Support NeoGAF

[1.21Gigawatts]

Like you said, how about these politicians wait until the picture is more clear before joining in on Twitter right away.

Taking to Twitter right away to give a different perspective is something I think more people should do.
Its not like she accused anyone of anything, but she reminded people that we also have to think about how we are dealing with things like that, which is very important in my opinion since we've seen in the US what can happen when you disregard the lives of criminals or people assumed to be criminals.

The police is not the judicial branche. When they need to kill someone this is first and foremost a failure of the system we intended.
We now have to evaluate whether or not this was truly the last resort and therefore inevitable.

She may be voicing an unpopular point of view, obviously most people aren't usually concerned with the well beeing or fair treatment of criminals, but we should, because the values we wrote down in the first article of our (german) constitution states that we should.
It doesn't reference the dignity of germans, it doesn't reference the dignity of law abiding people, if references the dignity of man.

Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar. Sie zu achten und zu schützen ist Verpflichtung aller staatlichen Gewalt.

The dignity of man is inviolable. To respect and protect it is the duty of all state authority.

Her question is one of the the necessary questions that need to be asked now. The fact that it will be investigated anyway isn't really relevant here. She is not required to wait until after an investigation to ask important questions.
Its not like she expected an definitive answer right away. Her goal was to make people think.

Der linke Gutmensch

Is this GAF or the AFD Parteitag?

 

[Markoman]

He did attack the police according to the reports, but man. Rarely have I seen so much Klartext on German TV, wow.

http://vid.pr0gramm.com/2016/07/19/4c23b8ceaefd90cf.mp4

edit: Also of note, maybe: this was SEK (SWAT team) that apparently happened to be nearby, not your average police force.

Thumbs up for Mr. Wendt who reacts like a real person here.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Taking to Twitter right away to give a different perspective is something I think more people should do.

Would you take the same narrative when a stabbing is taking place next time and people straight away jump on the "must be a Muslim" train on Twitter?

Its not like she accused anyone of anything, but she reminded people that we also have to think about how we are dealing with things like that, which is very important in my opinion since we've seen in the US what can happen when you disregard the lives of criminals or people assumed to be criminals.

Europe is not the US. But lately I feel that we are taking events and news from the US and apply it to local things here. Suddenly we question the police in these things, because we have seen a lot of things wrong on the other side of the Atlantic. Even when most European countries have proven time and time again they do mostly good investigations in these matters.

The police is not the judicial branche. When they need to kill someone this is first and foremost a failure of the system we intended.
We now have to evaluate whether or not this was truly the last resort and therefore inevitable.

She may be voicing an unpopular point of view, obviously most people aren't usually concerned with the well beeing or fair treatment of criminals, but we should, because the values we wrote down in the first article of our (german) constitution states that we should.
It doesn't reference the dignity of germans, it doesn't reference the dignity of law abiding people, if references the dignity of man.


Her question is one of the the necessary questions that need to be asked now. The fact that it will be investigated anyway isn't really relevant here. She is not required to wait until after an investigation to ask important questions.
Its not like she expected an definitive answer right away. Her goal was to make people think.

No, it is not a necessary question now. Necessary is to have an investigation team go over all the events and publish their findings.

What exactly are people going to think about? What is the goal here? Do we have a problem with cops shooting a lot of people in Germany lately?

 

[mnz]

Taking to Twitter right away to give a different perspective is something I think more people should do.

Yeah right, that's always a great idea...

 

[Chairmanchuck]

What exactly are people going to think about? What is the goal here? Do we have a problem with cops shooting a lot of people in Germany lately?

I am not quite sure where I heard it from (maybe my police law lecture in University) but afaik only 5-10 gunshots are usually fired annualy in Germany by police.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Would you take the same narrative when a stabbing is taking place next time and people straight away jump on the "must be a Muslim" train on Twitter?

Thats a completely different thing. One is an accussation based on racism, the other a valid concern about police acting according to law.

Europe is not the US. But lately I feel that we are taking events and news from the US and apply it to local things here. Suddenly we question the police in these things, because we have seen a lot of things wrong on the other side of the Atlantic. Even when most European countries have proven time and time again they do mostly good investigations in these matters.

Nothing wrong with beeing very careful.
Why is the police so offended here anyways? Someone asked if they acted according to law... big deal.

No, it is not a necessary question now. Necessary is to have an investigation team go over all the events and publish their findings.

Of course its a necessary question, thatswhy we are having an investigation to answer the question.

What exactly are people going to think about? What is the goal here? Do we have a problem with cops shooting a lot of people in Germany lately?

No, we don't. But it can't hurt to remind ourselfs that someone died today and thats a bad thing, too.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Of course its a necessary question, thatswhy we are having an investigation to answer the question.
.

Of course it is, but the question shouldnt be asked now. Thats the thing. We dont know anything about it and it will be investigated. Then we will see whether it was necessary or not.

Künast also doesnt have much more information than a normal citizen when she asked that. So asking that question at that time is just stupid as we dont know any detailed information. The only ones who do are the people involved in that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Thats a completely different thing. One is an accussation based on racism, the other a valid concern about police acting according to law.

They are both based on a lack of facts and jumping straight towards conclusions.

Nothing wrong with beeing very careful.
Why is the police so offended here anyways? Someone asked if they acted according to law... big deal.

Because it is a strange question to ask right after what is basically a terrorist attack. The guy tried to kill multiple people. He got shot because he wouldn't give up and was still a danger. Yet you have a politician jumping straight at the police.

Of course its a necessary question, thatswhy we are having an investigation to answer the question.

And that will be answered in the investigation. Hence my bolded now.

No, we don't. But it can't hurt to remind ourselfs that someone died today and thats a bad thing, too.

So there isn't a problem. We trust the police to do a solid investigation in this. And that is that. So why jump on Twitter asking questions like that right away?

It also can't hurt to remind ourselves that a mad man attacked multiple people, some of which who got seriously hurt and these police officers stopped him before he could make more victims.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Sarcasm?

No, that wasn't sarcasm. This isn't Islamic terrorism. Treating it as such is a misuse of the word. What does it even mean if it applies to everything?

 

[Phantast2k]

ISIS has released a video featuring the ISIS 'soldier' responsible for the attack:

So he basically swore allegiance to ISIS through skype or some shit like that.

Seems like it could've been planned (14. July):
@MPPregent
Flynn on @megynkelly talking about ISIS warning to Germany - this photo is populating IS social media accounts



Though I find it a bit reassuring that it's the best they can do atm. in Germany.

 

[CheDominik]

It doesn't reference the dignity of germans, it doesn't reference the dignity of law abiding people, if references the dignity of man.

Art. 1 GG matters very little in a legal way. It certainly doesn't apply in this case.

 

[Kinyou]

ISIS has released a video featuring the ISIS 'soldier' responsible for the attack:

I suppose this means they had contact with him? Or was that picture floating around on the internet already?

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

They are both based on a lack of facts and jumping straight towards conclusions.

Asking a question isn't "jumping to conclusions" in my book.

And that will be answered in the investigation. Hence my bolded now.
So whats wrong with a politicians bringing some atention to this important question?

It also can't hurt to remind ourselves that a mad man attacked multiple people, some of which who got seriously hurt and these police officers stopped him before he could make more victims.

Thats not something we need to remind ourself of. Thats obvious.

Art. 1 GG matters very little in a legal way. It certainly doesn't apply in this case.

Art. 1 also says that all laws and procedures in germany are based on these articles.
They are the foundation of german law. The laws that regulate usage of force by police are based on Art. 1(1) among others.

I wouldn't say it doesn't matter.

 

[Hex]

There are more terrorists in the world than just Islam related.

Not only that, I can see "Isis related" but saying Muslim related immediately is a part of the problem.

 

[Kinyou]

So whats wrong with a politicians bringing some atention to this important question?

it's a bit weird to bring it up right away, while we have no idea if there was something suspect about the shooting. Let alone that it will be automatically investigated anyway.
The question also sounds a bit accusatory to me with all the exaggerated questions marks. The tone is basically "why did that happen????"

 

[His Majesty]

Imagine a French politician tweeting right after the Nice attacks: "did the police really have to kill the perpetrator?"

Completely insensitive towards the victims, the police system and the officer involved.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Incidents such as this one are why the right wing is gaining so much power in Europe.

I think is the other side denying there is a problem is whats doing that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Asking a question isn't "jumping to conclusions" in my book.

So whats wrong with a politicians bringing some atention to this important question?


Thats not something we need to remind ourself of. Thats obvious.

So that is obvious, but it is not obvious a police officer probably shot someone as a last resort? Because again, Germany doesn't have a problem with the police shooting too many people or grabbing their guns right away.

And it is wrong, because it changes the narrative. It is changing it from 'a terrorist was stopped from killing more people' to 'the police shot someone unnecessarily'. There is a reason the 'just asking questions' framing is frowned upon. Because the questions have certain implications behind it.

It also shows a politician - once again - being completely out of touch with what the people in the country find important at that moment.

 

[paperboywriter]

Imagine a French politician tweeting right after the Nice attacks: "did the police really have to kill the perpetrator?"

Completely insensitive towards the victims, the police system and the officer involved.

I totally agree with your sentiment, but I think what she meant is that its better to catch him alive and extract information than killing him on the street. Giving her the benefit of the doubt here.
Of course it's the police' call on the ground how to handle a dangerous situation and they did what they had to do.

 

[gamma]

I totally agree with your sentiment, but I think what she meant is that its better to catch him alive and extract information than killing him on the street. Giving her the benefit of the doubt here.
Of course it's the police' call on the ground how to handle a dangerous situation and they did what they had to do.

Yeah I'm sure that's what she meant. Give me a fucking break.

 

[EmilioLargo]

Imagine a French politician tweeting right after the Nice attacks: "did the police really have to kill the perpetrator?"

Completely insensitive towards the victims, the police system and the officer involved.

This. Inappropriate behaviour. There is an adage "Making the offender the victim" and it is applicable here. This is NOT the time for her to question the officers in charge. This is a populist attempt to gain attention.

EDIT:

And it is wrong, because it changes the narrative. It is changing it from 'a terrorist was stopped from killing more people' to 'the police shot someone unnecessarily'. There is a reason the 'just asking questions' framing is frowned upon. Because the questions have certain implications behind it..

Also this.

 

[murgo]

Man, shit like this happening right at our doorstep scares the crap out of me. I live in Würzburg about 6km from where this happened. I went jogging last night at 9pm, heard a lot of sirens at about 9:15 and immediately thought something was wrong.. and after checking the news back at home I was shocked.

Fuck.. I hope everyone who got injured will get well soon.

 

[Joni]

I hope some media will throw that ISIS video in Künast' face when confronting her about that statement.

 

[wheeplash]

Where is the title change? This was an ISIS terrorist attack 100%.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Apparently the guy wanted 'revenge' for the death of his friend in Afghanistan, who had been killed in the weekend there. Can't find info on how he is supposed to have died.

Investigators found several notes in the teen's home, including one passage that read "pray for me that I can take revenge on these infidels and pray for me that I will go to heaven." A hand-painted ISIS flag was also found during the search.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...uled-ax-rampage-friend-died-article-1.2717104