This.
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343 industries looking for a new Narrative Director
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Twilight Gap
Member
I disagree. I think it's inherently a stupid premise in the same vein that travelling to a "Force planet" in Star Wars was. It pushed the sci fi into fantasy and I don't think that's where Halo's strength lies.
For what it's worth though, I don't care for any of the Forerunner mythology. Once it was established that the humans used to be space faring and that the Forerunners "seeded" the human race hundreds of thousands of years ago, I checked out and I feel like it's only gotten dumber ever since.
SpartanN92
Banned
Explain to me what is Fantasy about a Dyson Sphere?
Twilight Gap
Member
My point is simply that what happened on Requiem made suspending disbelief much more difficult within the Halo universe as it was established in the games prior, and consequently removed its mystery and tension.
I also do not think that a dyson sphere carries as much wonder as a giant floating ring in space. Obviously 343's execution of the concept could have been better, but I do not find the differences between the two significant enough to allow them to coexist in the first place.
It seems you don't like a part of the story that's been there since the start. You can't simply discount/discard that from the story.
Enjoying the more current day war stories is fine, and it seems like 343 is trying to provide a more compelling war with the introduction of the banished and hopefully the created end up falling into something similar to the flood
after some crazy logic Cortana has come to
In addition to this we have 2 more brute factions, One still highly religious, and the other is a Chieftain that the Swords of Sanghelios have allied with. The galaxy is in a good place to set up some compelling stories and hopefully this move signals that this is what they want to do.
I agree that the Forerunner mythology is an utterly boring thing to explore, the grandiose end game somebody-has-to-be-the-one trope needs to take a huge backseat. However, Forerunner society on the other hand is a far more interesting aspect to exploretheir decent and fall can be compelling thing to explore. Much like Covenant is explored in Halo 2, the same can be done for the Forerunners.
Then again, I also feel that the Forerunner should have never been introduced. Them being mystery was far more compelling.
Twilight Gap
Member
I admit I have never cared for the Forerunner backstory because it is largely irrelevant. I think the universe is at its best when it's dealing with the costs of war, the spectacle of alien worlds, and their significance to those that discover them. It seems to always fall apart when it tried to explain why any of that is there after the first game, and I don't think that's been rectified under new management.
Halo 4's most intriguing line of dialog to me is that the Covenant spent years waiting outside the planet for it to open - something that you learn from a terminal buried in wreckage. I wouldn't say that throw away plot point justifies writing Requiem as a dyson sphere.
CalamityPixel
Member
Twilight Gap
Member
They would have had to be introduced eventually - and in a way I think 343 was on the right track by letting the humans wake them up, unbeknownst to them what dangers that would bring. I just find that it was all way too heavy handed.
That's my opinion though of course. What attracted me to Halo was in large part its mystery and its otherworldly spectacle. Everything is much more on the nose now, but at the same time I don't understand any of it, nor do I see its significance to the universe.
Twilight Gap
Member
Not if you like the universe and have a vision for where it ought to go. But without any sort of creative control (i.e. the ability to retcon), it probably would not be an effective position
I honestly think you're going to get what you want. Think about it The humans have been weakened severely with the loss of most of their AI so now they will be forced to be more reliant on the SoS instead of being independent and powerful like they were in 4 and at the beginning of 5. The Galaxies Center of power has been shattered and there are so many groups trying to grab it. I think were going to see more stories where the UNSC Faces devastating Loss once again and can't just rely on things like the infinity and Master Chief to win.
In addition to this I think a more Star Wars style vibe of a connected universe is going to happen now that humanity will have to mingle with the other races (I'm Speaking at the civilian level).
I don't think all hope is lost and Halo Wars 2 and Halo 5 have set up a pretty cool course for us to go on.
Not many game franchises have so much lore and eu to work with Like halo... plus no one forces them to work there they probably want to.
FunkyPajamas
Member
CE is still the highlight of the series for me so I'm fine with this.
Halo 2 had a crap story and made two giant mistakes in bringing back the Flood, who should've stayed dead, and returning us to a Halo ring after barely one level on earth.
Should've been entirely set on earth with some space station/ship segments, they mucked it up by bringing back the flood and the little shop of horrors villain.
I liked the Forerunners more when they were mysterious. I also liked them more in Halo: Legends and in the early prototyping that Bungie had.
To this date, I can only laugh about the Watcher/Crawler reveal that leaked through the toys before Halo 4 was shown at E3. I never thought that the leak would become true nor did I think that they are Forerunner origin. They are nothing that I'd have ever imagined in a Halo game, after these:
Now the only real big mystery in the Halo Universe are the Precursors and I hope that stays that way.
Can't agree with anything you said there. Halo 2's story is pretty much on the top when it comes to Halo games. Halo Reach is a good contender, too.
To this date, I can only laugh about the Watcher/Crawler reveal that leaked through the toys before Halo 4 was shown at E3. I never thought that the leak would become true nor did I think that they are Forerunner origin. They are nothing that I'd have ever imagined in a Halo game, after these:
Now the only real big mystery in the Halo Universe are the Precursors and I hope that stays that way.
Can't agree with anything you said there. Halo 2's story is pretty much on the top when it comes to Halo games. Halo Reach is a good contender, too.
Caayn
Member
Bringing the Forerunners back to the foreground was bound to be a failure. Demystifying them made the Forerunners feel like just another species instead of the creatures of old with amazing technology.I liked the Forerunners more when they were mysterious. I also liked them more in Halo: Legends and in the early prototyping that Bungie had.
To this date, I can only laugh about the Watcher/Crawler reveal that leaked through the toys before Halo 4 was shown at E3. I never thought that the leak would become true nor did I think that they are Forerunner origin. They are nothing that I'd have ever imagined in a Halo game, after these:
War machines from a race with millions of years of technological advancement that can be harmed and destroyed with relative ease with bullets from a species that's just started looking around in the galaxy always seemed odd to me.
Agree, the Precursors still feel like a great mystic race of creatures. I do hope that we'll get a subtle nod to them in the future.
I refuse to believe that they're dead not counting flood forms
A "single" franchise on the scope of something like Halo has a lot of opportunities for a writer with a science-fiction affinity. Solid financial backing for multimedia franchise writing has a strong draw. Some people thrive in a more freelance-like structure, but let's not pretend this is a bad gig.
I'm really not sure about that. They could have handled them entirely different like making them friendly for example, but instead they had to pull the boring and obvious Hollywood thing and awake an "ancient evil" that still wants revenge on the humans after all these years. I still can't believe how the whole Didact stuff played out. So awful, especially the comic part.
Agree on the technological advancement part, though.
Maybe you just solved the mystery on why Prometheans are such bullet sponges.
FunkyPajamas
Member
That Precursor spider/brain/scorpion thing is way too cool/frightening to not be included in a game as a giant boss. Then again, Halo games have always had terrible boss fights (even before 343i) so I'm a bit conflicted.
The forerunner's, Was such an amazing creatures, full of mystery. Liked them in Halo legends.
Now, well.... Meh
343 handled them very good in Halo legends,
And Reach the animated series was so amazing. It could have been Halo 5 for that matter. Walking you through Chiefs past and letting you know the Blue team in an awesome way, from young to legendary team of Spartans. Ending in present timeline and ready for Halo 6.
Without the crap we got from Osiris.
So much better introduction of Blue team than in Halo 5 and it would have been better game.
Really waste of opportunities right there. If done right, it could rival CE.
They can tell good stories obviously, but not in games. So maybe its better to just overseas Halo?
Now, well.... Meh
343 handled them very good in Halo legends,
And Reach the animated series was so amazing. It could have been Halo 5 for that matter. Walking you through Chiefs past and letting you know the Blue team in an awesome way, from young to legendary team of Spartans. Ending in present timeline and ready for Halo 6.
Without the crap we got from Osiris.
So much better introduction of Blue team than in Halo 5 and it would have been better game.
Really waste of opportunities right there. If done right, it could rival CE.
They can tell good stories obviously, but not in games. So maybe its better to just overseas Halo?
LordBaztion
Member
Probably they are looking for someone to make the games with less story.
Add to that these incredible war machines are made as little jumping dog designs, or fat, slow, lumbering knights (?). You got to wonder who green lighted these pathetic designs.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Halo 2 had a shit story and an even shittier ending.
Halo 3 story was forgettable and I don't even remember what happened in 4 and 5. Except Didactic?
Just start again.
Fata1moose
Banned
While Halo 2's story was transitionary, it had some of the best dialogue in the series. I enjoyed it for what it was, cliffhanger ending or not.
VincentMatts
Member
I was thinking that too. Plus hes back at MS, so why not? Guess hes not down for it. Damn shame cause thats exactly what they need, more core bungie guys on halo.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
This is what I keep saying.
Just go the Star Wars Episode VII route and effectively remake Halo CE.
The Legendary ending of Halo 5 already hints at a return to a Halo ring. So you simply start Halo 6 on the Infinity as your tutorial/intro mission with training and character intros. The Infinity is supposedly where the multiplayer takes place yeah? So even have a "mini mission" on board the Infinity as training.
Then land on the ring in mission 2. Silent Cartographer style.
Go from there.
BleedOrange
Banned
This strikes me as either fanboy drivel or an an extremely uninformed opinion. It's like saying working on Star Wars must be depressing. As if a variety of different stories, set in different genres cant be told.
VincentMatts
Member
What they should actually do is remake Halo CE, but have us play as the regular soldiers that accompany the chief. They can make the two paths intertwine once in a while (at the moments where chief in the original CE game has the soldiers with him) and other times the soldiers could be on side missions to help the chief out while hes going through the main CE campaign.
I think it would be absolutely fantastic to play as the grunt in a side story (not a main halo) and would also give 343 the opportunity to innovate and change the gameplay. Plus CE is familiar and great enough that i dont think anyone wouldnt wanna go back to that space in some capacity. Seeing more of that Halo can only be a good thing.
My man, if Halo 2-5 were reskinned and retextured as new IPs they would all be forgettable 6.5's.
I would say reboot the whole damn thing but Halo CE is so damn good that really deserves a sequel on the level of Half Life 2 or Max Payne 2.
Halo 2 was a mess that I'm convinced we all bargained ourselves into liking because CE was so great. It went even further downhill after that. Best in industry sound design, nostalgia and our collective hope are the only things keeping the series alive.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I agree with this so much. I hated the way they teased the Covenant finding earth with the amazing (fake) E3 demo, and then in the game you spend literally two levels on earth before you're whisked off to another Halo. It felt like such a cop-out, and I was looking forward to a war with the Covenant on home turf.
smashballTaz
Member
Halo Reach and ODST were fantastic, both in gameplay and storyline. More of that, please.
Armor Lock broke the game especially in multiplayer. Campaign characters died too quickly. Still no follow up on the Spartan who survived.
ODST had an annoying low health warning beep that I can only tolerate for so long.
They killed any mystery of Requiem and the feeling of being lost and loneliness in Halo 4 by introducing the UNSC Infinity and humanity like 3 missions in.
Imagine what they could have done were it just Chief and a rampant Cortana alone on Requiem. You learn more about the lore of Forerunners, who they really were, all in game. You learn about the Didact and the Librarian. You visit tbe various locales. And then only at the very very end, does humanity and Earth learn Chief is alive. They knew they messed it all up. It is why they threw Requiem into a sun, supposedly killed Didact off in a comic, and then ended the Halsey revenge and Jul M'Dama plot one mission into H5 with a cutscene no less.
Imagine what they could have done were it just Chief and a rampant Cortana alone on Requiem. You learn more about the lore of Forerunners, who they really were, all in game. You learn about the Didact and the Librarian. You visit tbe various locales. And then only at the very very end, does humanity and Earth learn Chief is alive. They knew they messed it all up. It is why they threw Requiem into a sun, supposedly killed Didact off in a comic, and then ended the Halsey revenge and Jul M'Dama plot one mission into H5 with a cutscene no less.
Twilight Gap
Member
I admit that would have been far more interesting because any exploration of Requiem as it existed as a dyson sphere was immediately abandoned after the 3rd mission.
_Aaron_
Member
I mean, you could argue that they did that 30 seconds into the game by having a Covenant splinter faction appear.
I've been saying that for years now. Requiem could have used another one or two missions before they introduced the Promethean and the Didact aswell as the UNSC Infinity. As for the Didact's fate he was confirmed by Brian Reed to be alive. I hope 343i brings him back at some point as his role in the series doesn't seem to be finished yet.
Halo 2s plot is vastly superior to the relatively barebones Halo CE, and this is coming from someone who loves CE.
CE's strength was never the actual plot; it was barebones to begin with and arguably didn't start until halfway though. However the plot suited the game well. The atmosphere, mystery and environments told a far greater story than the dialogue ever did.
Halo 2 then came with vastly superior dialogue based story telling, but still managed to keep the story told through the environment, especially on Delta Halo and High Charity. The mystery wasn't as great but frankly:
A. It's impossible to be mysterious forever. Nobody gave a shit about the Forerunner artifact in Reach for that reason.
B. The first game will always leave the most room for imagination by definition.
Like it or not, Halo 2 is in any ways the foundation of Halo's story, with many extended universe novels and Halo installments based on it.
Hell Halo 2 greatly influenced Halo 3, ODST, 4 and 5 in significant ways from a narrative design and cinematic perspective.
I'd argue that Reach is the only Halo game post 2004 that doesn't follow through Halo 2's footsteps.
CE's strength was never the actual plot; it was barebones to begin with and arguably didn't start until halfway though. However the plot suited the game well. The atmosphere, mystery and environments told a far greater story than the dialogue ever did.
Halo 2 then came with vastly superior dialogue based story telling, but still managed to keep the story told through the environment, especially on Delta Halo and High Charity. The mystery wasn't as great but frankly:
A. It's impossible to be mysterious forever. Nobody gave a shit about the Forerunner artifact in Reach for that reason.
B. The first game will always leave the most room for imagination by definition.
Like it or not, Halo 2 is in any ways the foundation of Halo's story, with many extended universe novels and Halo installments based on it.
Hell Halo 2 greatly influenced Halo 3, ODST, 4 and 5 in significant ways from a narrative design and cinematic perspective.
I'd argue that Reach is the only Halo game post 2004 that doesn't follow through Halo 2's footsteps.
Earth is a terribly boring setting for a game like Halo. Why would you want to spend more time in urban war zones when there's an entire universe full of mysteries for you to explore?
You're already fighting to save the galaxy/universe, focusing on a single planet isn't going to raise the stakes.
It was a lost cause from the start because Requiem never reads (visually) as a (mini)Dyson sphere.
I don't actually understand the way Requiem is laid out, like, at all. It's a Dyson-ish sphere, but the game appears to take place on the exterior surface of another planetoid inside it, which in turn is also hollow with a tiny Dyson sphere-ish surface at the core.
This nesting doll planetoid could still be an interesting sci-fi setting, but they just didn't seem interested in indulging in megastructure porn, as if that weren't a big part of the appeal of Halo.
I found it appealing, even then I knew there was going to other environments to explore. Still though, I was hyped for this in the summer of 2004.
Considering that Earth was the last stronghold the UNSC had, a major Covenant invasion in Halo 2 of Earth would have increased the stakes drastically.
Ichabod
Banned
Only if I'm paid in Doritos and Code Red Mountain Dew.
Sure, it's appealing for a change of pace, I just don't think it should be the primary setting. Halo 3 suffered quite a bit by spending half of its campaign on Earth, even if those were its best levels design-wise.
As for that cool weird-looking New Mombasa, I feel like toning it down was a good move, if only because it provides contrast between a more familiar setting and fantastical alien environments.
That's only true if we assume that the series is done with life-ending threats on a galactic scale, and we've already saved the entire universe in the first game.
Even then, the worst case scenario is that we lose a planet which we don't need for the series to continue, a large scale military defeat also doesn't affect us because it's (it used to be) a series about a lone super soldier dealing with galactic threats by shooting and punching stuff.
Given where the UNSC ended up post-Bungie, a big defeat like that could mean good things for the series and take the story in a more interesting direction. Total extinction? Not so much.
RubberJohnny
Banned
That was Halo 4 - set mostly within a single location, first mission in space, second stranded on the surface. Single ship up against the covenant as the villains with the real threat being a third faction introduced as a twist halfway through the game, and a race against time to stop a superweapon, etc.