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[PS360]

Funny. I seem to remember Final Fantasy and Metal Gear originating on Nintendo consoles. And in Japan, Sony has LOST the Dragon Quest franchise (the biggest franchise in Japan) to the DS.

The other franchises you listed are first party, and since you seem to think that Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, and Goldeneye aren't worthy of being mentioned, then I don't think those should count either (I'm just using your logic here).



Again, why do you keep bringing up the legacy from N64 to GameCube? The GameCube was building off of the N64, which was in last place. Forget GameCube. Do not let it enter into your argument ever again. Look at what Nintendo had before the N64. Complete console dominance.



I see no significant evidence of this.



Considering the PS3 is doing worse than BOTH of those systems (and the N64 was actually pretty successful, compared to the GameCube), I'd say they're not in a much better position. Or are you talking about Sony as a whole?



Actually, we don't know about the sales surge yet. NPD tomorrow night. We don't know about the sales surge from God of War (Ratchet & Clank, a franchise you previously said was important for the PS3, did not seem to move any additional units in the month it was released). It remains to be seen what FFCC will do. But again, this is ignoring everything that's on other platforms.

Ok. I concede I haven't given the Nintendo franchises a fair shot. Although i would add that while MGS and FF originating on nintendo's consoles, they never made it to the N64, did they?

Again, why do you keep bringing up the legacy from N64 to GameCube? The GameCube was building off of the N64, which was in last place. Forget GameCube. Do not let it enter into your argument ever again. Look at what Nintendo had before the N64. Complete console dominance.

Yea. Exactly. This is UNLIKE the PS3, which is not building off of a console in last place, it's building off and has potentially the loyalty of one of the biggest console userbases to date, with some of the biggest franchises to date, from a console that's STILL outselling evry next-gen console except the Wii. This is why they're in a better position to come out of the slump than Nintendo was with the GC. Will you lend no credance to this claim?

 

[Aggelos]

Why people like you care SO much about the evidence that the Playstation's brand is in decline ? Every empire fall, sooner or later. It happened with Atari. It happened with Nintendo. It happened with Sega (unfortunate, in a really bad way) and it is happening with Sony. Why it is so strange ?

The PS3 will have great games exactly like the N64 had some of the best games ever. I'm trying to convince myself that you're joking when you say that the N64 hadn't great exclusive. Noooo. It just has had the Best Game Ever with Ocarina of Time and one of the Best Second Party collaboration with Rareware.

Every console has/had great games. Every console has its "moments" in other words.

Its early to say that the SCE empire has fallen. This time around the duel between Xbox360-PS3 won't be like the Xbox-PS2, with PS2's undeniable superiority. That's for sure.

But I think we are jumping the gun if we say that the SCE empire has fallen

 

[koam]

Yea. Exactly. This is UNLIKE the PS3, which is not building off of a console in last place, it's building off and has potentially the loyalty of one of the biggest console userbases to date, with some of the biggest franchises to date, from a console that's STILL outselling evry next-gen console except the Wii. This is why they're in a better position to come out of the slump than Nintendo was with the GC. Will you lend no credance to this claim?

Uhh, i don't think you undestand the point at all. The PS3 is like the N64 NOT the gamecube.

- Building off the success of its highly successful predecesor: CHECK
- Lost many exclusive franchises including Dragon Quest: CHECK
- Market share is in a downward spiral: CHECK
- More powerful than the competition: CHECK
- Many stupid mistakes including thinking brand loyalty would make them prevail: CHECK

Its early to say that the SCE empire has fallen. This time around the duel between Xbox360-PS3 won't be like the Xbox-PS2, with PS2's undeniable superiority. That's for sure.

The battle for second place has begun!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Did someone really put SOCOM, God of War, and Ratchet & Clank on the same level (saleswise) as Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, and Goldeneye? You're off your rocker dude.

The only returning franchises that Sony has on that level are Final Fantasy, Madden, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, and Metal Gear Solid.

I think the wording of the article makes it obvious that 3.6 million is the maximum that could've been in consumer's hands at the end of the fiscal year (since that was the number sold to retailers)...with evidence that PS3's were available just about everywhere, obviously actual sell-through was somewhere between 2.75-3.25 million.

With that many consoles on shelves, I don't think Sony is going to be emptying their wearhouses anytime soon without a massive ($200) price drop.

 

[Jokeropia]

With all due respect you can put together all the N64 franchises you want. They do not compare to Final Fantasy, metal gear solid, gran turismo, ratchet and clank, god of war, socom.

What the hell. :lol

Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64 both outsold every single Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Ratchet and Clank, God of War and Socom in history. Goldeneye outsold them all except FFVII, Ocarina outsold them all except FFVII, VIII and X.

 

[Aggelos]

Who is that lady btw? Is she Lisa Trevor from REmake???

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Every console has/had great games. Every console has its "moments" in other words.

Its early to say that the SCE empire has fallen. This time around the duel between Xbox360-PS3 won't be like the Xbox-PS2, with PS2's undeniable superiority. That's for sure.

But I think we are jumping the gun if we say that the SCE empire has fallen

In fact I've never said it has fallen. But I think it is fair to say that it is in decline. Before the Wii, franky I expected Microsoft to take the ladership in the west and Sony to keep Japan. Nintendo has really surprised everyone and Media Create's charts are the evident prrof that the japan love versus Nintendo has never completely fallen.The same could be with the Playstation. It is absolutely possible that someday, they will surpise the world with some new trick. Who knows ?

In fact, if you think about that a little bit more, only two empires (if you can call it like that) have really fallen in the true sense of the term: Sega and Atari, because they've gone Third Party. Nintendo was still here. Considered as the underdog, but still here. I think it is right to say that Nintendo has lost a battle, but not the war. And the war will never finish, if you understand what I mean.

 

[chibcicylist]

Hi guys!

This thread is now tainted with my essence.

 

[PS360]

Sony needs to act now with the PS3 but the sad reality is, they can't do anything. What does Sony have for the PS3 in the next 6 months? What can possibly come out that will make people go out and buy a PS3? Honestly, I don't think there's anything, there's a game here and there but nothing that's HOLY SHIT. The obvious choice is to price drop.. so what did they do, they removed the $500 version of the console which in effect, means that people have to pay $600 now.

I agree there.

I think in reality the games that WILL sell consoles, without a price drop, will impact the PS3 only to a certain, relatively insignificant extent. But again this is one thing the PS3 has over the N64 and GC. I don't recall people saying "once N64/GC drops in price i'm definitely getting one." And while people did wait for certain games to buy one, I think the upcoming releases for PS3 will have a larger influence; I have seen many commenting that "when (so and so) game comes out I'll get one."

Also, I think the PS3 does have one HOLY SHIT title at least: LBP.

Really the only thing Sony can do is whatever decreases production costs (pushing bluray), and to keep churning out the exclusives that did well on PS1 and PS2. That way, as the price comes down and the console sells to a wider audience, at least the games will be there and ready to go.

 

[Seep]

Who is that lady btw? Is she Lisa Trevor from REmake???

:lol

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

If you consider PS3's price to be a good think, because Sony can low the price where Nintendo with the N64 couldn't, I think that you're without hope. Then put the console's price to 1000 $, so that you can low it 3 more times then the concurrence. Please. Don't make me laugh.

 

[Jammy]

I'm sure somebody has brought this up already but...

With all due respect you can put together all the N64 franchises you want. They do not compare to Final Fantasy, metal gear solid, gran turismo, ratchet and clank, god of war, socom. This goes back to what i said about the lineage of the platform. How many titles did the N64 inherit from the SNES that sold well through the SNES generation? And how many will the PS3 be getting that have sold through the PS2's, and in some cases both the PS1s AND PS2s?

:lol I'm not sure about Gran Turismo, but there were many, many games on the N64 that sold way more than any God of War, SOCOM, and Ratchet and Clank game have. Is this a ****ing joke?

You obviously didn't know how healthy N64 game sales were for the few games that were released. You'd be hard-pressed to find a game that didn't sell a half a million, let alone a million worldwide. Name any Rare game for the system and it most likely sold at least two million worldwide. Zelda: OoT topped seven million, GoldenEye topped five, Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros. were extremely successful. Hell, the freaking Banjo games were as popular if not more than SOCOM and Ratchet. Donkey Kong 64... you name it.

 

[Kilrogg]

I

N64 = successor of the NES and SNES, incontestable winner of the previous generations, multi-million selling franchises (whether you like it or not) exclusive to the console (first-party), cheapest price, most powerful system (advertised so > 64-bits). At the time, Nintendo = gaming.

BUT: games too expensive, late launch, Nintendo royalties too high + quality control too strict.

FAILED.

PS1 = cheap console, cheapest games, few royalties, no quality control; hence freedom for developers, affordable for consumers. Launched before N64.

WON.

II

PS3 = successor of the PS2 and 1, incontestable winner of the previous generations, multi-million selling franchises. Blu-Ray appealing to a low minority of tech geeks and movie whores (nothing wrong with that, except for sales). Most powerful console (remains to be seen). At the time, Playstation = gaming.

BUT: games more expensive, late launch (vs. 360, that is), high development costs, difficult-to-program system, no games for a good while. PLUS: supposedly multi-million selling franchises are NOT exclusive (some already gone multi-platform, some could), 600 bucks (for a Playstation, a GAMING system, remember it). Already selling so-so in Europe and US. Nearly bombing in Japan, even with a price drop.

CURRENTLY FAILING.

Wii = cheapest console, cheapest games, few royalties, more flexible quality control, easy-to-develop-for; hence freedom for developers, affordable for consumers. Launched in time (alongside the PS3, successor of the past generation). PLUS: innovative interface, catering to new audience.

SUPPLY-CONSTRAINED.

I hope you get it now .

 

[Jammy]

I agree there.

I think in reality the games that WILL sell consoles, without a price drop, will impact the PS3 only to a certain, relatively insignificant extent. But again this is one thing the PS3 has over the N64 and GC. I don't recall people saying "once N64/GC drops in price i'm definitely getting one." And while people did wait for certain games to buy one, I think the upcoming releases for PS3 will have a larger influence; I have seen many commenting that "when (so and so) game comes out I'll get one."

Also, I think the PS3 does have one HOLY SHIT title at least: LBP.

Really the only thing Sony can do is whatever decreases production costs (pushing bluray), and to keep churning out the exclusives that did well on PS1 and PS2. That way, as the price comes down and the console sells to a wider audience, at least the games will be there and ready to go.

LBP (*sigh* along with Home) is not anywhere near HOLY SHIT for the common consumer out there. This is almost as ridiculous as MARCH EXCITEMENT!!!

 

[DonasaurusRex]

i will still wait and see what happens after GT, MSG, and a new madden hit the console, if things remain this bleak...ruh roh.

 

[PS360]

LBP (*sigh* along with Home) is not anywhere near HOLY SHIT for the common consumer out there. This is almost as ridiculous as MARCH EXCITEMENT!!!

Uh, $600 is not holy shit for the common consumer. Actually it is, in the sense that it makes people say "holy shit...that thing costs ****ing $600?!?!?"

I think LBP certainly is holy shit for the common consumer. It's just on a platform that's out of the reach of these consumers, and thus won't make an impact until the console itself is viewed as more reasonably priced.

Home is holy shit for many PS3 owners, but no...not for the common consumer. The common consumer is about as interested in a virtual world as they are in a $600 console.

 

[tribal24]

yeah and 600$ most be holy shit for a phone right? everyone knows which phone im talking about>.>, so yeah i dont find 600$ to expensive to the consumers

 

[Miniboss1232]

Ok. I concede I haven't given the Nintendo franchises a fair shot. Although i would add that while MGS and FF originating on nintendo's consoles, they never made it to the N64, did they?

True, I'll give you that much. But I still think that's a moot argument.

Yea. Exactly. This is UNLIKE the PS3, which is not building off of a console in last place, it's building off and has potentially the loyalty of one of the biggest console userbases to date, with some of the biggest franchises to date, from a console that's STILL outselling evry next-gen console except the Wii. This is why they're in a better position to come out of the slump than Nintendo was with the GC. Will you lend no credance to this claim?

*sigh* The PS3 is in a better position than the GameCube, since the GameCube was coming off of the N64, which was not a market leader. I never argued against that. In fact, I believe my original comment simply was there to point out that while a lot of people thought that no one could go up against Nintendo, brand loyalty is fickle, and didn't help them at all with EITHER the N64 or GameCube.

yeah and 600$ most be holy shit for a phone right? everyone knows which phone im talking about>.>, so yeah i dont find 600$ to expensive to the consumers

How is that thing selling anyways? Is it out on the market even?

 

[Steverrific]

Using past video game generations is not going to help anyone draw any useful conclusions about the current gaming market or predicting the future. There are too many variables that have changed, making the correlation too weak to be useful. I know it's convenient, and sounds good, but in my opinion, it's just an easy way out for posters.

Sure, it's fun to post anecdotal evidence that the sales trends of Current X is similar to the Past X of 199X, but you can't honestly believe they're related. The VG market is a turbulent and emerging market. Maybe in a few decades, it will stabilize more, and then history could be a better indicator.

 

[tribal24]

How is that thing selling anyways? Is it out on the market even?

comes out in june but that thing looks like its gonna sell well

 

[chibcicylist]

Let's put it this way guys. Mario has sold 190million games in 20 years. Gran Turismo has sold 50M in 10.

 

[Oblivion]

Uh, $600 is not holy shit for the common consumer. Actually it is, in the sense that it makes people say "holy shit...that thing costs ****ing $600?!?!?"

I think LBP certainly is holy shit for the common consumer. It's just on a platform that's out of the reach of these consumers, and thus won't make an impact until the console itself is viewed as more reasonably priced.

I'll be quite shocked if LBP becomes anything more than a messageboard sweetheart.

Now as for your argument about waiting till pricedrops, well see, here's the thing. Publishers aren't going to wait for the magical pricepoint to appear that'll lead PS3 into victory (unless it comes really, REALLY soon). So although PS3 may have many games that N64 didn't at this point in its life, if things keep going this way, it might not have too many more beyond that.

 

[davepoobond]

Let's put it this way guys. Mario has sold 190million games in 20 years. Gran Turismo has sold 50M in 10.

yes, because Gran Turismo Boy is a character that can be put into many differing situations besides a RACING SIMULATION GAME

look for me in Gran Turismo Boy's Adventure!

 

[Miniboss1232]

Using past video game generations is not going to help anyone draw any useful conclusions about the current gaming market or predicting the future. There are too many variables that have changed, making the correlation too weak to be useful. I know it's convenient, and sounds good, but in my opinion, it's just an easy way out for posters.

Sure, it's fun to post anecdotal evidence that the sales trends of Current X is similar to the Past X of 199X, but you can't honestly believe they're related. The VG market is a turbulent and emerging market. Maybe in a few decades, it will stabilize more, and then history could be a better indicator.

Eh, I don't really agree with that, but you're entitled to that opinion. In any case, I'm not sure what you would try to predict the future with but with previous trends. Otherwise, you're just shooting in the dark. Are a lot of us going to get things wrong? Oh yes, definitely. If the PS3 jumps into the lead in the next six months, well, I'll have enormous amounts of crow pie to eat for sure. But I welcome it.

These are all points of discussion anyways, and many of us are delighted by the "gee whiz" factor of seeing things that are eerily similar to how they played out over 10 years before.

yes, because Gran Turismo Boy is a character that can be put into many differing situations besides a RACING SIMULATION GAME

I'm not exactly sure that negates his point though.

 

[koam]

I agree there.

I think in reality the games that WILL sell consoles, without a price drop, will impact the PS3 only to a certain, relatively insignificant extent. But again this is one thing the PS3 has over the N64 and GC. I don't recall people saying "once N64/GC drops in price i'm definitely getting one." And while people did wait for certain games to buy one, I think the upcoming releases for PS3 will have a larger influence; I have seen many commenting that "when (so and so) game comes out I'll get one."

Also, I think the PS3 does have one HOLY SHIT title at least: LBP.

Really the only thing Sony can do is whatever decreases production costs (pushing bluray), and to keep churning out the exclusives that did well on PS1 and PS2. That way, as the price comes down and the console sells to a wider audience, at least the games will be there and ready to go.

That's because the N64 didn't need to drop in price, it was already cheap (expensive games are another story). Also, where are these games you're talking about? Multiconsole games won't make a console that costs more sell more. Let's look at the franchises that made sony successful and could have helped them this time.

GTA4 -> 360 port
DMC4 -> 360, PC ports
DQ -> Gone to the DS
RE5 -> 360 port, spinoffs on the Wii

There are also many more games (that aren't as major) that have left or are getting ports (Rygar, VF5 etc). Now if you don't think this hurts Sony, it DOES. This removes sales for the PS3 AND increases sales for the 360 and the Wii since they cost less. Sony had the whole pie, but now they're handing out pieces to Nintendo and MSFT.

Franchises aside, you have companies releasing games for their competitors that aren't even reaching the PS3; Lost Planet, Gears of War and Dead Rising come to mind.

What's left?

Oh and LBP will NOT sell millions, it's a niche title that only us hardcore can appreciate.

 

[PS360]

yes, because Gran Turismo Boy is a character that can be put into many differing situations besides a RACING SIMULATION GAME

look for me in Gran Turismo Boy's Adventure!

Where can i get this setup? Tell me now.

 

[Oblivion]

yes, because Gran Turismo Boy is a character that can be put into many differing situations besides a RACING SIMULATION GAME

look for me in Gran Turismo Boy's Adventure!

Even taking out Mario's shitty spinoffs from the total, he's still ahead by quite a big margin.

 

[laserbeam]

yeah and 600$ most be holy shit for a phone right? everyone knows which phone im talking about>.>, so yeah i dont find 600$ to expensive to the consumers

Phones and Video Game consoles are galaxies apart in the consumer mind. People see no issue with spending thaat kind of cash on a phone versus a "fun" device

 

[Jammy]

Uh, $600 is not holy shit for the common consumer. Actually it is, in the sense that it makes people say "holy shit...that thing costs ****ing $600?!?!?"

I think LBP certainly is holy shit for the common consumer. It's just on a platform that's out of the reach of these consumers, and thus won't make an impact until the console itself is viewed as more reasonably priced.

Home is holy shit for many PS3 owners, but no...not for the common consumer. The common consumer is about as interested in a virtual world as they are in a $600 console.

:lol

What makes LBP to them so much worth it over other high quality platformers like Klonoa, Psychonauts, etc. that also flopped?

There's only a couple side-scrolling platformers that sell nowadays and both of them are on Nintendo systems (Mario and Kirby). More specifically, they only do really well on handhelds. On consoles it just isn't the same.

I bet you were one of those ones that thought GTA would do real well on the PSP.

 

[davepoobond]

Even taking out Mario's shitty spinoffs from the total, he's still ahead by quite a big margin.

maybe we should go by amount of games instead of by years?

GT is at 4 games, Mario is at 8 or 9?

 

[Miniboss1232]

maybe we should go by amount of games instead of by years?

GT is at 4 games, Mario is at 8 or 9?

Well, Super Mario Bros. 3 alone sold 2/5 of the entirety of the GT series. Also, I wonder if that 190 million includes the pack-in sales?

 

[chibcicylist]

yes, because Gran Turismo Boy is a character that can be put into many differing situations besides a RACING SIMULATION GAME

look for me in Gran Turismo Boy's Adventure!

Pokemon is number 2 at 150 million and Zelda stands at 50 million at number 7. Donkey Kong is number 8 with48 million. GT is number 9(47 million according to Wikeiedia).

So in total, Nintendo franchises in the top ten sold 400 million copies. Take out the extraneous stuff, I'll be generous, and we could at least be at 200 million for Nintendo. Sony is only at 50.

Conclusion: Nintendo first party stuff is light years ahead of Sony's.

 

[Aggelos]

A positive omen that I could think of for PS3 in 2007:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15931

 

[Hcoregamer00]

You win this thread :lol

 

[reilo]

I love how people pick and choose which past-generation console to compare the PS3 to when it fits their point.

Meaning, everyone's talking out of their ass.

 

[davepoobond]

Pokemon is number 2 at 150 million and Zelda stands at 50 million at number 7. Donkey Kong is number 8 with48 million. GT is number 9(47 million according to Wikeiedia).

So in total, Nintendo franchises in the top ten sold 400 million copies. Take out the extraneous stuff, I'll be generous, and we could at least be at 200 million for Nintendo. Sony is only at 50.

Conclusion: Nintendo first party stuff is light years ahead of Sony's.

i dont even know where to start


are you taking into consideration that Nintendo has been developing first party games for about 3 times as long as Sony has been?

not to mention you're not taking into consideration the average each game sells, as well as quantity of games there actually are for each franchise? you're very selective in presenting the information that works towards your advantage


oh, and you're also using wikipedia

did you edit the numbers before you posted them here?

 

[Powerslave]

Laughing at all the "PS3 is dead" replies.

 

[Kilrogg]

I love how people pick and choose which past-generation console to compare the PS3 to when it fits their point.

Meaning, everyone's talking out of their ass.

My entire point was to show that PS360's original main point is flawed. Brand recognition does not ensure success AT ALL, hence N64 vs. PS3. To add more to the drama, PS3 has its own major drawbacks preventing it from reaching any kind of remarkable success.

 

[Miniboss1232]

i dont even know where to start


are you taking into consideration that Nintendo has been developing first party games for about 3 times as long as Sony has been?

not to mention you're not taking into consideration the average each game sells, as well as quantity of games there actually are for each franchise? you're very selective in presenting the information that works towards your advantage


oh, and you're also using wikipedia

did you edit the numbers before you posted them here?

Please provide us with an exhaustive list to prove your point.

 

[Oblivion]

are you taking into consideration that Nintendo has been developing first party games for about 3 times as long as Sony has been?

Nintendo's been making games since the 1970s?

not to mention you're not taking into consideration the average each game sells, as well as quantity of games there actually are for each franchise? you're very selective in presenting the information that works towards your advantage

I'm pretty sure roughly each new main line Pokemon game has also sold more than each main GT game.

 

[Liquid]

Laughing at all the "PS3 is dead" replies.

oh please. everyone and their mother knew that sony was in trouble when the systems were being spotted all over the place the week of christmas, the busiest shopping week of the year.

 

[Sharp]

Uh, $600 is not holy shit for the common consumer. Actually it is, in the sense that it makes people say "holy shit...that thing costs ****ing $600?!?!?"

I think LBP certainly is holy shit for the common consumer. It's just on a platform that's out of the reach of these consumers, and thus won't make an impact until the console itself is viewed as more reasonably priced.

Home is holy shit for many PS3 owners, but no...not for the common consumer. The common consumer is about as interested in a virtual world as they are in a $600 console.

I know this is going to sound Ntarded but I really don't think that the common consumer wants to actually create games. There are a lot who want to create CONTENT, to express their personalities, which is why I think Home will be a big hit. But people who want to make games tend to be more hardcore gamers, which (along with the general awesomeness that is LBP) is why it's getting so much attention. I love the idea, concept and execution of LBP, but I feel like anyone expecting it to significantly boost hardware sales (especially to casuals) is going to be sorely disappointed.

Home, on the other hand... if it's implemented properly and is easy enough to use, that could be the PS3's ticket to (relative) mainstream success.

 

[Uncooked]

Nintendo's been making games since the 1970s?

Yes they have been making game since the 1970's.

 

[Oblivion]

Yes they have been making game since the 1970's.

Fine. First party console video games? How's that?

 

[koam]

Yes they have been making game since the 1970's.

Nintendo's first real console was in 1985 so we should count from there. Sony made games way before the PS1 if you want to play that card.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

are you taking into consideration that Nintendo has been developing first party games for about 3 times as long as Sony has been?

Well, not quite. Famicom has been around nearly 24 years. PlayStation about 12.5.

Nintendo's been making games since the 1970s?

Well, yes, but not first-party games in the console manufacturer sense.

 

[Sharp]

Oh BTW davepoopond that Wikipedia article actually cites its sources. I hope you're not seriously suggesting that chibi edited the numbers to prove a point, since Sales-Age would have discredited the numbers immediately were they inaccurate.

 

[Oblivion]

Well, yes, but not first-party games in the console manufacturer sense.

Right, I wasn't counting the card thing and whatever miscellaneous stuff they did.

 

[davepoobond]

Oh BTW davepoopond that Wikipedia article actually cites its sources. I hope you're not seriously suggesting that chibi edited the numbers to prove a point, since Sales-Age would have discredited the numbers immediately were they inaccurate.

well its not like he sourced it as far as i can see. i dont even know which "that wikipedia article" he's referencing to to begin with

 

[Odrion]

Home needs to be a success badly.