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[Pinko Marx]

This is like complaining about curse words in Gangsta Rap Music.
Its sort of the fucking point.

 

[Open Source]

I've become increasingly prudish on video game violence as I get older.

As a game designer, it's part of my job to understand and influence people as they play my game, incentivizing them to play in ways that they will enjoy. Having gruesome, realistic violence both a goal and a reward in itself, even if its targets are only sort of human, seems like unethical design.

I mean, what is the goal here? To make the player think to himself, "I just inflicted horrible, unimaginable pain on a living being" while also feeling the thrill of reward and accomplishment as the grisly scene plays out? What kind of person would want to cause the combination of those thoughts, sights, and feelings in other people?

 

[ReaperXL7]

When I saw these this morning my only reaction was

Lots of reason that I love the series, but the over the top brutality is the whipped cream on a delicious ice cream sunday.

I can understand why people would get turned off by it, but Greek Mythology is filled with violence, and the brutality of Kratos makes sense for his character. I'm sure Jaffes love of "twisted" shit helped a great deal aswell.

Why they sent this guy to a God of war even is beyond me though, because it's clear he had issues with the violence before hand without even seeing it for himself till now.

 

[Chuck Norris]

I didn't deny it was always gory, I deny it was why people played and enjoyed them, that it was core to it's popularity, that it was a selling point.

Well its definitely not the reason why, but I definitely think its a bullet point. The games wouldn't be the same without some of those gory finishes. Imagine every enemy including bosses went up in a puff of smoke after you landed your last hit on them. The game would feel totally different

 

[thetrin]

No it wouldn't. Especially if they're telling their experience to steak lovers.

Do you read articles purely for circle jerks, or do you actually have any interest in hearing about how people who aren't like you think?

I've become increasingly prudish on video game violence as I get older.

God, I think I am too. As I said earlier, I'm getting more and more embarrassed with gratuitous violence in gaming as I get older.

 

[thetrin]

shit! dp

 

[Ocaso]

Didn't bother me, its just a video game.

I hope this line of thinking fades into obscurity at some point during my lifetime. Videogames have as much capacity to be moving or disturbing as any other media. Hand waving does nothing to advance any argument.

I actually felt a similar sense of unease while watching Helios' head ripping as well, though the context is different from this scene, as I noted above. Hyper-violence is certainly part of what makes the franchise appealing, but as this article illustrates, the line between "Awesome!" and "WTF?" is rather thin and being approached ever more evidently.

 

[Luigiv]

There was always gore, just because they have the technology now to make it freakishly real-looking doesn't make it pretentious.

What? Pretentious? Who the fuck used the word pretentous? Who said the series hasn't always been gorey? Did you even read my reply before replying back?

The fact remains, the level of gore porn here is on a completely different level to how it was in the original games. The gore has undeniably exculated, the reasoning is irrelevent, your original argument that the series "has always been this way" is objectively wrong. Someone can have played earlier games and stil have been shocked by this.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I kind of get the what the editorial is trying to get across, but it's kind late to call out the series or feel sympathy for a cyclops of all enemies when Kratos unabashedly tears the head off a human boss in GoW 3 with his bare hands and then proceeds to use it as an item like a flashlight.

Honestly, I was more disturbed by that puzzle in God of War 1 where you have to sacrifice the guy in a cage by burning him alive to solve a block puzzle.

While I really enjoyed GoW1 and GoW2, the gore in GoW3 was so over the top at the time that it seemed really juvenile. It didn't help that the story was quite awful. Honestly, I think God of War was one of those games that didn't need to be turned into a franchise. I like the first game and think it stands well on its own.

 

[chickdigger802]

Funny enough, don't recall anyone posting about the awesome gore porn of this series in the thread I started today.

Is the gory QTE's really that 'essential' to gameplay and story? I recall kratos is suppose to be angry right?

Isn't this a prequel? Shouldn't the man be less angry or something?

 

[antonz]

I think the only real issue is when does it cross the line. They basically have to keep one upping themselves with each entry to try and keep it fresh doing the same stuff each entry.

 

[i-Lo]

Well as long as he doesn't review the game...

Anyway, I can completely understand the difference in opinion from that guy despite the hyperbole.

I am an individual who is really uncomfortable around gore in films or real life but not in games. I guess my mind can differentiate given we haven't reached photorealism yet.

GoW has always been about graphic violence, a little bit of sex and a whole lot of screaming. As such, if people can't embrace for what it is and think it's gratuitous then they can refrain from either buying or wasting their time discussing it.

Last time I checked, not everything is meant to appeal to everyone and not all of those things are needed to be "dumbed-down" or "casualised" for mass market. That kind of sacrifice bears down on artistic vision and freedom.

 

[SunhiLegend]

Moar. Give me Moar

 

[Derrick01]

IMO the puzzle in GoW1 in which the solution is to

Spoiler

burn the caged Greek solider alive as he begs for his life

was more violent and disturbing than any of this crap or GoW3's worst moments.

Absolutely. It's not as big on the gore but it's easily more dark and twisted than anything in god of war 3 or this that people are whining about.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Do you read articles purely for circle jerks, or do you actually have any interest in hearing about how people who aren't like you think?

This is a "preview." You don't send someone who finds a basic element of the game obnoxious to write a "preview."

 

[Amir0x]

This is a game that is partially about reveling in the brutality behind the very nature of these myths. There is an undeniable energy and vibrancy to the attacks because of how fierce it is, and it would be a lesser series if it pussied out.

In my opinion, actually, they should be even more brutal and bloody. No limits of violence plz. Censorship, self-or-otherwise, exit stage left ->

 

[Snuggles]

Do you read articles purely for circle jerks, or do you actually have any interest in hearing about how people who aren't like you think?

If only the author could stop being a pussy and just tell us how awesome and visceral the footage was. I've got hype gifs to post, dammit!

 

[beast786]

Honestly, that's a terribly juvenile response.

I guess your panties are in a twist because someone dared critique your new darling instead of listing it's core features and waxing lyrical about how great the blood looked.

I am sure my panties got twisted because he just realized that The 6th game in series of GOW is gory. yet no complain when shattering head shots in every FPS or decapating bodies in Gears of war.

how are your panties?

 

[Raoh]

lol

When I saw these this morning my only reaction was

We are ready

 

[Tookay]

God, I think I am too. As I said earlier, I'm getting more and more embarrassed with gratuitous violence in gaming as I get older.

I definitely am as well. I know this is going to be by a flurry of posts from fans saying it's "over-the-top" and "then it's not for you," but I honestly think that game designers (like Open Source) need to think about the rewards and feedback behind these decisions, as well as what extremely popular games like this are communicating to the rest of the population about us.

Yes, playing as an angry dude getting vengeance on dick gods who betrayed him obviously has allows for a threshold of violence much higher than other games, but I feel like GOW has crossed a line into almost unknowing parody of itself. Kratos has become pretty much an unsympathetic dick himself at this point that it's hard for the game to justify this sort of brutality narratively.

 

[GhostWriter24]

It's just puzzling that a person who's preconceived notions of the GoW series are already negative would be sent to do the website's preview. Really unprofessional.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

This is a "preview." You don't send someone who finds a basic element of the game obnoxious to write a "preview."

Why not? What does a preview have to consist of in your view?

People complain constantly about how previews are just press releases. They offer no real honesty or insight. There's no reason to read one person's preview over another. They exist solely to stoke your game boner. There's no shortage of them, so who cares if this one was different?

It's just puzzling that a person who's preconceived notions of the GoW series are already negative would be sent to do the website's preview. Really unprofessional.

Same question to you. Are you saying it's only "professional" to send someone who has positive preconceived notions about a game to preview it?

 

[Drencrom]

I want my GoW games with over the top violence and action, please keep it that way.

 

[ReaperXL7]

I think the only real issue is when does it cross the line. They basically have to keep one upping themselves with each entry to try and keep it fresh doing the same stuff each entry.

Thats probably the real issue for SSM with GOW. People expect them to try and top themselves with the kills, but if they did not, or did not atleast attempt to, people would complain about that just as much if not more than this.

Obviously I did not live in the days of spartans, but I could imagine that combat was not a pretty thing when your spearing people, and slicing them up with swords. This is a game set in greek myth, so obviously like the myths it's based on it will take things to a different extreme than it would have been in real life though.

 

[benny_a]

Again, I think my opinion on the subject has changed wildly as I've gotten older. A couple years ago, I would have agreed that it's good fun, and we shouldn't care. I still think it's just fun and it's no big deal, but I'm now at the stage where it DOES disturb me that a group of grown people are cheering at a scene of dudes pulling a monster's eye out with a hooked chain. Not because I find it gross, or because I think it's damaging to the human psyche.

But that's the beauty of it being all fictional. Nobody is actually getting hurt.
Not even 100 Sony events that have a crowd of people cheering at Kratos for ripping off some dude's arm or hair or leg is as bad as one crowd of people cheering at a group of people beating an old man up.

I think it's pretty much established in psychology that consuming violent media is having an effect on people's aggression immediately after consuming said media.
What has also been demonstrated is that overall reported crime goes down if you offer something to do that speaks to the demographic with violent tendencies.
For example I remember reading a study (with predictive power) that showed decreased crime on release days of violent movies and no further statistically higher increase of violence the subsequent days.
Same with a Canadian study that concludes that easy access to porn reduces the rate of reported rape. I don't remember the methodology of the latter but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

And I'm not a fan of God of War. I wish Sony Santa Monica would make a AAA game in a different genre.
Overall I think they should do more Journey, less God of War.

 

[dominuece]

I've become increasingly prudish on video game violence as I get older.

As a game designer, it's part of my job to understand and influence people as they play my game, incentivizing them to play in ways that they will enjoy. Having gruesome, realistic violence both a goal and a reward in itself, even if its targets are only sort of human, seems like unethical design.

I mean, what is the goal here? To make the player think to himself, "I just inflicted horrible, unimaginable pain on a living being" while also feeling the thrill of reward and accomplishment as the grisly scene plays out? What kind of person would want to cause the combination of those thoughts, sights, and feelings in other people?

I think the goal is that they can't lower the amount of violence in comparison to GOW3. Maybe they don't want to "alienate fans" aka lose sales. This is disturbing because where does a dev. draw the line?

If violence is such a selling point though, why not let the player choose how much violence to inflict? "You don't have to skewer the giant eyeball, you can just pluck an eyelash out and stick it in there. Because yeah...that's uncomfortable."

 

[chickdigger802]

It's just puzzling that a person who's preconceived notions of the GoW series are already negative would be sent to do the website's preview. Really unprofessional.

Well it's not like they could have sent Matt Leone to this...

I'd probably have love to read a Parish preview on GoW though.

 

[Derrick01]

It's just puzzling that a person who's preconceived notions of the GoW series are already negative would be sent to do the website's preview. Really unprofessional.

Well it's one thing to be excited for it and another to just go and cover the game like a normal journalist should. I think the cheering and applause is equally juvenile as his whining as they come off as fanboys.

But to know that you have a problem with the gore in the past games and then go to this and be "shocked" at the gore is just....fucking DUH. What did you think was going to happen?

 

[Ocaso]

Honestly, I watched the presentation before reading his comments and thought the same thing. The last time I felt that uncomfortable about a game was, ironically, playing the GOW3 demo with some friends and one of our girl friends walked in the room during the infamous Helios scene. The awkward silence that followed sort of made me realize how how it basically serves as nothing more than a juvenile power fantasy and how desensitized to this sort of thing I had become.

So I knew what I was getting into watching this footage, but seeing the player slash a chained creature's jaw open and then having his buddies pry its eye so they can stab it rubbed even my desensitized self the wrong way. Did it really need to go there? It just sort of feels sadistic at this point.

Great post. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that a part of me doesn't think the spectacle on display isn't impressive. It is, but there was something about the way the cyclops shied away from the attacks, the way his eye seemed to tremble as he was forced to watch himself be blinded that seemed almost designed to elicit discomfort. It's really great that 1up sent someone not enamoured of the series to report on it because his point of view really does put this violence into perspective.

 

[Aske]

A vegetarian writing about a steak tasting would be honestly a fascinating read.

Yes, it would. But not in lieu of a steak publication's typical report, wherein readers reasonably expect a steak enthusiast with access to the steak tasting to pass on his thoughts to a readership of fellow enthusiasts who could not attend the event. This is especially true if the vegetarian author uses the article as a soapbox to question the morality of steak consumption and casts aspersions on the mental health of the readership.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Why not? What does a preview have to consist of in your view?

People complain constantly about how previews are just press releases. They offer no real honesty or insight. There's no reason to read one person's preview over another. They exist solely to stoke your game boner. There's no shortage of them, so who cares if this one was different?

Let me reiterate: the franchise has always been like this. Nothing has changed.

Anyway, a good majority of the game probably won't even be as gory as those few minutes of gameplay we saw today.

 

[volpone]

It's not the absurd violence that has put me off this series. It's the level of detail put into its depictions of suffering and pain and how counter-productive it is from my perspective (I can only guess the player is meant to empathise with Kratos).

 

[antonz]

Im actually kinda curious how they get away with it all. ESRB seems to let them slide with alot of stuff I am guessing smaller publishers would be getting AO on.

 

[Arnie]

I am sure my panties got twisted because he just realized that The 6th game in series of GOW is gory. yet no complain when shattering head shots in every FPS or decapating bodies in Gears of war.

how are your panties?

Your quite nonsensical to be honest. I'm genuinely wondering if you've read the article through or if you've just attached yourself to the generalisation that the author is hating on God of War because it's gory. Which is most certainly not the point.

 

[trinest]

So, do we say "What's so bad about the violence?" or go the "Stupid Americans and their ultra-violence but censored sexuality" route.

I'm going to go with the "who the hell eats peeled GRAPES route".

 

[SLEEPS7ALK3R]

How fucking pretentious to post a century old "classic" experimental film by one surrealist movement artist to make a point about violenz in vidjagaemz.
It's God of War, a videogame based on an epoch of violence. There's not supposed to be anything high-brow or tasteful about it.

 

[MYE]

Honestly, I watched the presentation before reading his comments and thought the same thing. The last time I felt that uncomfortable about a game was, ironically, playing the GOW3 demo with some friends and one of our girl friends walked in the room during the infamous Helios scene. The awkward silence that followed sort of made me realize how how it basically serves as nothing more than a juvenile power fantasy and how desensitized to this sort of thing I had become.

So I knew what I was getting into watching this footage, but seeing the player slash a chained creature's jaw open and then having his buddies pry its eye so they can stab it rubbed even my desensitized self the wrong way. Did it really need to go there? It just sort of feels sadistic at this point.

Well, at least she didnt walk in during one of the sex mini-games lol

 

[i-Lo]

It's not a God of War convention though. These aren't supposed to be fans, per se, they're meant to be journalists. They're meant to ask questions, they're meant to shed light and they're meant to explain what they saw. This preview is far more interesting than the barrage of indentikit, bullet point, PR resembling previews already circling the internet.

I'm glad someone's asking the painfully obvious question associated with this particular franchise, and many others. Doesn't mean I completely agree with him.

Unfortunately, this is NOT journalism rather an opinion formed as a part of his reaction to the unveiling. As a journalist, you are supposed to be up to date about a franchise you are about to cover instead of being on the sidelines. When I read that he was only "peripherally" aware of GoW, it raised the question on what genre of games does he generally cover. As a journalist, it is your job to ask technical questions pertaining to workings of the product and how the devs are ensuring that it'll live up to their sales pitch. It is baffling when a journalist asks why a factor that acts as an identifier of the franchise is the way it is. That question is 6 games too late and is irrelevant.

 

[watership]

There is so much press about a game that's a least a YEAR away. Full multiplayer gameplay even. This might be a stroke of genius by Sony.. or I wonder if they blew their load too soon.

 

[benny_a]

It's not the absurd violence that has put me off this series. It's the level of detail put into its depictions of suffering and pain and how counter-productive it is from my perspective (I can only guess the player is meant to empathise with Kratos).

I don't think so. He is a clearly unreasonable protagonist.
Maybe I'm interpreting too much into the game, but I think there are scenes in God of War 3 where Kratos is in no immediate danger and there are scenes where you could do nothing and just leave it be and it would be fine.
But there is a shiny button prompt that is just waiting for you to be pressed.
You have to press it to continue but it will not be pretty.

There is a little bit of redemption at the end of the saga though but it's like the saying "even a wrong clock is right twice a day."

 

[Chuck Norris]

Perhaps the other 3 guys at 1up had even less experience with God of War?

 

[bomma_man]

The first game I ever played that really turned me off in it's voilence was Manhunt. I'm sure many are fimiliar with that game. In it you stealthy try to brutualy murder people hired to hunt you in a snuff film motif. The game's atsmohpere is incredibly dark and the tools to kill people are screwdrivers not guns. I was about 12 and I could not handle it. I put the game that I actually thought was pretty decent down, because it was physcially exhusasting. The game had too much voilence and was incredibly graphic.

That was the point of Manhunt though, it was meant to make you question your actions. Making horrific violence the payoff for skilful play was meant to make you think twice about games like GOW where you're meant to revel in the violence, where ridiculous gore is some kind of reward.

I kind of see Manhunt as the gaming equivalent of Cronenburg's History of Violence.

The response by some people in this thread to some genuine critical analysis is depressing, and why gaming criticism is such a cesspit.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Let me reiterate: the franchise has always been like this. Nothing has changed.

Anyway, a good majority of the game probably won't even be as gory as those few minutes of gameplay we saw today.

You're answering a different question than what I asked, and reiterating a point that I already argued against.

You are right that we shouldn't assume that the violence in the preview is typical of the level of violence throughout the game.

 

[Riggs]

Concerned about GoW gore .... Comical. It's god of war what the Hell does anyone expect? Love this series, bring it on SM love you guys.

Also sounds like the guy never even played GoW 3. That explains a lot, he writes this long whining arguement about sadism and torture porn. But he didn't even know what he was getting into before hand. Why is this guy even involved in this industry? I swear half of gaf knows more about games then these game journalists. It's funny, most of us have probably played more games then these guys and its their job to be familiar with games. Sorry getting off track, but a grown man getting so uncomfortable about video game violence makes me wonder why the Hell you even do what you do for a living.

Not saying you have to be down with crazy violence to be a game journalist, his whole point of view just makes me laugh. Just getting my digs in guys don't go mental on me!

 

[Pachterballs]

Btw wake me up when some guy goes on a murder spree and blames it on god of war violence/trained how to kill via playing god of war.

 

[Ocaso]

I think the goal is that they can't lower the amount of violence in comparison to GOW3. Maybe they don't want to "alienate fans" aka lose sales. This is disturbing because where does a dev. draw the line?

If violence is such a selling point though, why not let the player choose how much violence to inflict? "You don't have to skewer the giant eyeball, you can just pluck an eyelash out and stick it in there. Because yeah...that's uncomfortable."

I mentioned it before, but I'll repeat it because I think a lot of people are still missing a key point. The context in which this violence is taking place is very different from anything that had previously been seen in the series. Kratos has impaled quite a few eyeballs in his day, but always to aggressors, agents who were actively trying to kill him. Kratos was the instigator in most of these battles, but nonetheless, the enemies were always capable of defending themselves. As a prisoner, this Cyclops is essentially being ruthlessly murdered in one of the most horrible ways imaginable. As the writer notes, the animation appears to convey that the Cyclops would be more than happy to run away if he could, and that is part of what makes the scene unsettling.

Before anyone brings it up, no I'm not suggesting Kratos should just tie up his enemies before offering them terms of surrender. And yes, I know he (rather quickly) murders innocent citizens many times. This is a violent series, Kratos is out for blood, and gore is part of conveying those intentions. The issue is that, either intentionally or unintentionally, this scene does not appear to convey violent justice or vengeance, but rather morbid sadism.

 

[elcapitan]

My main issue with the article is that its an opinion piece masquerading as a preview. He calls the violence tasteless and insinuates that people who enjoy it have bad taste to the very readers who are just looking for information on the game, as a preview should do.

Violence one of the most primitive forms of expression and I think God of War captures it beautifully. Violence is inherent and universal to all of us, and I think God of War intentionally reaches into us and tries to draw out that savagery. There's a cathartic satisfaction to tearing mythical creatures apart.

I don't think it's juvenile, it's just primitive.

Since video games graphics still haven't reached that uncanny valley, I'm still fine. Most people can make that distinction between reality and pretend, and its that distinction that allows us to enjoy it. I guess some people are unable to maintain distinction with realistic graphics, but don't call the rest of us that do "manchilds" or "juvenile."

 

[coldfoot]

If you did not have a problem with the itchy&scratchy show in the Simpsons (and that was on broadcast TV during the day), you should not have a problem with the GOW violence.
The over the top violence is payback for the enemy who made you sweat the controller before beating it, so it's satisfying for many people who play the game.
Still, the best violent moment in the series for me is the GOW2 Theseus' death. It felt so good after that super annoying boss fight.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

The violence in Manhunt was there to make the player question themselves.

GOW just seems gratuitous and childish; violence to distract from its shallowness as a game compared to similar games. Kinda like torture porn movies.

Totally agree.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Yes, it would. But not in lieu of a steak publication's typical report, wherein readers reasonably expect a steak enthusiast with access to the steak tasting to pass on his thoughts to a readership of fellow enthusiasts who could not attend the event. This is especially true if the vegetarian author uses the article as a soapbox to question the morality of steak consumption and casts aspersions on the mental health of the readership.

I'd say that's a far better alternative to another preview saying "Yep. It's steak. It's so and so ounces and will own bones. I've got my steak preorders ready at GameStop™"