• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

2.5 million Xbox 360s have been reported defective

We always had a 3 year warranty in Sweden, it's regulated through law and covers manufacturers error( 3 RROD is a good example of that).

But in no way am I going to buy a 360 until they have taken care of their crappy hardware solution. I do not want to go through the hassle of waiting weeks to get my console replaced, nor do I want support a company that makes it into a business.
It's about a moral stand.

How the hell can you be all happy and giggly about the extended warranty and think that all problems are now solved? Like someone said, this is just a band-aid on a brain tumor.
 
Crayon Shinchan said:
Better now than before Christmas I'd think.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but this is sewing the 'common knowledge' that 360 isn't a reliable piece of kit that they'll have to somehow address if that characterisation isn't to linger in the minds of many more folks than it did just yesterday. I guess they can always hope people might forget about it by xmas, which is possible..but I think that depends on their response with design rather than warranties, which we'll see over the next few months I suppose.
 
gofreak said:
I don't know..google news is a awash with headlines that ought to have MS folk wincing. Whilst they may be successful in quelling a backlash among their hardcore base, they've simultaneously had to expose their problems more broadly, to a probably less forgiving audience who haven't already made any investment in the platform, and who probably aren't more inclined to do so on the back of news like this.
Click to expand...
True. However, I'd wager that the core demographic for the 360 just doesn't care. I mean, I still have a hard time believing it, but the prevalence of the problem really came on quick. It was a rumbling like with the PS2 for a while, then it suddenly became THE thing to talk about (I'm sure Sony has its stealth involvement in that). The problem seems as widespread as I remember the NES cart slot problems being. And saying all of that, the 360 userbase has been very tolerant of the problem. I think it's a temporary embarassment that will be somewhat overshadowed by E3 announcements and completely forgotten by the time Halo3 comes out. PEACE.
 
tjhooker said:
This is brand suicide for the XBox brand.

Consumers never forget a bad product.

I very much doubt there will be an XBox 3.
Click to expand...

...

great, another name to add to the ignore list. I never thought it would get to the number it's got, but with the recent threads we've had ...
 
once the claims of defective goes down (with new new designs) and number of great games hit the market (halo 3, mass effect, lost odyssey, etc), no one will remember/care about this fiasco.
 
Maximilian E. said:
People will also want to play Halo3... but what to do?
Now with the extended warranty, people will at least feel safer and still be able to enjoy the games that comes out...
Click to expand...

Don't engage and feed into tjhooker. You don't know about this particular poster by now?
 
Pimpwerx said:
True. However, I'd wager that the core demographic for the 360 just doesn't care. I mean, I still have a hard time believing it, but the prevalence of the problem really came on quick. It was a rumbling like with the PS2 for a while, then it suddenly became THE thing to talk about (I'm sure Sony has its stealth involvement in that). The problem seems as widespread as I remember the NES cart slot problems being. And saying all of that, the 360 userbase has been very tolerant of the problem. I think it's a temporary embarassment that will be somewhat overshadowed by E3 announcements and completely forgotten by the time Halo3 comes out. PEACE.
Click to expand...

As I was saying, I don't think it's the core existing userbase that they need worry about.

I don't really know what the impact of stories like this getting out there is, but I doubt it can be a good one, at least in the short term. In the long term, it'll depend on how well MS addresses the problem on a design-level, like I said. If people are still reporting broken 360s, be they newly covered by 3 year warranties or not, it will perpetuate and worsen the image of the system as unreliable. If they can fix it comprehensively, they give a chance for people to forget.

But I do think that this issue will be a footnote in any 360-related coverage among the mainstream for some time to come, just as PS3's balance-busting impact on Sony's last quarter still pops up in reports re. it. They were wise to get it out of the way before E3, though..their message would have been entirely drowned out by it otherwise, at least beyond vg news outlets.
 
Piper Az said:
once the claims of defective goes down (with new new designs) and number of great games hit the market (halo 3, mass effect, lost odyssey, etc), no one will remember/care about this fiasco.
Click to expand...

If you are old/senile/fanboy then yes.

If not, then theres no way in hell consumers are going to forget it when Microsoft releases their next console. People are going to be very careful.
 
gofreak said:
Agreed, but this is sewing the 'common knowledge' that 360 isn't a reliable piece of kit that they'll have to somehow address if that characterisation isn't to linger in the minds of many more folks than it did just yesterday. I guess they can always hope people might forget about it by xmas, which is possible..but I think that depends on their response with design rather than warranties, which we'll see over the next few months I suppose.
Click to expand...
it'll also depend on how good a job microsoft's timing here is.

they've obviously attempted to 'bury' it. this time next week we could be looking at a price dropped 360... for example.

but they are going to have to do a lot of work to avoid a rep of broken equipment. e3 is going to be interesting.
 
I noticed a third of all the 360 units on sale on Ebay were defective. I've never seen so many defective consoles being sold at such astronomical prices. Microsoft clearly have design issues they need to resolve.




. .
 
Maybe if Microsoft didn't try to cover this up, it wouldn't be a problem. "Ya know, things break!"
What's hilarious is that they are (were?) still churning out defective consoles.
 
gofreak said:
As I was saying, I don't think it's the core existing userbase that they need worry about.

I don't really know what the impact of stories like this getting out there is, but I doubt it can be a good one, at least in the short term. In the long term, it'll depend on how well MS addresses the problem on a design-level, like I said. If people are still reporting broken 360s, be they newly covered by 3 year warranties or not, it will perpetuate and worsen the image of the system as unreliable. If they can fix it comprehensively, they give a chance for people to forget.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. Warranties are something people care about, but they really don't care about them as much as they do care about getting a reliable product. I think MS has convinced gamers who have been following the story over the last 18 months, but to many, the boxes on shelves represent an image of a potentially shoddy product that more than likely will fail within the next 1-3 years if not sooner. This is why they need to get rid of the current inventory and put a new model on the shelves. Until then, they have done nothing to remove the stigma that the system on shelves is likely to break.
 
Say it really is 7 million systems sold, that only means software attach rate is through the roof.

Either way, your troll fails
 
guise said:
I thought 65nm chipsets run cooler and more efficiently. Since a lot of the 360s problems stem from excessive heat/inadequate cooling, i would have thought 65nm would make a big difference.
Click to expand...

Indeed it will make a difference, but that's not the point.

The point is that the 95nm models should be reliable. If it takes a 65nm die to make these machines reliable, they should have held off of releasing the hardware until this fall or next spring.

I can see what's happened. They expected to have the 65nm chips out by now (probably aimed for the Elite) so they could nip this in the bud without a big fuss and keep playing the vocal minority card, but the die shrink has been delayed and they are forced to go into the holiday season with the 95nm chip and massive mainstream attention for GTA and Halo.

They were never going to get away with that and thus they've brought in this pre-emptive bandaid.
 
tjhooker said:
This is brand suicide for the XBox brand.

Consumers never forget a bad product.

I very much doubt there will be an XBox 3.
Click to expand...

Yeah...that's the reason why the Playstation 2 flopped due to all of the problems the Playstation had...

Oh wait...
 
Burai said:
The point is that the 95nm models should be reliable. If it takes a 65nm die to make these machines reliable, they should have held off of releasing the hardware until this fall or next spring.

I can see what's happened. They expected to have the 65nm chips out by now (probably aimed for the Elite) so they could nip this in the bud without a big fuss and keep playing the vocal minority card, but the die shrink has been delayed and they are forced to go into the holiday season with the 95nm chip and massive mainstream attention for GTA and Halo.

They were never going to get away with that and thus they've brought in this pre-emptive bandaid.
Click to expand...

How would you propose someone at a shop would address the question, "Is this system one of the ones that will break?" This is a question that a lot of clerks will get. They can say three-year warranty and whatnot, but people will not feel comfortable about this "pre-emptive band-aid". It is like rolling back the odometer on a used car. It smacks of a last-minute effort to close a deal but without addressing the reliability of the product.
 
JDSN said:
I think its called "Battered wife syndrome"
Click to expand...

Everyone knows I was a pretty vocal critic of the way Microsoft has been handling this situation and I feel that they let this go on for way too long. However, Microsoft did exactly everything that people were screaming for them to do;

-They admitted there was an issue
-They apologized
-They extended the warranty
-They are making revisions to improve the reliability of the 360. They'd be insane not to considering how much money this is costing them.

How is this a terrible doom and gloom thing that will force them to go third party? Better to get it over with and move on. They may lose money this quarter, but it will still be a lot less money than Sony is going to lose with their $100 price drop of the PS3. And you know what? Sony will be fine too, they aren't going 3rd part either.
 
JdFoX187 said:
Yeah...that's the reason why the Playstation 2 flopped due to all of the problems the Playstation had...

Oh wait...
Click to expand...


Playstation 1 & 2 problems were never this bad.

Of course, your argument is weakened by how bad the PS3 is doing... not that I think it has anything to do with PS1/PS2 hardware failures.
 
JdFoX187 said:
Yeah...that's the reason why the Playstation 2 flopped due to all of the problems the Playstation had...

Oh wait...
Click to expand...

Good point. But like Sony did with the original Playstation, MS needs to distinguish the new and improved models with different packaging and model numbers.
 
Kaeru said:
We always had a 3 year warranty in Sweden, it's regulated through law and covers manufacturers error( 3 RROD is a good example of that).

But in no way am I going to buy a 360 until they have taken care of their crappy hardware solution. I do not want to go through the hassle of waiting weeks to get my console replaced, nor do I want support a company that makes it into a business.
It's about a moral stand.

How the hell can you be all happy and giggly about the extended warranty and think that all problems are now solved? Like someone said, this is just a band-aid on a brain tumor.
Click to expand...
As another European I agree with everything you've said, except the stuff about a "moral stand". That's just hyperbole. I simply don't want my console to stop functioning and be gone for weeks when I'm trying to play the latest greatest release. That is completely unacceptable to me.
 
I have to give Ms some credit. I never heard anything about widespread 360 problems outside of this board. With their announcement now i hear people talking about it. In fixing their problem they've done more than anyone to bring it to light.

-1 to Ms for their hardware
+1 to MS for making good steps to address it
-1,000,000 to gaming jounalists for not making this a big story. You know in their offices these things must have been dying alot. I wonder if we'll see a flood of articles on this or will the gaming news world continue to stay quiet and be happy that Ms did their job for them.
 
FirstInHell said:
Everyone knows I was a pretty vocal critic of the way Microsoft has been handling this situation and I feel that they let this go on for way too long. However, Microsoft did exactly everything that people were screaming for them to do;

-They admitted there was an issue
-They apologized
-They extended the warranty
-They are making revisions to improve the reliability of the 360. They'd be insane not to considering how much money this is costing them.

How is this a terrible doom and gloom thing that will force them to go third party? Better to get it over with and move on. They may lose money this quarter, but it will still be a lot less money than Sony is going to lose with their $100 price drop of the PS3. And you know what? Sony will be fine too, they aren't going 3rd part either.
Click to expand...

Im not saying I agree with the "LOL SUCIIDE!" comments from the OP, my point is that MS have spent the last 19 months spinning and refusing to admit that they have a problem with their hardware and even tho its a step in the right direction, the fact that they admit it now and providing a short term fix for it doesnt make the current situation of the Xbox hardware any better, they are not doing us a favor and they fully deserve the negative press they are getting. I still cant buy an Xbox because warranties means shit where I live, so I have to wait until im confident im buying the new model.
 
LAMBO said:
I have to give Ms some credit. I never heard anything about widespread 360 problems outside of this board. With their announcement now i hear people talking about it. In fixing their problem they've done more than anyone to bring it to light.

-1 to Ms for their hardware
+1 to MS for making good steps to address it
-1,000,000 to gaming jounalists for not making this a big story. You know in their offices these things must have been dying alot. I wonder if we'll see a flood of articles on this or will the gaming news world continue to stay quiet and be happy that Ms did their job for them.
Click to expand...

Your kidding right? Nearly every forum that has a console section or talks about games in general also has a sticky or thread about the ring of death.
 
Zefah said:
This is pretty true for Japan at least. The early hardware problems with the original Xbox and the horrible way that Microsoft handled the situation really ruined the Xbox name in Japan.
Click to expand...

Some of you may remember a legendary poster on this forum by the name of Grassmoker. His fanboy delusion was of such magnificent grandeur, he believed that the news reports of the defective Xbox units would create a "buzz" about the system and thus spur Xbox sales in Japan. I'm not making this up.
 
guise said:
Is Fox News really a reliable source?

I'm not american, but i've seen everywhere they use sensationalist tactics in their reporting.
Click to expand...


Unless your a prejudiced idealogue, it is reliable. They just have a penchant for sensational topics is all.
 
JdFoX187 said:
Yeah...that's the reason why the Playstation 2 flopped due to all of the problems the Playstation had...

Oh wait...
Click to expand...

The PS1 and PS2 had problems at launch where most the issues were resolved early (It's still electronics and shit happens like Peter Moore has said) MS let this run for surprisingly as long as it has and it's still not solved lest we forget.

It never got bad enough for Sony to extend the warranty specifically tied one problem.
 
Okay, since a lot of people are harping about a 65nm process, I guess I should post something about it.

The 65nm number refers to the gate size, which also gives an idea of the gate oxide thickness indirectly (a few nm). By going to smaller parameters, overall power consumption potentially falls because of the lower voltages required to turn on each individual transistor.

However, reality is not quite that simple; by going to thinner gate oxides/dielectrics, leakage current occurs over a few atoms. This results in wasted power (ie. heating issues). There used to be leakage current issues concerning the body substrate in various semiconductor applications, but they solved that by using SOI technologies.

So in summary:

+ lower operating voltage may lead to lower power consumption
- more engineering problems at the 65nm level makes it non-trivial

Moreover, it is important to note that heat dissipation does not drop that dramatically when moving from 90nm to 65nm. Supporting components such as system and heat sink design will still play an important role in determining the ambient system temperature. The $1bn (warrantee) dollar question is: with the lack of a complete redesign, is the current system design with a 65nm chip reliable from an engineering standpoint?
 
tjhooker said:
This is brand suicide for the XBox brand.

Consumers never forget a bad product.

I very much doubt there will be an XBox 3.
Click to expand...


Can you please, PLEASE STOP POSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

****!
 
About the news, I'm not shocked, yet, it's pathetic if it's anywhere close.

Bach said the company made some manufacturing and production changes that he expects will reduce Xbox 360 hardware lockups, but he declined to identify the problems or say which others might remain.
Click to expand...

The credibility of the console is already shot among my circle. Microsoft's attitude lacked composure, experience, and allowed the hardware problems to fester for almost half a "normal" generation. Thank god for other reliable systems with decent to fantastic software lineups.

I'll believe the changes when reports and anecdotal evidence say so. The 3 year warranty has the ability to be a wonderful smoke screen for Microsoft, I hope it doesn't become so.
 
So at first I thought this might be a response to the EU investigation but that just focuses on the disc scratching issue which this warranty doesn't cover. So, besides E3, the only reason for the warranty change I can infer is that their internal research shows their sales have gone down the last 2 months because of consumer's growing awareness of the hardware reliability problem.

I don't know for sure how the Elite fits in to the sales decline but I think that the Elite isn't a contributing factor to the sales decline over the last 2 months. For all intents and purposes, it was supposed to increase total 360 sales, not decrease them, so there had to be another factor (reliability) at work.
 
I've just sent my 2nd one back to the factory.

It's 2.5 million and one...

jump_in_by_metaller.jpg
 
DenogginizerOS said:
Good point. But like Sony did with the original Playstation, MS needs to distinguish the new and improved models with different packaging and model numbers.
Click to expand...

Could they drop the price of the old ones and sell the new ones at the full price?
 
tjhooker said:
This is brand suicide for the XBox brand.

Consumers never forget a bad product.

I very much doubt there will be an XBox 3.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Wiitard banned for saying PS3 would be pulled off the market in 2 years?
 
What makes them funny is that people don't "get it" .. so you get to laugh at the users reacting and treating them like they have real opinions.

So, quit outing these people ... you are ruining my entertainment.
 
goldenpp72 said:
how would it 'lower' the number? What kind of retard just goes and buys another 360?
Click to expand...
There are people that have BOUGHT, not replaced through warranty service, BOUGHT, more X360 consoles. There are a few people around here that have BOUGHT an ADDITIONAL two or more consoles after their first, second, third ones have died. Makes me really sad that people would continue to throw money at such a product.
 
tanod said:
I don't know for sure how the Elite fits in to the sales decline but I think that the Elite isn't a contributing factor to the sales decline over the last 2 months. For all intents and purposes, it was supposed to increase total 360 sales, not decrease them, so there had to be another factor (reliability) at work.
Click to expand...

It seems Elites have been virtually MIA since launch. Anybody know why?

So I think their limited availability kept them from being a factor in boosting 360 sales. The other problem is that after 20 months, MS is running out of people willing to spend $400 on their properly equipped console.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Best-selling DS games reported to have sold at least one million
Sales-Age 
28
803
Impotaku replied
Lords of the Fallen has sold over 2.5 million copies and officially broken even
Sales-Age 
21
425
phant0m replied
The Xbox One has been hacked
12
402
Bry0 replied
[Windows Central] Crimson Desert performance settings show Xbox Series S might have been a mistake
Opinion Hardware  2 3 4
157
2K
Topher replied
Danganronpa 2x2 Xbox version has been canceled
Rumor 
3
286
cripterion replied
Top Bottom