Support NeoGAF

[Hero of Legend]

To me the 3DS is like the middleman when it comes to what it can put out visually.

For example, Capcom had very positive things to say about it's performance in regards to their MT Framework Mobile engine:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407060

http://andriasang.com/comp7w/3ds_mt_framework_detailed/

The game's graphics rendering pipeline is, when looked at from a far, almost identical to that of Resident Evil 5. The game has such things as HDR Rendering, Self Shadows and Normal Maps. Effects like color correction, depth of field, gamma correction and such have also already been implemented. During 3D use, the game will maintain a 30 frames per second output.

(OP claims it said it uses ALL of the PS360 techniques, so I don't know...)

So in that one area it seems to really outperform the Wii.

But the true question and I think this is grossly not known well enough about, is just how the 3DS performs above PSP in polys, textures, you name it. Same goes for PS2 GC and Xbox?

I think it's safe to say the Wii outperforms in those areas.

If you remove the advance techniques Capcom mentioned, where does it stand against PSP? And the aforementioned pre-gen platforms?

It's worth noting that some PS2 games that got ported to 3DS seemingly made a perfect transition, like Tales of the Abyss, I've not heard of any compromises and they even fixed the framerate of the overworld.

MGS3 is another PS2 port, but some said it ran worse, but they had some other adjustments (like changing/improving facial textures IIRC so who knows, the port was by Hexadrive and not Kojima Pro internally).

Perhaps some tech wizards have delved into the chips and found the answers or have the best educated guesses.

Any Gaffers with wisdom to share?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

To me it's about PSP levels. Not that great but it does the job.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

My impression is between PSP and PS2. Apparently it has some more advanced shader stuff tho?

 

[Y2Kev]

I'm impressed by things like luigi's mansion and resident evil revelations. It's obviously beyond psp. Maybe to ps2 levels? Though with more shading capability.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Seems a bit higher than PSP with more advanced GPU capabilities.

 

[Risk Breaker]

PSP 1.7? PS2 0.9? Dunno

 

[Alchemy]

I believe the raw horsepower is slightly above the PSP, but it has programmable shaders.

 

[QisTopTier]

I'm impressed by things like luigi's mansion and resident evil revelations. It's obviously beyond psp. Maybe to ps2 levels?

Yeah it seems to be between xbox and ps2 levels

 

[DR2K]

Between N64 and Wii, depends on the game.

 

[H_Prestige]

PSP 1.5 with a shittier screen.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Was Abyss consider a high-end PS2 game? Wasn't it in 60 frames on PS2 (battles pretty much)? It's always 30 on 3DS, that's another note to make.

 

[GhostTrick]

Beyond PSP and PS2.
We've seen a lot of things beyond PSP with 3DS but there's still PS2 titles that manages to look better than 3DS. Why ? Because of the budget. If 3DS had a good dedicated budget for a game it could best what PS2 offered. So 3DS is like PS2 with modern shaders. Also it's below GameCube and Xbox.
About Vita, I'd say it's on par with Xbox in terms of power, but with modern shaders.

 

[Snakeyes]

It's a bit under the GC in terms of geometry and roughly Xbox level for everything else.

 

[gngf123]

Around PSP levels with some support for more advanced rendering techniques.

 

[JordanN]

It's far beyond a PSP.

Do people not know what PICA200 is?

Edit: Found the newer specs. Not listed are anti-aliasing and 24/32-bit colour depth.

 

[flippedb]

Above PSP. Around Wii levels + shaders, maybe? MonHun 3G looks pretty good, and the framerate seems solid.

 

[GaimeGuy]

It has shader capabilities that are slighly beyond what's possible in the 360 and PS3. In terms of raw environmental complexity (# of polygons) it's around (or slightly below) PS2/GC/Xbox.

 

[mullet2000]

It's clearly better than the PSP but I don't know if i'd quite say it's the same quality as the PS2.

Though, maybe the low resolution is just throwing me off in that regard.

 

[frankie_baby]

It's far beyond a PSP.

Do people not know what PICA200 is?

worth noting the chip in 3ds runs at 266mhz

 

[Totobeni]

I'd say Gamecube level.

 

[bryehn]

PSPish for the most part because of the native resolution. Luigi's Mansion looks reaaly good though.

I can't help but wonder what it would have been like if Nintendo basically took the 3DS and gave it two, non-3D screens as nice as the Vita's or a nice phone.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Mario 3D Land looks like galaxy sometimes so id say maybe even better than ps2.

 

[Hero of Legend]

It has shader capabilities that are slighly beyond what's possible in the 360 and PS3. In terms of raw environmental complexity (# of polygons) it's around (or slightly below) PS2/GC/Xbox.

Slightly beyond? WAT?

I will what shader capabilities that have been demonstrated even close to show that it's even slightly beyond PS360? That'd be wonderful, but I just can't see that being possible.

 

[serplux]

To me it's about PSP levels. Not that great but it does the job.

The 3DS has a much stronger CPU (An ARM11-based dual core working at the frequency of 268Mhz compared to the 1-333Mhz scalable MIPS of the PSP) and GPU (the PICA200 working at 400Mhz with 6MB on-board VRAM of the 3DS compared to the 166Mhz Sony's custom chip with 2MB on-board VRAM) and it works at a higher resolution (the PSP's resolution is 480x272, the 3DS's is 800×240 pixels, 400×240 per-eye in 3D mode). The 3DS also has a better fillrate (1.6 billion pixels per second compared to 664 million for the PSP). To top it all off, the PSP has 32-64MB RAM depending on the model, wheras the 3DS has 128MB, plus it's in a faster standard.

So yeah. It's more capable than the PSP.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Mario 3D Land looks like galaxy sometimes so id say maybe even better than ps2.

I dunno man. While I was playing 3D Land my impression always was ''looks like galaxy but way worse''.

Might be the screen tho.

 

[DR2K]

Was Abyss consider a high-end PS2 game? Wasn't it in 60 frames on PS2 (battles pretty much)? It's always 30 on 3DS, that's another note to make.

No Tales game was high end on PS2.

 

[Randdalf]

It's the CPU that's holding it back, if I understand correctly.

 

[bobbychalkers]

I'm no techie but it seems to be around PS2 levels with more modern bells and whistles.

 

[The_Intruder]

Between psp and GC IMO, thanks to the more advanced GPU capabilities.

 

[Aguirre]

below original xbox, probably ps2 level.

 

[orioto]

Mario 3D Land looks like galaxy sometimes so id say maybe even better than ps2.

Yeah not really, 3ds is just good at putting the polys where you see them.

 

[GhostTrick]

It's the CPU that's holding it back, if I understand correctly.

Indeed. GPU wise it was kinda fine, but CPU is kinda low clocked. Or at least, they could have allowed second core to be used for games too (who cares about multi task on handheld.)

 

[gngf123]

Slightly beyond? WAT?

I will what shader capabilities that have been demonstrated even close to show that it's even slightly beyond PS360? That'd be wonderful, but I just can't see that being possible.

I'm not a tech guy but...

As far as I know the PS3 uses Open GL ES 1.0's API. The 3DS takes some things from a later API - so while the hardware might be considerably worse than the 360 or PS3, it supports some rendering techniques not supported in those consoles.

This does not mean the 3DS can output PS3 graphics.

 

[frankie_baby]

I dunno man. While I was playing 3D Land my impression always was ''looks like galaxy but way worse''.

Might be the screen tho.

you could say something looks way worse than galaxy but still be above ps2 though

 

[brumx]

Its at about at DOA2 Dreamcast and not Shenmue level graphics.

 

[Hero of Legend]

No Tales game was high end on PS2.

Might explain the well-done transition.

Also shouldn't we take under consideration of the 3DS' rendering of an image twice for 3D, or is that just really consider a resolution display of 800x240 while utilizing the proper specs?

Aside from I guess framerate and AA, what benefit is there to 2D and not using the 3D effect tech-wise? Some said that 3D isn't as taxing as most think, but still...

 

[CSX]

sharper than PSP

 

[frankie_baby]

Indeed. GPU wise it was kinda fine, but CPU is kinda low clocked. Or at least, they could have allowed second core to be used for games too (who cares about multi task on handheld.)

the second core has been at least partly been used by games for over a year

 

[Bravocado]

IF it didn't have to render the screen in 3D, that extra power could probably push it above the PS2/GC/Xbox. Hell, I'm pretty sure some of the early previews before release had some devs alluding to that too.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

you could say something looks way worse than galaxy but still be above ps2 though

True. It has this feel that some things indeed look better than PS2 but everything else is struggling. Sounds about right what some here are saying that it is the CPU that is the bottleneck and not GPU.

 

[javac]

According to 3Dbrew.org in regards to the specifications.

SoC Nintendo 1048 0H (Custom): CPU, GPU, VRAM & DSP all on one chip.

Processor Core ARM11 MPCore 2x 268MHz & 2x VFP Co-Processor

GPU DMP PICA 268MHz

DSP 134Mhz. 24ch 32728Hz sampling rates.

VRAM 6 MB within SoC. Independent of system memory (FCRAM).

FCRAM 2x64MB Fujitsu MB82M8080-07L

Storage Toshiba THGBM2G3P1FBAI8 1GB NAND Flash

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I'm impressed with the 3ds, it's more powerful than a psp and some games like Kid Icarus just look beautiful.

 

[GhostTrick]

Its at about at DOA2 Dreamcast and not Shenmue level graphics.

Well as I said, it's because of budget. Handheld games get smaller budgets, so there's less room for good graphics.

 

[Fularu]

I don't think the PS2 could pull off 3G, it's definitely better than a GC too, probably on par with the OG Xbox on some levels, way beyond on others (shaders), behind on others

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

PS2...? Xbox...? Haha don't be rediculous.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I'm impressed with the 3ds, it's more powerful than a psp and some games like Kid Icarus just look beautiful.

3DS is fine but it is hardly impressive (outside of glassless 3D).

I'm still confused why the battery dies so friggin fast while in sleep mode.

 

[gngf123]

Indeed. GPU wise it was kinda fine, but CPU is kinda low clocked. Or at least, they could have allowed second core to be used for games too (who cares about multi task on handheld.)

Correct me if I'm wrong... but I'm pretty sure I remember some devs saying they had partial access to that second core.

If I remember correctly, Resident Evil: Revelations was one of those games.

 

[Snakeyes]

Makes you wonder what kind of powah even Scrooge McTendo will be able to cram in its next handheld if mobile technology keeps progressing at its current pace.

 

[GhostTrick]

I don't think the PS2 could pull off 3G, it's definitely better than a GC too, probably on par with the OG Xbox on some levels, way beyond on others (shaders), behind on others

No way it's on par with OG Xbox or better than Gamecube. At least in terms of raw power. When it comes to rendering, maybe.

 

[flippedb]

We have to consider the possibility that Nintendo did something to the console with the last update, since it seems games are running at higher framerates.