Honestly, and I'm probably in the minority with this, the Android/Cell saga turning into a Gohan story at the very end always bugged the shit out of me, mostly because Gohan spends almost the entire arc as a background character. And by the Cell saga I was sick of Gohan being a deus ex machina. The one thing I appreciate with the Buu Saga was how Gohan took a few steps backwards after Cell. Considering Gohan was never had the fighter mentality of Goku, Vegeta, or Piccolo and was more or less drafted into fighting it made sense that his priorities would shift in a time of peace. Plus Buu Saga Gohan is the only Gohan who actually develops a personality.
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50 Episodes Later, Is Dragon Ball Super a better sequel than GT?
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Honestly, and I'm probably in the minority with this, the Android/Cell saga turning into a Gohan story at the very end always bugged the shit out of me, mostly because Gohan spends almost the entire arc as a background character. And by the Cell saga I was sick of Gohan being a deus ex machina. The one thing I appreciate with the Buu Saga was how Gohan took a few steps backwards after Cell. Considering Gohan was never had the fighter mentality of Goku, Vegeta, or Piccolo and was more or less drafted into fighting it made sense that his priorities would shift in a time of peace. Plus Buu Saga Gohan is the only Gohan who actually develops a personality.
Goku has never been a hero. The early funi dub really tried to turn him into superman, and even toei has at times mis categorized him as a heroic type.
He's just an idiot who loves to fight. If anything, he's worse than Vegeta - Goku doesn't really grasp the concept of family the way everyone else does. To him, they're all friends he cares about. Vegeta, on the other hand, has a particular attachment to his wife and kid, and cherishes their safety above everything else. You know, like you're supposed to.
MrSaturn99
Member
True, but wish shenanigans aside, it's the age difference that gets me.
Weirdly enough, I'm looking forward to both.
Don't forget how he abandoned his family and friends at the end of Z to train a little boy to be his successor.
WrenchNinja
Member
What episode can you start watching Super if you only saw the movies?
I also saw the first episode and Vegeta's family vacation but ignore that
I also saw the first episode and Vegeta's family vacation but ignore that
Icyflamez96
Member
They're both adults who cares.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Episode 28, that's when the first original arc starts.
What you call "damage" I call an improvement.
Also, Toriyama just wanted to finish Dragon Ball as soon as possible when it hit Z. He wanted it over with right after Frieza initially, but he was denied. The whole "Gohan being built up to be Goku's successor" is hogwash. The end of the Cell Saga just became the next ray of hope for Toriyama to finish the series is all.
Another thing:
Goku didn't bother training for Cell. The other fighters (even Tien and Piccolo) all used the Time chamber as much as they could, because everything was at stake.
Goku knew that in their current states, he and Gohan were no match. And yet.... he did nothing.
He really, really doesn't have a grasp on the severity of matters. Vegeta is just overconfident.
Goku didn't bother training for Cell. The other fighters (even Tien and Piccolo) all used the Time chamber as much as they could, because everything was at stake.
Goku knew that in their current states, he and Gohan were no match. And yet.... he did nothing.
He really, really doesn't have a grasp on the severity of matters. Vegeta is just overconfident.
Astral Dog
Member
More or Less, eh, i really think they are different and both have their flaws, Super story has also recently started for like 20 episodes
GT has magnificient soundtrack and more fantastical setting with the search of the dragon balls, Super so far has much more attention to detail (specially continuity and character interactions ) soundtrack is so so but its getting better, some battles are good but others mediocre, many jokes are tired, animation varies but when its ugly its UGLY.
I cant say much but im glad we are getting Super even with its flaws.
GT has magnificient soundtrack and more fantastical setting with the search of the dragon balls, Super so far has much more attention to detail (specially continuity and character interactions ) soundtrack is so so but its getting better, some battles are good but others mediocre, many jokes are tired, animation varies but when its ugly its UGLY.
I cant say much but im glad we are getting Super even with its flaws.
Astral Dog
Member
It cost alot of time for him to get there though
LordOfChaos
Member
Or are they just holding it to the standards of a 2016 anime. Look at One Punch Man that was produced by a far smaller, lower budget team than Super. That looks fantastic nearly always (the poorly drawn parts are deliberate homages to the webcomic). Super just seems like it cheaps out a lot.
I'm like 95% certain this is "Myth Busted" these days
UnemployedVillain
Member
I don't believe this. In every previous arc Gohan was implied to have hidden power. In Namek it was a big thing as well. You're going to need some proof it was hogwash
Kaji AF16
Member
I always preferred Dragon Ball´s "darkest" sagas (lets say, from Goku´s first fight vs. Ten-shin-han to the conclusion of the Cell Games). Majin Buu saga and GT had some nice ideas (SSJ3, SJJ4, fusions, the enemies coming from the corrupted dragon balls...) but I didn´t like their overall lighter, back-to-humor tone.
I haven´t yet seen every episode of Super, but -besides being much older than in DB´s heyday- I am not convinced. Not enough compelling menaces yet. Very little impact in each new transformation (SSJ God, SSJ Blue whatever). Toriyama stated in the past that one of the main reasons for finishing Dragon Ball was the extreme levels of power that the main characters had achieved: by the end of Buu´s saga, a common attack could destroy a planet. Now that perspective is obsolete with this inter-universal tournaments, which I find much less dramatic than previous arcs.
I haven´t yet seen every episode of Super, but -besides being much older than in DB´s heyday- I am not convinced. Not enough compelling menaces yet. Very little impact in each new transformation (SSJ God, SSJ Blue whatever). Toriyama stated in the past that one of the main reasons for finishing Dragon Ball was the extreme levels of power that the main characters had achieved: by the end of Buu´s saga, a common attack could destroy a planet. Now that perspective is obsolete with this inter-universal tournaments, which I find much less dramatic than previous arcs.
I agree 100%.
Oh wow and I just precisely stopped watching Super right at the end of the golden Frieza saga because I got bored to hell since I already watched the two movies and because I'm simply not a fan of Japanese dubs (Latin America Dragon Ball dub FTW!!) and reading most of the posts in this thread it seems I stopped watching exactly when the good stuff begins. Will have to watch them now because Future Trunks is one of my fave characters of DB so knowing he is back on Super is just freaking exciting!
1st Course
Member
Golden Freiza arc was so pointless. Like what was even the point.
Trueee. Such an accurate description of Goku. He simply didn't care about his family. He prefered to stay in the other world just to train and fight than being resurected to go back with his family at the end of the Cell arc and how we could forget how he simply goes away with Ub at the end of DBZ just because. He didn't even cared about baby Pan and the intense connection there was between the two. Perhaps even more than Gohan's, and despite all of that he just goes away. Such an asshole in a certain way. But such a likeable asshole anyways.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Toys.
Fanservice and Merchandise
DiipuSurotu
Banned
ArchedThunder
Banned
Episodes 1 and 2 provide a look at the characters lives after Buu while also introducing the antagonist of the film "Battle of Gods" in a more menacing light. Episodes 15-18 bridge the gap between the two movies. The action in the arcs is different from the movies though, If you plan on watching the movies instead but don't want to miss any of the good action I have a couple albums posted in the Super OT that have GIFs of all the notable action from the BoG and F arcs of the show.
Just_myles
Member
As of now, a big yes. However, for what it's worth, I will add that the promise of GT is better than Super. It was return to dragonball of old with a bit of a twist.
*does research*
Oh, you're right, but
it's still hogwash for other reasons. He has never stated he intended to finish with the Cell sagas, like he apparently never said so for the Frieza sagas, but he did actually not originally plan for Cell (the character) at all with 100% certainty since he wasn't even a villain concept when he continued the story after Frieza.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Nope, no announcement either, though Sean Schemmel (the English voice of Goku) said that he's pretty sure it'll start this year.
Prototype Viktor
Member
No DBS is so dumb with it's power forms
Jigolo
Member
Finally. I'm glad he's back. They can change most other characters VA but Goku is Goku. Looking forward to watching next year
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Okay, wait what? I'm behind on Super. Does Buu still happen in the future timeline?
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I agree with this pretty much entirely. GT was a fun adventure again, and it pretty much kept the Dragon Balls at the center of the action. The power reduction at first was nice too, and then SS4 is a much better designed form than just blue-hair instead of gold. It brings the monkey stuff back too.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
No trunks got help from kaioshin and turned super Saiyan 2 and killed dabura and babadi before buu happens.
UnemployedVillain
Member
That still doesn't dispel the idea of Gohan being hyped up. If anything it shows Toriyama just forgot, which he has admitted to doing with earlier plot points
Astral Dog
Member
Come on, dont be melodramatic, there are many people that dislike or at least critizise Super even in comparison to GT.Ok, this thread will obviously become a pretty big echo chamber, so I'll go against the current and say no. Who are we kidding? All the responses in this thread will say "YES, ABSOLUTELY", so I might as well be the only one to difer.
Yeah... As I said, I will be the only one in the thread to have this opinion, but hell, better to state it and having a different point of view than to having a 100% echo chamber here.
.
unless this was sarcastic
I like Super a LOT better than GT, and I enjoy GT for what it was. Super has that distinct Toriyama feel to it and you can tell he's writing the story in a way only he can. The only questionable arc for me is the Ressurection F stuff, but I genuinely think both Battle of Gods arc and the Universe 6 arc made for some GREAT television. I'd even argue that Battle of Gods (both movie and show) is better than Boo arc.
Come on, dont be melodramatic, there are many people that dislike or at least critizise Super even in comparison to GT.
unless this was sarcastic
Well, the opinions are still pretty one sided. :v
Wait, I thought Toriyama only describes the basic outline for each arc and other people actually write them?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
This thread actually went alot better than I thought alot of gt fans in here. Nice to be able to talk about it without the mass of hyperbole
Ive caught up with super now and honestly the both just feel like fan fiction.
But the thing is that isnt a bad thing, theres some really great fanfiction out there, it just skews so much from the original with one having black dragon balls, Kid Goku and SSJ4 (which i loved by the way) and the other having SSJG and super saiyan blue and the whole universes, king of everything and all of that.
My big thing at this point is that i realize that dragon ball is just a fun world to be back in and even when the stories feel outlandish and too big for the original scope, i still enjoy it.
But the thing is that isnt a bad thing, theres some really great fanfiction out there, it just skews so much from the original with one having black dragon balls, Kid Goku and SSJ4 (which i loved by the way) and the other having SSJG and super saiyan blue and the whole universes, king of everything and all of that.
My big thing at this point is that i realize that dragon ball is just a fun world to be back in and even when the stories feel outlandish and too big for the original scope, i still enjoy it.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I love Super, and like it more than GT, but this is a good point. A lot of stuff in Super has an artificial sheen to it.
The galactic scale of the series is the only direction it could have gone, but the power creep in Dragon Ball (which is so infamously bad that it inspired other mangaka to directly combat it - See: One Piece) went off the charts so long ago that any continuation of the story will feel a bit contrived.
AlimNassor
Banned
DBGT sucked. Super had it's flaws but, is overall the best. Besides, Super has Beerus and Whis the two best characters Toriyama has ever introduced to the series. Return of Freeza arc was pure shit and worse then anything in GT.
jack_package_200
Banned
Super Saiyan Bulma?
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
28
RoF in the movie at least had great animation and fight scenes. In Super it might be the worst Dragon Ball related story arc of all time
Rapscallion
Member
They're opposite ends as to what I would expect to a follow up of Z.
GT seems more like a natural sequel in that it has a similar arc style. Unfortunately the show suffers from having some lack luster plots that fail to catch the same spark that made DBZ work. Some arcs are better than others, but as a whole it's a pretty lackluster show.
Super is different. It's significantly more light hearted than DBZ or GT, and the show moves a lot quicker than its predecessors. Had I been a child when Super came out I probably would have been angry that it isn't as serious or extreme as DBZ, but as an adult I find it incredibly fun. So far the arcs have been really fun and I honestly didn't expect the outcome of any of the new stuff (BOG and ROF included). There's some inconsistencies that are annoying and some characters have been turned into nothing by filler, but despite its flaws it shows promise.
GT seems more like a natural sequel in that it has a similar arc style. Unfortunately the show suffers from having some lack luster plots that fail to catch the same spark that made DBZ work. Some arcs are better than others, but as a whole it's a pretty lackluster show.
Super is different. It's significantly more light hearted than DBZ or GT, and the show moves a lot quicker than its predecessors. Had I been a child when Super came out I probably would have been angry that it isn't as serious or extreme as DBZ, but as an adult I find it incredibly fun. So far the arcs have been really fun and I honestly didn't expect the outcome of any of the new stuff (BOG and ROF included). There's some inconsistencies that are annoying and some characters have been turned into nothing by filler, but despite its flaws it shows promise.
DBZ isn't as "serious or extreme" as you thought it was when you were a child. It's about aliens named after vegetables punching aliens named after fruits and appliances, teenage Terminators, and a demon named after that Cinderella song.
Hmm so far I only read episode events and have seen the two movies, so I won't try to say Super is worse.
However I hate what they've done to things like SSj3 and the future Trunks garbage as I never found him interesting.
Plus I liked that GT removed Vegeta from a lead role aND used him him sparingly but we'll. Plus nothing in Super that I've seen or read has had a moment like
or a form I like such as SSJ4.
However I hate what they've done to things like SSj3 and the future Trunks garbage as I never found him interesting.
Plus I liked that GT removed Vegeta from a lead role aND used him him sparingly but we'll. Plus nothing in Super that I've seen or read has had a moment like
Piccolo and Gohan's final good bye
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