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1up deducting points from Warhawk beause of price?

karasu said:
Why does everything have to be reduced to points? Use english mutha****as!
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I didn't get a PS2 until pretty late in its life (2006). When I did, the first thing I did was go to Gamespot and Gamerankings, and sort by score. Thanks to the magic of numbers, I have an at-a-glance view of about 30 games I know I'm safe to pick up on impulse if I spot one somewhere.

Reading the text for every review is impractical unless you're following everything from the beginning.
 
kaching said:
The only conspiracy theory I'm starting to form is the one that explains why all the loyal GAF lurkers from the 1up offices haven't addressed my question about what games have been released @ $40 that present so much more value than Warhawk does that it's score should be docked if it goes that high. I'm beginning to think the silence is studious. ;)
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You asked it like three times last night in the other thread, with that 1up guy in the thread. He didn't even acknowledge the question at all. I wouldn't expect an answer from them at all.
 
Oni Jazar said:
No. Warhawk has clan support, it doesn't have squad support in game. BF2's squad support hasn't been done on consoles. It allows a 60 player game become managable with groups of 6 man teams, each with their own squad leader, and all squad leaders listening to the team commander. Warhawk can't lick BF2's boot (and I've played both).

Warhawk also has less maps and vehicles. Modes are a wash as they are equal (TM, TDM, CTF, Zones). Character customizations I'll give you.
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Resistance has squad support :)

granted, it doesn't have role-based abilities and waypoint orders
 
DenogginizerOS said:
Battlefield 2 has fewer craft to fly than Warhawk.
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You can't be serious. BF2 has different air vehicles from jets (multiple), attack choppers and Blackhawks. Warhawk has warhawks. Decals and colors don't make them different.
 
Metalmurphy said:
I didn't quote you did i? I only responded to the "more maps" quote. Not true.

But are you really worried about quality in Warhawk? Been living under a rock?
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I'm not worried about its qualities. It was just a dumb thing to say and not a good way to highlight the games' qualities...
 
Oni Jazar said:
You can't be serious. BF2 has different air vehicles from jets (multiple), attack choppers and Blackhawks. Warhawk has warhawks. Decals and colors don't make them different.
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Don't think he was :P
 
I AM JOHN! said:
I can't believe some of the stupidity that's going on in this thread.

PRICE = VALUE, AND THIS IS UN-****ING-DEBATABLE

Wanna know how I know this? Because value is subjective, and determined by many factors, such as how much bang you get for your buck. Obviously, Joe Rybicki thinks that the game is fun, but doesn't provide as much value at $40 than it would at $30. It's as simple as that. Much like Nick Sutter (the guy who reviewed Shadowrun for 1UP) thought that said game provided enough value for his $60, while the other EGM reviewers (Shoe and someone else) thought it wasn't. Reviews are subjective; value is subjective. Simple.

It's unreal how the lot of you think that gaming should take place in a goddamn vaccum; that the only thing that should be considered about a game is how fun it is. Let's look at Katamari Damacy - it's a great game, sure, but would you have paid full price for it? I sure wouldn't have. And do you really think that it would've been so well-regarded had it not been $20? No chance in hell, as the majority of reviews mentioned that it's a great deal at that price. Simply put, price, like many things, is part of value, and trying to say that you think the game shouldn't be scored down for it because you think that the game is enough of a value is absolutely ridiculous.

Thanks again for raising my blood pressure through the roof, GAF.
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Then why didnt Shadowrun get any point deducted when the game had less content and no headset for the same price? I wouldnt have the same problem if they deducted point for all games and not just for this one.

From what I have read some 1up reviews only mention wether or not the game is worth it in a paragraph, they didnt deduct points from the score based on the price.
 
Oni Jazar said:
No. Warhawk has clan support, it doesn't have squad support in game. BF2's squad support hasn't been done on consoles. It allows a 60 player game become managable with groups of 6 man teams, each with their own squad leader, and all squad leader listening to the team commander. Warhawk can't lick BF2's boot (and I've played both).

Warhawk also has less maps and vehicles. Modes are a wash as they are equal (TM, TDM, CTF, Zones). Character customizations I'll give you.
Click to expand...

I've played BF2 extensively, no need to tell me what it has ;)
http://bf2s.com/player/44345359/

I just remember an interview where it was said you could join Squads in warhawk. Maybe i'm remembering wrong.

It doesn't have more maps, even if you count all the excessive booster packs. Warhawk has around 25 maps iirc, BF2 has 12 + boosters.

It still has more modes, even if you think they're a wash.
 
theBishop said:
I didn't get a PS2 until pretty late in its life (2006). When I did, the first thing I did was go to Gamespot and Gamerankings, and sort by score. Thanks to the magic of numbers, I have an at-a-glance view of about 30 games I know I'm safe to pick up on impulse if I spot one somewhere.

Reading the text for every review is impractical unless you're following everything from the beginning.
Click to expand...


Okay, but that doesn't mean it's necessary to lower or raise the score based on a games launch price. Just mention the price in plain English and leave the points for gameplay, graphics, sound, longevity, etc.
 
Oni Jazar said:
You can't be serious. BF2 has different air vehicles from jets (multiple), attack choppers and Blackhawks. Warhawk has warhawks. Decals and colors don't make them different.
Click to expand...

The functionality of Warhawks make them quite versatile though, basically allowing them to fill the roles of both attack helicopters and fighter jets.
 
Oni Jazar said:
You can't be serious. BF2 has different air vehicles from jets (multiple), attack choppers and Blackhawks. Warhawk has warhawks. Decals and colors don't make them different.
Click to expand...

Brown paper bag it. There are a greater number of craft available to fly in Warhawk. In BF2, the number of vehicles available to fly is less than the number in Warhawk. Whether I am flying a Blackhawk or a pink magic carpet is not what I am talking about; I am referring to the number of vehicles available per team.
 
kaching said:
The only conspiracy theory I'm starting to form is the one that explains why all the loyal GAF lurkers from the 1up offices haven't addressed my question about what games have been released @ $40 that present so much more value than Warhawk does that it's score should be docked if it goes that high. I'm beginning to think the silence is studious. ;)

Edit: All the debate you're having internally seems to be overwrought. You're problem isn't philosophical, it's institutional. You've made the choice to factor price into review score - fine. So if a publisher doesn't provide you the price for their game, you simply don't review the game until the price is announced. You're problem is that you aren't being consistent with your review policies.
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Your concerns were noted long ago. We should have something that addresses that very specifically for you soon (I run news, not reviews!) , but I can't be the one to provide that via GAF, sorry. :)
 
Souplak said:
Then why didnt Shadowrun get any point deducted when the game had less content and no headset for the same price? I wouldnt have the same problem if they deducted point for all games and not just for this one.

From what I have read some 1up reviews only mention wether or not the game is worth it in a paragraph, they didnt deduct points from the score based on the price.
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A) Because the reviewer thought that it was worth the $60 asking price. Again, value is subjective.
B) Kennedy has already stated that they're reviewing the game as a stand-alone product, without the headset.

I love how the Warhawk Defense Force's primary arguments are "BUT YOU CAN GET A VERSION WITH A HEADSET!!!" and "WELL I THINK IT'S WORTH $40 SO 1UP CAN GO **** ITSELF!". What part of the word "subjectivity" are you clowns not understanding?
 
If everyone here already knows Warhawk is a good game... then why do you guys care so much about what some guy at 1up.com thinks? It is only one review.
 
karasu said:
Okay, but that doesn't mean it's necessary to lower or raise the score based on a games launch price. Just mention the price in plain English and leave the points for gameplay, graphics, sound, longevity, etc.
Click to expand...

that's exactly what I said on page 8.

The score should only reflect the quality of the game. The text can mention the 'value' if there's a lack of content or if there's an abundance of content for a low price.

Look at the long view: when you read about great films or albums, does anyone talk about whether they were a good value?
 
Oni Jazar said:
No. Warhawk has clan support, it doesn't have squad support in game. BF2's squad support hasn't been done on consoles. It allows a 60 player game become managable with groups of 6 man teams, each with their own squad leader, and all squad leaders listening to the team commander. Warhawk can't lick BF2's boot (and I've played both).

Warhawk also has less maps and vehicles. Modes are a wash as they are equal (TM, TDM, CTF, Zones). Character customizations I'll give you.
Click to expand...

less maps and you discredit warhawk for having additional modes on top of zones? i sense a bias here. the controls for the warhawk a lone puts a lot of bf2 to shame. i highly doubt you played it.
 
So basically given a long enough time when the actual $ value of a game decreases by so much, it will become a perfect 10. :lol
 
eXxy said:
Your concerns were noted long ago. We should have something that addresses that very specifically for you soon (I run news, not reviews!) , but I can't be the one to provide that via GAF, sorry. :)
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Awesome, thanks. Wouldn't have spammed these threads with the same question so many times if someone had just said that in first place!
 
Metalmurphy said:
I've played BF2 extensively, no need to tell me what it has ;)
http://bf2s.com/player/44345359/

I just remember an interview where it was said you could join Squads in warhawk. Maybe i'm remembering wrong.

It doesn't have more maps, even if you count all the excessive booster packs. Warhawk has around 25 maps iirc, BF2 has 12 + boosters.

It still has more modes, even if you think they're a wash.
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This rings a bell with me to.
 
kaching said:
Awesome, thanks. Wouldn't have spammed these threads with the same question so many times if someone had just said that in first place!
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Sometimes I work instead of trolling GAF. ;)

theBishop said:
Is that a score on the quality of their explanation, or the value?
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:lol
 
Metalmurphy said:
I've played BF2 extensively, no need to tell me what it has ;)
http://bf2s.com/player/44345359/

I just remember an interview where it was said you could join Squads in warhawk. Maybe i'm remembering wrong.

It doesn't have more maps, even if you count all the excessive booster packs. Warhawk has around 25 maps iirc, BF2 has 12 + boosters.

It still has more modes, even if you think they're a wash.
Click to expand...

I played the hell out of BF2. I dont' think my rank is that high though because I played mostly on the Tactical Gamer servers which were unranked (kept the rank whores out). I also played the Warhawk beta which supposedly was more or less the full game content wise minus a few minor changes made post beta.

Warhawk has 5 distinct locations, BF2 has 15.

In terms of modes they are a wash. BF2 has DM, TDM, CTF and Conquest. Warhawk has DM, TDM, CTF and Zones.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much looking forward to Warhawk and it does offer a unique experience but it doesn't have more content then BF2.
 
DenogginizerOS said:
I rate 1up's efforts to explain themselves a 3.417/29.
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But you can visit their site for free! Score is now +25

exXy said:
Sometimes I work instead of trolling GAF. ;)
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There are others from 1up. capnsmaks could've responded the first three times I asked last night :p
 
Oni Jazar said:
I played the hell out of BF2. I dont' think my rank is that high though because I played mostly on the Tactical Gamer servers which were unranked (kept the rank whores out). I also played the Warhawk beta which supposedly was more or less the full game content wise minus a few minor changes made post beta.

Warhawk has 5 distinct locations, BF2 has 15.

In terms of modes they are a wash. BF2 has DM, TDM, CTF and Conquest. Warhawk has DM, TDM, CTF and Zones.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much looking forward to Warhawk and it does offer a unique experience but it doesn't have more content then BF2.
Click to expand...

Am I missing something? I played BF2 exclusively for about 6 months and I never played anything but Conquest...
 
theBishop said:
Is that a score on the quality of their explanation, or the value?
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There are many levels. Too many to explain. It is sophisticated and you are going to just have to accept that it is based on my opinion and move on.

But I will share one aspect of my genius. I take into account their avatars. Some of their avatars create a sense of dread in my tummy and so I have instructed my editor that unless I AM JOHN changes his avatar, the score will stay the same. However, if he changes to a picture of Clint Eastwood or someone of equal badassness, then I have enclosed special instructions to increase the score by a level of 2.5 points.
 
kaching said:
But you can visit their site for free! Score is now +25

There are others from 1up. capnsmaks could've responded the first three times I asked last night :p
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I'm pretty sure Sam went drinking by himself after that thread.
 
I AM JOHN! said:
A) Because the reviewer thought that it was worth the $60 asking price. Again, value is subjective.
B) Kennedy has already stated that they're reviewing the game as a stand-alone product, without the headset.

I love how the Warhawk Defense Force's primary arguments are "BUT YOU CAN GET A VERSION WITH A HEADSET!!!" and "WELL I THINK IT'S WORTH $40 SO 1UP CAN GO **** ITSELF!". What part of the word "subjectivity" are you clowns not understanding?
Click to expand...

You're calling people clowns now? Oh wait... clowns > party > friends > joy > sorrow > Napalm > Sweet tooth. OMG TM Black 2 ps3 online with as many modes, p2p/dedicated servers/lan/4p split while online, custom maps, and bundled with cotton candy and balloons! This is going to be sweet
 
DenogginizerOS said:
Brown paper bag it. There are a greater number of craft available to fly in Warhawk. In BF2, the number of vehicles available to fly is less than the number in Warhawk. Whether I am flying a Blackhawk or a pink magic carpet is not what I am talking about; I am referring to the number of vehicles available per team.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about unique content not the number of planes that spawn on the map.
 
My concern is how are they reviewing 2 different SKUs?

If they feel the $60 for the retail version is justified (and imo it definitely is) but the download version is $40, and they feel thats too much, then how the hell do you review that?
 
Karma Kramer said:
If everyone here already knows Warhawk is a good game... then why do you guys care so much about what some guy at 1up.com thinks? It is only one review.
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Come on, if I turn this around and make this about a game you're very interested in (even moreso than the AWESOME WOWHAWK@$30ORLESS) you could utter the rejoinder in your sleep: sufficiently poor scores can harm the chances for successors to games we like. As enthusiast gamers, is it really any surprise that we'd challenge inconsistent review policies for the harm they can do in that regard?
 
theBishop said:
Am I missing something? I played BF2 exclusively for about 6 months and I never played anything but Conquest...
Click to expand...

You know what? You may be right. I remember BF1942 having CTF but now I'm not sure if standalone BF2 had more then Conquest. I still feel strongly that BF2 had a hell of a lot more content then Warhawk does and I'm glad that Warhawk is getting a budget/bundle release.
(*Paging FartOfWar*)
 
Metalmurphy said:
I've played BF2 extensively, no need to tell me what it has ;)
http://bf2s.com/player/44345359/

I just remember an interview where it was said you could join Squads in warhawk. Maybe i'm remembering wrong.

It doesn't have more maps, even if you count all the excessive booster packs. Warhawk has around 25 maps iirc, BF2 has 12 + boosters.

It still has more modes, even if you think they're a wash.
Click to expand...


This was all I can find.

Warhawk.jpg
 
DenogginizerOS said:
There are many levels. Too many to explain. It is sophisticated and you are going to just have to accept that it is based on my opinion and move on.

But I will share one aspect of my genius. I take into account their avatars. Some of their avatars create a sense of dread in my tummy and so I have instructed my editor that unless I AM JOHN changes his avatar, the score will stay the same. However, if he changes to a picture of Clint Eastwood or someone of equal badassness, then I have enclosed special instructions to increase the score by a level of 2.5 points.
Click to expand...
Can I have that 2.5 now? :lol
Ploid 3.0 said:
You're calling people clowns now? Oh wait... clowns > party > friends > joy > sorrow > Napalm > Sweet tooth. OMG TM Black 2 ps3 online with as many modes, p2p/dedicated servers/lan/4p split while online, custom maps, and bundled with cotton candy and balloons! This is going to be sweet
Click to expand...
Confirmed :lol
 
kaching said:
what games have been released @ $40 that present so much more value than Warhawk does that it's score should be docked if it goes that high.
Click to expand...

Earth Defense Force 2017?

I don't believe a game should be docked significantly for having a higher price. A good game is a good game. If Warhawk is good (and it is) it should be recommended even if the price is $10 too high. I wish we could do away with arbitrary numbers and just have a Buy/Don't Buy system.

If you like multiplayer gaming, buy Warhawk.
 
Oni Jazar said:
In terms of modes they are a wash. BF2 has DM, TDM, CTF and Conquest. Warhawk has DM, TDM, CTF and Zones.
Click to expand...

What the Hell?!?! BF2 has DM, TDM and CTF?!?!

What the hell am I doing wrong? I played weeks upon weeks straight of the game and never played anything other than conquest.
 
I AM JOHN! said:
I love how the Warhawk Defense Force's primary arguments are "BUT YOU CAN GET A VERSION WITH A HEADSET!!!" and "WELL I THINK IT'S WORTH $40 SO 1UP CAN GO **** ITSELF!". What part of the word "subjectivity" are you clowns not understanding?
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The part where he's trying to tell the other reviewer how to score the game?

You want to explain that "sujective" part again?
 
So how come the headset is now only worth $20 to everyone that hates 1up? The article very clearly says they are operating under the assumption it's a $40 headset. How is it not justified to feel gipped if the game is $40 in that case?
 
I just gotta double back to something here:

I AM JOHN! said:
PRICE = VALUE, AND THIS IS UN-****ING-DEBATABLE

Wanna know how I know this? Because value is subjective
Click to expand...
So...
Price = Value, and
Value = Subjective, which means...

Price=Subjective

I knew it! I knew prices on the box were just a "guideline"

Sales Clerk: "That'll be $60"
Me: "Yeah, No. I'm going to go ahead and pay...$Free"
Sales Clerk: "You can't do that"
Me: "Sorry dear, price is subjective, AND THIS UN-****ING-DEBATABLE"
 
kaching said:
I just gotta double back to something here:

So...
Price = Value, and
Value = Subjective, which means...

Price=Subjective

I knew it! I knew prices on the box were just a "guideline"

Sales Clerk: "That'll be $60"
Me: "Yeah, No. I'm going to go ahead and pay...$Free"
Sales Clerk: "You can't do that"
Me: "Sorry dear, price is subjective, AND THIS UN-****ING-DEBATABLE"
Click to expand...

Wow. Bravo. :lol :lol :lol
 
v0yce said:
The part where he's trying to tell the other reviewer how to score the game?

You want to explain that "sujective" part again?
Click to expand...
You misunderstood. From what I've gathered, Joe has already submitted his review, with the cavaet that should the game be priced over $30, he wants his score lowered by a point.

Could this whole thread be one hilarious misunderstanding?

kaching said:
I just gotta double back to something here:

So...
Price = Value, and
Value = Subjective, which means...

Price=Subjective

I knew it! I knew prices on the box were just a "guideline"

Sales Clerk: "That'll be $60"
Me: "Yeah, No. I'm going to go ahead and pay...$Free"
Sales Clerk: "You can't do that"
Me: "Sorry dear, price is subjective, AND THIS UN-****ING-DEBATABLE"
Click to expand...
:lol :lol :lol
 
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