after I managed to get all the old issues again and re-read them, it's amazing how probably 9 out of every 10 games is gushed over like it's the second coming.

Not to mention their ridiculous claims like Donkey Kong Country 2 having "well over 100 hours of gameplay!"
 
Soundwave 2k4 said:
The part about Gamefan loving a lot of games, including ones that weren't great at all, is so true. It was my favorite magazine but after I managed to get all the old issues again and re-read them, it's amazing how probably 9 out of every 10 games is gushed over like it's the second coming.
I got that exact impression from reading the latest issue of Play. The funny thing is that Halverson doesn't even have an overt agenda to promote anymore, and he's still at it! :p

Also, nice, comprehensive article. It didn't have any bits of info I wasn't aware of, but I'm an obsessive freak on the subject anyway.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
yeah, he gushed over DQVIII like he did back when Final Fantasy VII came out, 100+!
 

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
this is the first i've heard that konami rejected a pitch for gunstar heroes. the article's a really good summing-up, anyway. it's nice to see persistent errors about "treasure developed konami games" dispelled in a mainstream publication.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
On a sadder note when I was working with Treasure producing Bangai-O, Stretch Panic and the Tiny Toons PS2 and GBA games they gave me a bunch of limited edition Radiant Silvergun stuff. A cap, a t-shirt, standee, sealed copy of the game signed by the whole team, a video of the arcade game.

And it all got burnt in an appartment fire that happened last year.

Mr. Maegawa sure likes his beer tho man.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The article is okay, but the Gamefan stuff - while true to a degree - does sound elitist. Also it sounds kind of ridiculous to insinuate that Gamefan was responsible for Treasure being "enshrined" - if that happened, it lasted only for a couple of years, because by the time the Genesis had passed Treasure was once again pretty obscure even with many hardKore gamers I know.

However, it is good to see Treasure on an upswing. Citing Gradius V as the big proof Treasure was back is on the money, and Gunstar Super Heroes (just picked it up today!) is the shiznit, and kicks Astro Boy's iron ass up one side of the street and down the other.

Now, I think, Treasure just needs some big, original title to finish carving out a new image for themselves. Though I wouldn't mind a remake/sequel to Dynamite Headdy.
 

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
jetjevons said:
On a sadder note when I was working with Treasure producing Bangai-O, Stretch Panic and the Tiny Toons PS2 and GBA games they gave me a bunch of limited edition Radiant Silvergun stuff. A cap, a t-shirt, standee, sealed copy of the game signed by the whole team, a video of the arcade game.

And it all got burnt in an appartment fire that happened last year.

Mr. Maegawa sure likes his beer tho man.


omigod. very sorry. one of the few times I felt the strings of envy pulling at me over a video game collectible.
 

vitaflo

Member
Kaijima said:
The article is okay, but the Gamefan stuff - while true to a degree - does sound elitist.

It's not elitist, it's just true. Halverson is the biggest Treasure fanboy on the planet.

Outstanding article, BTW.
 

Aruarian Reflection

Chauffeur de la gdlk
The GameFan obsession the writer has only distracted me from the rest of the article. If all that crap had been left out, this article would be great.
 

The End

Member
Out of curiosity, the article mentions "inaccuracies" in the GC version of Ikaruga. Other than the fact that the color saturation is a little washed out compared to the DC, I can't really see anything. What am I missing?
 

Tsubaki

Member
sp0rsk said:
One paragraph for Guardian Heroes is just not enough!

One paragraph on Guardian Heroes is MORE than enough. I'm not just saying that because I feel it's the worst Treasure game in my collection. But it is a total derivative work, even among their own games (ie Yu Yu Hakushou)

There is nothing special about it in any way.

The less time we spend on discussing it, the better off gamedom is in evolving to what it could be.
 
The End said:
Out of curiosity, the article mentions "inaccuracies" in the GC version of Ikaruga. Other than the fact that the color saturation is a little washed out compared to the DC, I can't really see anything. What am I missing?
I believe there's some weirdness regarding the music being out of sync with where it would be in the DC version (specifically with the launch in stage 1), and I *think* there might be some music quality issues.
 

Sapiens

Member
The gamefan bashing was hilarious.

I remember when ECM was pimpin' Gamego, he hit up all of the hardcore forums looking for support of his new magazine. It was fucking lame how he was everyone's best friend for a week, the he dissapeared. Nice guy, but what a fucking shill.

I worked at EB when Gamego was put out in the...Spring of 2001?? Yeah. Anyways, we had so many copies of that shit, and I refused to sell it to anyone. I just gave it away to good customers and friends - with a strict warning of the conent.

The mag was a little too hardcore. I got a kick out of some of the content, but it would never have worked.

Hahah, gamego.
 

Tsubaki

Member
Sapienshomo said:
(GameGO) was a little too hardcore. I got a kick out of some of the content, but it would never have worked.

Actually, my complaint about GameGO is that it wasn't hardcore enough. The games they discussed were for enthusiast gamers, which is right at home for me. They reviewed and previewed games that are very relevant to people who follow the Asian gaming scene (ie Lodoss DC, Klonoa 2 PS2, Sakura Taisen 3 DC, and Rhapsody of Zephyr DC - a port of a Japanese port of a popular Korean PC RPG).

My problem with the magazine is that the articles were way too fluffy. It "felt" like they were trying to stoop down to mainstream audience type of writing and superficiality, when their articles could have and should have been much more in depth. They were trying to appeal to both the hardcore and the mainstream, but fell flat on their face. You say their games were too niche. I say their writing depth is too shallow. They have no place with either group.
 

stewy

Member
Tsubaki said:
Actually, my complaint about GameGO is that it wasn't hardcore enough. The games they discussed were for enthusiast gamers, which is right at home for me. They reviewed and previewed games that are very relevant to people who follow the Asian gaming scene (ie Lodoss DC, Klonoa 2 PS2, Sakura Taisen 3 DC, and Rhapsody of Zephyr DC - a port of a Japanese port of a popular Korean PC RPG).

My problem with the magazine is that the articles were way too fluffy. It "felt" like they were trying to stoop down to mainstream audience type of writing and superficiality, when their articles could have and should have been much more in depth. They were trying to appeal to both the hardcore and the mainstream, but fell flat on their face. You say their games were too niche. I say their writing depth is too shallow. They have no place with either group.

I tend to agree with you there. We heard over and over again about how hardcore they were supposed to be, but outside of their choice of game coverage, they never really went for it like they could have. Whether that would have spelled success or not is debateable, but it would have been refreshing.

They spent too much time reminding us how hardcore they were compared to the rest of the gaming media without actually doing anything to show it.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Tsubaki said:
One paragraph on Guardian Heroes is MORE than enough. I'm not just saying that because I feel it's the worst Treasure game in my collection. But it is a total derivative work, even among their own games (ie Yu Yu Hakushou)

There is nothing special about it in any way.

The less time we spend on discussing it, the better off gamedom is in evolving to what it could be.


We are mortal enemies.
 

Sapiens

Member
argon said:
I hope they survive next gen, but I doubt they will.


I dunno. They seemed to survive just fine as a contract worker. I can see them producing lots of DS and PSP content. Seems like a natural fit for them. Keep working with Nintendo, Konami and Sega, and they'll be fine.
 

Sapiens

Member
Tsubaki said:
Actually, my complaint about GameGO is that it wasn't hardcore enough. The games they discussed were for enthusiast gamers, which is right at home for me. They reviewed and previewed games that are very relevant to people who follow the Asian gaming scene (ie Lodoss DC, Klonoa 2 PS2, Sakura Taisen 3 DC, and Rhapsody of Zephyr DC - a port of a Japanese port of a popular Korean PC RPG).

My problem with the magazine is that the articles were way too fluffy. It "felt" like they were trying to stoop down to mainstream audience type of writing and superficiality, when their articles could have and should have been much more in depth. They were trying to appeal to both the hardcore and the mainstream, but fell flat on their face. You say their games were too niche. I say their writing depth is too shallow. They have no place with either group.


See, that just means you are REALLY fucking hardcore, if gamego wasnt hardcore enough for you. The magazine had an article on the people who did the music for Final Fight CD! That's pretty hardcore to me. Fluffy written articles or not, the content was still hardcore, and I think my point stands. There was no way that they were trying to appeal to the mainstream. Everything from the way they promoted it to the contests (win a Neo Geo 2-MVS AES hyrbrid from !arcade! !!) stank of a magazine that wanted to sell to all the kids that post on forums like this.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
Gunstar was hardly a big-name title, so it didn't get much of an advertising push in any region. However, many players who discovered it became fast fans, and it benefited somewhat from word of mouth (not to mention the free Fruit Roll-Up packed in with the American release). Given its quality and quirky nature, it's no surprise that it soon found cheerleaders within the gaming press. One magazine in particular -- Die Hard GameFan -- would do a lot to influence players' perceptions of Treasure and its games, with the effects (and sometimes misinformation) lasting beyond the demise of GameFan itself.

It all started because GameFan really liked Gunstar Heroes. 20/20 hindsight shows that GameFan really liked a lot of games, some of which weren't very good. But it happened to be on the money with Gunstar, and did its best to promote the game to its decidedly hardcore readership. GameFan was so enthralled by Gunstar that it secured the first English-language interview with Maegawa, which was published in October, 1993.

Among the myths established in GameFan was that Treasure would not do sequels. As recent history has shown, this is not the case. Other fan-fueled rumors tied Treasure to the development of games like 1994's Contra Hard Corps (Genesis), 1989's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Arcade) and 1991's Sunset Riders (Arcade). In reality, Treasure staff had nothing to do with any of these, but in this age of instant information old rumors die hard.

Throughout the rest of the '90s, GameFan continued to be Treasure's number-one booster, greatly influencing the tastes of a generation of enthusiast gamers. The rest of the press followed at a respectful distance, but GameFan's blindly devoted advocacy was more than enough to enshrine Maegawa's little studio as an untouchable sacred cow in the minds of many. It goes without saying that the reality would prove considerably more complex.

This section proves to me that Ziff Davis is still bitter about GameFan's editorial that dissed EGM for lowering Strider 2's score based on difficulty. Does anybody remember that thing? It was downright brutal, hilarious, and true to the core.

I think Ziff Davis is just bitter that they haven't produced a magazine with the overall quality of GameFan and they still feel the need to take shots...

Outside of Che, Milkman, and Mark, I'm pretty disappointed with Ziff Davis pubs.
 

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
i don't think ben turner actually works for ziff, and he certainly didn't work for ziff 6 or 7 years ago. quite a theory, though.
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
If you guys want the look and the quality of GameFan, be sure to pick up a copy of Hardcore Gamer -- a magazine that also suffers from the "hardcore in name only" syndrome that GameGo had.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
chespace said:
If you guys want the look and the quality of GameFan, be sure to pick up a copy of Hardcore Gamer -- a magazine that also suffers from the "hardcore in name only" syndrome that GameGo had.


BUT THE PAPER IS SO GLOSSY!!!!!!!!
 
im not down with this GameFan bashing.

sure, some of the reviewers would go ape shit at times, but the magazine was always a million times more fun to read than anything out there. they had much better writers than any of the magazines around back then.

i wish they were still around. i'd love to hear what they think of this upcoming system way.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
phantomile co. said:
im not down with this GameFan bashing.

sure, some of the reviewers would go ape shit at times, but the magazine was always a million times more fun to read than anything out there. they had much better writers than any of the magazines around back then.

i wish they were still around. i'd love to hear what they think of this upcoming system way.


I got guardian heroes because of them, so they hold a special place in my heart.


HOWEVER!!

they also drove me to buy Bug!. And i hate them for it.
 

BenT

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
This section proves to me that Ziff Davis is still bitter about GameFan's editorial that dissed EGM for lowering Strider 2's score based on difficulty. Does anybody remember that thing? It was downright brutal, hilarious, and true to the core.
Hee hee. Sorry, I'm just a freelancer and have never even worked for ZD outside of 1UP. (But hey, if you ZD guys wanna help change that...) Anyway, all elitist and/or snarky opinions in the piece are my own and were not edited.

borghe said:
he certainly didn't work for ziff 6 or 7 years ago. quite a theory, though.
Correct. I was busy QuakeWorlding myself out of Penn State at the time.

sp0rsk said:
I got guardian heroes because of them, so they hold a special place in my heart.
I got a launch Jaguar because of them. -_-
 

vitaflo

Member
phantomile co. said:
sure, some of the reviewers would go ape shit at times, but the magazine was always a million times more fun to read than anything out there. they had much better writers than any of the magazines around back then.

I can't believe you just dissed Next Generation like that.
 
hey, i really love next-gen. but the GameFan was really a lot of damn fun to read, and they had great import coverage. i remember always waiting for the tuesdays when the new issue would come in.

we can also thank them for VOOT coming out in the states.
 

Mr Jared

Member
If you guys want the look and the quality of GameFan, be sure to pick up a copy of Hardcore Gamer -- a magazine that also suffers from the "hardcore in name only" syndrome that GameGo had.

Hardcore Gamer is a hundred times worse than GameFan could have ever hoped to be. One word: Jeremy.

I got a launch Jaguar because of them. -_-

Thank you Ben for giving the perfect example as to why GameFan was a plague. <3

(( Haterade~ ))
 

Milkman

Member
jetjevons said:
On a sadder note when I was working with Treasure producing Bangai-O, Stretch Panic and the Tiny Toons PS2 and GBA games they gave me a bunch of limited edition Radiant Silvergun stuff. A cap, a t-shirt, standee, sealed copy of the game signed by the whole team, a video of the arcade game.

And it all got burnt in an appartment fire that happened last year.

Mr. Maegawa sure likes his beer tho man.

Smak told me about that fire, Dan, and I'm still bleeding internally for you. Shit, that's just really shitty news. :(
 
vitaflo said:
I can't believe you just dissed Next Generation like that.
Me either.

Next Gen's Mag was great, professional, and full of quality, but it sure didn't come close to GameFan. I felt that Next Gen was trying to go for something like Gamefan, but less "over the top."

My upmost favorite issue of Next gen, was the one with MDK/How to get a job in the industry.
 

DjangoReinhardt

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Nice overview. Why the writer finds it necessary to mention GameFan is beyond me, though.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
I love reading about the import coverage in mags like Gamefan and Hardcore Gamer - if only cuz I'm so sick of paging through reviews and previews of licensed game/WWII shooter/FPS/sports game that fills up the so called 'other' mags. The writing content, on the other hand, does leave a bit to be desired, but it's a video game mag, not Charles Dickens for christ sakes!

Edit: Great article, BenT... seems you and I are mostly in line in our tastes on the Treasure games... I still haven't played an unbutchered version of Silhouette Mirage, though.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
Does anybody else find it just a tad depressing that Treasure realy hasn't worked on an orginal game since 2001 release of Ikaruga?
 

MarkMacD

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
This section proves to me that Ziff Davis is still bitter about GameFan's editorial that dissed EGM for lowering Strider 2's score based on difficulty. Does anybody remember that thing? It was downright brutal, hilarious, and true to the core.

I think Ziff Davis is just bitter that they haven't produced a magazine with the overall quality of GameFan and they still feel the need to take shots...

Outside of Che, Milkman, and Mark, I'm pretty disappointed with Ziff Davis pubs.

Thanks for the exception, I guess :) But just FYI, this was written by a freelancer who has never worked for Ziff, so it doesn't really fit into the conspiracy theory.

I'd add something about how stupid and wrong the Strider 2 thing was but if you think nothing has come up to the overall quality of GameFan it's kinda pointless....
 

JRPereira

Member
I found their review of alien soldier a bit disappointing. The things you could do in that game made it a step above gunstar heros imo.

Since they've apparently broke their rule against sequels, I'd really like to see them do a ps2 or 3 version of alien soldier.

I can't say I have a problem with them not having released an original game since ikaruga - however I'm kind of put off by the fact they they did gradius 5 and yet complained that ikaruga would be too hard to do on the ps2.

I do however really wish that they'd have worked on contra shattered soldier. That game is missing a lot of the emotion that contra 3 had. While the gameplay is good and such, they could've made the game feel much more alive. Instead, the animations and movement of the bosses felt very mechanical and the sound and music had nothing to get me going (all techno and generic weapon sounds).
 

Cosmozone

Member
Hey, didn't know that the TMNT arcade game was by them. I played it it once, had a great time. :)
Nice pic on the right BTW.
 
Top Bottom