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2 Muslim women ordered off American Airlines flight

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boiled goose

good with gravy
Terrible. Racist fuckery.

But this part you bolded: "In February, a Sikh American actor, Waris Ahluwalia, was blocked from boarding a flight in Mexico City because he declined to remove his turban during a security check."

What's wrong with that? It's a security check. People have to remove their shoes and all kinds of stuff. Your religious beliefs do not exempt you from having to oblige to that if you want to get on the flight. Let the security personnel check your damn hat or stay on the ground.

I imagine it's the same if someone is wearing some other type of large hat? Seems reasonable.

It's a complex question.
Supreme court has ruled that reasonable accommodations can be made for religious reasons... I'm sure that reasonable people could have found a reasonable compromise... that requires patience and a culture of service, not enforcement.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Oh sure, let me sum up the Quran, the Hadith and the Sira for you in one message board post. I'll get right on that.

As with all religions, thankfully the majority of the followers cherry pick (as directed by their local religious leaders) and ignore tons of "problematic stuff" in the doctrine. One sect cherry picks this. One region cherry picks that. Based on various respected sources like Pew Research, saying that 25% of its followers are "hardcore" is probably a conservative estimate. That's close to 400 million people in the world who do believe and support the "problematic stuff." IMO it's nothing to sneeze at. Personally I'm thankful that the only Muslims I'll ever meet in my lifetime will (hopefully) be part of the nice 75%.

Again, I don't think this is particularly relevant to this specific case. I agree with the person who said the flight attendant was probably using "omg i'm threatened by these scary girl muslims!" Islamophobia simply to get back at them for complaining about the service.

The problem with this post and these polls is that they lack nuance, 25% of people believe what exactly? Sharia Law? That question alone lacks nuance, one person might believe in "Sharia Law" to settle small disputes, another person wants to behead people, but you wouldn't know that because that question lacks nuance.

Likewise, your post lacks nuance, "people from other religions cherrypick", did you read what you just wrote? People from every single religion cherry pick, every single one, if they didn't cherry pick there wouldn't be thousands of denominations for every religion. But some people like you refuse to grant that nuance to Muslims, most likely because you have never interacted with one or have never visited a "Muslim country", and all your information is from second hand accounts. Muslims are a monolith, people that follow other religions aren't.

There was a poll done on Muslims that concluded 16% of Muslims sympathize with ISIS (that question itself lacks nuance, a lot of ISIS "sympathizers like the idea of a "Muslim Caliphate" but don't like the way they're doing things, that doesn't make the ISIS sympathizers "good", but it's not the same as supporting terrorism), there was also an American poll that asked Americans if they should bomb "Agrabah", a fictional city that was intentionally named in the poll because it sounded vaguely Middle Eastern, 30% of Republicans and 19% of Democrats agreed with the bombing (which is also a form of terrorism). Based on the two polls here, only one "group" is provided the privilege of nuance.
 
The problem with this post and these polls is that they lack nuance, 25% of people believe what exactly? Sharia Law? That question alone lacks nuance, one person might believe in "Sharia Law" to settle small disputes, another person wants to behead people, but you wouldn't know that because that question lacks nuance.

Likewise, your post lacks nuance, "people from other religions cherrypick", did you read what you just wrote? People from every single religion cherry pick, every single one, if they didn't cherry pick there wouldn't be thousands of denominations for every religion. But some people like you refuse to grant that nuance to Muslims, most likely because you have never interacted with one or have never visited a "Muslim country", and all your information is from second hand accounts. Muslims are a monolith, people that follow other religions aren't.

There was a poll done on Muslims that concluded 16% of Muslims sympathize with ISIS, there was also an American poll that asked Americans if they should bomb "Agrabah", a fictional city that was intentionally named in the poll because it sounded vaguely Middle Eastern, 30% of Republicans and 19% of Democrats agreed with the bombing (which is also a form of terrorism). Based on the two polls here, only one "group" is provided the privilege of nuance.

Thank you for your contribution to sanity. This 'random poll' rhetoric wouldn't fly if it was about other issues (like BLM and racism). It needs to stop. "Let's judge an entire people because of poll X", it is just an excuse for racism/fascism/xenophobia/whatever.

Just because Bill Maher can spew it, doesn't make it right.
 

Ashhong

Member
Is it rude for me to say that her friend has a great body? No wonder that passenger started a conversation with her
 

Muffdraul

Member
The problem with this post and these polls is that they lack nuance, 25% of people believe what exactly? Sharia Law? That question alone lacks nuance, one person might believe in "Sharia Law" to settle small disputes, another person wants to behead people, but you wouldn't know that because that question lacks nuance.

Likewise, your post lacks nuance, "people from other religions cherrypick", did you read what you just wrote? People from every single religion cherry pick, every single one, if they didn't cherry pick there wouldn't be thousands of denominations for every religion. But some people like you refuse to grant that nuance to Muslims, most likely because you have never interacted with one or have never visited a "Muslim country", and all your information is from second hand accounts. Muslims are a monolith, people that follow other religions aren't.

There was a poll done on Muslims that concluded 16% of Muslims sympathize with ISIS (that question itself lacks nuance, a lot of ISIS "sympathizers like the idea of a "Muslim Caliphate" but don't like the way they're doing things, that doesn't make the ISIS sympathizers "good", but it's not the same as supporting terrorism), there was also an American poll that asked Americans if they should bomb "Agrabah", a fictional city that was intentionally named in the poll because it sounded vaguely Middle Eastern, 30% of Republicans and 19% of Democrats agreed with the bombing (which is also a form of terrorism). Based on the two polls here, only one "group" is provided the privilege of nuance.

When I said "As with all religions, thankfully the majority of the followers cherry pick" I was referring to Muslims. Islam falls under "all religions." Muslims cherry pick just like everyone else, that's why only approx. 25% hold beliefs that we in the West generally consider problematic. e.g. Death for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery. Amputation for theft. All non-Muslims must either convert, submit as dhimmis and pay jizya, or die. Muhammad was the perfect example of a man and he is to be emulated as much as possible. That doesn't sound so bad, until you read the Sira and find out what Muhammad actually did, according to the book.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
When I said "As with all religions, thankfully the majority of the followers cherry pick" I was referring to Muslims. Islam falls under "all religions." Muslims cherry pick just like everyone else, that's why only approx. 25% hold beliefs that we in the West generally consider problematic. e.g. Death for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery. Amputation for theft. All non-Muslims must either convert, submit as dhimmis and pay jizya, or die. Muhammad was the perfect example of a man and he is to be emulated as much as possible. That doesn't sound so bad, until you read the Sira and find out what Muhammad actually did, according to the book.

33% of Christians in the United States believe in the absolute literal interpretation of the Bible too, do they really? Or are they always asked loaded questions that lack nuance?

That's the issue with arguing with someone that has never been to Muslim majority countries. It produces overly simplistic views like yours. Islamophobes grant every single religion nuance, except for one. I'll try to provide nuance below.

I have to laugh at "adultery" in your post though, do you actually believe people don't have pre-marital sex or cheat on their spouses in Muslim countries? Because that is a completely delusional statement, the vast majority of people do have sexual relationships aka. adultery, and that's not exclusive to young progressive people either. You would know that if you visited a Muslim country and interacted with local people instead of getting your news from Fox news.

Muslims in Muslim countries tend to be less religious than they are in Western countries actually, in Western countries they face rampant xenophobia, so they tend to turn to religion more when compared to people in Muslim countries, that usually want to escape that "mode".

Every Muslim country is different, the people in every country are different, there are 1.6 billion people spread around 100+ countries, and even if we only talk about the 22 Arab countries, Saudi Muslims are completely different when compared to Muslims in Kuwait or Bahrain. Just like Christians in Germany aren't like Christians in India for example.

Only 3 to 4 countries impose Hijab on women, the rest do not, about 50% of women wear Hijab and 50% don't, the percentage changes based on the country, Burqa isn't really a huge thing in most countries, it's a Sunni Muslim thing, and only an extreme minority concentrated in Saudi and Qatar wear it, with a few of them sprinkles throughout.

The vast majority of "Honor Killings" aren't done by Muslims, Honor killings aren't actually a thing in most countries, you're more likely to die from coffee than an "Honor Killing", but you wouldn't know that by watching TV.

People like you assign the most extreme version, Saudi Arabia's version, which is called "Wahhabism", to every single Muslim, when only 0.5% of Muslims practice that version, almost all of them live in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, And ISIS.

I hope the above information is enough nuance for you to consider, but I doubt it.
 

greepoman

Member
Strangely enough just last week I was on a plane where I heard "taking pictures of a flight attendant is a federal offense". This was in response to a creep who was blatantly taking pics of a hot flight attendant. They didn't kick him off the plane, but after we landed there were some uniformed guys waiting for him.

Definitely didn't shed a tear for the guy but I thought it strange at the time so I googled it and apparently it is stated in the in flight magazine that you can't take pictures (and within the airline's authority to enforce), but it's definitely not a federal offense.
 

Derwind

Member
To paraphrase a post on my wife's Facebook feed: Most terrorists are men, so let's stigmatise men.

I get where that's coming from but don't most Muslim men already find themselves stigmatized, doubly so if they have an Arabic sounding name. The quote you mention almost sounds like it implies that it's not the case.
 

Condom

Member
Terrible. Racist fuckery.

But this part you bolded: "In February, a Sikh American actor, Waris Ahluwalia, was blocked from boarding a flight in Mexico City because he declined to remove his turban during a security check."

What's wrong with that? It's a security check. People have to remove their shoes and all kinds of stuff. Your religious beliefs do not exempt you from having to oblige to that if you want to get on the flight. Let the security personnel check your damn hat or stay on the ground.

I imagine it's the same if someone is wearing some other type of large hat? Seems reasonable.

IIRC he asked to do it in a private room but they declined. That was the issue, it wasn't that he wasn't cooperating.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
based off this bit

After five hours on the tarmac, during which passengers were given water and pretzels, a white male passenger behind the women initiated a conversation with Ms. Khalil’s friend “about the lack of customer care,” she wrote.

“Suddenly, a male flight attendant walking by singled out my friend and stated, ‘If you have a problem, you can get off the plane.’ My friend replied, ‘I have no problem — I am simply stating facts. We were given one glass of water in five hours,’ ” Ms. Khalil wrote.

“The attendant responded by once again threatening my friend, ‘Well, I can have you removed for instigating other passengers,’ ” the attendant said, according to Ms. Khalil.

The flight attendant was not wearing a name badge, so Ms. Khalil’s friend took his photograph to ask another crew member to help identify him. But a third flight attendant told them that the picture was a “federal offense,” Ms. Khalil said. They were asked to delete the photograph, and did, she added.

Ten minutes later, the women were told to take their belongings to the front of the aircraft, where they were informed that they were being removed because the male flight attendant “felt threatened,” Ms. Khalil wrote, quoting a customer service representative.

I'm actually thinking this wasn't really race based and was more based off someone with a shitty job over-reaching and going all in on something.

but hell, maybe it was race based. I think the photo really irked the guy though.
 

RBH

Member
It's fun to search "American Airlines" on Twitter and see the different complaints against them on a regular basis:



https://twitter.com/seoulcialite/status/761025228931604480?lang=en

6a6f494a_o.png
 
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