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[Relaxed Muscle]

I think this was a missed chance to see a beautiful match of 2 teams that likes to play good football, but Holland decided to put their karate bandanas and start giving flying kicks, Paraguay match was probably the most difficult for Spain, and they didn't even do that many faults, they neutralized Spanish game with preassure, speed and physical but not dirty play.

Holland never wanted to do any tactics, it was the worst football I've seen in a WC, absolutly disgracing for a country who invented the "total football".It was anti-football, they never deserved to win, never.

Spain won the WC, but yesterday the football was the other winner.

Go back to your former self Holland, we don't want to see you ever again playing like this.

England and Argentina are not great teams?

Argentina coached by Maradona is not a great team, for a great team you need players and at least a decent coach...

And England was a mess.

 

[tzare]

Let's be serious most players exaggerate the fall(like Robben does). Spain has the nack of falling without contact. Not to mention unlike other teams has more players showing this type of behavior.

maybe that is due to having the ball ,it is difficult to dive when you don't have it. Not that we, here in spain, dive every 5 minutes XD

And a small contact when in motion is usually enough to loose balance. They exaggerate? for sure. Many of them seem to be shot by snipers XD But this is football, everyone takes it to its own field: some dive because they have the ball, some the concede faults because don't and also know won't be punished enough

And obviously you can not bitch spain for being violent, extra defensive, time-loosing, inaccurate, whatever... so haters must have a point elsewhere uh?

i guess so XD

 

[2San]

maybe that is due to having the ball ,it is difficul to dive when you don't have it. Not that we, here in spain, dive every 5 minutes XD

And a small contact when in motion is usually enough to loose balance. They exaggerate? for sure. Many of them seem to be shot by snipers XD But this is football, everyone takes it to its own field: some dive because they have de ball, some the concede faults because don't and also know won't be punished enough

Yeah, but the original point I was trying to make is that the yellow and red card tally don't mean shit these days.

And obviously you can not bitch spain for being violent, extra defensive, time-loosing, inaccurate, whatever... so haters must have a point elsewhere uh?

Well we can fault them in being inaccurate terrible in scoring goals. Can't remember the last time the last time team that won a WC with such unimpressive goal tally.

 

[Vaandaviii]

Let's be serious most players exaggerate the fall(like Robben does). Spain has the nack of falling without contact. Not to mention unlike other teams has more players showing this type of behavior.

C'mon, I've seen Christiano Ronaldo being pulled to the ground by an invisible force 3m away from any human being, and MANY other teams dive A LOT more than Spain. Again it's "the thing" to bitch about a non-violent and good-playing team. So much hate :lol



Check this out (Specially the orange one) Note no Spanish player anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKUV0JIqVnY

 

[faridmon]

I still can't bellieve my eyes that Many people here are calling Spain divers. In the whole tournement, Spain was one of the teams that had the fewest dive in the whole WC.

this thread = mindfuck...

 

[Vaandaviii]

Well we can fault them in being inaccurate terrible in scoring goals. Can't remember the last time the last time team that won a WC with such unimpressive goal tally.

Yes, you can fault them for being inaccurate indeed. They have failed quite a few DONE goals this tournament.

Thing is that they haven't been defensive at all, they've played beautifully, and with a little bit more luck they could have won several matches by a wider margin, but they have been inaccurate indeed (Else yesterday would have been a 4-0 easily)

Anyway I rather support an inaccurate team than a team that scores their only chance (See Italy) or another one who plays by destroying the contrary's play (See Holland)

 

[2San]

C'mon, I've seen Christiano Ronaldo being pulled to the ground by an invisible force 3m away from any human being, and MANY other teams dive A LOT more than Spain. Again it's "the thing" to bitch about a non-violent and good-playing team. So much hate :lol



Check this out (Specially the orange one) Note no Spanish player anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKUV0JIqVnY

The Orange one isn't dutch if you are implying that? I admit Spain aren't the only ones who dive, kinda implied that since am still kinda pissy. Though still the yellow and red card tally don't mean shit.

 

[tzare]

Yeah, but the original point I was trying to make is that the yellow and red card tally don't mean shit these days.

Well we can fault them in being inaccurate terrible in scoring goals. Can't remember the last time the last time team that won a WC with such unimpressive goal tally.

oh for sure. I'd go for a baskeball-like punishment for faults Some times you get a yellow card just because talk to the ref and not for faults XD

ANd yeah, spain wasn't that great scoring, that is obvious. Imo, Torres was the cause, most matches Spain started to 'work' when he was substituted
Also playing with two destructive midfielders like busquets and alonso was too much, for me that is, i would have preferred to see Cesc for example instead, as he is more offensive. But like it or not, wining is the final reason and they won

 

[Patriots7]

I think the Spanish victory is really clouding some peoples memory. The Dutch played aggressively and wrecklessly, but Spain was not much better. Both teams should have been down 2 players.

Best team of the WC rarely ever wins though. Tragic but Spain earned their victory, bad calls and all.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

People are complaining that Spain didnt score many goals, OK, I get that, but its not like we played like Italy usually does, meaning shooting once per game and scoring once per game.

Spain had the most shots on goal of ANY team this World Cup. Obviously we have trouble finishing (well, actually you could argue we dont, since we won the whole thing) but it wasnt for a lack of attacking mentality. We attack all day and have a really good defensive midfield that doesnt allow shit to go trough.

The sad thing is that since teams cant figure out how to beat us, they decide to kick the shit out of us and play with 8 defenders. Classy.

We also committed the least fouls in the tournament, heck we didnt even get a yellow until our fourth match or something

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

People are complaining that Spain didnt score many goals, OK, I get that, but its not like we played like Italy usually does, meaning shooting once per game and scoring once per game.

Spain had the most shots on goal of ANY team this World Cup. Obviously we have trouble finishing (well, actually you could argue we dont, since we won the whole thing) but it wasnt for a lack of attacking mentality. We attack all day and have a really good defensive midfield that doesnt allow shit to go trough.

The sad thing is that since teams cant figure out how to beat us, they decide to kick the shit out of us and play with 8 defenders. Classy.

We also committed the least fouls in the tournament, heck we didnt even get a yellow until our fourth match or something

And not forget we basically play with just on striker most of the tournament due of Torres being totally inept.

 

[trineo_feo]

People are complaining that Spain didnt score many goals, OK, I get that, but its not like we played like Italy usually does, meaning shooting once per game and scoring once per game.

Spain had the most shots on goal of ANY team this World Cup. Obviously we have trouble finishing (well, actually you could argue we dont, since we won the whole thing) but it wasnt for a lack of attacking mentality. We attack all day and have a really good defensive midfield that doesnt allow shit to go trough.

The sad thing is that since teams cant figure out how to beat us, they decide to kick the shit out of us and play with 8 defenders. Classy.

We also committed the least fouls in the tournament, heck we didnt even get a yellow until our fourth match or something

Holy shit yes. Gaf, read this post. Some of the opinions here are ludicrous.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I've heard a few people talking about the goal being 'offside'

the argument for is that the scorer was offside, but then went back onside, took a pass and scored.

I don't understand offside well enough (past the obvious) to comment on it. I take it it's slightly open to interpretation or something? was that player offside, or does going back onside then participating in the play render it OK?

The sad thing is that since teams cant figure out how to beat us, they decide to kick the shit out of us and play with 8 defenders. Classy.

It's not 'classy' its that everyone knows how to beat spain, you have to disrupt their amazing passing game. Holland actually managed to do that a bit, but to do it you have to be aggressive as fuck. Obviously not de jong karate agressive, but if you constantly attack them, it's harder for the magic to work.

Holland nearly made it to penalties playing that game, they just failed really near the end.

 

[santi_yo]

Iniesta's legs right now:

 

[Raging Spaniard]

And not forget we basically play with just on striker most of the tournament due of Torres being totally inept.

If Torres wasnt in, we dont win that game. You know that we didnt want PK's in any way, shape or form.

Does it suck that Torres had knee surgery and hadnt played in 4 months? Hell yes, but oh well. He still contributed when it counted (and he still is responsible for the 2nd most important moment in Spanish soccer history, so hes got lots of continues left in my book, lol)

 

[dofry]

I still can't bellieve my eyes that Many people here are calling Spain divers. In the whole tournement, Spain was one of the teams that had the fewest dive in the whole WC.

this thread = mindfuck...

Football is a diving game and that makes the game worse than it should be. I can't stand people who trip for nothing and act like it hurts like hell when touched lightly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGvYgzq6yg
He made a good goal later, but left a sour taste of the game ending. Why spoil fun by diving.
Still the best parody ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRO626ImQek

These though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFsl8WEw1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y8eeGdjhwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhryrStqez0

Late congratz for Spain!

 

[Milchmonster]

Do people here even know what fucking diving means?

A player dives if there's absolutely NO contact with another player. Watch Özil's yellow card against Australia, that was a dive. It's no fucking dive if you're exaggerating the foul. See Robben, he was always fouled. Did he exaggerate? Yeah, he did. But he's no fucking diver...

I had to say this, freaked the fuck out of me.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If Torres wasnt in, we dont win that game. You know that we didnt want PK's in any way, shape or form.

Does it suck that Torres had knee surgery and hadnt played in 4 months? Hell yes, but oh well. He still contributed when it counted (and he still is responsible for the 2nd most important moment in Spanish soccer history, so hes got lots of continues left in my book, lol)

Yeah, I just was saying that our attack pottential was disminished by the fact Torres was awful most of the tournament.

 

[Sage00]

I've heard a few people talking about the goal being 'offside'

the argument for is that the scorer was offside, but then went back onside, took a pass and scored.

I don't understand offside well enough (past the obvious) to comment on it. I take it it's slightly open to interpretation or something? was that player offside, or does going back onside then participating in the play render it OK?



It's not 'classy' its that everyone knows how to beat spain, you have to disrupt their amazing passing game. Holland actually managed to do that a bit, but to do it you have to be aggressive as fuck. Obviously not de jong karate agressive, but if you constantly attack them, it's harder for the magic to work.

Holland nearly made it to penalties playing that game, they just failed really near the end.

He was offside (during the first pass), but being offside in itself is not an offence. It's a foul only if you're interfering with play from an offside position (receiving a pass, blocking the goalkeeper's view of a shot, etc). By the time he was involved in anything he was back onside, so it should be fine.

 

[StickyFingers]

Spain won, good for them. They were the better actors in this game. Morgan Freeman was there to confirm.

Holland has the right to win it, but I guess FIFA's playbook wasn't meant for them to win. It's a setup.

If FIFA can arrest Dutch girls who are wearing advertisment not official to this world cup, they can do pretty much do anything.

Fuck Spain, I can go back to not giving a fuck about football again, since World Cups and Euro Cups are the only thing that people can live with each other. When the new season of football begins, hooligans can bash each others head in once again.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Yeah I dont blame Robben for diving. The guy has a really low tolerance for pain, I mean the guy gets injured every three meals, and soccer is plenty physical so yeah, he just hurts more than the rest of us.

 

[John Dunbar]

He was offside (during the first pass), but being offside in itself is not an offence. It's a foul only if you're interfering with play from an offside position (receiving a pass, blocking the goalkeeper's view of a shot, etc). By the time he was involved in anything he was back onside, so it should be fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uFy23vR3s

doesn't look like he was offside even during the first pass, at least not to me.

 

[East Lake]

Do people here even know what fucking diving means?

A player dives if there's absolutely NO contact with another player. Watch Özil's yellow card against Australia, that was a dive. It's no fucking dive if you're exaggerating the foul. See Robben, he was always fouled. Did he exaggerate? Yeah, he did. But he's no fucking diver...

I had to say this, freaked the fuck out of me.

Erm, I'd consider the act of diving any instance where the player consciously decides to fall down instead of staying on their feet, contact or not. Robben does this, nearly every player does this.

 

[norinrad]

Do people here even know what fucking diving means?

A player dives if there's absolutely NO contact with another player. Watch Özil's yellow card against Australia, that was a dive. It's no fucking dive if you're exaggerating the foul. See Robben, he was always fouled. Did he exaggerate? Yeah, he did. But he's no fucking diver...

I had to say this, freaked the fuck out of me.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Arjen]

Do people here even know what fucking diving means?

A player dives if there's absolutely NO contact with another player. Watch Özil's yellow card against Australia, that was a dive. It's no fucking dive if you're exaggerating the foul. See Robben, he was always fouled. Did he exaggerate? Yeah, he did. But he's no fucking diver...

I had to say this, freaked the fuck out of me.

Agreed, people here scream DIVING! anytime anybody falls.

 

[Leonsito]

:_)

This is too beautiful, thank you everyone, holland, deutschland, portugal, fifa, refs, divers, cheaters, paul...

I don't want to talk about anything but the joy of winning, it's not the time to speak about other teams, dirty play or whatever, just thank you world, and thank you gaf.

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS !!

 

[Sage00]

Erm, I'd consider the act of diving any instance where the player consciously decides to fall down instead of staying on their feet, contact or not. Robben does this, nearly every player does this.

No, diving is attempted simulation of a foul. If a player receives contact they have every right to go down. Half the time the ref wouldn't see it otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uFy23vR3s

doesn't look like he was offside even during the first pass, at least not to me.

The replay angle is better. Pause it at 1:06, he seems to be half a step offside.

 

[Tristam]

Spain won, good for them. They were the better actors in this game. Morgan Freeman was there to confirm.

Holland has the right to win it, but I guess FIFA's playbook wasn't meant for them to win. It's a setup.

If FIFA can arrest Dutch girls who are wearing advertisment not official to this world cup, they can do pretty much do anything.

Fuck Spain, I can go back to not giving a fuck about football again, since World Cups and Euro Cups are the only thing that people can live with each other. When the new season of football begins, hooligans can bash each others head in once again.

:lol

WTF is this shit about only zero contact = diving. Diving is going down anytime you could have otherwise stayed on your feet. You exaggerate going down from a challenge? That's diving. You get fouled but then decide to go down on your own only AFTER you realize you can't reach the ball? That's diving. And yeah, that means Iniesta took a dive too, although I would still judge that he was fouled (but I certainly wouldn't have given a second yellow for the foul).

 

[dofry]

Don't know the terms in english, but talking about acting falling/injury, exaggerate things. You know, Oscar's worthy performances. That is bad. Always. No matter if everyone does it. It is just bad.

 

[John Dunbar]

Agreed, people here scream DIVING! anytime anybody falls.

Diving, as FIFA defines it, is simulation. It includes exaggerating the amount of contact, so arguing that contact = not a dive is fucking stupid.

But yes, a lot of people are quick to claim something as a dive when it's not. Robben dives, though.

 

[Vaandaviii]

Iniesta's legs right now:

That's what happens when you dive, you know.

 

[tzare]

Erm, I'd consider the act of diving any instance where the player consciously decides to fall down instead of staying on their feet, contact or not. Robben does this, nearly every player does this.

so do I

I mean, every football player does this. Even messi who usually tried not to fall realised that is the only way to go as long as referees favour defensive play instead of protecting creative gameplay.
And if diving means no contact, stop complaining for Iniesta's attitude when he fell and that meant the second yellow card for the Dutch player.

 

[ummo]

De Jong Flying Kick avatar optimized, feel free to wear it.

 

[faridmon]

And I hate how poeple comment when thier team loses that the other team dived. Bloody hell, we get you, you don't like diving, Just STFU about it, jeez...

lets talk about more about the players, Van Bronkhorst last game, huh. At least he ended his carrer with an awsome final unlike many pleyers out there

 

[East Lake]

No, diving is attempted simulation of a foul. If a player receives contact they have every right to go down. Half the time the ref wouldn't see it otherwise.

I don't feel like there's some consensus to what I'm describing, and you know full well what I'm referring to putting this semantic debate aside. Contact is present nearly every time the ball is contested and really isn't frowned upon as long as the ball is won and the contact isn't dangerous, so no, the player doesn't have a right to go down. Robben did what he should have done on that second breakaway, stayed on his feet and went for a goal.

 

[Arjen]

Diving, as FIFA defines it, is simulation. It includes exaggerating the amount of contact, so arguing that contact = not a dive is fucking stupid.

But yes, a lot of people are quick to claim something as a dive when it's not. Robben dives, though.

I think the definition is stupid then.
Don't get me wrong, i do think some players over react when they get hit.
But how the hell are we to decide how much pain someone is in after they get hit?

 

[bionic77]

People are complaining that Spain didnt score many goals, OK, I get that, but its not like we played like Italy usually does, meaning shooting once per game and scoring once per game.

Spain had the most shots on goal of ANY team this World Cup. Obviously we have trouble finishing (well, actually you could argue we dont, since we won the whole thing) but it wasnt for a lack of attacking mentality. We attack all day and have a really good defensive midfield that doesnt allow shit to go trough.

The sad thing is that since teams cant figure out how to beat us, they decide to kick the shit out of us and play with 8 defenders. Classy.

We also committed the least fouls in the tournament, heck we didnt even get a yellow until our fourth match or something

I think not having Torres definitely hurt Spain in the goal count (when he is healthy the guy finishes with the best of them), but they were blessed enough to have so much talent that they still won the whole damn thing anyways. Spain's defense was really amazing. They definitely benefited from some nerves (Roben's one on one with the goalie immediately comes to mind), but they also did not finish at least as many chances in every match I saw them play. Torres probably would have helped in the department.

As great as Villa played in the tournament I thought the moment of the Finals got a little too big for him. He couldn't put the finishing touches on a few good chances. The same happened for the Dutch. Forlan was the one guy who was always up to the task and deserves the mantle of player of the tournament. Dude was a beast and I expect great things from him in the next two years.

I don't blame the Dutch for getting physical either. The game was not going their way early and they decided to muck things up to stay in the match. If Spain had scored an early goal they would have quickly abandoned that strategy. With the stakes that high it is easy for us to post on a message board that you shouldn't play a certain way, but no one remembers how you won, only that you won. You can't blame either team for lack of effort, maybe lack of nerves, but it was a hard fought game.

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm reading a bunch of Italian blogs/newspapers and I'm shocked, shocked by how many Italians think that Spain robbed this cup from Holland.

What the fuck. Italia GAF, explain this to me.

 

[jett]

Ok, now you're a cunt. Fucking pathetic.

He speaks the truf, Holland played a disgraceful game, and just plain out shit football.

 

[dofry]

De Jong gifs needs some Mortal Kombat or Tekken action! Make it so!

EDIT: This should be in a MMA greatest hits compilations too. Couture, Cro-cop, De Jong...

 

[Tristam]

I think the definition is stupid then.
Don't get me wrong, i do think some players over react when they get hit.
But how the hell are we to decide how much pain someone is in after they get hit?

It's pretty easy to decide when they're writhing in agony at 64:37 but sprinting at maximum speed to claim the pass from the free kick at 64:50.

And anyway, this is one area where the judgment will always reside with the official and never be replaced by technology (even if my dream comes true and officials start reviewing entire matches afterward to penalize floppers that were missed in regular time, it's still up to an official). I'd happily call anyone out for exaggerating the extent of their injuries. This would spark a very beneficial "chilling effect" (to take a phrase from the SCOTUS) on floppers' approach to the game. You'd see very little diving then, and then we'd just need to start aggressively penalizing cynical fouls until those too were virtually absent from the game.

My football utopia!

 

[Sage00]

I don't feel like there's some consensus to what I'm describing, and you know full well what I'm referring to putting this semantic debate aside. Contact is present nearly every time the ball is contested and really isn't frowned upon as long as the ball is won and the contact isn't dangerous, so no, the player doesn't have a right to go down. Robben did what he should have done on that second breakaway, stayed on his feet and went for a goal.

Obviously it's completely fine if the ball is won, that's just a normal tackle (excluding extreme examples, double legged etc). If a players leg is nowhere near the ball and in front of the player it is a foul. No ifs, no buts. Even if you could quickly step over it, it should not be there. At the lowest level it's obstruction, and at the highest level it's dangerous play. The leniency on contact levels is there to allow contact in situations like shoulder tackles, not to let players slide in on their own whim or grab shirts.

 

[Milchmonster]

I think the definition is stupid then.
Don't get me wrong, i do think some players over react when they get hit.
But how the hell are we to decide how much pain someone is in after they get hit?

Yeah, maybe the definition is different in Germany and, apparently, the Netherlands but that other definition is just dumb. I totally agree with you, a small kick can completely destroy your balance if you're starting a sprint for example. Of course I'm not defending shit like acting.

See Andi Möller 1995:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQXENW6_9Uc

or Ronaldo 2006 (possibly the most beautiful one ever :lol ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEvf3_Qv88g&feature=related

That's diving at it's best.

 

[Metalmurphy]

De Jong Flying Kick avatar optimized, feel free to wear it.

Optimized to what? Everything in that avatar goes against the forum rules. Height, width and file size.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I think the definition is stupid then.
Don't get me wrong, i do think some players over react when they get hit.
But how the hell are we to decide how much pain someone is in after they get hit?

Because some are like a simple trip and it's like they broke both their legs and need a stretcher. You can definitely tell if it's over the top.

When does the Bundesliga start up?

 

[Totalriot]

and they played pretty damn attractive games, better than anything they had done at this world cup. Give me the Holland of 2008 of over this crap

For the last 30 something years the Dutch always told the Germans that they are rather eleminated in the group stage than play as ugly as Germany. This year they have played ugly and have been very successfull. Germany on the other hand played beautiful football... Bizzaro world?

 

[pakopakopako]

Iniesta legs...

 

[Tristam]

Yeah, maybe the definition is different in Germany and, apparently, the Netherlands but that other definition is just dumb. I totally agree with you, a small kick can completely destroy your balance if you're starting a sprint for example. Of course I'm not defending shit like acting.

See Andi Möller 1995:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQXENW6_9Uc

or Ronaldo 2006 (possibly the most beautiful one ever :lol ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEvf3_Qv88g&feature=related

That's diving at it's best.

I knew it would be the one against Germany. That's the most pathetic dive I've ever seen in my life. Even before he reaches the ground he's already clutching his leg and turned to the ref, his face contorted in complaint and faked pain. A complete disgrace; an absolute embarrassment.

EDIT: And that was even in the third place match too, where there's nothing really at stake except dignity and pride. Ronaldo gave up his claim to either attribute long ago.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I think not having Torres definitely hurt Spain in the goal count (when he is healthy the guy finishes with the best of them), but they were blessed enough to have so much talent that they still won the whole damn thing anyways. Spain's defense was really amazing. They definitely benefited from some nerves (Roben's one on one with the goalie immediately comes to mind), but they also did not finish at least as many chances in every match I saw them play. Torres probably would have helped in the department.

As great as Villa played in the tournament I thought the moment of the Finals got a little too big for him. He couldn't put the finishing touches on a few good chances. The same happened for the Dutch. Forlan was the one guy who was always up to the task and deserves the mantle of player of the tournament. Dude was a beast and I expect great things from him in the next two years.

I don't blame the Dutch for getting physical either. The game was not going their way early and they decided to muck things up to stay in the match. If Spain had scored an early goal they would have quickly abandoned that strategy. With the stakes that high it is easy for us to post on a message board that you shouldn't play a certain way, but no one remembers how you won, only that you won. You can't blame either team for lack of effort, maybe lack of nerves, but it was a hard fought game.

Now if only you could be this objective about the Lakers

 

[Arjen]

Yeah, maybe the definition is different in Germany and, apparently, the Netherlands but that other definition is just dumb. I totally agree with you, a small kick can completely destroy your balance if you're starting a sprint for example. Of course I'm not defending shit like acting.

See Andi Möller 1995:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQXENW6_9Uc

or Ronaldo 2006 (possibly the most beautiful one ever :lol ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEvf3_Qv88g&feature=related

That's diving at it's best.

We even use the same word for diving: schwalbe