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[Chris Tilton]

it's never even been confirmed that kojima was talking about filling a 50 gig disc. i mean, that would make it one of the biggest--in terms of space--games ever. come on, now.

I really don't understand how (if true) all 50GB are used unless there's just hours and hours of pre-rendered HD video, which the MGS series never has (except in the case of those stock footage history lessons). In order to load and/or stream the world, you need to get your assets to be as small as possible while still looking high quality. So, even if you felt like being super lazy about your compression, and just filled your disc with super high-quality, barely compressed assets, the streaming speed and the RAM on the PS3 would never be able to keep up with assets taking up so much space.

The only way I can think of to fill up the disc would be during the many non-interactive cinematics, in which you could have an uncompressed 7.1 audio stream. At about 115MB/min for a 24/96K 7.1 stream, you'd have to have almost 6 hours of cinematics to get to about 40GB. While, this is certainly a possibility, it is completely unnecessary to have a high quality audio experience in the game.

 

[scoobs]

<<< MARCH BIRTHDAY CONFIRMED

 

[evlcookie]

<<< MARCH BIRTHDAY CONFIRMED

Same 2 days, how exciting :/

 

[HK-47]

I really don't understand how (if true) all 50GB are used unless there's just hours and hours of pre-rendered HD video, which the MGS series never has (except in the case of those stock footage history lessons). In order to load and/or stream the world, you need to get your assets to be as small as possible while still looking high quality. So, even if you felt like being super lazy about your compression, and just filled your disc with super high-quality, barely compressed assets, the streaming speed and the RAM on the PS3 would never be able to keep up with assets taking up so much space.

The only way I can think of to fill up the disc would be during the many non-interactive cinematics, in which you could have an uncompressed 7.1 audio stream. At about 115MB/min for a 24/96K 7.1 stream, you'd have to have almost 6 hours of cinematics to get to about 40GB. While, this is certainly a possibility, it is completely unnecessary to have a high quality audio experience in the game.

Kojima doesnt care if its unneeded. If he can give 7.1 audio stream why the fuck not. However his complaints about the disc not being big enough is exaggerating to the extreme

 

[Kintaro]

7.1 uncompressed audio in a game like MGS4 makes my dick hard. High quality audio in gaming is so overlooked. Uncharted for example, sounds head and shoulders above any console game I've played this gen. I honestly can't fuckin' wait and I wish more studio would/could do it.

 

[bud]

I really don't understand how (if true) all 50GB are used unless there's just hours and hours of pre-rendered HD video, which the MGS series never has (except in the case of those stock footage history lessons). In order to load and/or stream the world, you need to get your assets to be as small as possible while still looking high quality. So, even if you felt like being super lazy about your compression, and just filled your disc with super high-quality, barely compressed assets, the streaming speed and the RAM on the PS3 would never be able to keep up with assets taking up so much space.

The only way I can think of to fill up the disc would be during the many non-interactive cinematics, in which you could have an uncompressed 7.1 audio stream. At about 115MB/min for a 24/96K 7.1 stream, you'd have to have almost 6 hours of cinematics to get to about 40GB. While, this is certainly a possibility, it is completely unnecessary to have a high quality audio experience in the game.

it's probably a 25 gigger. too bad, it would've been nice if they'd put the japanese language track on the same disc--50 gigs is more than enough for that. lame.

 

[Jag22]

Really have to hand it to Shane. After listening to about an hour of the show, he has been acting great. Really cut down on the interruptions. Just all around more toned down.

Very nice.

 

[Chris Tilton]

Kojima doesnt care if its unneeded. If he can give 7.1 audio stream why the fuck not. However his complaints about the disc not being big enough is exaggerating to the extreme

Oh of course. If the space is there, and you can have better quality audio, then by all means use it. My point was really more that the Blu-ray disc is likely not needed to say, perhaps have the game come out on other systems. If they came out with a 360 version with 16/48 5.1 Dolby Digital, it'll still be a great game, and entirely possible.

 

[Zombie James]

7.1 uncompressed audio in a game like MGS4 makes my dick hard. High quality audio in gaming is so overlooked. Uncharted for example, sounds head and shoulders above any console game I've played this gen. I honestly can't fuckin' wait and I wish more studio would/could do it.

I think it's great that games are supporting this. I may not be able to enjoy it now (stereo, lulz), but i'll be glad they put in the effort when I can.

 

[Chris Tilton]

I think it's great that games are supporting this. I may not be able to enjoy it now (stereo, lulz), but i'll be glad they put in the effort when I can.

It is, but it should be noted that the only want to take advantage of it, is to have an HDMI enabled receiver. It is the ONLY way to get 7.1 uncompressed audio out of the PS3. If you don't have that, it just goes down to the standard dolby digital compressed 5.1 (which the 360 uses). How many people here have their PS3 hooked up to an HDMI receiver before going to their TV? I don't, and I'm an audiophile and in the industry! I'll be that not many have that setup.

 

[PARANO1A]

7.1 uncompressed audio in a game like MGS4 makes my dick hard. High quality audio in gaming is so overlooked. Uncharted for example, sounds head and shoulders above any console game I've played this gen. I honestly can't fuckin' wait and I wish more studio would/could do it.

I take it you don't understand the difference between uncompressed and lossless compression?

Uncompressed audio is just pointless buzz that adds no value other than to say "our game is really big".

 

[rollingstart]

That was a good podcast. 4 minute warning is always awesome. Will continue to listen to the Insomniac podcast and the addition of Bryan to that will be good. I wonder how long now until Shawn leaves to work for Relic.

 

[aeolist]

Shawn was a lot better this week than last.

Actually everybody was really good this week. Kudos guys.

 

[HK-47]

Is there much Brawl talk? I'm surprised they havent talked about it at all

 

[Kintaro]

It is, but it should be noted that the only want to take advantage of it, is to have an HDMI enabled receiver. It is the ONLY way to get 7.1 uncompressed audio out of the PS3. If you don't have that, it just goes down to the standard dolby digital compressed 5.1 (which the 360 uses). How many people here have their PS3 hooked up to an HDMI receiver before going to their TV? I don't, and I'm an audiophile and in the industry! I'll be that not many have that setup.

I will have one by the time MGS4 hits. I'll enjoy it. All I care about. =P The rest can enjoy it in 5.1 or stereo. Whatever works. I, for one, appreciate it.

I take it you don't understand the difference between uncompressed and lossless compression?

Uncompressed audio is just pointless buzz that adds no value other than to say "our game is really big".

I understand it just fine. Thanks. Assume your way elsewhere.

 

[BobM]

Shawn was a lot better this week than last.

Actually everybody was really good this week. Kudos guys.

Shawn is always good.

 

[fistfulofmetal]

Someone explain to me what skip does while the show is running, and why he can't just be on the show?

 

[Reilly]

Someone explain to me what skip does while the show is running, and why he can't just be on the show?

He monitors shit. It's like why producers of radio shows rarely speak.

 

[HK-47]

oh boy the "lol smash no fighten gaem" thought process

-_- It'll never win, will it

 

[rollingstart]

Someone explain to me what skip does while the show is running, and why he can't just be on the show?

Juggles chainsaws.

 

[BobM]

Is there much Brawl talk? I'm surprised they havent talked about it at all

Yes. You will be happy

 

[DuckRacer]

Is there much Brawl talk? I'm surprised they havent talked about it at all

They talk about it some but not very in-depth.


And I agree Shawn was tons better than this week than the last few.

 

[witness]

Shawn seemed a lot more energetic and into it this week, which is always great.

Interested to see who will be the 2 special guests for next week will be, I'm hoping for Jeff and Crispin

 

[MickeyKnox]

A digital distribution only model (on consoles) is not going to fucking happen anytime soon if ever. In fact, by the time the technology and infrastructure is there to support a DD model that can match physical media on every feature point, the entire personal computing/gaming space will be so radically fucking different from where we are now it essentially seals the deal on console gaming as we know it never being DD only.

 

[aeolist]

Shawn is always good.

He's good on the Brodeo but last week on 1up Yours he didn't say much and just wasn't very involved. He spoke up a lot more this time though and added a ton to the show.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Walking dead for the fucking win! Shawn is now my favourite 1upper, no contest.

Great show so far, but I'm very drunk and may have to go to bed before I boke over my computer. Finish tomorrow when I may actually have a chance of remembering what has been said.

 

[SapientWolf]

A digital distribution only model (on consoles) is not going to fucking happen anytime soon if ever. In fact, by the time the technology and infrastructure is there to support a DD model that can match physical media on every feature point, the entire personal computing/gaming space will be so radically fucking different from where we are now it essentially seals the deal on console gaming as we know it never being DD only.

Well, like you said, the only thing holding it back is technology, so it's inevitable. When high speed internet is as ubiquitous as phone lines, procedural generated content is able to keep file sizes (relatively) small, and HDs are measured in TB instead of GB it will be a no brainer.

But it's not going to happen overnight. It will be a gradual shift.

 

[rollingstart]

I was just thinking about it, but next week would be awesome if special guests were Jeff Green and Sean (or Ryan). It would be two GFW shows in one week except Garnett would be the special guest in one.

 

[LJ11]

A digital distribution only model (on consoles) is not going to fucking happen anytime soon if ever. In fact, by the time the technology and infrastructure is there to support a DD model that can match physical media on every feature point, the entire personal computing/gaming space will be so radically fucking different from where we are now it essentially seals the deal on console gaming as we know it never being DD only.

I haven't listened to the podcast, will do so later, but pure DD is pretty far away because retailers will never stand for it. What's their cut on a PS3/Wii/360, $10-$15 on each unit? They probably make $15 on each game. Peripherals have nice mark ups, but the games are where they bank money. IF you take the games away what incentive do they have to give you shelf space? Unless you're willing to give them a bigger piece of the hardware pie, which is pretty tough to do if you're taking losses on the hardware, it's going to be an issue with retailers.

Retailers and technological barriers are pretty big hurdles for digital distribution on consoles.

 

[aeolist]

I haven't listened to the podcast, will do so later, but pure DD is pretty far away because retailers will never stand for it. What's their cut on a PS3/Wii/360, $10-$15 on each unit? They probably make $15 on each game. Peripherals have nice mark ups, but the games are where they bank money. IF you take the games away what incentive do they have to give you shelf space? Unless you're willing to give them a bigger piece of the hardware pie, which is pretty tough to do if you're taking losses on the hardware, it's going to be an issue with retailers.

Retailers and technological barriers are pretty big hurdles for digital distribution on consoles.

Consumer electronics stores will sell consoles even if games go all-digital. They can add-on all sorts of A/V equipment, cables, and console peripherals to make the sale worthwhile.

Gamestop will be screwed but I sincerely doubt anyone will mourn them.

 

[LJ11]

Consumer electronics stores will sell consoles even if games go all-digital. They can add-on all sorts of A/V equipment, cables, and console peripherals to make the sale worthwhile.

Gamestop will be screwed but I sincerely doubt anyone will mourn them.

Cables and peripherals, which they already sell anyway, won't get them back all that lost revenue. I'm sure Sony/MS/Nintendo will offer up point cards (like they do now) to retailers, but you're cutting a huge revenue stream for them by going pure DD. They will resist, and definitely use shelf space as leverage, it's the only leg they have to stand on.

 

[LakeEarth]

I agree with Shane 100% when it comes to downloading DLC straight from the game. I hate having to go through the PSN Store or the XBL Marketplace trying to find something, both are pretty shitty and need a search option.

I don't understand why there isn't a "Marketplace" option in the main menu for Rockband. I'm pretty sure they did it in GH2 360.

 

[aeolist]

Cables and peripherals, which they already sell anyway, won't get them back all that lost revenue. I'm sure Sony/MS/Nintendo will offer up point cards (like they do now) to retailers, but you're cutting a huge revenue stream for them by going pure DD. They will resist, and definitely use shelf space as leverage, it's the only leg they have to stand on.

Lost revenue? It's Sony and Microsoft that take losses on hardware, not Best Buy and Circuit City. They make relatively small profits, but having game systems for sale brings people into the store, and at that point they can be sold additional higher-margin add-ons. They also don't make a lot of money off of games since they don't sell used, so I doubt they'd really mind digital distribution all that much.

 

[Y2Kev]

Lost revenue? It's Sony and Microsoft that take losses on hardware, not Best Buy and Circuit City. They make relatively small profits, but having game systems for sale brings people into the store, and at that point they can be sold additional higher-margin add-ons. They also don't make a lot of money off of games since they don't sell used, so I doubt they'd really mind digital distribution all that much.

Yeah, they make like 50% of their revenue on used games. You can't trade in DD-acquired games. So what is making up this completely eliminated revenue?

edit: This is specifically GameStop and other speciality stores, I don't know of the big box retailers would even care.

 

[PARANO1A]

I will have one by the time MGS4 hits. I'll enjoy it. All I care about. =P The rest can enjoy it in 5.1 or stereo. Whatever works. I, for one, appreciate it.



I understand it just fine. Thanks. Assume your way elsewhere.

So possibly you can explain why you're more excited about uncompressed audio vs losslessly compressed?

Somewhat earlier you said:

7.1 uncompressed audio in a game like MGS4 makes my dick hard. High quality audio in gaming is so overlooked. Uncharted for example, sounds head and shoulders above any console game I've played this gen. I honestly can't fuckin' wait and I wish more studio would/could do it.

:lol at your "it makes me hard" comment when you don't even have a setup to experience it. How can you quantitatively make a comment about how it makes games better unless you have experienced it? So the uncompressed Uncharted sound you heard converted to your non-uncompressed audio setup is somehow an improvement?

 

[aeolist]

Yeah, they make like 50% of their revenue on used games. You can't trade in DD-acquired games. So what is making up this completely eliminated revenue?

edit: This is specifically GameStop and other speciality stores, I don't know of the big box retailers would even care.

That's my point. Gamestop is totally screwed in this model so they'd hate it, but they can't stop it because publishers want to cut out the middle man and non-specialty stores just don't give a shit.

Personally I'll be glad to see them go.

 

[Flavius]

Really tough for me to stick with tradition and hold off listening to this until my Monday morning hellish commute.

On a related note, Skip, I want to thank you for freaking the hell out of me on my ride home from work today. Didn't have anything new to listen to, so I popped in an old 1up Yours show from November of 2006 in which, oddly enough, you guys were talking about the EGM scale (this was after Shoe had given Gears a 10 and you guys had pulled the Neverwinter Nights 2 review). I was listening to John discussing it, then all of the sudden I heard this voice that I couldn't place.

Luke? No.

Shane? No.

Garnett? No.

I replayed it a half dozen times, wondering all sorts of crazy things, like maybe one of the guys was doing an impression? Were my ears playing tricks on me? Had one of my buddies gone to extreme lengths to play a trick on me by splicing in a random audio file and reburned the disk?

On the 11th or 12th time listening, it finally dawned on me that it was you speaking...and finally, the world made sense again.

Long story short...you need to talk more.

 

[skip]

Really tough for me to stick with tradition and hold off listening to this until my Monday morning hellish commute.

On a related note, Skip, I want to thank you for freaking the hell out of me on my ride home from work today. Didn't have anything new to listen to, so I popped in an old 1up Yours show from November of 2006 in which, oddly enough, you guys were talking about the EGM scale (this was after Shoe had given Gears a 10 and you guys had pulled the Neverwinter Nights 2 review). I was listening to John discussing it, then all of the sudden I heard this voice that I couldn't place.

Luke? No.

Shane? No.

Garnett? No.

I replayed it a half dozen times, wondering all sorts of crazy things, like maybe one of the guys was doing an impression? Were my ears playing tricks on me? Had one of my buddies gone to extreme lengths to play a trick on me by splicing in a random audio file and reburned the disk?

On the 11th or 12th time listening, it finally dawned on me that it was you speaking...and finally, the world made sense again.

Long story short...you need to talk more.

haha, I remember that show.

on a related note, new segment in monday's EGM Live that I'm hosting: "showdown"

feedback req'd.

 

[Haeleos]

aeolist your avatar is really annoying. I tried reading what you wrote but I couldn't because my left eye hurt.

 

[LJ11]

Lost revenue? It's Sony and Microsoft that take losses on hardware, not Best Buy and Circuit City. They make relatively small profits, but having game systems for sale brings people into the store, and at that point they can be sold additional higher-margin add-ons. They also don't make a lot of money off of games since they don't sell used, so I doubt they'd really mind digital distribution all that much.

The big box stores don't care about Sony or Microsoft losses, they care about their own bottom line. It's not the retailers responsibility to design profitable hardware. Game consoles bring in videogame fans, if you have no games to sell them what keeps them coming back after you've sold them add-ons and cables ? I can see people going back for point cards, but new games on store shelves is what drives traffic.

Basically with a pure DD model, they lose that ~$15 cut on each game (it adds up after a while) and gain absolutely nothing, because they're already in the business of selling add-ons and peripherals. So they're only losing in a DD model. Retailers will show resistance, who knows to what extent. The only weapon they have against console manufacturers is shelf space.

Sony/Nintendo/MS leverage their product to gain more shelf space all the time. Nintendo: You want more Wii's, sell/order more DS's. Sony did the same with PSP allocations. It's give and take. We'll see how it plays out, it will be interesting to say the least. I would love a DD model.

 

[aeolist]

The big box stores don't care about Sony or Microsoft losses, they care about their own bottom line. It's not the retailers responsibility to design profitable hardware. Game consoles bring in videogame fans, if you have no games to sell them what keeps them coming back after you've sold them add-ons and cables ? I can see people going back for point cards, but new games on store shelves is what drives traffic.

Basically with a pure DD model, they lose that ~$15 cut on each game (it adds up after a while) and gain absolutely nothing, because they're already in the business of selling add-ons and peripherals. So they're only losing in a DD model. Retailers will show resistance, who knows to what extent. The only weapon they have against the console manufacturers is shelf space.

Sony/Nintendo/MS leverage their product to gain more shelf space all the time. Nintendo: You want more Wii's, sell/order more DS's. Sony did the same with PSP allocations. It's give and take. We'll see how it plays out, it will be interesting to say the least. I would love a DD model.

They will gain all the Gamestop market share when they go out of business. I imagine that much more traffic and saved shelf space would more than make up for the loss of game sales.

 

[LJ11]

They will gain all the Gamestop market share when they go out of business. I imagine that much more traffic and saved shelf space would more than make up for the loss of game sales.

Yeah, gaining marketshare in the low/tiny-margin hardware market (they already have too many low margin products to begin with) and losing a market that brings in 20-25%+ margins is exactly what they're clamoring for.

 

[Spire]

Good show. Everyone was on their game, even Shane was under control.

 

[aeolist]

Yeah, gaining marketshare in the low/tiny-margin hardware market (they already have too many low margin products to begin with) and losing a market that brings in 20-25%+ margins is exactly what they're clamoring for.

Electronics stores care about traffic. Gamestop has a huge market share. When Gamestop goes under that market share will start shopping elsewhere.

These other stores are literally giant traps that are extremely effective at selling stupid people (which, it turns out, will be about 50-80% of any given group of humans) high-margin items. Trust me, I've worked in retail for years, I know how it works.

Therefore all they care about is traffic, because getting people into the store is the biggest problem they have these days, after they're in the mechanisms for relieving them of their money are already in place. Best Buy would see DD as a godsend. It means more warranties sold on hardware, more TVs (and accessories) sold to gamers, more services like in-home installations, and more people who will think to themselves "well, I do need to get some [CDs/batteries/printer paper/any one of a million tiny miscellaneous items that are where the real money lies]".

Plus they get more shelf space for stuff that is higher-margin than boxed games. It's win-win for them.

 

[No_Style]

He's good on the Brodeo but last week on 1up Yours he didn't say much and just wasn't very involved. He spoke up a lot more this time though and added a ton to the show.

I believe it's just an adjustment thing. Once he gets into the groove of 1UP Yours it'll be all good!

Still haven't listened to this week's yet...

 

[Woo-Fu]

He's good on the Brodeo but last week on 1up Yours he didn't say much and just wasn't very involved. He spoke up a lot more this time though and added a ton to the show.

new dog in the pack, they're still in the butt-sniffing stage.

 

[The Faceless Master]

just watched the pre-show... september? really garnett?

 

[J-Rzez]

While, this is certainly a possibility, it is completely unnecessary to have a high quality audio experience in the game.

Oh well, glad people like you don't have a say in this stuff, and ruin it for others at the expense of having features removed so it can make it on another machine. People need to stop crying, and buy both machines, which, will result in further less crying cause you'll get the game either way.

You only have 5.1 audio? I remember the days when I had to make due too though, so I feel with those people.

 

[LJ11]

More TV's to gamers? Where did gamers buy their television sets before? Gamestop? Forget I even brought this up, you win.

 

[beelzebozo]

You only have 5.1 audio? I remember the days when I had to make due too though, so I feel with those people.

j-rzez: man of the people. empathetic to the beleaguered.